Runningman
Well-known member
I said Jesus is not YHWH in Scripture. Your argument doesn't counter this.
God is Love
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
Aeliana
Well-known member
Come on, people now
Smile on your brother
Everybody get together
Try to love one another right now
'60s Youngbloods
“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.”
—MATTHEW 22:37
Being a Christian is a matter of the heart. It is all about a relationship with the God of the universe and the Creator of all things. Relationship with God is an intimate, up-close-and-personal relationship with the One who knows me most—and loves me still.
Smile on your brother
Everybody get together
Try to love one another right now
'60s Youngbloods
“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.”
—MATTHEW 22:37
Being a Christian is a matter of the heart. It is all about a relationship with the God of the universe and the Creator of all things. Relationship with God is an intimate, up-close-and-personal relationship with the One who knows me most—and loves me still.
civic
Well-known member
projecting again since its blasphemy on your part, not mine. I'm just agreeing with the Old Testament prophets, NT Apostles and Jesus.
Isa 43:15
"I am the Lord, your Holy One,
The Creator of Israel, your King."
Isa 44:6
"Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.
Isa 45:6
That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun
That there is no one besides Me.
I am the Lord, and there is no other,
Isa 48:12
"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.
We know from the N.T. that Christ is the One Lord, the Only Lord. We know in Revelations that Christ identifies Himself as the First and the Last the title which YHWH declares of Himself in Isaiah. We know that Christ is also identifies as the Holy One in the N.T. and our King all titles and descriptions of YHWH in the Isaiah passages.
John 12:41
These things Isaiah said, because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him
Isaiah 6:1-10
In the year of King, Uzziah's death, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. 2 Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called out to another and said,
"Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts,,
The whole earth is full of His glory."
4 And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke. 5 Then I said,
"Woe is me, for I am ruined!,
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I live among a people of unclean lips;,
For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts."
One need only follow the pronouns and the verbs. Isaiah saw the glory of YHWH. There is only ONE time that Isaiah saw the glory of YHWH; its in Ish 6. John says that Isaiah saw "his" glory, the glory of Jesus. That Isaiah ALSO foretold the suffering and rejection of Christ is true but irrelevant. You are confusing what Isaiah foretold (Christ's suffering and rejection) with what he literally "saw" (the glory of YWHW).
The verb Isaiah used for "saw" in 6;1 is רָאָה ("ra'ah"). In the qal, it refers to the act of seeing in the literal sense, to see with the eyes (as opposed to, for example, מַחֲזֶה "machazeh", which is the act or event of an ecstatic "vision"). In referring to this event, John uses the Greek word εἶδον ("eidon") - also a verb referring to the act of seeing with the eyes in the natural sense.
We know that God the Father is invisible, "whom no man hath seen, nor can see" (1 Tim 6:16). He is transcendent and lives in unapproachable light (1 Tim 6:16). But the Son is "the image of the invisible God" (Col 1:15). Thus the one whom Isaiah "saw" in the literal sense with his eyes is the one whom he explicitly identified as "YHWH" - the same one whose glory he saw according to John (Jn 12:41). Jesus himself makes this clear at v.45 "And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me."
There is only ONE time when Isaiah saw someone he, speaking by the Holy Spirit identified as "YHWH", and John's spirit-inspired narrative of the interactions of Jesus with the Jews in the 11th and 12th chapter of his gospel, including their rejection of Christ, says that what Isaiah saw was HIS (ie Jesus') glory. This works in perfect harmony with John's whole purpose, given the FACT that John had previously identified the one who became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn 1:14) as "God" (Jn 1:1). Nowhere in the context of this narrative (ie Ch 12) does John speak of Christ's "glorification" in his rejection and crucifixion. To claim that this is what John was talking about in referring to what Isaiah SAW with his eyes ignores the grammar and the immediate context, including the clear and unmistakable words of Christ himself in that very context.
Rev 22:13, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”
We can see here that Whoever is the Alpha/Omega also claims to be the first/last AND the beginning/end. It’s the same Person.
If we look back in Rev 1:17-18 we see the following:
“…Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
So, the One Who is first/last (and then is also Alpha/Omega and beginning/end) is the same Person who was dead and is alive forever more. It doesn’t take a scholar to figure out Who is the One speaking here. It does take a lot of mental gymnastics to explain away something so obvious.
The term "first/last" is used 4 times in Rev. Twice it is used along with "Alpha/Omega" with the Person claiming to be "first/last" AND the "Alpha/Omega."
"Alpha/Omega" is used 4 times in Rev. Twice with "first/last" and twice with "beginning/end."
"Beginning/end" occurs 3 times: twice with "Alpha/Omega" and once with "Alpha/Omega" AND "first/last."
In all of these texts, the speaker always refers to Himself with both or all of the titles. To say, "Well, this time it's Jehovah who is the first/last, this next time it's Jesus, then later it's Jehovah again..." is the mental gymnastics to which I referred.
Is God the first/last or is Jesus the first/last? Is God the Alpha/Omega or is Jesus the Alpha/Omega? Is God the beginning/end or is Jesus the beginning/end. An obvious way to reconcile the verses is to understand that Jesus is God.
According to unitarians, it seems God claimed to be the first/last in one sense while Jesus claimed to be first/last in another sense. You seem to gloss over the blatant connection of first/last with beginning/end and Alpha/Omega. In each verse, the Speaker who claims one title also claims one or both of the others. It's all the same person.
I usually wait patiently for unitarians to reply but this point has been nagging at me so I have to comment preemptively. I really am baffled by their suggestion from other discussion in the past that “first/last” has some meaning here other than the obvious one (a title synonymous with Alpha/Omega). You even say that Alpha/Omega is never used of the Son? Incredible!! We both have said that context is king so I would like to remind other readers of the context of Rev 1:17-18 (beginning in v.10, Young’s Literal):
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's-day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;' and, `What thou dost see, write in a scroll, and send to the seven assemblies that [are] in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.'
And I did turn to see the voice that did speak with me, and having turned, I saw seven golden lamp-stands, and in the midst of the seven lamp-stands, [one] like to a son of man, clothed to the foot, and girt round at the breast with a golden girdle, and his head and hairs white, as if white wool -- as snow, and his eyes as a flame of fire; and his feet like to fine brass, as in a furnace having been fired, and his voice as a sound of many waters, and having in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp two-edged sword is proceeding, and his countenance [is] as the sun shining in its might.
And when I saw him, I did fall at his feet as dead, and he placed his right hand upon me, saying to me, `Be not afraid; I am the First and the Last, and he who is living, and I did become dead, and, lo, I am living to the ages of the ages. Amen! and I have the keys of the hades and of the death.
Do you realize this is one scene? The Speaker identifies Himself in v. 11 as “the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last.” John turns to see who is speaking and sees “one like to a son of man” (other translations have “the Son of man”). Perhaps John is saying, "I saw someone who looked like Jesus." Then finally, in v. 17-18, the Speaker indeed identifies Himself as the One who is living and became dead and is now alive again forever.
Unitarians: I guess you identify the Alpha and Omega in v. 8 as Jehovah and v. 11 as Jesus? I guess you don’t see the term “the First and the Last” as a title equivalent to “the Alpha and Omega”? If so, you are definitely seeing something in the text that an ordinary reading doesn’t see beacuse of your bias.
It’s a title ascribed to the Almighty. I didn’t think it needed a more precise definition to be understood. What about, “the one who is and who was and who to come”? Does that need to be defined? I guess we could talk about a precise definition but I don’t think that will change my point. The Alpha/Omega is self-described as “the Almighty (1:8) AND the First/Last (22:13). The First/Last is self-described as the one who was dead and is alive forever more (1:18). Again, there are either 2 people who are the first and last OR Jesus is the Almighty.
Conclusion: Scripture declares YHWH is the First and the Last and besides Me there is no God/YHWH. Christ is YHWH the I Am He and there is no other besides YHWH declares the Lord.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
continued for the doubting unii's
Jesus is the Lord in Joel, Isaiah and Jeremiah
Joel 2:27-32
27 "Thus you will know that I am in the midst of Israel,
And that I am the Lord your God,
And there is no other;
And My people will never be put to shame.
28 " It will come about after this
That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
Your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions.
29 "Even on the male and female servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
30 "I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth,
Blood, fire and columns of smoke.
31 "The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood
Before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes.
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.
Rom 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Isa 45:21-24
Is it not I, the Lord?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A righteous God and a Savior;
There is none except Me.
22 " Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23 "I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
24 "They will say of Me, 'Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.'
Phil 2:9-11
For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Rom 14:10-12
For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For it is written,
" AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,
AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."
12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
1 Cor 2:8-9
the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory
Jeremiah 17:10 the Lord says
"I the LORD search the heart, I test the mind. Even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings"
In Revelation 2:23 Jesus says
"I am He who searches the minds and hearts and I will give to each one of you according to your works"
So if Jesus is not God why would he claim to do something in Revelation that Yahweh claimed in Jeremiah?
So is it Yahweh or Jesus who searches hearts and minds?
The only name that can possibly be above all names is the name of YHWH. Even Non trinitarians are forced to agree with this one due to the fact that their own theology acknowledges that YHWH is greater in nature than Jesus. This means that Jesus shares the personal name and authority of YHWH, making Him God as no one can be equal to God except God alone.
hope this helps !!!
Jesus is the Lord in Joel, Isaiah and Jeremiah
Joel 2:27-32
27 "Thus you will know that I am in the midst of Israel,
And that I am the Lord your God,
And there is no other;
And My people will never be put to shame.
28 " It will come about after this
That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
Your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions.
29 "Even on the male and female servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
30 "I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth,
Blood, fire and columns of smoke.
31 "The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood
Before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes.
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.
Rom 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Isa 45:21-24
Is it not I, the Lord?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A righteous God and a Savior;
There is none except Me.
22 " Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23 "I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
24 "They will say of Me, 'Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.'
Phil 2:9-11
For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Rom 14:10-12
For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For it is written,
" AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,
AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."
12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
1 Cor 2:8-9
the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory
Jeremiah 17:10 the Lord says
"I the LORD search the heart, I test the mind. Even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings"
In Revelation 2:23 Jesus says
"I am He who searches the minds and hearts and I will give to each one of you according to your works"
So if Jesus is not God why would he claim to do something in Revelation that Yahweh claimed in Jeremiah?
So is it Yahweh or Jesus who searches hearts and minds?
The only name that can possibly be above all names is the name of YHWH. Even Non trinitarians are forced to agree with this one due to the fact that their own theology acknowledges that YHWH is greater in nature than Jesus. This means that Jesus shares the personal name and authority of YHWH, making Him God as no one can be equal to God except God alone.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
and we now the Son who is God in the flesh demands all believers His complete allegiance as their Lord, Master, Sovereign, God, Redeemer, Savior etc....
One cannot be His disciples unless your love for Him is above all. The entire Bible is all about Him, the Gospel is all about Him.
And Christ says it’s all about Him, not the Father!!!
Luke 24:25-27
25 And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 " Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?" 27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.
John 5:39-40
39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
Luke 24:44-45
44Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
John 16:7-9
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me
John 16:13-14
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.
Conclusion: It’s all about Him from cover to cover because the Bible is all about God from cover to cover. Why anyone would deny this obvious truth is beyond me.
hope this helps !!!
You failed to address the facts
Sorry scripture refutes you and attributes to Christ acts that are stated to be concerned with Jehovah
He is called adonai - lord God, master
and
we see More than one person is termed YHWH
Zechariah 2:6–11 (LEB) — 6 “Woe! Woe! Flee from the land of the north,” declares Yahweh, “for I have scattered you like the four winds of the heavens,” declares Yahweh. 7 “Woe, Zion! Escape, you inhabitants of the daughter of Babylon!” 8 For thus said Yahweh of hosts, after glory he sent me against the nations plundering you: Truly, the one touching you is touching the apple of his eye. 9 “Yes, look! I am going to wave my hand against them, and they will become plunder for their servants, and you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent me. 10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for look, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” declares Yahweh. 11 “Many nations will join themselves to Yahweh on that day, and they will be my people, and I will dwell in your midst. And you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent me to you.
Further Jesus is shown
1 Corinthians 10:4 (LEB) — 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.
1 Corinthians 10:9 (LEB) — 9 nor put Christ to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by snakes,
Jude 5 (LEB) — 5 Now I want to remind you, although you know everything once and for all, that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, the second time destroyed those who did not believe.
to be the angel (messenger) of the lord who followed the Israelites in the dessert
Isaiah 63:9–10 (LEB) — 9 In all their distress, there was no distress, and the messenger of his presence saved them, in his love and compassion he himself redeemed them, and he lifted them up, and he supported them all the days of old. 10 But they were the ones who rebelled, and they grieved his Holy Spirit, so he became an enemy to them; he himself fought against them.
who is called YHWH
Exodus 23:20–21 (LEB) — 20 “ ‘Look, I am about to send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 21 Be attentive to him and listen to his voice; do not rebel against him, because he will not forgive your transgression, for my name is in him.
Exodus 13:21–22 (LEB) — 21 And Yahweh was going before them by day in a column of cloud to lead them on the way and by night in a column of fire to give light to them to go by day and night. 22 The column of cloud by day and the column of fire by night did not depart from before the people.
Eleazar
Member
He who does not love has not become acquainted with God [does not and never did know Him], for God is love.
9 In this the love of God was made manifest (displayed) where we are concerned: in that God sent His Son, the only begotten or unique [Son], into the world so that we might live through Him.
10 In this is love: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation (the atoning sacrifice) for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God loved us so [very much], we also ought to love one another.
1 John 4:8–11
9 In this the love of God was made manifest (displayed) where we are concerned: in that God sent His Son, the only begotten or unique [Son], into the world so that we might live through Him.
10 In this is love: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation (the atoning sacrifice) for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God loved us so [very much], we also ought to love one another.
1 John 4:8–11
Context is the enemy of Unitarianism, just as it is with other cults
Revelation 22:12–21 (KJV 1900) — 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
civic
Well-known member
Amen
It is so like Unitarianism to ignore scripture which is contrary to itAmen
Runningman
Well-known member
Yes, Jesus taught people to love YHWH more than all others.
Runningman
Well-known member
Try these where Jesus is obviously not YHWH.
Isaiah 9
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Isaiah 28
16So this is what the Lord GOD says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation;
the one who believes will never be shaken.
Isaiah 53
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Psalm 2
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psalm 110
1{A Psalm of David.} The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Joel 2
32And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD
will be saved;
for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
there will be deliverance, as the LORD has promised,
among the remnant called by the LORD.
Aeliana
Well-known member
Yes, that's correct; in the New Testament, Jesus essentially expanded the concept of the Shema by emphasizing the importance of not only loving God with all your heart, but also loving your neighbor as yourself, essentially adding the concept of "love for one's neighbor" to the core idea of the Shema as expressed in the first commandment.
Runningman
Well-known member
While it's true that is the first and greatest commandment, there is also a commandment that is very important. Jesus even said it is the first of all the commandments in the KJV. Some translations render this verse as it is the most important commandment. It is that the Lord God YHWH is one. Means YHWH is one person. I would note this means He is not two or three. YHWH is a single person referred to as God. That's the most important thing to Jesus. As Christians I believe what is most important to Jesus should be most important to us. God is the Father.
Mark 12 (KJV)
29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mark 12 (ESV)
29Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
John 17 (KJV)
3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Eleazar
Member
Right on!
Aeliana
Well-known member
It can be clearly demonstrated that the biblical basis of the Trinity is found from the book of Genesis to the book of Revelation. There is more than sufficient evidence from both Testaments to prove the multi-personal and triune nature of God to those who are willing to will the will of God.
If any man desires to do His will (God’s pleasure), he will know (have the needed illumination to recognize, and can tell for himself) whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking from Myself and of My own accord and on My own authority.
John 7:17.
If any man desires to do His will (God’s pleasure), he will know (have the needed illumination to recognize, and can tell for himself) whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking from Myself and of My own accord and on My own authority.
John 7:17.
In ignorance you assume if the persons are not the same they cannot be YHWH
but you totally ignored this
we see More than one person is termed YHWH
Zechariah 2:6–11 (LEB) — 6 “Woe! Woe! Flee from the land of the north,” declares Yahweh, “for I have scattered you like the four winds of the heavens,” declares Yahweh. 7 “Woe, Zion! Escape, you inhabitants of the daughter of Babylon!” 8 For thus said Yahweh of hosts, after glory he sent me against the nations plundering you: Truly, the one touching you is touching the apple of his eye. 9 “Yes, look! I am going to wave my hand against them, and they will become plunder for their servants, and you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent me. 10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for look, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” declares Yahweh. 11 “Many nations will join themselves to Yahweh on that day, and they will be my people, and I will dwell in your midst. And you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent me to you.
And that jesus is stated to be the one in the dessert who is called the messenger of God and YWWH
Further Jesus is shown
1 Corinthians 10:4 (LEB) — 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.
1 Corinthians 10:9 (LEB) — 9 nor put Christ to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by snakes,
Jude 5 (LEB) — 5 Now I want to remind you, although you know everything once and for all, that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, the second time destroyed those who did not believe.
to be the angel (messenger) of the lord who followed the Israelites in the dessert
Isaiah 63:9–10 (LEB) — 9 In all their distress, there was no distress, and the messenger of his presence saved them, in his love and compassion he himself redeemed them, and he lifted them up, and he supported them all the days of old. 10 But they were the ones who rebelled, and they grieved his Holy Spirit, so he became an enemy to them; he himself fought against them.
who is called YHWH
Exodus 23:20–21 (LEB) — 20 “ ‘Look, I am about to send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 21 Be attentive to him and listen to his voice; do not rebel against him, because he will not forgive your transgression, for my name is in him.
Exodus 13:21–22 (LEB) — 21 And Yahweh was going before them by day in a column of cloud to lead them on the way and by night in a column of fire to give light to them to go by day and night. 22 The column of cloud by day and the column of fire by night did not depart from before the people.
brightfame52
Well-known member
God is Love, bt does that mean He loves everyone ? Does He love the devil and his angels ? Does He love the rejected workers of iniquity ? Matt 7:23
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Ps 5:5
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Ps 11:5-6
5 The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.
The Truth is Gods Love is limited to them that in reciprocation of His Love to them, they shall be caused to love Him 1 Jn 4:19
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
The we who love God are the ones, the us whom God Loves
Those people who love God is not a larger group than those whom God loves
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Ps 5:5
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Ps 11:5-6
5 The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.
The Truth is Gods Love is limited to them that in reciprocation of His Love to them, they shall be caused to love Him 1 Jn 4:19
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
The we who love God are the ones, the us whom God Loves
Those people who love God is not a larger group than those whom God loves
civic
Well-known member
Jesus dies for everyone and loves all mankind.
Jesus died for all
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
hope this helps !!!
