The Trinity The Touchstone of Truth

DavidTree said:
ALONE to ELOHIM is FATHER/WORD/HOLY SPIRIT for THEY are ONE
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David, can you read? Listen, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." I, I, I, is a single Person. My God.

Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." me is ONE PERSON.

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:"

I and NONE ELSE ....... "None else" is a phrase used in written English to emphasize that there are no other possibilities or options.

My God, people need to read definitions.

101G
 
Peterlag said:
If I told those in another country who were being held against their will that the Untied State President will come and save you. That would not mean Trump personally would be going to that country to rescue them.
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LOL, God came, LISTEN CLOSLEY, Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." Matthew 1:21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." Matthew 1:22 "Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying," Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

well now the president came.... (smile), as well as God, so, try again..... :D

your president want come, but God did. see your president is a man, men LIE, God is not a man that he should LIE. ..... this is too easy.

101G.
 
101G said:
well, go back to HEAD START, which is the first principle of the oracle of God. Let 101G break it down in 4th. grade style, just for you. Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

101G's first question to you, "When was this revelation given? a week before? a month in advance, or a year, WHEN? did the bible say when? see, you assume it was two person standing next to each other.

101G second question, was the wetter handed from one person to another, or was it sent by carrier? again, you assume in your mind that two persons standing next to each other.

no matter the time, or the method used, you believe the term God means Father, the God of the OT, and the other person Jesus the receiver. is this not what you assume? yes, ASSUMED.

now the truth .... 4th. grade style. your first mistake is this the term "God" consist .... according to you 3/three person. so right off the bat you ERROR.. but sticking with your assumption that "God" here is the Father lets see who sent his angel to John and then we will see if it's two person in Revelation 1:1.


FACT #1. someone sent ... "HIS" .... angel to John correct. and the angel who was sent tells us who sent him. scripture, Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done." The Lord God of the holy prophets? yes, the God of the OT. whom you say is the Father, for you're not alone in that belief. even the J.W. put it in print by saying the Lord God is Jehovah who sent his angel. lets see who sent his angel? scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." so, it's the Lord Jesus who is the Lord God of the OT, the GOD of the holy prophets.

Fact #2. Knowing that the Lord God is JESUS, he also said, Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." the first and the Last is the God of the OT. scripture, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." Bingo, the same one person.

now, a 4th grader will understand this.

101G.
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When Jesus ascended back to heaven, he sat at Gods right hand= 2 separate beings.
Jehovah spoke the words at Rev 22:13--But Jesus was the first and last in other things.
 
Peterlag said:
If I told those in another country who were being held against their will that the Untied State President will come and save you. That would not mean Trump personally would be going to that country to rescue them.
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Unless of course God sent His ONLY Begotten SON
 
101G said:
David, can you read? Listen, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." I, I, I, is a single Person. My God.

Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." me is ONE PERSON.

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:"

I and NONE ELSE ....... "None else" is a phrase used in written English to emphasize that there are no other possibilities or options.

My God, people need to read definitions.

101G
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@101G = Can you READ???

Genesis 1:26 - Elohim(PLURAL) Said, let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness = PLURAL = 3

And since we KNOW that Elohim created all things ALONE, then THEIR PLURALITY does NOT include angels.

Which means Elohim FATHER Elohim WORD Elohim HOLY SPIRIT are ONE
 
Peterlag said:
There's no thinking with trinity folks because they already bought a concept that makes no sense and then they go to the Bible to try to find data to support what they already believe. The trinity is not biblical. It's only what's in their mind. At any time when they cannot deal with the logic is when they say well, anything is possible with God, or God did not mean for us to fully understand because we are only human, or God emptied Himself of is God stuff and He got it back later. There's no Trinity. The verses that are used to try to teach it are all taken out of context, or not understood how the words were used in the culture they were written in, or from a bad translation. It's an evil Catholic concept that was sold to the world mostly by the power of the sword. Thomas is a great example. The guy saw the resurrected Christ standing in front of him which had to send him in a mild state of shock and he yelled out something like my Lord and my God who did this. The trinity no matter how many times you tell them this come back with no he called him God.
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The fact that the Trinity isn't revealed or explained in the Bible is probably the greatest weakness of Trinitarianism. It requires arguments to explain and, most importantly, it requires convincing people. No easy feat.

While on the other hand, Unitarianism is super easy and intuitive to understand. It doesn't require any indoctrination because it uses what people already know. A Son of God isn't God, sons are begotten, God isn't more than one person, God can't die, God didn't sacrifice Himself to Himself to appease Himself for the transgressions against the law He already knew no one could follow. To many absurdities in Trinity to follow.
 
DavidTree said:
I waited patiently for the Lord; = Isaiah 7:14 , Isa 40:1-5 , Luke 1:26-37
And He inclined to me,
And heard my cry.
2He also brought me up out of a horrible pit,
Out of the miry clay,
And set my feet upon a rock, = Psalm 18:31 , 1 Corinthians 10:4
And established my steps.
3He has put a new song in my mouth—
Praise to our God;
Many will see it and fear,
And will trust in the Lord.
4Blessed is that man who makes the Lord his trust, = John 3:1-21
And does not respect the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.
5Many, O Lord my God, are Your wonderful works = John 1:3
Which You have done;
And Your thoughts toward us
Cannot be recounted to You in order;
If I would declare and speak of them, = John 21:25
They are more than can be numbered.
6Sacrifice and offering You did not desire;
My ears You have opened.
Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require.
7Then I said, “Behold, I come; = the Word became flesh = Hebrews 10:5
In the scroll of the book it is written of me.
8I delight to do Your will, O my God, = GOSPEL
And Your law is within my heart.” = YAHshua
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There are a lot of verses where YHWH and the prophesied Messiah are not the same person. This isn't all of them.
Isaiah 42
1Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
3A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

Psalm 45
6Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
7Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Isaiah 9
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Daniel 7
13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Micah 5
2But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
4And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.
 
Runningman said:
The fact that the Trinity isn't revealed or explained in the Bible is probably the greatest weakness of Trinitarianism. It requires arguments to explain and, most importantly, it requires convincing people. No easy feat.

While on the other hand, Unitarianism is super easy and intuitive to understand. It doesn't require any indoctrination because it uses what people already know. A Son of God isn't God, sons are begotten, God isn't more than one person, God can't die, God didn't sacrifice Himself to Himself to appease Himself for the transgressions against the law He already knew no one could follow. To many absurdities in Trinity to follow.
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Trinitarian doctrine tries to explain the verses that say Jesus was a man by saying that he was a man, but he was also 100% God at the same time. But there are problems with that such as there is no single verse that says Jesus was both God and man and that's why the God-man doctrine is built from many verses.
 
Peterlag said:
Trinitarian doctrine tries to explain the verses that say Jesus was a man by saying that he was a man, but he was also 100% God at the same time. But there are problems with that such as there is no single verse that says Jesus was both God and man and that's why the God-man doctrine is built from many verses.
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Cognitive bias. They begin with a philosophy about who they believe God is and then impose it on the Bible. It's not completely uncommon and does happen outside of religion, too, but the Muslims do something similar with Jesus. They call Jesus a Muslim because the Quaran talks about him and they will impose that belief on him when they read the Bible. I think at some point it's just that people have their beliefs and they are going to stick with it regardless of what the Bible or anyone says. I think maybe it might be good to help them recognize sola scriptura as authoritative rather than being liberal with extra-Biblical doctrines, creeds, and other teachings.
 
Runningman said:
There are a lot of verses where YHWH and the prophesied Messiah are not the same person. This isn't all of them.
Isaiah 42
1Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
3A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

Psalm 45
6Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
7Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Isaiah 9
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Daniel 7
13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Micah 5
2But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
4And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.
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There is DISTICTION in Scripture per YHWH coming to earth as a man
 
Keiw1 said:
When Jesus ascended back to heaven, he sat at Gods right hand= 2 separate beings.
Jehovah spoke the words at Rev 22:13--But Jesus was the first and last in other things.
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GINOLJC, to all.
Special K, not two beings, one being/Spirit in an ECHAD of himself as the Equal Share. if you say two being, then you have two Gods. hello.

and two, God's right hand is the Lord Jesus, he himself. listen, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

his ... "OWN ARM" ... is him... hello. and sitting down on the right hand simply means in POWER, that's all. see, there is ONLY "ONE" THRONE, and that is God's POWER. and as High Priest, ....... sitting it shows as High Priest he at rest from his work.

the First and the Last indicate CREATOR/Maker ="FIRST", title Father. and REDEEMER/SAVIOUR = "LAST".... and there is NO OTHER, First and LAST.

SO, YOU CAN TRY AGAIN, BUT THE SCRIPTURES ARE NOT CHANGING.

'101G.
 
DavidTree said:
Genesis 1:26 - Elohim(PLURAL) Said, let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness = PLURAL = 3
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NO it do not. Listen to the very next verse, Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.". he and his is a single person. and on top of that, the Lord Jesus who is God said only ONE PERSON made man male and female in the beginning. do the Lord Jesus LIE? no. listen and LEARN, Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?" Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,"

Dave, Dave, ..... Dave, can the Lord Jesus/God .... LIE? NO. now unless you want to call the Lord Jesus a Lier, then you better go back to Genesis 1:26 and find out who is the US and and OUR. because the Lord Jesus said, "Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," he is one or a single person, and just killed any three, person in making Man male and female.

Dave, 101G know who the us AND THE our is mention at Genesis 1:26 is. we suggest you go to God and Find out who.

again, don't argue with 101G, argue with God. please find out who is the US and the OUR at Genesis 1:26, and remember Genesis 1:26. you need to KNOW and UNDERSTAND how God when from a US and OUR in verse 26 to a He and His in the very next verse. if you don't know, go to God and find out. else you will be in disobedience to the Faith.

101G.
 
To all.
addressing the OP, there is no trinity, meaning no TRUTH in it. the Lord Jesus never said he was a trinity no where in the BIBLE. nor did the apostles, or disciple teach such. God is a plurality, but not a trinity. and this plurality is in the EQUAL SHARE of himself in the H259 ECHAD of ONE, hence the plurality of "ONE"

this EQUAL SHARE is understood in ONE PERSON, and the ONLY "ONE" Person, JESUS, who is the Holy Spirit. and he, JESUS, the Holy Spirit hold the titles in this EQUAL SHARE... "Father/LORD, and Son/Lord. now that's the TRUTH.

101G
 
101G said:
GINOLJC, to all.
Special K, not two beings, one being/Spirit in an ECHAD of himself as the Equal Share. if you say two being, then you have two Gods. hello.

and two, God's right hand is the Lord Jesus, he himself. listen, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

his ... "OWN ARM" ... is him... hello. and sitting down on the right hand simply means in POWER, that's all. see, there is ONLY "ONE" THRONE, and that is God's POWER. and as High Priest, ....... sitting it shows as High Priest he at rest from his work.

the First and the Last indicate CREATOR/Maker ="FIRST", title Father. and REDEEMER/SAVIOUR = "LAST".... and there is NO OTHER, First and LAST.

SO, YOU CAN TRY AGAIN, BUT THE SCRIPTURES ARE NOT CHANGING.

'101G.
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