Why The Trinity is Wrong: Pronouns
- Thread starter Wrangler
- Start date
e v e
Well-known member
The mentions of kosmou God makes have to do with the cities of the demon nations, and how they drove us from our land, tortured us, imprisoned us, -- into this fallen reality. God's paradise does not conform to this current physics. Christ says he is not from here. His desire is to get us out of here.
e v e
Well-known member
this current earth:
everything dies
gets sick, diseases
can be hurt by a hostile 'nature'
needs shelter from nature
cannibalizes itself, decomposition
pain in childbirth
the body sweats and other ugly bodily functions
ages
work required to stay alive
sin and oppression
an unloving solar system
revolves and evolves
land as dependent on sun
earth as a globe, deformed by
platonic (evil realm) solids
eden paradise in the other reality:
no death for Christ is Life
no sickness or disease
His Nature is love
No inclement nature
no decomposition
no pain, our souls stepped right out of God
no ugly bodily functions
no aging as we know it
no labor
no sin or oppression
binary system as in enoch
no need for evolving - creation is perfect
land as core, no circling a sun
the land as hebrew cube as described in rev and enoch
everything dies
gets sick, diseases
can be hurt by a hostile 'nature'
needs shelter from nature
cannibalizes itself, decomposition
pain in childbirth
the body sweats and other ugly bodily functions
ages
work required to stay alive
sin and oppression
an unloving solar system
revolves and evolves
land as dependent on sun
earth as a globe, deformed by
platonic (evil realm) solids
eden paradise in the other reality:
no death for Christ is Life
no sickness or disease
His Nature is love
No inclement nature
no decomposition
no pain, our souls stepped right out of God
no ugly bodily functions
no aging as we know it
no labor
no sin or oppression
binary system as in enoch
no need for evolving - creation is perfect
land as core, no circling a sun
the land as hebrew cube as described in rev and enoch
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e v e
Well-known member
God specifically warned adam of
the pain in childbirth, death, sweat etc.
Science has no idea of eden and would never
begin to understand it. His type of nature in paradise refreshes at a very high rate with
no entropy such as in this current substandard
universe where adam imprisons us
and everything dies.
This earth of approx up to 12k years
(as recorded civilization began)
since noah landed here on this planet
and where much was towed from the other reality
will be desolated
and no one will remember it.
the pain in childbirth, death, sweat etc.
Science has no idea of eden and would never
begin to understand it. His type of nature in paradise refreshes at a very high rate with
no entropy such as in this current substandard
universe where adam imprisons us
and everything dies.
This earth of approx up to 12k years
(as recorded civilization began)
since noah landed here on this planet
and where much was towed from the other reality
will be desolated
and no one will remember it.
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Diserner
Well-known member
Wrangler
Well-known member
Typical. Sweep aside what I wrote and put forth your own way of thinking. Not very intellectually honest.
God is most definitely triune, three persons with one common nature. It is God's nature that is one. As a matter of fact, the Greek word for “God” (θεω) has an energy word structure (an “ω” at the end of the word) as do other Greek energy verbs such as “run” (τρέχω), “see” (διαβλέπω), or “burn” (κατακαίω). This has to do with word morphologies which @Johann might be interested in. The word Greek word “God” itself is an energy word, signifying how we relate to God, through his Divine Energies. The Greek NT is chalk full of the Greek word energia (energy) and its derivatives. I can list out all those verses if one is interested.
So why the transformation between God's name of "Eli" or "I AM" denoting existence to God's name of "θεω" denoting his nature that he imparts? Pentecost. The Old Testament (Joel 2:28) prophesied that God would pour out his spirit and He did that at Pentecost (Acts 2:16-47). It is His Divine Nature that He imparts to man.
Wrangler
Well-known member
This is a rationalization and not his name.
"I Am" is the name that God gave to Moses when he asked God for His name (Exodus 3:13-14). Anyways, you offered no counterargument against my Trinity proof.
Johann
Well-known member
Ehyeh aSher ehyeh and Nissi.
"I who speak to you am He" This may be an allusion to Isa. 52:6. It is a plain, open affirmation of His Deity (so different from the Synoptic Gospels)! It is a play on "I Am," which reflected the OT Covenant name for God, YHWH (cf. Exod.3:12, 14). Jesus used this OT name for God as a way of referring to YHWH's self-revelation visibly and clearly in Himself (cf. John 8:24, 28, 58; 13:19; 18:5 compare Isa. 41:4; 43:10; 46:4). This specialized use of "I Am" must be differentiated from the well known "I Am" statements of John, 6:35, 51; 8:12; 10:7, 9, 11, 14; 11:25; 14:6; 15:1, 5, which are followed by qualifying NOUNS.
Exo 17:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.
Exo 17:15 And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovahnissi:
Exo 17:16 For he said, Because the LORD hath sworn that the LORD will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.
יְהוָ֥ה׀ Nissi
and he called the name of it Jehovah nissi; which signifies either "the Lord is my miracle" who wrought a miracle for them in giving them the victory over Amalek, as well as, through smiting the rock with the rod, brought out water from thence for the refreshment of the people, their children and cattle; or "the Lord is my banner": alluding to the hands of Moses being lifted up with the rod therein, as a banner displayed, under which Joshua and Israel fought, and got the victory.
This may fitly be applied to Christ, who is both altar, sacrifice, and priest, and who is the true Jehovah, and after so called; and who is lifted up as a banner, standard, or ensign in the everlasting Gospel, in order to gather souls unto him, and enlist them under him, and to prepare them for war, and encourage them in it against their spiritual enemies; and as a token of their victory over them, and a direction to them where they shall stand, when to march, and whom they shall follow; and to distinguish them from all other bands and companies, and for the protection of them from all their enemies, see Isa_11:10.
SPECIAL TOPIC: THE NAMES FOR DEITY
Names for Deity -- Special Topic by Dr. Bob Utley, professor of hermeneutics (retired).
www.freebiblecommentary.org
If you are interested brother.
J.
charismaticlady
Active member
It was in direct response to your statement of: "We know this is what trintiarians claim but is not found anywhere in Scripture. Only the father is uniquely identied as God." Wrangler, I am not ignorant of SCRIPTURE.
Scripture which you stated, and the father being God is NOT SWEEPING ASIDE ANYTHING. But is in direct response. So answer the question if you dare!
WHO IS OUR GOD AND SAVIOR?
HINT:
Titus 2:11-14
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
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Wrangler
Well-known member
Sure it does. Only the Father is God. This is stated over and over and over again in Scripture.
YHWH is our God And our savior through his servant Jesus.
charismaticlady
Active member
Titus 2:11-14
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
They are one. Colossians 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
Where you are wrong is not believing that Jesus is God. Jesus is just as much a part of GOD as the Father. They and the Holy Spirit are inseparable.
civic
Well-known member
That’s not what the text says
Wrangler
Well-known member
Do you suppose this is referring to one Being or 2?
I take it as 2.
Regarding agency, did you read the post asking who rescued you from the water, the Captain or the Ensign?
Titus at 2:11-14 refers to the same 2 Beings he did at 1:1, 4:
Paul, a servant[a] of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God's elect
To Titus, my true child in a common faith:
Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
Johann
Well-known member
Granville Sharp's rule
Granville Sharp's Rule is a grammatical principle applied to the translation of New Testament Greek whereby the deity of Christ is explicitly affirmed. This is specifically associated with the translation of Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1.
Titus 2:13:
KJV -- "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ."
Similarly in the 1901 ASV, RSV, and also in the New World Translation of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
NASB -- "Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus." The same sense is also seen in NIV and ESV.
In the above translations, the first implies a reference to two persons, while the second (applying the Granville Sharp rule) sees the reference to one person who is both God and savior. The same contrast may be seen in 2 Peter 1:1:
KJV -- "to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ."
NASB -- "To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ."
Statement of the rule
"The following rule by Granville Sharp of a century back still proves to be true: `When the copulative KAI connects two nouns of the same case, if the article HO or any of its cases precedes the first of the said nouns or participles, and is not repeated before the second noun or participle, the latter always relates to the same person that is expressed or described by the first noun or participle; i.e., it denotes a further description of the first-named person.'" (A Manual Of The Greek New Testament, Dana & Mantey, p. 147)
"Basically, Granville Sharp's rule states that when you have two nouns, which are not proper names (such as Cephas, or Paul, or Timothy), which are describing a person, and the two nouns are connected by the word 'and,' and the first noun has the article ('the') while the second does not, both nouns are referring to the same person." - James White
The basic formula (in the Greek word order) may be seen in this manner:
Article (ho) + noun1 + and (kai) + noun2
Granville Sharp's rule says that since the definite article (ho, or its variant) precedes only the first noun and not both, then the reference is to one person -- this being the case in the verses quoted above.
Cautions in application
Detractors maintain that there are numerous examples in the Greek where Granville Sharp's rule fails to hold up, i.e. where two distinct referents are obviously intended. However, as pointed out by Daniel Wallace, this is due to a misapplication of the rule.^ [1]^ What is often overlooked is that Granville Sharp distinctly noted that the rule applies when the two nouns are singular and apply to persons, not things. When these restrictions are considered, there are no exceptions to be noted in native Koine Greek constructions.
Wallace has restated Granville Sharp's rule in order to explicitly state all the restrictions and to enhance the readability of the rule.
In native Greek constructions (i.e., not translation Greek), when a single article modifies two substantives connected by kai (thus, article-substantive- kai-substantive), when both substantives are (1) singular (both grammatically and semantically), (2) personal, (3) and common nouns (not proper names or ordinals), they have the same referent.
Notes
? Daniel B. Wallace, Sharp Redivivus? A Reexamination of the Granville Sharp Rule
? Daniel B. Wallace, The Article with Multiple Substantives Connected by kai in the New Testament: Semantics and Significance (Ph.D. diss., Dallas Theological Seminary), 134-35.
Titus 2:13 Commentary | Precept Austin
You will go through great lengths to debunk the Deity of Christ Jesus-making your appeal to Islamic sources-but hey-this is "permissible" this is your "opinion" and this gives you the right to "wrangle" the Holy Writ.
No need to reply.
J.
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