The Trinity and the Incarnation
- Thread starter Rory Wilson
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Donald
Member
I like this thread. I started reading it from the OP and there some really good posts in it.
From our childhood, we Catholics learn to pray the sign of the cross: “In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”
At Mass, the priest’s prayers frequently mention the Father, the Son, and the Spirit as well. The reason for this is that Catholics believe that God is not merely Unity (as all monotheists believe), but also Trinity. Three in One.
The story goes that St. Patrick used the shamrock to teach the Irish about the Trinity. That story may not be true, but the analogy is that just as there are three leaves on the shamrock, so there are three persons in God. This can be helpful in seeing that three things can also be one united thing. However, the Father, Son, and Spirit are not three parts of God.
The Bible tells us, “God is love” (1 John 4:8). As a Trinity, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit love one another completely and entirely. Love is truly the essence of God’s inner life. At times the Trinity may seem like a dull doctrine, but Jesus showed us this truth about who God is to reveal God’s inner life to us. God loves us and wants us to know him. God created us out of love, and we are created for love. We are created out of relationship for relationship. Faith in the Trinity, therefore, is not merely a doctrine but a dogma that shows us who God is and who we are as creatures made in his image.
From our childhood, we Catholics learn to pray the sign of the cross: “In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”
At Mass, the priest’s prayers frequently mention the Father, the Son, and the Spirit as well. The reason for this is that Catholics believe that God is not merely Unity (as all monotheists believe), but also Trinity. Three in One.
The story goes that St. Patrick used the shamrock to teach the Irish about the Trinity. That story may not be true, but the analogy is that just as there are three leaves on the shamrock, so there are three persons in God. This can be helpful in seeing that three things can also be one united thing. However, the Father, Son, and Spirit are not three parts of God.
The Bible tells us, “God is love” (1 John 4:8). As a Trinity, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit love one another completely and entirely. Love is truly the essence of God’s inner life. At times the Trinity may seem like a dull doctrine, but Jesus showed us this truth about who God is to reveal God’s inner life to us. God loves us and wants us to know him. God created us out of love, and we are created for love. We are created out of relationship for relationship. Faith in the Trinity, therefore, is not merely a doctrine but a dogma that shows us who God is and who we are as creatures made in his image.
The key I think is this is one Triune being, God. Not 3 seperate beings that are somehow 'God' in brackets.
One being expressing Himself in 3 ways.. at the same time.. not in modes.
Otherwise, I think, we can easily be accused of polytheism.
I always come back to the point with JWs and unitarians.. that when Jesus is doing this 'by the hand of the Father'.. when He is talking to the Father, when He is the Father's 'right hand' etc..
This isn't the kind of seperateness we usually think of. Jesus as an agent of the Father.. is equal in power, authority, etc.. It's not like the kind of agent where the agent is a separate entity.. but more like a bodily extension/form of the Father.
I don't like the classic trinity diagram with thick lines of separation. I think they are more like dotted lines.. with the interrelation between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit more fluid and combined.. than completely separate.
Anyway.. it goes beyond anyone's understanding when it's God we are talking about. Not that it is illogical.. but His scope is not finite.
Donald
Member
Sounds like you have a good understanding right now. And of course when we get to our real home we will understand completely.
Runningman
Well-known member
Cool. And the same Greek words about the true worshippers worship the Father are never written about Jesus. Maybe that's important?
Was the worship in John 9:38 true worship or false worship?
Runningman
Well-known member
The true worshippers worship the Father. What do you think?
MTMattie
Well-known member
Alright.
Now ... you say that the NWT is the only accurate translation
From above you say , "the only translators on Earth for years that had enough love and respect for Gods will( Matt 7:21) to put his name back where he wants it in over 7000 spots."
And
"The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (NWT) emerged in 1950 with the New Testament. It became a complete version in 1961, becoming a cornerstone for Jehovah’s Witnesses. Its main goal is to offer a clear, modern Bible translation. It focuses on theological accuracy, reflecting Jehovah’s Witnesses’ beliefs."
But you, or someone has said that ALL Translations are false for mistranslating original documents and you or they have said that there are no original documents left to translate....
So, what did your translators use?
Also... Since you have a complete bible as of 1961.... did YOU ever read an Old Testament comparison of the NWT along side
the portion of the dead sea scrolls that have been translated and declared by all to be the most accurate and factual?
I think that would be a fascinating study.
Say NWT, Dead Sea Scrolls, and some other translation other then the NIV because it has major problems... but say KJV (not my choice) and a Catholic one.
Next time try not dodging the question I asked.
MTMattie
Well-known member
Well, then, how would you explain Jesus, the Son ~ who had the Holy Spirit come sit on him after His baptism, and the Voice from heaven saying "This is my Son.........."
How does a Triune become 3 separate as is biblically recorded?
I guess you believe that YHWH, the Heavenly Father walked the earth as Jesus because you cannot comprehend Him being separate?
Dizerner
Well-known member
The Persons are not each other, that's the important part.
MTMattie
Well-known member
YHWH, the Heavenly Father.
MTMattie
Well-known member
IMO True.
If we take a closer look at John 9:38, it’s essential to consider the context surrounding this moment.
The journey of the blind man began when Jesus restored his sight, which serves as a physical and symbolic act.
The act of healing is not only a miracle; it also represents a new life, awakening, and the revelation of truth.
The moment the blind man declares, “Lord, I believe!” signifies a culmination of his experience and the understanding that Jesus is not just a healer but the Son of God.
Worship is a response to experiencing the divine, and thus, worshiping Jesus is the natural outcome of recognizing His authority and grace.
This no longer merely a transaction of physical healing but transforms into a relationship characterized by faith and devotion.
Very well said.
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