101G
Well-known member
you still don't understand. "WITH" indicated in the Godhead, the same one person equally shared.. now is the First and the Last two separate and distinct person? yes or NO.
your answer please,
101G
Understanding God Plurality as one Person
- Thread starter 101G
- Start date
your answer please,
101G
101G
Well-known member
is the First "WITH" the Last two persons? Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."
101G.
101G
Well-known member
and now this, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." CHECKMATE, the same one person. because "ALSO" means "in addition; too". case closed.
for the same with in John 1:1 certify the Word was God
101G.
Sorry no
"with" (pros -Gr) does not mean the same person
πρός prep. w, gen., dat., or acc. (s. the lit. s.v. ἀνά. beg.) (Hom.+; inscr., pap., LXX, En., Ep. Arist., Philo, Joseph., Test. 12 Patr.).
I. w. the gen. to the advantage of, advantageous for (Thu. 3, 59, 1 οὐ πρὸς τῆς ὑμετέρας δόξης τάδε; Hdt. 1, 75; Dionys. Hal. 10, 30, 5; Diod. S. 18, 50, 5; Lucian, Dial. Deor. 20, 3; Bl-D. §240; Rob. 623f) οἱ πρ. ζωῆς μαζοί the life-giving breasts 1 Cl 20:10. πρ. τῆς σωτηρίας necessary for safety Ac 27:34 (πρὸς τῆς ς. as Jos., Ant. 16, 313).*
II. w. the dat.—1. of place near, at, by (Hom.+; LXX; Jos., Ant 8, 349; 381) Mk 5:11; around Rv 1:13. πρ. τῇ θύρᾳ ἑστηκέναι stand at the door (Menand., fgm. 420, 1; 830 K.) J 18:16; cf. 20:11. ἐγγίζοντος αὐτοῦ πρ. τῇ καταβάσει τοῦ ὄρους when he came close to the slope of the mountain Lk 19:37 (s. κατάβασις). πρ. τῇ κεφαλῇ, τοῖς ποσίν at the head, at the feet J 20:12. τὰ πρ. ταῖς ῥίζαις the parts near the roots Hs 9, 1, 6; 9, 21, 1. In geographical designations Μαγνησία ἡ πρ. Μαιάνδρῳ Magnesia on the Maeander IMg inscr.
2. in addition to (Hom.+; Polyb., inscr.) πρὸς τούτοις (Dit., Syll.3 495, 105; 685, 70; 100; 796B, 30; 888, 35 al.; UPZ 26, 18; 25 [163BC]; 2 Macc 4:9; 5:23; 9:17, 25; 14:4, esp. 12:2; Philo, Aet. M. 67 al.) 1 Cl 17:1.*
III. w. the acc.—1. of place toward (s), to w. acc. of the place, the pers., or the thing, after verbs—
a. of going; cf. ἄγω 5, ἀναβαίνω 1aα, ἀνακάμπτω 1a, ἀπέρχομαι 2, διαβαίνω, διαπεράω, εἴσειμι, εἰσέρχομαι 1c, ἐκπορεύομαι 1c, ἐπισυνάγομαι Mk 1:33, ἔρχομαι I 1aβ, ἥκω 1b et al.—προσαγωγὴ πρὸς τὸν πατέρα Eph 2:18. εἴσοδος 1 Th 1:9a.
b. verbs of sending; cf. ἀναπέμπω Lk 23:7, 15; Ac 25:21, ἀποστέλλω 1bα, πέμπω.
c. of motion gener.; cf. βληθῆναι (βάλλω 1b), ἐπιστρέφω 1bα, β, 2b, κεῖμαι 1, πίπτω 1bα א and ב, προσκολλάω 1, προσκόπτω 1a, προσπίπτω.
d. of leading, guiding; cf. ἄγω 1a, ἀπάγω 2a and 4, ἕλκω J 12:32, κατασύρω, etc.
e. of saying, speaking; cf. ἀποκρίνομαι 1, δημηγορέω Ac 12:21, εἶπον 1, λαλέω 2aδ and 2b, λέγω I 1a, 3 et al. Hebraistically λαλεῖν στόμα πρὸς στόμα speak face to face (Jer 39:4) 2J 12b; 3J 14 (cf. PGM 1, 39 τὸ στόμα πρὸς τὸ στόμα πρὸς ἀλλήλους to one another, with each other, among themselves: s. ἀντιβάλλω, διαλαλέω, διαλέγομαι Mk 9:34, διαλογίζομαι 8:16; Lk 20:14, εἶπον 24:32; J 16:17; 19:24, λαλέω, λέγω et al. πρὸς ἑαυτούς to themselves, to each other: s. διαλογίζομαι 1, εἶπον Mk 12:7; J 7:35, λέγω (Ps.-Callisth. 2, 15, 7 πρὸς ἑαυτὸν ἔλεγεν) Mk 10:26; 16:3. διαθήκην ὁ θεὸς διέθετο πρὸς τοὺς πατέρας ὑμῶν, λέγων πρὸς Ἀβραάμ God made a covenant Ac 3:25 (διατίθημι 1). ὅρκον ὀμνύναι πρ. τινα (ὀμνύω, end) Lk 1:73.
f. of asking, praying δέομαι Ac 8:24. εὔχομαι (cf. 2 Macc 9:13) 2 Cor 13:7. προσεύχομαι (cf. 1 Km 12:19; 2 Esdr 12 [Neh 2]: 4; 2 Macc 2:10) Hv 1, 1, 9. γνωρίζεσθαι πρὸς τὸν θεόν Phil 4:6 (γνωρίζω 1).—Also after nouns like δέησις, λόγος et al. Ro 10:1; 15:30; 2 Cor 1:18 al.
2. of time—a. denoting approach toward (X., Pla. et al.) πρὸς ἑσπέραν toward evening Lk 24:29 (s. ἑσπέρα).
b. of the duration of a period of time for πρὸς καιρόν for a time, for a while (καιρός 1) Lk 8:13; 1 Cor 7:5. πρὸς καιρὸν ὥρας (καιρός 1) 1 Th 2:17. πρὸς ὥραν for an hour, i.e. for a short time J 5:35; 2 Cor 7:8; Gal 2:5a; Phlm 15; MPol 11:2. πρὸς ὀλίγας ἡμέρας Hb 12:10. Also πρὸς ὀλίγον Js 4:14 (ὀλίγος 3b). πρὸς τὸ παρόν for the present Hb 12:11 (πάρειμι 1b).
3. of the goal aimed at or striven toward—a. with conscious purpose for, for the purpose of, on behalf of οὗτος ἦν ὁ πρὸς τὴν ἐλεημοσύνην καθήμενος this was the one who sat (and begged) for alms Ac 3:10. πρὸς τὴν ἔνδειξιν τῆς δικαιοσύνης αὐτοῦ Ro 3:26. τοῦτο πρὸς τὸ ὑμῶν αὐτῶν σύμφορον λέγω 1 Cor 7:35a; cf. b. ἐγράφη πρὸς νουθεσίαν ἡμῶν 10:11. Cf. Ro 15:2; 1 Cor 6:5; 2 Cor 4:6; 7:3; 11:8; Eph 4:12.—W. the acc. of the inf. (Polyb. 1, 48, 5; PRyl. 69, 16; BGU 226, 22; Jer 34:10; 2 Macc 4:45; Jos., Ant. 14, 170; 15, 148 al.) πρὸς τὸ θεαθῆναι τοῖς ἀνθρώποις in order to be seen by men Mt 23:5; cf. 6:1. πρὸς τὸ κατακαῦσαι αὐτά 13:30. πρὸς τὸ ἐνταφιάσαι με 26:12. πρὸς τὸ ἀποπλανᾶν εἰ δυνατὸν τοὺς ἐκλεκτούς Mk 13:22. πρὸς τὸ μὴ ἀτενίσαι υἱοὺς Ἰσραήλ 2 Cor 3:13. Cf. Eph 6:11 a; 1 Th 2:9; 2 Th 3:8; Js 3:3 t.r.
b. of the result that follows a set of circumstances (so that) πάντα πρὸς οἰκοδομὴν γινέσθω everything is to be done in such a way that it contributes to edification 1 Cor 14:26; cf. vs. 12; Col 2:23 (but see 4a below); 1 Ti 4:7. ὁ βλέπων γυναῖκα πρὸς τὸ ἐπιθυμῆσαι αὐτήν the one who looks at a woman in such a way that desire for her is aroused in him Mt 5:28. λευκαί εἰσιν πρὸς θερισμόν they (the fields) are white, so that the harvest may begin J 4:35. αὕτη ἡ ἀσθένεια οὐκ ἔστιν πρὸς θάνατον this disease is not of the kind that will lead to death 11:4. Cf. ἁμαρτία πρὸς θάνατον 1J 5:16f.
c. gener. of purpose, destiny (Jos., Bell. 4, 573τὸ πρ. σωτηρίαν φάρμακον) τῷ θεῷ πρὸς δόξαν for the glory of God 2 Cor 1:20 (on πρὸς δόξαν cf. Dit., Syll.3 456, 15; 704E, 21; 3 Macc 2:9). τῇ πυρώσει πρὸς πειρασμὸν ὑμῖν γινομένῃ 1 Pt 4:12.—After adjectives and participles for ἀγαθὸς πρὸς οἰκοδομήν Eph 4:29 (ἀγ. 1 aβ). ἀδόκιμος Tit 1:16. ἀνεύθετος πρὸς παραχειμασίαν Ac 27:12. γεγυμνασμένος Hb 5:14. δυνατός 2 Cor 10:4. ἐξηρτισμένος 2 Ti 3:17. ἕτοιμος (q.v. 2) Tit 3:1; 1 Pt 3:15. ἱκανός (q.v. 2) 2 Cor 2:16. ὠφέλιμος 1 Ti 4:8a, b; 2 Ti 3:16.
4. denoting a hostile or friendly relationship—α. hostile against, with after verbs of disputing, etc.; cf. ἀνταγωνίζομαι, γογγύζω, διακρίνομαι (διακρίνω 2a), διαλέγομαι 1, πικραίνομαι (s. πικραίνω 2), στασιάζω, ἔστην (ἵστημι II 1c). ἐστίν τινι ἡ πάλη πρός Eph 6:12. ἔχειν τι πρός τινα have anything (to bring up) against someone Ac 24:19. μομφὴν ἔχειν πρός τινα Col 3:13. πρᾶγμα ἔχειν πρός τινα 1 Cor 6:1 (πρᾶγμα 5). ἐγένετο γογγυσμὸς τῶν Ἐ͂λληνιστῶν πρὸς τοὺς Ἑβραίους Ac 6:1. τὸ στόμα ἡμῶν ἀνέῳγεν πρὸς ὑμᾶς 2 Cor 6:11 (ἀνοίγω 2). ἐν ἔχθρᾳ ὄντες πρὸς αὐτούς Lk 23:12. βλασφημίαι πρὸς τὸν θεόν Rv 13:6. ἀσύμφωνοι πρ. ἀλλήλους unable to agree among themselves Ac 28:25; cf. the parallel structure in Col 2:23.
b. friendly to, toward, with, before ἐργάζεσθαι τὸ ἀγαθόν Gal 6:10a, b (ἐργάζομαι 2a). μακροθυμεῖν 1 Th 5:14. εἰρήνην ἔχειν πρ. τὸν θεόν Ro 5:1 (s. εἰρήνη 3). παρρησίαν ἔχειν πρὸς τ. θεόν 1J 3:21; cf. 5:14. πίστιν ἔχειν πρὸς τ. κύριον Ἰ. Phlm 5. πεποίθησιν ἔχειν πρὸς τ. θεόν 2 Cor 3:4. ἔχειν χάριν πρ. ὅλον τὸν λαόν Ac 2:47 (FPCheetham, ET 74, ’63, 214f). πραΰτητα ἐνδείκνυσθαι Tit 3:2. ἐν σοφίᾳ περιπατεῖν Col 4:5. ἤπιον εἶναι πρὸς πάντας 2 Ti 2:24.—After substantives πίστις 1 Th 1:8 (cf. 4 Macc 15:24). παρρησία 2 Cor 7:4. κοινωνία 6:14. συμφώνησις vs. 15 (cf. Is 7:2).
5. to indicate a connection—a. with reference to (Ocellus Luc. c. 42 πρὸς ἡμᾶς=with reference to us) ἔγνωσαν ὅτι πρὸς αὐτοὺς τὴν παραβολὴν εἶπεν they recognized that he had spoken the parable with reference to them Mk 12:12; Lk 20:19; cf. 12:41. ἔλεγεν παραβολὴν πρὸς τὸ δεῖν προσεύχεσθαι he told them a parable about the need of praying 18:1. οὐδεὶς ἔγνω πρὸς τί εἶπεν αὐτῷ nobody understood with respect to what (=why) he said (this) to him J 13:28. πρὸς τὴν σκληροκαρδίαν ὑμῶν with reference to (i.e. because of) your perversity Mt 19:8; Mk 10:5. Cf. Ro 10:21a; Hb 1:7f. οὐκ ἀπεκρίθη αὐτῷ πρὸς οὐδὲ ἓν ῥῆμα he did not answer him a single word with reference to anything Mt 27:14 (s. ἀποκρίνομαι 1). ἀνταποκριθῆναι πρὸς ταῦτα Lk 14:6 (s. ἀνταποκρίνομαι). ἀπρόσκοπον συνείδησιν ἔχειν πρὸς τὸν θεόν have a clear conscience with respect to God Ac 24:16.
b. as far as—is concerned, with regard to (Maximus Tyr. 31, 3b) πρὸς τὴν πληροφορίαν τῆς ἐλπίδος Hb 6:11. συνιστάνοντες ἑαυτοὺς πρὸς πᾶσαν συνείδησιν ἀνθρώπων we are recommending ourselves as far as every human conscience is concerned=to every human conscience (πρός w. acc. also stands simply for the dative; s. Mayser II 2 p. 359) 2 Cor 4:2. τὰ πρὸς τὸν θεόν that which concerns God or as adverbial acc. with reference to what concerns God (Soph., Phil. 1441; X., De Rep. Lac. 13, 11; Ps.-Isocr. 1, 13 εὐσεβεῖν τὰ πρὸς τ. θεούς; Dit., Syll.3 204, 51f; 306, 38; Wilcken, Chrest. 109, 3 εὐσεβὴς τὰ πρὸς θεούς; Ex 4:16; 18:19; Jos., Ant. 9, 236)Ro 15:17; Hb 2:17; 5:1. τὰ πρός τι that which belongs to someth.; that which is necessary for someth. (Plut., Mor. 109B; Jos., Ant. 12, 405τὰ πρὸς τὴν μάχην; 14, 27) τὰ πρὸς ἀπαρτισμόν Lk 14:28 t.r. τὰ πρὸς εἰρήνην (Test. Jud. 9) vs. 32; what makes for peace 19:42. Cf. Ac 28:10; 2 Pt 1:3.
c. elliptically τί πρὸς ἡμᾶς (sc. ἐστιν); what is that to us? Mt 27:4. τί πρὸς σέ; how does it concern you? J 21:22f (cf. Epict. 4, 1, 10 τί τοῦτο πρὸς σέ; Plut., Mor. 986B; Vi. Aesopi I c. 14 p. 265, 4 τί πρὸς ἐμέ
. d. in accordance with ὀρθοποδεῖν πρὸς τὴν ἀλήθειαν Gal 2:14. πρὸς τὸ κένωμα in accordance with the emptiness Hm 11:3. πρὸς τὸ θέλημα in accordance w. the will Lk 12:47; Hs 9, 5, 2. πρὸς ἃ ἔπραξεν 2 Cor 5:10. πρὸς ὅ Eph 3:4.—In comparison with, to be compared to (Pind., Hdt.+; Ps.-Pla., Alcyon c. 3 πρὸς τὸν πάντα αἰῶνα=[life is short] in comparison to all eternity; Sir 25:19) ἄξια πρός Ro 8:18 (RLeaney, ET 64, ’52f; 92 interprets Col 2:23 in the light of this usage). Cf. IMg 12.
e. expressing purpose πρὸς τό w. inf. in order to, for the purpose of Mk 13:22; Ac 3:19.
6. adverbial expressions (cf. πρὸς ὀργήν=ὀργίλως Soph., Elect. 369; Jos., Bell. 2, 534.πρὸς βίαν=βιαίως Aeschyl., Prom. 210, 355, Eum. 5; Menand., Sam. 214; Philo, Spec. Leg. 3, 3. πρὸς ἡδονήν Jos., Ant. 7, 195; 12, 398) πρὸς φθόνον prob.=φθονερῶς jealously Js 4:5 (s. φθόνος, where the lit. is given).
7. by, at, near πρός τινα εἶναι be (in company) with someone Mt 13:56; Mk 6:3; 9:19a; 14:49; Lk 9:41; J 1:1f; 1 Th 3:4; 2 Th 2:5; 3:10; 1J 1:2. διαμένειν Ac 10:48 D; Gal 2:5b. ἐπιμένειν 1:18; 1 Cor 16:7. καταμένειν 16:6. μένειν Ac 18:3 D. παρεῖναι 12:20; 2 Cor 11:9; Gal 4:18, 20; cf. παρουσία πρὸς ὑμᾶς Phil 1:26. παρεπιδημεῖν 1 Cl 1:2. πρὸς σὲ ποιῶ τὸ πάσχα Mt 26:18b. Cf. also 2 Cor 1:12; 7:12; 12:21; 2 Th 3:1; Phlm 13; 1J 2:1; Hm 11:9b.—πρὸς ἑαυτούς among or to themselves Mk 9:10 (in case πρὸς ἑ. belongs w. τὸν λόγον ἐκράτησαν; Bl-D. §239, 1 app.). πρὸς ἑαυτὸν προσηύχετο he uttered a prayer to himself Lk 18:11. Cf. 24:12.—δεδεμένον πρὸς θύραν tied at a door Mk 11:4. πρὸς τ. θάλασσαν by the sea-side Mk 4:1b. On πρὸς τὸ φῶς at the fire Mk 14:54; Lk 22:56 cf. Bl-D. §239, 3; Rob. 625 (perh. w. the idea of turning toward the fire; cf. also 4 Km 23:3). πρὸς ἓν τῶν ὀρέων on one of the mountains 1 Cl 10:7. τὰ πρὸς τὴν θύραν the place near the door Mk 2:2. πρὸς γράμμα letter by letter Hv 2, 1, 4. M-M.
William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 709–711.
Note
7. by, at, near πρός τινα εἶναι be (in company) with someone Mt 13:56; Mk 6:3; 9:19a; 14:49; Lk 9:41; J 1:1f; 1 Th 3:4; 2 Th 2:5; 3:10; 1J 1:2
That reference is to John 1:1
John 1:1 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1John 1:2 is referenced also
1 John 1:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
civic
Well-known member
yes another major failure with basic language and definitions of words and their meanings.
He keeps talking about Allos
but it is hard to figure out why
Matt 2:12And after being warned by God in a dream not to return to Herod, the magi left for their own country by another way.
Matt 4:21Going on from there He saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee, and his brother John, in the boat with their father Zebedee, mending their nets; and He called them.
Matt 5:39But I say to you, do not show opposition against an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other toward him also.
Matt 8:9For I also am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to this one, ‘Go!’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come!’ and he comes, and to my slave, ‘Do this!’ and he does it.”
Matt 12:13Then He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand!” He stretched it out, and it was restored to normal, like the other.
Matt 13:5Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and they sprang up immediately, because they had no depth of soil.
Matt 13:7Others fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out.
Matt 13:8But others fell on the good soil and yielded a crop, some a hundred, some sixty, and some thirty times as much.
Matt 13:24Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.
Matt 13:31He presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a person took and sowed in his field;
Matt 13:33He spoke another parable to them: “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three sata of flour until it was all leavened.”
Matt 16:14And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah, or one of the other prophets.”
Matt 19:9And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
Matt 20:3And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace;
Matt 20:6And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing around; and he said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day long?’
Matt 21:8Most of the crowd spread their cloaks on the road, and others were cutting branches from the trees and spreading them on the road.
Matt 21:33“Listen to another parable. There was a landowner who planted a vineyard and put a fence around it, and dug a wine press in it, and built a tower, and he leased it to vine-growers and went on a journey.
Matt 21:36Again, he sent other slaves, more than the first; and they did the same things to them.
Matt 21:41They said to Him, “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end and lease the vineyard to other vine-growers, who will pay him the fruit in the proper seasons.”
Matt 22:4Again he sent other slaves, saying, ‘Tell those who have been invited, “Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fattened cattle are all butchered and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast!” ’
Matt 25:16The one who had received the five talents immediately went and did business with them, and earned five more talents.
Matt 25:17In the same way the one who had received the two talents earned two more.
Matt 25:20The one who had received the five talents came up and brought five more talents, saying, ‘Master, you entrusted five talents to me. See, I have earned five more talents.’
Matt 25:22“Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, ‘Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have earned two more talents.’
it never refers to a numerical oneness
civic
Well-known member
yes its just another one of his fallacious arguments and redefining words to fit a doctrinal belief, sound familiar lol.
101G
Well-known member
How clear can God get. when the bible states a. the First is "WITH" the Last, or b. the Word is "WITH" God, or "EQUAL" .... "WITH" God, as in Phil. 2:6 clearly states. How many times must God tell you before you can believe. Isaiah got it right, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?"
if one cannot believe, 2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" 2 Thessalonians 2:12 "That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." .
now, another clear example. Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;" Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"
is this Revelation from ONE PERSON, TWO PERSONS, or THREE PERSONS?
FROM .... "HIM", him is a single person, "which is, and which was, and which is to come". is this the person called the Father? and from the "seven Spirits". is this the person called the Holy Spirit?, now two persons? the Father and the Holy Spirit? now the third person... "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness" Jesus the Christ, the third person? if one believes that this is three separates person, then you ERROR. THIS IS THE SAME ONE PERSON. From HIM, not from them. the conjunction "AND" as in John 17:3 connect all the subjects, to "HIM that the Letter is from.
IF ONE CANNOT COUNT, JUST ASK................ this is the POWER of GOD in the H259 ECHAD of HIMSELF, as the NT clearly states, the G243 ALLOS of himself in GLORIFIED FLESH, which answer John 17:3 & 5.
this is just too easy not to understand.
101G.
sorry with does not mean the same one
you were given the lexical definition and it did not support your theology
Why you would quote
John 17:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
is a mystery as that is two persons
as is the passage in Isaiah you quote from
Isaiah 53:2–12 (KJV 1900) — 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, And as a root out of a dry ground: He hath no form nor comeliness; And when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; A man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: And we hid as it were our faces from him; He was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, And carried our sorrows: Yet we did esteem him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: The chastisement of our peace was upon him; And with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, Yet he opened not his mouth: He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, So he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: And who shall declare his generation? For he was cut off out of the land of the living: For the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, And with the rich in his death; Because he had done no violence, Neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: When thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, He shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: By his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; For he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, And he shall divide the spoil with the strong; Because he hath poured out his soul unto death: And he was numbered with the transgressors; And he bare the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors.
101G
Well-known member
don't be sorry, .... KNOW THE TRUTH........
LOL, read it again.
boy oh boy, listen, James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
think..... is GOD ... AND, AND, AND, the FATHER two separate and distinct persons? no nor is God, and Jesus Christ ... (smile).
]101G.
except that is not the verse in viewdon't be sorry, .... KNOW THE TRUTH........
LOL, read it again.
boy oh boy, listen, James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
think..... is GOD ... AND, AND, AND, the FATHER two separate and distinct persons? no nor is God, and Jesus Christ ... (smile).
]101G.
John 17:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Here we have God and Jesus Christ
One who sent and one who was sent
101G
Well-known member
in James we have God ... "AND" ..... the Father. so 101G's analogy answer John's 17:3
101G
101G
Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all.
John 17:3, James 1:27, and Hebrews 1:3 are just a few examples of the ECHAD of God or the Numerical difference of the same ONE PERSON, in an Equally Share of oneself in flesh. other words the "ARM" of God. and this is clearly defined in scriptures. Isaiah 63:5 and revealed in Isaiah chapter 53. ....... this is too easy not to understand.
101G.
John 17:3, James 1:27, and Hebrews 1:3 are just a few examples of the ECHAD of God or the Numerical difference of the same ONE PERSON, in an Equally Share of oneself in flesh. other words the "ARM" of God. and this is clearly defined in scriptures. Isaiah 63:5 and revealed in Isaiah chapter 53. ....... this is too easy not to understand.
101G.
MTMattie
Active member
They are not the same person.
101G
Well-known member
To all,
THINK, if God sent his "OWN ARM" into the world, who do you think came? remember the scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." remember "ARM" here means "power", And that POWER was in, or manifested in flesh and blood.... Hello.
question, "if God sent his OWN ARM into the word as a man to .... "BRING" ... salvation unto his .... "OWN-SELF", who do you think is his .... "OWN ARM?" that was sent?
my God it can't be that hard to understand.
101G.
THINK, if God sent his "OWN ARM" into the world, who do you think came? remember the scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." remember "ARM" here means "power", And that POWER was in, or manifested in flesh and blood.... Hello.
question, "if God sent his OWN ARM into the word as a man to .... "BRING" ... salvation unto his .... "OWN-SELF", who do you think is his .... "OWN ARM?" that was sent?
my God it can't be that hard to understand.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
To all,
Put your thinking caps on. "THE ARM OF GOD EXPLAINED".
what is the ARM of God? answer he himself, "POWER". and that POWER was manifested in Flesh to bring SALVATION of MAN unto himself, (see Isaiah 63:5).
if God's Power was Manifested in flesh as a man, how, and do the bible explain this? it does. let's see it. Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?" Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him." Isaiah 53:3 "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not." Isaiah 53:4 "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted."
this is the Lord Jesus the Christ, the ARM of God in flesh. do the bible teaches us this concept, his "ARM/POWER" in flesh? yes. scripture. Sennacherib king of Assyria invades Judah, he brought with him the instrument to accomplish his Goals. listen, after king Hezekiah the king of Judah Spake with God, 2 Chronicles 32:6 "And he set captains of war over the people, and gathered them together to him in the street of the gate of the city, and spake comfortably to them, saying," 2 Chronicles 32:7 "Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him:" 2 Chronicles 32:8 "With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah."
an ARM of Flesh? yes, the king's power... Fighting men, his army. God only need ONE. and this was him, to do the work of salvation. and as God's ARM of Flesh on earth
this ARM of Flesh is what the Lord Jesus is in flesh a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v.1. to make empty STATE. which is the G243 allos of his OWN SLEF in a equally divided state of H 259 ECHAD. this is just too easy not to understand.
101G
Put your thinking caps on. "THE ARM OF GOD EXPLAINED".
what is the ARM of God? answer he himself, "POWER". and that POWER was manifested in Flesh to bring SALVATION of MAN unto himself, (see Isaiah 63:5).
if God's Power was Manifested in flesh as a man, how, and do the bible explain this? it does. let's see it. Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?" Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him." Isaiah 53:3 "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not." Isaiah 53:4 "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted."
this is the Lord Jesus the Christ, the ARM of God in flesh. do the bible teaches us this concept, his "ARM/POWER" in flesh? yes. scripture. Sennacherib king of Assyria invades Judah, he brought with him the instrument to accomplish his Goals. listen, after king Hezekiah the king of Judah Spake with God, 2 Chronicles 32:6 "And he set captains of war over the people, and gathered them together to him in the street of the gate of the city, and spake comfortably to them, saying," 2 Chronicles 32:7 "Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him:" 2 Chronicles 32:8 "With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah."
an ARM of Flesh? yes, the king's power... Fighting men, his army. God only need ONE. and this was him, to do the work of salvation. and as God's ARM of Flesh on earth
this ARM of Flesh is what the Lord Jesus is in flesh a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v.1. to make empty STATE. which is the G243 allos of his OWN SLEF in a equally divided state of H 259 ECHAD. this is just too easy not to understand.
101G
101G
Well-known member
KNOWNING now who the ARM of God is in flesh. this answer, "the Father is Greater than I question". B. "Why the Lord Jesus is in a submissive position in doing God will, and praying to God in the example. Knowing this "ARM of FLESH" answers all of the questions concerning Christ. Just know and UNDETRSTAND Isaiah 63:5 or Isaiah 59:16 ... Oh this is too easy.
101G.
101G.
Then why have you managed to get it so wrong
The text does not say The Arm of the lord and the father are one person as you believe
101G
Well-known member
But you do believe they are one person
