The Trinity and the Incarnation

[Peterlag]

So you treat the Son equally with the Fatter in all things ?

I would not use the word equal. Nobody gets to God unless they go through the son.

 

[Peterlag]

Jesus sending the Holy Spirit

Jesus forgiving sin of those who haven't directly offended him.

Jesus accepting worship.

Jesus saying He is the Alpha and Omega.

Jesus saying He saw Phillip when Phillip was no where near Jesus.

Jesus saying He is the 'I AM' to the Pharisees.

Jesus giving eternal life to those who believe in Him.

I could go on and on..but there have been enough great minds who believe Jesus is God for you to read from.

Peace.

None of your quoted Scripture above tells me why so many people love the trinity so much.

The reason you don't have a teaching on the trinity is because there is none. All you post are bits and pieces of words and half verses and all taken out of context or from bad translations or not understanding how the words were used at the time they were written. Thomas is a great example...

Jesus is God's messenger/agent/representative (Jewish Law of agency - shaliah). We can clearly see this Jewish principle through the entire gospel of John. Jesus was sent by God as His messenger and therefore Jesus was God’s representative on earth. God gave Jesus the right and authority to act in His name and that is why Jesus declared that whoever receives him automatically receives God the Father, that whoever sees him sees the Father, that whoever believes in him actually believes in the Father who sent him and whoever rejects him rejects the Father who sent him (John 12:44-45; 14:7; 1 John 2:23).

It's therefore true that whoever sees the Son sees God the Father. However, there is another dimension to this mutual relationship between them. In the New Testament we read that Jesus as the Son of God is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15) who is the radiance of his glory and the express image of his nature (Hebrews 1:3). That in the face of Jesus Christ the glory of God can be seen (2 Corinthians 4:6), that the Son came to reveal and show us God the Father who is spirit and whom no one has ever seen (John 1:18), and therefore it's in him that we can know God the Father and that he is the only "way" to the Father, that in his human body dwells the Father himself... "all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9) who acts through him. Therefore, it makes perfect sense that whoever sees and believes in the Son automatically sees and believes in God the Father.

This was also understood by the apostle Thomas (John 20:28 compared with John 14:5-9) who finally realized and believed that in Jesus he saw the one true God... the Father, who dwelled in him and He is doing everything through His Son (including his resurrection). It's also our duty to realize that Jesus Christ is the visible image of the (otherwise) invisible God and that we can know the one true God and reach Him only through His Son Jesus Christ.

 

[mikesw]

I have a theory that it's because your whole religious belief system is based on the trinity and if I was able to strip you of it. Then you would be left with nothing.

Indeed when you deny the essence of Christianity, you have nothing left. We are hoping you would not propagate the destruction of scripture behind your beliefs. People bring up pertinent scriptures and your just have half-baked eisegesis behind your refutations. You appear just to weasel around passages like John 1 based on a presumption that God could not send his Son to be incarnate among humanity. There is not much more to be said to get you back to the true faith. You also have a philosophical preference that God should spell out the divinity of his Son in a way that you could comprehend it. Your preferences do not determine doctrine.
All these aspects of Christ's divinity have been argued and well-settled for maybe 1600 or 1700 years. The first impropriety is to find issue with people who recognize this doctrine, as if people could not be justified in Christ until you came around. The second is that someone who wants to make an argument against the Trinitarian essence of God must form a rather comprehensive argument against God's nature if he wants to be convincing. No one has come around and done that.

 

[Dizerner]

I have a theory that it's because your whole religious belief system is based on the trinity and if I was able to strip you of it. Then you would be left with nothing.

Certainly, the one truth I would not give up at all costs, is that Christ Jesus suffered the penalty of my sins and rose again to grant me eternal life.

If someone is confused about a doctrine, just don't give up that one—for anything—and keep your faith all in Christ.

I'm definitely willing to receive new truth, but I have already received divine revelation on the Trinity, so I can't well deny it.

 

[Peterlag]

Certainly, the one truth I would not give up at all costs, is that Christ Jesus suffered the penalty of my sins and rose again to grant me eternal life.

If someone is confused about a doctrine, just don't give up that one—for anything—and keep your faith all in Christ.

I'm definitely willing to receive new truth, but I have already received divine revelation on the Trinity, so I can't well deny it.

May I ask what is divine revelation on the trinity?

 

[Peterlag]

Indeed when you deny the essence of Christianity, you have nothing left. We are hoping you would not propagate the destruction of scripture behind your beliefs. People bring up pertinent scriptures and your just have half-baked eisegesis behind your refutations. You appear just to weasel around passages like John 1 based on a presumption that God could not send his Son to be incarnate among humanity. There is not much more to be said to get you back to the true faith. You also have a philosophical preference that God should spell out the divinity of his Son in a way that you could comprehend it. Your preferences do not determine doctrine.
All these aspects of Christ's divinity have been argued and well-settled for maybe 1600 or 1700 years. The first impropriety is to find issue with people who recognize this doctrine, as if people could not be justified in Christ until you came around. The second is that someone who wants to make an argument against the Trinitarian essence of God must form a rather comprehensive argument against God's nature if he wants to be convincing. No one has come around and done that.

I'm not looking to convince as much as I'm just amazed on how so many can base their whole religious concept on something that is not real. Something that is just a man made Pagan Catholic belief and yet believed by so many only because the churches never taught their people how to read and understand the Bible.

 

[mikesw]

I'm not looking to convince as much as I'm just amazed on how so many can base their whole religious concept on something that is not real. Something that is just a man made Pagan Catholic belief and yet believed by so many only because the churches never taught their people how to read and understand the Bible.

You have to make a reasonable case for your denial of the Trinune nature of God if you think you have found a new doctrine to share. So far you have just shared eisegetical interpretations of passages pointing out the deity of Christ. You also seem to promote a weird spiritism doctrine, but I have not explored much of that. It is pretty characteristic that one espouses lots of weird doctrines after discarding central aspects of scripture, so your additional ideas are not a surprise.

 

[Peterlag]

You have to make a reasonable case for your denial of the Trinune nature of God if you think you have found a new doctrine to share. So far you have just shared eisegetical interpretations of passages pointing out the deity of Christ. You also seem to promote a weird spiritism doctrine, but I have not explored much of that. It is pretty characteristic that one espouses lots of weird doctrines after discarding central aspects of scripture, so your additional ideas are not a surprise.

Everything that I believe the whole New Testament speaks about concerning the son of God, the Messiah to Israel, and the now resurrected Lord and Christ to the Christian is what you do not believe.

 

[mikesw]

Everything that I believe the whole New Testament speaks about concerning the son of God, the Messiah to Israel, and the now resurrected Lord and Christ to the Christian is what you do not believe.

Sometimes you sound like a Christian. Kinda a surprise. It is often said the debate is not about the surface words but about the meaning assumed behind those words. You have actually given me a compliment by noting I do not hold to the unusual beliefs that you promote. Your different beliefs may not be as extensive as you have given in your last remark.

 

[Peterlag]

Sometimes you sound like a Christian. Kinda a surprise. It is often said the debate is not about the surface words but about the meaning assumed behind those words. You have actually given me a compliment by noting I do not hold to the unusual beliefs that you promote. Your different beliefs may not be as extensive as you have given in your last remark.

I know that all of you are going to be in shock when you get to heaven assuming all of you make it. I figure you're going to say to those running the place who might be guys like me... but what about John 1:1 and Thomas?

 

[mikesw]

I know that all of you are going to be in shock when you get to heaven assuming all of you make it. I figure you're going to say to those running the place who might be guys like me... but what about John 1:1 and Thomas?

it is the sign of a cult who, while being small and filled with new doctrines, think it has a special doctrine to earn its way to heaven to the exclusion of the majority groups that have solid doctrine.

 

[Peterlag]

it is the sign of a cult who, while being small and filled with new doctrines, think it has a special doctrine to earn its way to heaven to the exclusion of the majority groups that have solid doctrine.

The majority have never been correct in this field. Never. The majority killed Jesus and the Apostles and the Prophets and rule the world today as Catholics and Muslims. And believing the same thing the Catholics believe dies not put you in good company.