Peterlag
Well-known member
I would not use the word equal. Nobody gets to God unless they go through the son.
The Trinity and the Incarnation
- Thread starter Rory Wilson
- Start date
Peterlag
Well-known member
None of your quoted Scripture above tells me why so many people love the trinity so much.
The reason you don't have a teaching on the trinity is because there is none. All you post are bits and pieces of words and half verses and all taken out of context or from bad translations or not understanding how the words were used at the time they were written. Thomas is a great example...
Jesus is God's messenger/agent/representative (Jewish Law of agency - shaliah). We can clearly see this Jewish principle through the entire gospel of John. Jesus was sent by God as His messenger and therefore Jesus was God’s representative on earth. God gave Jesus the right and authority to act in His name and that is why Jesus declared that whoever receives him automatically receives God the Father, that whoever sees him sees the Father, that whoever believes in him actually believes in the Father who sent him and whoever rejects him rejects the Father who sent him (John 12:44-45; 14:7; 1 John 2:23).
It's therefore true that whoever sees the Son sees God the Father. However, there is another dimension to this mutual relationship between them. In the New Testament we read that Jesus as the Son of God is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15) who is the radiance of his glory and the express image of his nature (Hebrews 1:3). That in the face of Jesus Christ the glory of God can be seen (2 Corinthians 4:6), that the Son came to reveal and show us God the Father who is spirit and whom no one has ever seen (John 1:18), and therefore it's in him that we can know God the Father and that he is the only "way" to the Father, that in his human body dwells the Father himself... "all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9) who acts through him. Therefore, it makes perfect sense that whoever sees and believes in the Son automatically sees and believes in God the Father.
This was also understood by the apostle Thomas (John 20:28 compared with John 14:5-9) who finally realized and believed that in Jesus he saw the one true God... the Father, who dwelled in him and He is doing everything through His Son (including his resurrection). It's also our duty to realize that Jesus Christ is the visible image of the (otherwise) invisible God and that we can know the one true God and reach Him only through His Son Jesus Christ.
Indeed when you deny the essence of Christianity, you have nothing left. We are hoping you would not propagate the destruction of scripture behind your beliefs. People bring up pertinent scriptures and your just have half-baked eisegesis behind your refutations. You appear just to weasel around passages like John 1 based on a presumption that God could not send his Son to be incarnate among humanity. There is not much more to be said to get you back to the true faith. You also have a philosophical preference that God should spell out the divinity of his Son in a way that you could comprehend it. Your preferences do not determine doctrine.
All these aspects of Christ's divinity have been argued and well-settled for maybe 1600 or 1700 years. The first impropriety is to find issue with people who recognize this doctrine, as if people could not be justified in Christ until you came around. The second is that someone who wants to make an argument against the Trinitarian essence of God must form a rather comprehensive argument against God's nature if he wants to be convincing. No one has come around and done that.
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Dizerner
Well-known member
Certainly, the one truth I would not give up at all costs, is that Christ Jesus suffered the penalty of my sins and rose again to grant me eternal life.
If someone is confused about a doctrine, just don't give up that one—for anything—and keep your faith all in Christ.
I'm definitely willing to receive new truth, but I have already received divine revelation on the Trinity, so I can't well deny it.
Peterlag
Well-known member
May I ask what is divine revelation on the trinity?
Peterlag
Well-known member
I'm not looking to convince as much as I'm just amazed on how so many can base their whole religious concept on something that is not real. Something that is just a man made Pagan Catholic belief and yet believed by so many only because the churches never taught their people how to read and understand the Bible.
You have to make a reasonable case for your denial of the Trinune nature of God if you think you have found a new doctrine to share. So far you have just shared eisegetical interpretations of passages pointing out the deity of Christ. You also seem to promote a weird spiritism doctrine, but I have not explored much of that. It is pretty characteristic that one espouses lots of weird doctrines after discarding central aspects of scripture, so your additional ideas are not a surprise.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Everything that I believe the whole New Testament speaks about concerning the son of God, the Messiah to Israel, and the now resurrected Lord and Christ to the Christian is what you do not believe.
Sometimes you sound like a Christian. Kinda a surprise. It is often said the debate is not about the surface words but about the meaning assumed behind those words. You have actually given me a compliment by noting I do not hold to the unusual beliefs that you promote. Your different beliefs may not be as extensive as you have given in your last remark.
Peterlag
Well-known member
I know that all of you are going to be in shock when you get to heaven assuming all of you make it. I figure you're going to say to those running the place who might be guys like me... but what about John 1:1 and Thomas?
it is the sign of a cult who, while being small and filled with new doctrines, think it has a special doctrine to earn its way to heaven to the exclusion of the majority groups that have solid doctrine.
Peterlag
Well-known member
The majority have never been correct in this field. Never. The majority killed Jesus and the Apostles and the Prophets and rule the world today as Catholics and Muslims. And believing the same thing the Catholics believe dies not put you in good company.
we can add that to your list of odd doctrines. I do not think Jesus is going to die again, so your worries are excessive.
Peterlag
Well-known member
All throughout history the good guys were never with the majority concerning the truth of God's Word. Never. And that included killing Jesus.
uh. maybe you do not realize that Christ came to give us Christians liberty and continuity in him. Indeed people have hated God and therefore hung his incarnate body on the cross, but that killing was a specific situation in history in the Jewish context. You could study up on that context.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Apostles and Prophets along with great scholars were tortured and killed all though out history including burning people alive by the Catholics whose doctrine you follow.
You continue on your JW anachronistic focus on Roman Catholics. That does not make a convincing argument about anything. It just suggests the source of your modern doctrines.
Peterlag
Well-known member
I'm not with the JW and don't know anything about them. What I do know is few find the truth and if you're with the majority. Well, You might want to take a good long look at that.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
So you will promote a doctrine that says your little clan has the only truths and that everyone else is wrong. That is narrow indeed.
MTMattie
Well-known member
He reminds me more and more of the SDAs. Equally AS NARROW.
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