How in the world did you come up with the idea that "the devil took the Christ right out of the picture by making him God"? This makes absolutely no sense at all.
Do Trinitarians really know their foundational core doctrines and their impact on their beliefs and others?
- Thread starter APAK
- Start date
Peterlag
Well-known member
You don't believe in Jesus Christ. You don't know who he is or what he's about. You think he's God.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Then what's this religion about if not trying to be good like the way Jesus was?
We are forgiven of sin by Jesus first. Then we can follow Him by doing good.
I see that you totally avoided answering why you said "the devil took the Christ right out of the picture by making him God". This continues to make absolutely no sense at all. Instead, you vomited out ad hominem accusations.
Who am I to contradict Jesus when He clearly declared that He is the "I Am" OT God that existed before Abraham existed.
Okay...
John 20:27-29 KJV - 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
dwight92070
Well-known member
1. Isaiah tells us that Jesus is God - Is. 9:6;
2. Matthew tells us His name Emmanuel means "God with us";
3. John tells us that the Word was God and that the Word became flesh, Jesus - John1:1, 14;
4. Jesus identifies Himself as God, calling Himself "I am" -John 8:58;
5. Jesus tells Philip, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." and "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me?" John 14:9-10;
6. Thomas calls Jesus "My Lord and My God!" in John 20:28;
7. John tells us that He "was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." John 5:18;
8. Paul tells us the elders from Ephesus that God purchased the church of God "with His own blood", yet we know it was Jesus who shed His blood. Acts 20:28;
9. Paul tells us that Jesus existed in the form of God, but did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped. Phil.2:6;
10. Paul said that Jesus "is the image of the invisible God, for by Him all things were created" Col.1:15;
11. and "in Him (Jesus) all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form," Col.2:9;
12. Paul shows us that Jesus is part of the Trinity - "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all." 2 Cor.13:14;
13. Jesus Himself identifies as one "person" in the Trinity " ... baptizing them in the name (notice this is singular) of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." Mat.28:19;
14. The angel Gabriel told Mary that the "Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God." Obviously a reference to the Trinity. Luke:1:35;
15. Matthew gives us another Trinity reference at Jesus' baptism: "After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and ... he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove ... and ... a voice out of the heavens ... "This is My beloved Son,in whom I am well-pleased." Mt.3:16-17
16. The author of Hebrews tells us that God Himself calls Jesus "God". "But of the Son, He says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever ... Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You." And God commands all the angels to worship Jesus. "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Hebrews 1: 6,8;
17. Peter also refers to the Trinity: " ... according to the foreknowledge of God, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ ..." 1 Peter 1:2;
18. Peter calls Jesus "our God and Savior" " ... by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: ..." 2 Pet.1:1
19. Jesus tell us that "No one can serve two masters; ..." Mat. 6:24 So if God is our ultimate Master, then we cannot also have Jesus as our ultimate Master - unless He is God.
20. John tells us that Jesus was "the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us ..." 1 John 1:3
21. Only the Father and Jesus are rightly called Lord.
22. Only God and Jesus are called Savior.
23. Only God and Jesus can forgive sins.
25. Only the Father and Jesus are called God.
26. Only the Father and Jesus are called Creator.
27. Both Jesus and God have a kingdom, which is the same kingdom.
28. Both God and Jesus have a gospel, which is the same gospel.
28. Both God and Jesus have all authority in heaven and earth.
29. Both God and Jesus are worthy of worship by all creation.
30. Both God and Jesus are eternal.
31. Both God and Jesus have power over nature.
32. Both God and Jesus have power over Satan.
33. Both God and Jesus send the Holy Spirit to us.
34. Both God and Jesus have all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
35. Both God and Jesus have power over death.
36. Both God and Jesus have life in themselves.
37. We must put our faith in both God and Jesus.
38. Both God and Jesus have promised us eternal life.
39. Both God and Jesus are the Beginning and the End.
40. Both God and Jesus are the First and the Last.
41. Both God and Jesus are the Alpha and the Omega.
42. Both God and Jesus have power over sickness and disease.
43. Both God and Jesus loved us and gave their life for us.
44. Both God and Jesus are the ultimate Judge.
45. Both God and Jesus are called good.
46. Both God and Jesus are without sin.
47. Both God and Jesus said, "I Am"
2. Matthew tells us His name Emmanuel means "God with us";
3. John tells us that the Word was God and that the Word became flesh, Jesus - John1:1, 14;
4. Jesus identifies Himself as God, calling Himself "I am" -John 8:58;
5. Jesus tells Philip, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." and "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me?" John 14:9-10;
6. Thomas calls Jesus "My Lord and My God!" in John 20:28;
7. John tells us that He "was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." John 5:18;
8. Paul tells us the elders from Ephesus that God purchased the church of God "with His own blood", yet we know it was Jesus who shed His blood. Acts 20:28;
9. Paul tells us that Jesus existed in the form of God, but did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped. Phil.2:6;
10. Paul said that Jesus "is the image of the invisible God, for by Him all things were created" Col.1:15;
11. and "in Him (Jesus) all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form," Col.2:9;
12. Paul shows us that Jesus is part of the Trinity - "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all." 2 Cor.13:14;
13. Jesus Himself identifies as one "person" in the Trinity " ... baptizing them in the name (notice this is singular) of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." Mat.28:19;
14. The angel Gabriel told Mary that the "Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God." Obviously a reference to the Trinity. Luke:1:35;
15. Matthew gives us another Trinity reference at Jesus' baptism: "After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and ... he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove ... and ... a voice out of the heavens ... "This is My beloved Son,in whom I am well-pleased." Mt.3:16-17
16. The author of Hebrews tells us that God Himself calls Jesus "God". "But of the Son, He says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever ... Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You." And God commands all the angels to worship Jesus. "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Hebrews 1: 6,8;
17. Peter also refers to the Trinity: " ... according to the foreknowledge of God, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ ..." 1 Peter 1:2;
18. Peter calls Jesus "our God and Savior" " ... by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: ..." 2 Pet.1:1
19. Jesus tell us that "No one can serve two masters; ..." Mat. 6:24 So if God is our ultimate Master, then we cannot also have Jesus as our ultimate Master - unless He is God.
20. John tells us that Jesus was "the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us ..." 1 John 1:3
21. Only the Father and Jesus are rightly called Lord.
22. Only God and Jesus are called Savior.
23. Only God and Jesus can forgive sins.
25. Only the Father and Jesus are called God.
26. Only the Father and Jesus are called Creator.
27. Both Jesus and God have a kingdom, which is the same kingdom.
28. Both God and Jesus have a gospel, which is the same gospel.
28. Both God and Jesus have all authority in heaven and earth.
29. Both God and Jesus are worthy of worship by all creation.
30. Both God and Jesus are eternal.
31. Both God and Jesus have power over nature.
32. Both God and Jesus have power over Satan.
33. Both God and Jesus send the Holy Spirit to us.
34. Both God and Jesus have all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
35. Both God and Jesus have power over death.
36. Both God and Jesus have life in themselves.
37. We must put our faith in both God and Jesus.
38. Both God and Jesus have promised us eternal life.
39. Both God and Jesus are the Beginning and the End.
40. Both God and Jesus are the First and the Last.
41. Both God and Jesus are the Alpha and the Omega.
42. Both God and Jesus have power over sickness and disease.
43. Both God and Jesus loved us and gave their life for us.
44. Both God and Jesus are the ultimate Judge.
45. Both God and Jesus are called good.
46. Both God and Jesus are without sin.
47. Both God and Jesus said, "I Am"
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dwight92070
Well-known member
Response to #11: Sorry I didn't respond earlier. I must have been super busy and missed your post. Just today I was browsing through those earlier posts and found yours.
Nobody's building a doctrine on what isn't there. It's simply an observation that the Lamb, Jesus, did not bow down and worship the Father. That obviously tells me something, not building a doctrine, but reinforcing a doctrine that has been around since the early church. So what explanation do you have for that?
Peterlag
Well-known member
I did not avoid answering or vomit. The devil took Christ right out of the picture which is why you do not know who Jesus is. You have such a hard time understanding what I say because your mind is twisted into believing what is not real.
Peterlag
Well-known member
It's all about you and how you do good. I rest my case. The faith of Jesus Christ is not involved.
THE faith of Jesus Christ.. is serving Him in a New Testament church.
Saving faith is entrusting your salvation with Him.
Salvation vs service
dwight92070
Well-known member
1. Isaiah tells us that Jesus is God - Is. 9:6;
2. Matthew tells us His name Emmanuel means "God with us";
3. John tells us that the Word was God and that the Word became flesh, Jesus - John1:1, 14;
4. Jesus identifies Himself as God, calling Himself "I am" -John 8:58;
5. Jesus tells Philip, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." and "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me?" John 14:9-10;
6. Thomas calls Jesus "My Lord and My God!" in John 20:28;
7. John tells us that He "was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." John 5:18;
8. Paul tells us the elders from Ephesus that God purchased the church of God "with His own blood", yet we know it was Jesus who shed His blood. Acts 20:28;
9. Paul tells us that Jesus existed in the form of God, but did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped. Phil.2:6;
10. Paul said that Jesus "is the image of the invisible God, for by Him all things were created" Col.1:15;
11. and "in Him (Jesus) all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form," Col.2:9;
12. Paul shows us that Jesus is part of the Trinity - "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all." 2 Cor.13:14;
13. Jesus Himself identifies as one "person" in the Trinity " ... baptizing them in the name (notice this is singular) of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." Mat.28:19;
14. The angel Gabriel told Mary that the "Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God." Obviously a reference to the Trinity. Luke:1:35;
15. Matthew gives us another Trinity reference at Jesus' baptism: "After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and ... he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove ... and ... a voice out of the heavens ... "This is My beloved Son,in whom I am well-pleased." Mt.3:16-17
16. The author of Hebrews tells us that God Himself calls Jesus "God". "But of the Son, He says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever ... Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You." And God commands all the angels to worship Jesus. "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Hebrews 1: 6,8;
17. Peter also refers to the Trinity: " ... according to the foreknowledge of God, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ ..." 1 Peter 1:2;
18. Peter calls Jesus "our God and Savior" " ... by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: ..." 2 Pet.1:1
19. Jesus tell us that "No one can serve two masters; ..." Mat. 6:24 So if God is our ultimate Master, then we cannot also have Jesus as our ultimate Master - unless He is God.
20. John tells us that Jesus was "the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us ..." 1 John 1:3
21. Only the Father and Jesus are rightly called Lord.
22. Only God and Jesus are called Savior.
23. Only God and Jesus can forgive sins.
24. Only the Father and Jesus are called God.
25. Only the Father and Jesus are called Creator.
26. Both Jesus and God have a kingdom, which is the same kingdom.
27. Both God and Jesus have a gospel, which is the same gospel.
28. Both God and Jesus have all authority in heaven and earth.
29. Both God and Jesus are worthy of worship by all creation.
30. Both God and Jesus are eternal.
31. Both God and Jesus have power over nature.
32. Both God and Jesus have power over Satan.
33. Both God and Jesus send the Holy Spirit to us.
34. Both God and Jesus have all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
35. Both God and Jesus have power over death.
36. Both God and Jesus have life in themselves.
37. We must put our faith in both God and Jesus.
38. Both God and Jesus have promised us eternal life.
39. Both God and Jesus are the Beginning and the End.
40. Both God and Jesus are the First and the Last.
41. Both God and Jesus are the Alpha and the Omega.
42. Both God and Jesus have power over sickness and disease.
43. Both God and Jesus loved us and gave their life for us. (God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself)
44. Both God and Jesus are the ultimate Judge.
45. Both God and Jesus are called good.
46. Both God and Jesus are without sin.
47. Both God and Jesus said, "I Am"
48. Both God and Jesus are called King.
49. All the angels worship both God and Jesus,
50. Both God and Jesus are called our Redeemer.
2. Matthew tells us His name Emmanuel means "God with us";
3. John tells us that the Word was God and that the Word became flesh, Jesus - John1:1, 14;
4. Jesus identifies Himself as God, calling Himself "I am" -John 8:58;
5. Jesus tells Philip, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." and "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me?" John 14:9-10;
6. Thomas calls Jesus "My Lord and My God!" in John 20:28;
7. John tells us that He "was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." John 5:18;
8. Paul tells us the elders from Ephesus that God purchased the church of God "with His own blood", yet we know it was Jesus who shed His blood. Acts 20:28;
9. Paul tells us that Jesus existed in the form of God, but did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped. Phil.2:6;
10. Paul said that Jesus "is the image of the invisible God, for by Him all things were created" Col.1:15;
11. and "in Him (Jesus) all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form," Col.2:9;
12. Paul shows us that Jesus is part of the Trinity - "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all." 2 Cor.13:14;
13. Jesus Himself identifies as one "person" in the Trinity " ... baptizing them in the name (notice this is singular) of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." Mat.28:19;
14. The angel Gabriel told Mary that the "Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God." Obviously a reference to the Trinity. Luke:1:35;
15. Matthew gives us another Trinity reference at Jesus' baptism: "After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and ... he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove ... and ... a voice out of the heavens ... "This is My beloved Son,in whom I am well-pleased." Mt.3:16-17
16. The author of Hebrews tells us that God Himself calls Jesus "God". "But of the Son, He says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever ... Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You." And God commands all the angels to worship Jesus. "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Hebrews 1: 6,8;
17. Peter also refers to the Trinity: " ... according to the foreknowledge of God, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ ..." 1 Peter 1:2;
18. Peter calls Jesus "our God and Savior" " ... by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: ..." 2 Pet.1:1
19. Jesus tell us that "No one can serve two masters; ..." Mat. 6:24 So if God is our ultimate Master, then we cannot also have Jesus as our ultimate Master - unless He is God.
20. John tells us that Jesus was "the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us ..." 1 John 1:3
21. Only the Father and Jesus are rightly called Lord.
22. Only God and Jesus are called Savior.
23. Only God and Jesus can forgive sins.
24. Only the Father and Jesus are called God.
25. Only the Father and Jesus are called Creator.
26. Both Jesus and God have a kingdom, which is the same kingdom.
27. Both God and Jesus have a gospel, which is the same gospel.
28. Both God and Jesus have all authority in heaven and earth.
29. Both God and Jesus are worthy of worship by all creation.
30. Both God and Jesus are eternal.
31. Both God and Jesus have power over nature.
32. Both God and Jesus have power over Satan.
33. Both God and Jesus send the Holy Spirit to us.
34. Both God and Jesus have all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
35. Both God and Jesus have power over death.
36. Both God and Jesus have life in themselves.
37. We must put our faith in both God and Jesus.
38. Both God and Jesus have promised us eternal life.
39. Both God and Jesus are the Beginning and the End.
40. Both God and Jesus are the First and the Last.
41. Both God and Jesus are the Alpha and the Omega.
42. Both God and Jesus have power over sickness and disease.
43. Both God and Jesus loved us and gave their life for us. (God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself)
44. Both God and Jesus are the ultimate Judge.
45. Both God and Jesus are called good.
46. Both God and Jesus are without sin.
47. Both God and Jesus said, "I Am"
48. Both God and Jesus are called King.
49. All the angels worship both God and Jesus,
50. Both God and Jesus are called our Redeemer.
How can your satan be more powerful than Christ? How can the devil possibly take "Christ right out of the picture"? Explain that to us without spewing out ad hominem vomit. Is that possible for you?
I mentioned that Jesus declared that He is the "I Am" OT God that existed before Abraham and you're declaring that as being "not real". You must have ripped John 8:58 out of your Bible for you to say such a thing.
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DavidTree
Well-known member
Another good scripture, HOWEVER, that was Thomas claim(which is true but from man).
There is a scripture where Jesus declares that He is God but it is overlooked as it is not so obvious to most.
Keep in mind that the LORD Jesus Christ spoke in ways that require us to ponder and pray for understanding, even though it is very easy to SEE when we allow our minds to receive what HE is saying to us.
DavidTree
Well-known member
EXCELLENT work - Thank You
There is one scripture that Jesus spoke that 100% identifies Himself as God.
It is easily overlooked.
DavidTree
Well-known member
The Scriptural Evidence is everywhere, just as you posted - again i say Thank You
DavidTree
Well-known member
Peterlag
Well-known member
Don't know what a melt down means. I'm simply trying to understand folks on here. We left off talking about Jesus Christ and his faith is out of the picture because it's all about the Christian and how well they walk in their flesh.
The "faith" in Romans 10:8 includes the fact that Jesus is YHWH (Romans 10:13).
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