The Trinity and the Incarnation

[Rory Wilson]

I see a paradox in modern day Christianity in regard respectively to God and Christ. The first is the doctrine of the Trinity that the one God comprises three Persons. The second is the doctrine that in Christ are comprised two Natures, that of God and that of Man, in one Person.

How does one get around the fact that no one succeeds in stating the doctrine which they can explicitly defend without implicitly dissolving some essential element of the Trinity. He who maintains the Trinity either dissolves the three members and robs them of all significance, or else so elaborates the distinctions between them as to dissolve the unity of God into sheer fiction. I believe this is the bottom line for the controversy over the doctrine of the trinity.

He who, again, maintains the dual nature of Christ does one or other of these three things: he either makes the manhood of Jesus a mere appearance, or reduces the deity of Christ to no godhood at all, or else breaks up the personality into two persons without any real personal unity.

I believe that it's necessary to think of the Son as eternally associated with the Father, if we are to believe that love is the nature of God; because love in its essence is social, and God’s love could not otherwise find an object prior to the existence of created things. If you've been on Christian's forums for a while I'm sure you've heard this before.

Who, then, was God loving before he created everything? That's where the fellowship of the trinity comes in,

Before the universe existed, there was only God—but He was not alone. Since God is a Trinity—the Persons of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all share in the same divine nature, and they are one God. This aspect of God’s nature was not fully revealed in the Old Testament, but there are some intriguing hints of plurality in the Godhead in the Old Testament. For instance, while contemplating the incomprehensibility of God.

Who has ascended to heaven and come down?
Who has gathered the wind in his fists?
Who has wrapped up the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and what is his son’s name?
Surely you know!
Proverbs 30:4

 

[Ahar]

I see a paradox in modern day Christianity in regard respectively to God and Christ. The first is the doctrine of the Trinity that the one God comprises three Persons. The second is the doctrine that in Christ are comprised two Natures, that of God and that of Man, in one Person.

How does one get around the fact that no one succeeds in stating the doctrine which they can explicitly defend without implicitly dissolving some essential element of the Trinity. He who maintains the Trinity either dissolves the three members and robs them of all significance, or else so elaborates the distinctions between them as to dissolve the unity of God into sheer fiction. I believe this is the bottom line for the controversy over the doctrine of the trinity.

He who, again, maintains the dual nature of Christ does one or other of these three things: he either makes the manhood of Jesus a mere appearance, or reduces the deity of Christ to no godhood at all, or else breaks up the personality into two persons without any real personal unity.

I believe that it's necessary to think of the Son as eternally associated with the Father, if we are to believe that love is the nature of God; because love in its essence is social, and God’s love could not otherwise find an object prior to the existence of created things. If you've been on Christian's forums for a while I'm sure you've heard this before.

Who, then, was God loving before he created everything? That's where the fellowship of the trinity comes in,

Before the universe existed, there was only God—but He was not alone. Since God is a Trinity—the Persons of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all share in the same divine nature, and they are one God. This aspect of God’s nature was not fully revealed in the Old Testament, but there are some intriguing hints of plurality in the Godhead in the Old Testament. For instance, while contemplating the incomprehensibility of God.

Who has ascended to heaven and come down?
Who has gathered the wind in his fists?
Who has wrapped up the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and what is his son’s name?
Surely you know!
Proverbs 30:4

Homoousios​

Homoousios = The same essence (e.g., A divine person shares the numerically identical essence; consubstantial)

Homoousios is probably the most famous trinitarian technical term coming out of the doctrinal debates in the early church. Whatever is homoousios is of the same essence or substance as something else. In our case, the Father, Son, and Spirit are all of the same substance or essence. They all have the attributes necessary to count as God in the fullest sense.

 

[synergy]

I see a paradox in modern day Christianity in regard respectively to God and Christ. The first is the doctrine of the Trinity that the one God comprises three Persons. The second is the doctrine that in Christ are comprised two Natures, that of God and that of Man, in one Person.

How does one get around the fact that no one succeeds in stating the doctrine which they can explicitly defend without implicitly dissolving some essential element of the Trinity. He who maintains the Trinity either dissolves the three members and robs them of all significance, or else so elaborates the distinctions between them as to dissolve the unity of God into sheer fiction. I believe this is the bottom line for the controversy over the doctrine of the trinity.

He who, again, maintains the dual nature of Christ does one or other of these three things: he either makes the manhood of Jesus a mere appearance, or reduces the deity of Christ to no godhood at all, or else breaks up the personality into two persons without any real personal unity.

I believe that it's necessary to think of the Son as eternally associated with the Father, if we are to believe that love is the nature of God; because love in its essence is social, and God’s love could not otherwise find an object prior to the existence of created things. If you've been on Christian's forums for a while I'm sure you've heard this before.

Who, then, was God loving before he created everything? That's where the fellowship of the trinity comes in,

Before the universe existed, there was only God—but He was not alone. Since God is a Trinity—the Persons of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all share in the same divine nature, and they are one God. This aspect of God’s nature was not fully revealed in the Old Testament, but there are some intriguing hints of plurality in the Godhead in the Old Testament. For instance, while contemplating the incomprehensibility of God.

Who has ascended to heaven and come down?
Who has gathered the wind in his fists?
Who has wrapped up the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and what is his son’s name?
Surely you know!
Proverbs 30:4

God is one in essence (nature) and three in persons. One God, Three Persons. Elementary, my dear Watson.

 

[Bubba]

God is one in essence (nature) and three in persons. One God, Three Persons. Elementary, my dear Watson.

If God is three Persons, does this mean that each Person is “one-third” of God? Does the Trinity mean that God is divided into three parts? Does each one of the three have a unique function? Do they each have a distinct center of consciousness?

 

[synergy]

If God is three Persons, does this mean that each Person is “one-third” of God? Does the Trinity mean that God is divided into three parts? Does each one of the three have a unique function? Do they each have a distinct center of consciousness?

One God, Three Whole Conscious Persons.

 

[Aeliana]

If God is three Persons, does this mean that each Person is “one-third” of God? Does the Trinity mean that God is divided into three parts? Does each one of the three have a unique function? Do they each have a distinct center of consciousness?

“God is spirit” (John 4:24).

I personally would not think of God as “consisting of ” anything other than divinity. The “substance” of God is God, not a bunch of “ingredients” that taken together yield deity.

 

[Bubba]

“God is spirit” (John 4:24).

I personally would not think of God as “consisting of ” anything other than divinity. The “substance” of God is God, not a bunch of “ingredients” that taken together yield deity.

I think you just hit a grand slam

 

[Ahar]

I think you just hit a grand slam

Great analogy .Bases loaded with Deity and the believer hits a home run. And it clearly shows the hypostases of the Trinity are distinct.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

If God is three Persons, does this mean that each Person is “one-third” of God? Does the Trinity mean that God is divided into three parts? Does each one of the three have a unique function? Do they each have a distinct center of consciousness?

And if a hen and a half, can lay an egg and a half, in a day and a half, how long would it take a bow-legged cockroach to shingle a roof???

 

[Ahar]

And if a hen and a half, can lay an egg and a half, in a day and a half, how long would it take a bow-legged cockroach to shingle a roof???

That would depend on several factors. First of all how does Mr cockroach get on the roof being handicapped. Then How many square foot is the roof? And last but not least Is he part of a crew and does he have modern tools? Like an air staple gun.

And that's not even counting getting the materials on the roof. Are we talking forklift?

The only thing I know about chickens is how to cook them. Same with eggs.

 

[Administrator]

I hope you two realize That Bowlegged Cockroaches performing home construction is off topic.

 

[Bubba]

Does each one of the three Members of the Trinity have a unique function?

I think they do. Unique functions all lead to the same purpose.

I heard someone explain it this way. "The Father thinks it the Son speaks it and the Holy Spirit makes it happen."

I've heard it said that the Holy Spirit is often overlooked. I think he's very important myself. Otherwise why would Jesus leave us the Holy Spirit?

God the Holy Spirit functions as the life-giving agent of creation and new creation. The Spirit is the principal agent of biblical revelation, illumination, and persuasion. He also brings about the conviction, regeneration, and transformation of the hearts of sinners.

according to Christian theology, Jesus is often referred to as God’s spoken word. This concept is primarily derived from the Gospel of John, which begins with the statement:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1). The term “Word” here is translated from the Greek word “Logos,” which means “spoken word” or "statement"

In God’s plan of salvation, God Himself is the only one who can provide for our Salvation. So He sent Jesus.

 

[101G]

God is one in essence (nature) and three in persons. One God, Three Persons. Elementary, my dear Watson.

if God is one NATURE, which is Spirit. and three persons. 101G has One question, "How much of the ONE Spirit was G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v. meaning, 1. to make empty. for the one person the Son who came in flesh?". so, how much 1/3 for the one person, or all of the Spirit was G2758 κενόω kenoo, or what?

101G.

 

[101G]

“God is spirit” (John 4:24).

I personally would not think of God as “consisting of ” anything other than divinity. The “substance” of God is God, not a bunch of “ingredients” that taken together yield deity.

Correct. but we cannot deny the fact that the Son was G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v. 1. to make empty. this must have accountability, and explained.

101G.

 

[Aeliana]

Correct. but we cannot deny the fact that the Son was G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v. 1. to make empty. this must have accountability, and explained.

101G.

Can you explain that in a little more detail? I'd love to hear it. I found this online and it goes into great detail.

In What Sense Did Jesus Empty Himself? (Kenosis, Condescension of Christ)

In the second chapter of the letter to the Philippians the Apostle Paul made the following statement about Christ. Have this attitude in yourselves which was

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[civic]

Does each one of the three Members of the Trinity have a unique function?

I think they do. Unique functions all lead to the same purpose.

I heard someone explain it this way. "The Father thinks it the Son speaks it and the Holy Spirit makes it happen."

I've heard it said that the Holy Spirit is often overlooked. I think he's very important myself. Otherwise why would Jesus leave us the Holy Spirit?

God the Holy Spirit functions as the life-giving agent of creation and new creation. The Spirit is the principal agent of biblical revelation, illumination, and persuasion. He also brings about the conviction, regeneration, and transformation of the hearts of sinners.

according to Christian theology, Jesus is often referred to as God’s spoken word. This concept is primarily derived from the Gospel of John, which begins with the statement:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1). The term “Word” here is translated from the Greek word “Logos,” which means “spoken word” or "statement"

In God’s plan of salvation, God Himself is the only one who can provide for our Salvation. So He sent Jesus.

Personally I like each Person of the Trinity rather than member. . Member sounds like a club I can join

 

[101G]

Can you explain that in a little more detail? I'd love to hear it. I found this online and it goes into great detail.

In What Sense Did Jesus Empty Himself? (Kenosis, Condescension of Christ)

In the second chapter of the letter to the Philippians the Apostle Paul made the following statement about Christ. Have this attitude in yourselves which was

www.blueletterbible.org

thanks for the reply, that's a good read, but God coming in flesh had been a mystery, supportive scripture. Revelation 10:7 "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

the voices of this mystery has bee sounding. for example, the prophet Isaiah. Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you." this is how he accomplishes it. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

his OWN "ARM", meaning he himself in ECHAD, shared equally in Nature, as a Man....... meaning in flesh. and this is found in Isaiah chapter 53, and through-out the OT. God coming in flesh is clearly see in OT as well as NT.... in Ordinal designations as First and Last. and the keyword to understand this EQUAL SHARE of his OWNSELF/OWN ARM is the simple term "WITH"..... (smile). this term "WITH" reveals the Godhead.

101G.

 

[Bubba]

Personally I like each Person of the Trinity rather than member. . Member sounds like a club I can join

I understand what you're saying and have no problem with it. My line of thought as far as members go is more like members of the body. Arms legs. And we united as Christians are members of the body of Christ.

Just like our members each have a individual function they all work together to make that happen. I think the trinity is the same way. Father God is head, He has the thoughts of what he wants to accomplish. Jesus, God in the flesh transmits the thoughts do the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit accomplishes what the Father wants to happen.

The Holy Spirit living inside of us makes it possible for us to be obedient children of the father and to obey his commandments.

I'm not trying to start any new Doctrine I'm just thinking out loud.

Let me try to bring it home. Just like you going on the mission field to Ecuador. In my scenario God wants it to happen, Jesus puts the thoughts in your heart (Speaks it). And the Holy Spirit opens the doors and with your cooperation makes it happen.

 

[civic]

I understand what you're saying and have no problem with it. My line of thought as far as members go is more like members of the body. Arms legs. And we united as Christians are members of the body of Christ.

Just like our members each have a individual function they all work together to make that happen. I think the trinity is the same way. Father God is head, He has the thoughts of what he wants to accomplish. Jesus, God in the flesh transmits the thoughts do the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit accomplishes what the Father wants to happen.

The Holy Spirit living inside of us makes it possible for us to be obedient children of the father and to obey his commandments.

I'm not trying to start any new Doctrine I'm just thinking out loud.

Let me try to bring it home. Just like you going on the mission field to Ecuador. In my scenario God wants it to happen, Jesus puts the thoughts in your heart (Speaks it). And the Holy Spirit opens the doors and with your cooperation makes it happen.

Analogies are good up to a certain point but usually break down when it comes to God. Believers became members of the body at a point in time unlike the Trinity that has an always existed. That’s the only point I was trying to make and I like the body/ church analogy which is biblical

 

[Bubba]

Analogies are good up to a certain point but usually break down when it comes to God. Believers became members of the body at a point in time unlike the Trinity that has an always existed. That’s the only point I was trying to make and I like the body/ church analogy which is biblical

Yeah I think it's one of those iron sharpens iron deals. I think we're going to have a lot of questions answered when we get to heaven. Reminds me of that song "I can only imagine".