No matter how many times you repeat the same stuff, it is no more convincing than the first time you presented your confusion.
The Trinity and the Incarnation
- Thread starter Rory Wilson
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dwight92070
Well-known member
So Peterlag, what church do you attend or are a part of?
Do you worship Jesus, or not?
Do you worship Jesus, or not?
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dwight92070
Well-known member
Do you worship Jesus or not?
Peterlag
Well-known member
Here's John 5:23 on that...
John 5:23
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Peterlag
Well-known member
It does not have to be convincing. It's the truth. Jesus is not God. To think he is is just believing a lie. What's sad is folks base their whole religion on this lie.
Peterlag
Well-known member
The reason you don't have a teaching on the trinity is because there is none. All you post are bits and pieces of words and half verses and all taken out of context or from bad translations or not understanding how the words were used at the time they were written. Thomas is a great example...
Jesus is God's messenger/agent/representative (Jewish Law of agency - shaliah). We can clearly see this Jewish principle through the entire gospel of John. Jesus was sent by God (the Father) as God's messenger. Jesus was God’s representative on earth. God gave Jesus the right and authority to act in His name. And that is why Jesus declared that whoever receives him automatically receives God the Father, that whoever sees him sees the Father, that whoever believes in him actually believes in the Father who sent him and conversely, whoever rejects him rejects the Father who sent him (John 12:44-45; 14:7; 1 John 2:23).
It's therefore true that whoever sees the Son sees God the Father. However, there is another dimension to this mutual relationship between them. In the NT we read that Jesus as the Son of God is the image of the invisible God (Col. 1:15), he is the radiance of his glory and the express image of his nature/person (Hebrews 1:3), that in the face of Jesus Christ the glory of God can be seen (2 Cor. 4:6), that the Son came to reveal and show us God the Father (who is spirit and whom no one has ever seen - John 1:18), and therefore that it's in him that we can know God the Father and that he is the only "way" to the Father, that in his human body dwells the Father himself (Col. 2:9 - "all the fullness of the Godhead bodily") who acts through him. Therefore, it makes perfect sense that whoever sees and believes in the Son automatically sees and believes in God the Father.
This was also understood by the apostle Thomas (John 20:28 compared with John 14:5-9) who finally realized and believed that in Jesus he saw the one true God - the Father, who dwells in him and He is doing everything through His Son (including his resurrection). It's also our duty to realize that Jesus Christ is the visible image of the (otherwise) invisible God and that we can know the one true God - the Father and reach him only through His Son Jesus Christ, as the only way leading to God.
Jesus is God's messenger/agent/representative (Jewish Law of agency - shaliah). We can clearly see this Jewish principle through the entire gospel of John. Jesus was sent by God (the Father) as God's messenger. Jesus was God’s representative on earth. God gave Jesus the right and authority to act in His name. And that is why Jesus declared that whoever receives him automatically receives God the Father, that whoever sees him sees the Father, that whoever believes in him actually believes in the Father who sent him and conversely, whoever rejects him rejects the Father who sent him (John 12:44-45; 14:7; 1 John 2:23).
It's therefore true that whoever sees the Son sees God the Father. However, there is another dimension to this mutual relationship between them. In the NT we read that Jesus as the Son of God is the image of the invisible God (Col. 1:15), he is the radiance of his glory and the express image of his nature/person (Hebrews 1:3), that in the face of Jesus Christ the glory of God can be seen (2 Cor. 4:6), that the Son came to reveal and show us God the Father (who is spirit and whom no one has ever seen - John 1:18), and therefore that it's in him that we can know God the Father and that he is the only "way" to the Father, that in his human body dwells the Father himself (Col. 2:9 - "all the fullness of the Godhead bodily") who acts through him. Therefore, it makes perfect sense that whoever sees and believes in the Son automatically sees and believes in God the Father.
This was also understood by the apostle Thomas (John 20:28 compared with John 14:5-9) who finally realized and believed that in Jesus he saw the one true God - the Father, who dwells in him and He is doing everything through His Son (including his resurrection). It's also our duty to realize that Jesus Christ is the visible image of the (otherwise) invisible God and that we can know the one true God - the Father and reach him only through His Son Jesus Christ, as the only way leading to God.
No wonder you fell for your denial of Christ. You do not need something to be convincing. You will go with your denial despite it not comporting with the full testimony of scripture.
civic
Well-known member
So you do not honor the Son, good to know. If you truly honored the Son the Be would receive from you the same honor, glory , power, praise, worship you give to the Father.
Jesus as God's messenger ...with the concept of agency..
Means the agent is 'as the man themself'
The agent's message is as if it is coming from the maker of the message.
This does not reduce Jesus' deity..but reinforces it.
Also..what being can send the Holy Spirit..and not be fully God? Because Jesus did that.
Peterlag
Well-known member
There has to be a reason why so many of you love believing in the trinity. And yet nobody will tell me.
Peterlag
Well-known member
How do you get I don't honor the son out of me posting...
John 5:23
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Peterlag
Well-known member
There has to be a reason why so many of you love believing in the trinity. And yet nobody will tell me.
Jesus sending the Holy Spirit
Jesus forgiving sin of those who haven't directly offended him.
Jesus accepting worship.
Jesus saying He is the Alpha and Omega.
Jesus saying He saw Phillip when Phillip was no where near Jesus.
Jesus saying He is the 'I AM' to the Pharisees.
Jesus giving eternal life to those who believe in Him.
I could go on and on..but there have been enough great minds who believe Jesus is God for you to read from.
Peace.
civic
Well-known member
So you treat the Son equally with the Fatter in all things ?
civic
Well-known member
Its because in the scriptures we see that God has revealed there are more than just the Father who is identified as God which includes the Son and the Holy Spirit.
I'm fine with saying God is Plural in Persons, not singular.
hope this helps !!!
MTMattie
Well-known member
It is because we love the Trinity with all our hearts minds and spirits.
I cannot explain the love i feel any more then I think you could explain the love you feel for your wife, now that you are one.
But getting away from any NT references are to the assorted things each part does or has done since Jesus walked this earth,
and avoiding an in-depth debate on whether or not you believe you are a tripartite person... (meaning your person)
You do realize, do you not, that a proper reference to God is Elohim?
Elohim is a Hebrew word that denotes “God” or “god.” It is one of the most common names for God in the Old Testament, starting in the very first verse: “In the beginning [Elohim] created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). The name Elohim occurs over 2,500 times in the Tanakh.
For definition only and not a sales pitch...
Interestingly, the word Elohim is grammatically plural rather than singular (the -im suffix in Hebrew indicates the plural form). The singular form of Elohim is probably Eloah. What are we to make of the plural? Does the plural form of Elohim imply polytheism? No, the Torah makes clear that God is one (Deuteronomy 6:4). Polytheism is expressly forbidden in the Old Testament.
What about Trinitarianism? Does the fact that Elohim is plural suggest the triune nature of God? It is best to understand the word construction as a plural of majesty; that is, writing “Elohim” is a stylistic way of emphasizing greatness, power, and prestige. With that said, and in light of the overall teaching of the Bible, the plural form of Elohim certainly allows for the further revelation of God’s triune nature; the Old Testament hints at the Trinity in order to prepare people for the Messiah who would be much more than a human prophet. When Jesus appeared, He more fully revealed mysteries hinted at in the Old Testament. At Jesus’ baptism we have all three Persons of Elohim present: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:16–17).
NOW... I know you will never be convinced of the Trinity, however, God was referred to as plural.
I have no reason to doubt what I had always heard, been taught, believed and understood was false.
There are enough references throughout the bible to not sway me from my beliefs....
And while the term may not appear in the bible... reminding you that bible does not appear there either...
I have no reason to doubt, therefore I wont.... And I shall continue to love the Trinity for they are the reason I can be here today explaining myself.
haha. He who has ears to hear
Peterlag
Well-known member
I have a theory that it's because your whole religious belief system is based on the trinity and if I was able to strip you of it. Then you would be left with nothing.
Peterlag
Well-known member
It is because we love the Trinity with all our hearts minds and spirits.
I have no reason to doubt what I had always heard, been taught, believed and understood was false.
I never had anyone tell me this. What you wrote above. I never believed in the trinity so I don't know why you love it so. Other than it's what you were taught.
Peterlag
Well-known member
No that does not help. That I hear a lot. They say because the Bible says so. I know the Bible does not teach it so that can't be the reason. Someone just said it's because they love the trinity. Now that is so far the best answer I have gotten.
