God is Love

civic

Well-known member
A unitarian god cannot know or experience love as a solitary person. That god is incapable of love for the scriptures declare that God is love. It is impossible for that god to love for there was nothing to love before creation. This god would need created beings to love him out of something lacking within his very nature. For someone to love there must be another to share in that love.


God is love because He loves within His own nature. God could not love if He was only one person. God would be contradicting Himself if He was not self sufficient. God is Love means that He has this ability to love within Himself. This is only possible if He is a tri-personal God whom the scriptures declare to be The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. That is impossible. It is an oxymoron.

The only viable answer to Gods love and that He is love is for God to be Triune in nature which would explain why and how God is love. A false god who is only a solitary person cannot know what love is as there is no one to love. That god is void of love by nature. The only viable answer to Gods love and that He is love is for God to be Triune in nature which would explain why and how God is love.

God is a personal, relational being by His very essence or nature. There are roles within the Godhead that have to do with the tri-personal nature of His being. The Father sends the Son, The Son submits to the Father. The Holy Spirit speaks of and honors the Father and the Son. Jesus said I and the Father are one. We clearly see the relationship of the Triune Godhead in the 14th-16th chapters of John.

Now it is very interesting that when we begin with God(Trinity) we see that He has designed not only man, but the family and the Church to represent and reflect His very own nature. God has designed this order and is clearly seen back in Genesis 1-2.

When God created the first 6 days He declared everything "was good". We read the only time in creation where God said otherwise was when He created man (who was made in His very own image). He used the plural form by saying LET US make man in OUR image after OUR likeness.

But God did not stop there. He said it was NOT GOOD for man to be alone. Why did God say this ? Man was created to be a relational being just like God (trinity). God created woman so that man would not be alone as God is not alone. The two would become ONE just as the Father and the Son are ONE.

Man was to procreate and have a family. Within the family unit Man is the head of the woman. The woman submits to the man. The Son submits to the Father. The Holy Spirit honors both the Father and the Son. The children are to honor their Mother and their Father. This reflects the very nature of God.

Now the same is true of the Church. Christ is the Head of the body. The body consists of Leaders(elder, pastors, teachers etc...)and the flock. The leaders submit to Christ and the flock is to submit to the leaders.

In the above we see the family(husband, wife and children) and the Church(Christ,leaders and the flock) are all designed to reflect the triune nature of God by the relationships and order of these institutions.

Conclusion:God is love because He loves within His own nature. God could not love if He was only one person. God would be contradicting Himself if He was not self sufficient. God is Love means that He has this ability to love within Himself. This is only possible if He is a tri-personal God.

hope this helps !!!
 
God is Love means that He has this ability to love within Himself. This is only possible if He is a tri-personal God.

It would seem that without creating the unitarian god would never have experienced love.
This would entail this god is dependent on creation for it.
 
A unitarian god cannot know or experience love as a solitary person. That god is incapable of love for the scriptures declare that God is love. It is impossible for that god to love for there was nothing to love before creation. This god would need created beings to love him out of something lacking within his very nature. For someone to love there must be another to share in that love.


God is love because He loves within His own nature. God could not love if He was only one person. God would be contradicting Himself if He was not self sufficient. God is Love means that He has this ability to love within Himself. This is only possible if He is a tri-personal God whom the scriptures declare to be The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. That is impossible. It is an oxymoron.

The only viable answer to Gods love and that He is love is for God to be Triune in nature which would explain why and how God is love. A false god who is only a solitary person cannot know what love is as there is no one to love. That god is void of love by nature. The only viable answer to Gods love and that He is love is for God to be Triune in nature which would explain why and how God is love.

God is a personal, relational being by His very essence or nature. There are roles within the Godhead that have to do with the tri-personal nature of His being. The Father sends the Son, The Son submits to the Father. The Holy Spirit speaks of and honors the Father and the Son. Jesus said I and the Father are one. We clearly see the relationship of the Triune Godhead in the 14th-16th chapters of John.

Now it is very interesting that when we begin with God(Trinity) we see that He has designed not only man, but the family and the Church to represent and reflect His very own nature. God has designed this order and is clearly seen back in Genesis 1-2.

When God created the first 6 days He declared everything "was good". We read the only time in creation where God said otherwise was when He created man (who was made in His very own image). He used the plural form by saying LET US make man in OUR image after OUR likeness.

But God did not stop there. He said it was NOT GOOD for man to be alone. Why did God say this ? Man was created to be a relational being just like God (trinity). God created woman so that man would not be alone as God is not alone. The two would become ONE just as the Father and the Son are ONE.

Man was to procreate and have a family. Within the family unit Man is the head of the woman. The woman submits to the man. The Son submits to the Father. The Holy Spirit honors both the Father and the Son. The children are to honor their Mother and their Father. This reflects the very nature of God.

Now the same is true of the Church. Christ is the Head of the body. The body consists of Leaders(elder, pastors, teachers etc...)and the flock. The leaders submit to Christ and the flock is to submit to the leaders.

In the above we see the family(husband, wife and children) and the Church(Christ,leaders and the flock) are all designed to reflect the triune nature of God by the relationships and order of these institutions.

Conclusion:God is love because He loves within His own nature. God could not love if He was only one person. God would be contradicting Himself if He was not self sufficient. God is Love means that He has this ability to love within Himself. This is only possible if He is a tri-personal God.

hope this helps !!!
I am not a unitarian, but..
you are not saying, Peter, who went about doing good, and would go on to died for his Lord (no greater love), if locked up in Solitary confinement, with hands and feet tied, and a gaged mouth, would no longer be a loving person, because there was no one around to love, and because he could not talk, and act? Or, when we sleep, does the spirit of God leave us, or is the spirit quenched, because we stopped being loving while we slept?

Love is also a sacrifice, what bad could one of the God persons be doing to have to be shown longsuffering? Which of the three would God have to be patient with, if each is perfect? But wait, is not God the substance (to a, or some, trinitarians), why would substance need to show patients? How can God show longsuffering, if there was no one to force longsuffering? How could God be a merceyful God, if there was no one to show mercey to? Is not mercy a loving act, who was God showing this love/mercy to, the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit?

Love starts by being loving inside, first (It would seem to me we agree here)! Love starts, or is, from the heart, not the mind. One may choose in their mind to perform an loving act, but what was the motive of the heart (Judas Jn 12:4-6)?

1Co 13:2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is of the heart (inside), Love is put on display when the time is right. There is a time to love, and a time to hate.
 
A unitarian god cannot know or experience love as a solitary person. That god is incapable of love for the scriptures declare that God is love. It is impossible for that god to love for there was nothing to love before creation. This god would need created beings to love him out of something lacking within his very nature. For someone to love there must be another to share in that love.

No one, with any credibility, is saying God was alone before the world was. Certainly, the Lord's Christ doesn't teach this. And neither does the Law and Prophets.

Gen 3: 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become "as one of us", to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Job 1: 6 Now there was a day when "the sons of God" came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

John 17: 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Who inspired the creation of the family unit, in which the father is the head of the children? Was it not God the Father? Who placed the emotion of LOVE between a father and his children? Was it not God the Father?

A "Unitarian God", I don't even know what that is. According to what is actually written, there is a Godhead. A "God Family" to us my own words. It consists of the God and Father of All, then His Son, who was "With God" before the World was, and the children of God "created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them".

Anyone who teaches God existed alone before the world was, denies the Holy Scriptures.
 
No one, with any credibility, is saying God was alone before the world was. Certainly, the Lord's Christ doesn't teach this. And neither does the Law and Prophets.

Gen 3: 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become "as one of us", to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Job 1: 6 Now there was a day when "the sons of God" came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

John 17: 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Who inspired the creation of the family unit, in which the father is the head of the children? Was it not God the Father? Who placed the emotion of LOVE between a father and his children? Was it not God the Father?

A "Unitarian God", I don't even know what that is. According to what is actually written, there is a Godhead. A "God Family" to us my own words. It consists of the God and Father of All, then His Son, who was "With God" before the World was, and the children of God "created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them".

Anyone who teaches God existed alone before the world was, denies the Holy Scriptures.
who existed with God before anything was created including the angels ?

are you claiming the angels were not created ?
 
who existed with God before anything was created including the angels ?

are you claiming the angels were not created ?

It would be nice for once if you would just acknowledge my post, and the Scriptures referenced, instead of always deflecting and self-justifying.

God was not alone before the world was. That is the point of the scriptures I posted.
 
It would be nice for once if you would just acknowledge my post, and the Scriptures referenced, instead of always deflecting and self-justifying.

God was not alone before the world was. That is the point of the scriptures I posted.
We know that God created all things, including the angels. In COLOSSIANS 1:16, Paul writes the following:

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. COLOSSIANS 1:16
In this verse, the words “principalities or powers” refer to angelic beings. We also know by reading GENESIS 1:1–5 that God created the heavens and the earth on the first day of the creation week.

Now let’s build on this background information by looking at some additional verses. We can learn from reading JOB 38:4–7 that the angels, called “sons of God” and possibly “morning stars” in verse 7, witnessed some of God’s work during the Creation Week. In these verses, God is speaking to Job. God says the following:

Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? JOB 38:4–7
The angels “shouted for joy” in response to God’s wonderful creative work! These verses tell us that the angels rejoiced when God laid the foundations of the earth. This could be a reference to day 1, when God made the earth; or it could be a reference to day 3, when God made the dry land. Either way, the angels were in existence before day 4 of the Creation Week.

We can find more information about the creation of angels by reading verses about the creation of Satan. Keep in mind that when angels were created, Satan and the fallen angels had not yet sinned. We know this because God declares His creation to be “very good” in GENESIS 1:31. This next set of verses is long. See if you can find the hint about when Satan was created. EZEKIEL 28:13–15 states the following:

You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering: the sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created. You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. EZEKIEL 28:13–15
Did you notice? Verse 15 mentions that Satan was created on a specific “day.” Since time did not exist before day 1, this means that Satan was created during the Creation Week. AIG.

hope this helps !!!
 
We know that God created all things, including the angels. In COLOSSIANS 1:16, Paul writes the following:

The Bible says the Christ created all things by the Will of His Father, who HE says HE was with "Before the World was".

Are you preaching that when God said "They have become as one of us", He was including satan and angels who HE created "as one of us"??
 
The Bible says the Christ created all things by the Will of His Father, who HE says HE was with "Before the World was".

Are you preaching that when God said "They have become as one of us", He was including satan and angels who HE created "as one of us"??
Nope nice try the us, we, our is God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit the Plural God of the Bible
 
Nope nice try the us, we, our is God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit the Plural God of the Bible
God is treated as a Singular Person across the Bible, 99.5% of the verses where "God" is mentioned ( and I am being conservative with that 99.5%).
Jesus Himself, who you consider the foundation of your faith, treats "God" always as a Singular Person.

God bothered to inspire a direct statement of being One of a Kind. "Shema, Israel, YHWH our God, YWHWH is One".
That's the foundation of the faith of Israel and the King of Israel, Jesus Christ, who repeated the Shema before telling the scribe which was the most important of all commandments.

So, a "Plural God" is alien to Judaism, alien to Zoroastrianism, alien to Islam, alien to the Bahai Faith, alien to Jesus and his disciples, (who were Jews) and alien to millions of Christians through centuries. It is also alien to you, in your heart of hearts.

I invite you to imitate Jesus Christ, and regard His Father, Our Father, as the Only and True God.
Make Jesus the Lord of your life... but always to the glory of God, the Father.
 
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God is treated as a Singular Person across the Bible, 99.5% of the verses where "God" is mentioned ( and I am being conservative with that 99.5%).
Jesus Himself, who you consider the foundation of your faith, treats "God" always as a Singular Person.

God bothered to inspire a direct statement of being One of a Kind. "Shema, Israel, YHWH our God, YWHWH is One".
That's the foundation of the faith of Israel and the King of Israel, Jesus Christ, who repeated the Shema before telling the scribe which was the most important of all commandments.

So, a "Plural God" is alien to Judaism, alien to Zoroastrianism, alien to Islam, alien to the Bahai Faith, alien to Jesus and his disciples, (who were Jews) and alien to millions of Christians through centuries. It is also alien to you, in your heart of hearts.

I invite you to imitate Jesus Christ, and regard His Father, Our Father, as the Only and True God.
Make Jesus the Lord of your life... but always to the glory of God, the Father.
From a great friend of mine who went to be with the Lord close to 10 years ago. We use to talk allot on the phone and he was a mentor of mine I met online on an old forum 20 years ago I use to be a part of before staring this forum.

The Plural Maker

Called God

Ray Goldsmith


The Bible starts early showing us that God is a plurality of Persons. For example as early as Genesis 1:26 we are confronted with a plural Maker called God. We read “Let US MAKE…in OUR IMAGE”. Most admit that the Father and Son were involved in the creation of Man, but the Holy Spirit participated as well, for nothing was created without the Holy Spirit’s participation. Detractors of the Trinity will admit this, even if they deny the Holy Spirit’s Personality. This is the one thing that distinguishes Jehovah, he is God by reason of his Creatorship. It is his claim to fame, his name and reputation.

In the New Testament Jesus referred to that same name and reputation when he said to baptize “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19). It was not a coincidence that the same three were involved in the creation of Man. But notice that it’s presented as a single Authority, a single name and reputation, and yet three distinct entities are listed. Have you ever wondered why Jesus didn’t say to baptize in the name of “The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, Gabriel, and John the Baptist”? Why did he stop with just those three? The very question itself should embarrass anyone who denies the Trinity, for it is obvious that that single name and reputation is of only those three, the same three who were involved in the “US MAKE” of Genesis 1:26, the plural Maker called God. Ultimately Jehovah is not just the Father, as some have assumed, but also includes the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ has become a stumbling stone and rock of offense for those who deny his true Deity, for they soon discover that they have a dilemma. If Jesus is GOD, is he true God or an untrue god? Is he really God or just a so-called god (1st Cor. 8:5)? It’s really an unhappy choice for them, for who wants an untrue god for a savior? Yet since they deny the former, they have no choice in the matter but to accept the latter. For them Jesus is an untrue god, just a so-called god. Yet the detractor protests, “But what about John 17:3, where Jesus calls his Father the only true God? This means that only the Father is true God”. Yet, as we shall see, they have become tricked by the mere sound and appearance of words mixed with some superficial thinking. What am I referring to?

The mistake comes in assuming that God can be held hostage to the finite premise that one being can only be a single Person in the Bible. It seems logical in our context, but all is not what it seems. Similar language to John 17:3 appears in Jude 4, where our best manuscripts read that Jesus is “our only Owner and Lord”. Here the same adjective “only” appears in the same grammatical position (attributive).

Yet immediately the detractors have a problem restricting the Owner and Lord to the one Person, Jesus Christ, for they know that Scripture elsewhere clearly identifies a Person other than Jesus as our “Owner and Lord”. How can Jesus be our only Owner and Lord if the Father is also our Owner and Lord? Or, how can the Father be our Owner and Lord if Jesus is our ONLY Owner and Lord? The same logic they apply to John 17:3 would deny that any other Person than Jesus Christ could be our “Owner and Lord” according to Jude 4. So when does only really mean only? Hence, Jude 4 has become a stumbling block to detractors of the Trinity because they cannot apply the same exegetical principles to it that they require in John 17:3. What then is the correct understanding of the language in John 17:3?

First we must observe that this is the night before the crucifixion, and Jesus is speaking from within his role as the mediator of the New Covenant. Earlier in his upper room discourse he had said that “no man comes to the Father, but by me” (John 14:6). Coming to the Father through the Son is the same thing as coming to God. We must understand that the Father operates through a mediator, whether it was the original creation, or the new creation. And that mediator at the time of John 17:3 had become a man like you and me.

So then, from this perspective he naturally calls his Father the only true God, but note what he's really saying here. What? That they might know you...and me. Imagine that. That we might know an ultimate creature and our eternal life depends on it? No way, friends! We need to know God to have life and that includes our knowing Jesus Christ, the one who had emptied himself to occupy a lower POSITION in order to pay the toll and be our bridge back to God. But looking at Jude 4 might help you to see how superficial the detractors are being in John 17:3. Only by understanding Jesus Christ as an ultimate and equal member of the eternal Godhead can we rightfully say that he's our ONLY Owner and Lord. See how easily the Trinity accommodates this? Without the Trinity the passage appears to be an outright contradiction to Scripture elsewhere.

You see, it's illogical to assume that to affirm the one is to automatically deny the other, and it’s a mistake to take something that is true of Christ’s transient identity and arbitrarily in your mind make that the be-all and end-all. As to his transient identity as a man, Jesus had a God (why wouldn’t he?), but as to his ultimate identity, all God’s angels must bow before him (Heb. 1:6) and we should honor/value the Son just as we honor/value the Father (John 5:23). Why? Because ultimately he is equal in nature with His Father, just as John had said a few verses earlier (John 5:18), Jesus confirmed a few verses later. They share equally with the Holy Spirit that name and reputation which is unique to Jehovah (Matt. 28:19).

Isaiah the prophet predicted the coming of the Messiah, and John the Baptist who would clear his path. In Isaiah 40:3 we read… “A voice is calling ‘Clear the way for the LORD in the wilderness; Make smooth in the desert a highway for our God.” Note it says “a highway for our God”. To show that this God is the true God, the NWT translates it “Clear up the way of Jehovah, YOU people”. So there is no doubt that the passage predicts the coming of our God, Jehovah. Yet it was Jesus who showed up, wasn’t it? Note the similarity between the expressions “our God” and “…my God” (Thomas, John 20:28). Same individual, wasn’t it? With this prediction in mind, note also Matt. 1:23… “Look, The virgin will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and they will call his name Immanuel,” which means, when translated, ‘With Us Is God’”.

So we see the above predictions and identifications of this individual as true God, Jehovah, and yet the detractors stubbornly refuse to believe. Their minds are closed on the matter and they say “Oh, he only represented Jehovah”, but even so, that would not deny his own identity as Jehovah, one of the members of the plural Maker called God in Gen. 1:26, right? One of these plural members became the Messiah, and of course came representing Jehovah. The embarrassing thing for detractors is that in the above predictions he’s so often called LORD, GOD, and JEHOVAH, and lamentably for them, they cannot deny that he was included in the plural Maker of Gen. 1:26. Yet there was nothing untrue about the God in that context, was there? No there was not, but the Son was included, for that Maker was God, and that Maker was a plurality of Persons.

Some detractors have attempted to escape the force of the above predictions and identifications by pointing to examples where others have been called God and Lord…etc. But the attempt to escape on that basis fails to make muster. Why? Because it was not said of any of those in their examples that all things came into existence through them (John 1:3). None of those in their examples were involved in the original creation, just the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Hence, then, when the terms and identifications are applied to any one of these three, it can only be understood in that context and with that in mind.

Further evidence that the Son was included in the plural Maker called God can be found in Isaiah 44:24, where the passage declares plainly that Jehovah did the things mentioned alone. Yet the Son participated in these mighty works when Jehovah did them alone, didn’t he? Compare Heb. 1:10 where the Father directly addressing the Son says these were the works of the Son’s hands. Yet in its original context they were the works of Jehovah’s hands (Ps 102:25-26). And of course the Holy Spirit also participated in the doing of these things when Jehovah did them alone. Jehovah never lies, friends, therefore Jehovah INCLUDES the Son and the Holy Spirit as participants in these mighty works when Jehovah did them alone. Detractors have pointed to the presence of angels at this time, but that still doesn’t solve the problem of explaining how Jehovah alone did these things, for the angels did not participate in those mighty works. Just the Son and the Holy Spirit along with the Father. The same three involved in the creation of Man in Gen. 1:26. Again we see the same formula here as in Christ’s instructions at Matt. 28:19, the same name and reputation, single Authority, three individuals. This could get to be a theme!

The one thing that distinguishes Jehovah as true God, his Creatorship, was shared equally by the Son and Holy Spirit. Only God has this distinguishing power and characteristic, and this God has been shown to be a plurality of Persons.

That is why we know that when the logos is called “theos” in John 1:1, it means God in the true sense. Immediately after calling him “theos”, it reveals that all things came into existence through him, and further says that there were no exceptions to this, not even one. This can only mean that the first thing that ever came into existence did so through him. Have you ever thought about that?

If ever there were a context in which we would expect a clear reference to and description of the coming into existence of the logos (if such there were), it would be in John chapter 1. Here we have the beginning, the logos, ton theon, and the coming into existence of all things. Yet not a syllable is mentioned about a coming into existence of the logos. Such a reference and/or description is conspicuous by its absence. This passage begins with the logos in a state of continuous existence with “ton theon” in the beginning, and there is no more evidence here that the logos came into existence than there is that “ton theon” came into existence. Could such a momentous event as the creation of the Son have been left out of this otherwise comprehensive context? Can anyone think of a good reason why it would have been left out, since everything else is mentioned? Yet there is another side to this, John left nothing out because there was no such event.

Some have tried to deny that Jesus is truly God by pointing to John 1:18, where it says that “no man has seen God at any time”, and so they conclude that since men DID see Jesus, he cannot be God. But this reasoning is superficial. Moses saw God’s back, didn’t he? (Ex. 33:23) And Isaiah the prophet cried out “Woe is me, for my eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of Armies himself” (Isaiah 6:5-6). So should we conclude that the Bible contradicts itself? Or would it be better to harmonize the Scripture? Obviously it means that no one on earth can see Jehovah in all his glory at once (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) and live.

Other detractors have seized on the word “begotten” in John 1:18 to support their claims that Jesus was the first creation of God. But again they are making the mistake of assuming that God can be held hostage to the meaning of human terms. They simply overlook that God uses our language condescendingly in the Bible to help us understand some things about his infinite nature, but we have no right to hold him hostage to those terms. Assuming the word “begotten” to carry all the connotations it does in our human context, we might expect a female counterpart to have been involved in the begetting of the Son, but I trust that even the most ardent detractor will admit that such thinking is silly. Remember what Jehovah said in Isaiah 55:8-9, “my ways and thoughts are higher than yours”. Hence, then, the term “begotten” may simply mean to distinguish the Father and Son but suggest an equality of nature at the same time. This kind of generation depicts the eternal relationship of the members of the Godhead. Note the passage also says that the Son “exegetes” the Father. Yet it makes sense that one from infinity would explain or “exegete” another from infinity, doesn’t it? Let’s move on…

Some who have accepted the teaching that Christ was the first creation of God have appealed to Proverbs 8:22, but this is another place where they have been tricked by the mere sound and appearance of words. First let’s observe that Proverbs 8:22 appears in the Old Testament when God’s revelation was not yet complete. Hence it cannot dictate the meaning of a New Testament passage. I didn’t say it couldn’t agree with a NT passage, only that it cannot dictate or determine the meaning of a NT passage. If anything the New Testament clarifies the meaning of the Old Testament since it is the later revelation.

Most translations render the Hebrew verb “qanah” as either “possessed” or “brought forth…produced” in agreement with the Masoretic Text which is generally considered the most accurate. Some have appealed to the LXX’s “created” for obvious reasons. But as stated “possessed” or “produced” is considered a more accurate reflection of the Hebrew. Interestingly even the New World Translation (the Watchtower's version of the Bible) translates this as “produced”. The passage portrays a personification of God’s Wisdom, and because Jesus is said to be the power and wisdom of God in the NT, some have assumed that Proverbs 8:22 means that Christ was created or “produced” in the sense of “came into existence”.

But the mistake should be self evident. This passage cannot be teaching that God’s Wisdom once did not exist. Wisdom is an eternal attribute of God, for he has always been infinitely wise. The natural opposite of wisdom is folly, and they are inversely proportional. Hence, to suggest that God’s wisdom once did not exist is to suggest the God was once infinitely foolish! How then can Proverbs 8:22 be understood in agreement with John 1:1-3?

Proverbs 8:22 merely says that God’s Wisdom was “produced, brought forth , or brought to bear” in the creation of all things. And thus it harmonizes beautifully with John 1:3 for instance, where we are told quite plainly that all things came into existence through the logos, and without him not even one thing came to be. This places the logos’ existence as a fact prior to the coming into existence of the first thing that ever did so. Thus God’s Wisdom (the logos) was brought to bear or focused in the creation of all things. But God’s Wisdom is eternal, and this eternal Wisdom was the intermediary of all God’s creation.

Some have appealed to Revelation 3:14, “the beginning of the creation of God”, to support their belief that Christ was the first creature. The latest attempt is to base the argument on the Greek grammar. It is pointed out that the word “arche” is used with the genitive case, and whenever its used elsewhere in Scripture with the genitive, it always means beginning in the numerical sense (first numerically), and they often cite longs lists of examples to illustrate its partitive meaning. However, in trying to prove their point on the basis of Greek Grammar, they have simply overlooked that in Revelation 3:14 we are not dealing with a simple declarative sentence (predicative), but the application of an idiomatic title. And in the case of idioms grammatical construction does not play a major role in the interpretation. They also overlook that in the long list of examples they cite, none of them have the same referents and subject material as in Revelation 3:14, and so they do not provide a real parallel to the disputed passage. How then should it be understood?

Since this is the application of an idiomatic title, its meaning should be determined by the rest of the New Testament…with regard to the same subject material and referents. In John 1:3 we have a straight-forward declarative statement being made about the same referents and subject material, Christ and the coming into existence of all things. It’s important to notice that we are not dealing with the application of an idiomatic title in John 1:3, as in Revelation 3:14. Yet what does the passage tell us about the same referents and subject material? It says plainly that all things came into existence through the logos, without even a single exception! Paul tells us the same thing in Colossians 1:16-18, all creation came into existence through him, and he is before all things. He couldn’t have been more clear. Hence, then, the NT shows that with regard to the same referents and subject material, the Logos pre-existed all creation, and all creation came into existence through him. So the word “arche” means in Revelation 3:14 that Christ was the beginner (and thus the ruler) of God’s creation. Interestingly the same word “arche” appears in Col. 1:18, and there it simply means that Christ was the “builder or beginner” of the Church or Congregation, yet note that Christ pre-existed the Church, didn’t he? Sure he did, but he was the “arche”, the Church’s builder (beginning). And finally…

The Bible makes clear that there is only one Savior of the whole world. Did you know that? In fact the Scripture makes it plain that God is our only Savior:

“Turn to me and be saved, all YOU [at the] ends of the earth; for I am God
and there is no one else. 23 By my own self I have sworn-out of my own
mouth in righteousness the word has gone forth, so that it will not return-
that to me every knee will bend down, every tongue will swear…”(Isaiah
45:22-23 NWT, emphasis added).

The above could not be more clear. God is the only Savior of the whole world, and there is no one else. Yet the detractors step up to tell us that Christ is someone else, and he’s our Savior too! Note what God says: “to me every knee will bend down..”, yet we discover in Philippians 2:10 that the “me” includes Jesus whom the detractors say is another Savior…but as we’ve seen, God declared in plain language that there is no other. So no matter what detractor theology requires, we really don’t have another Savior in Jesus; rather they are the one and only Savior. Detractors are afraid to admit this because they know it will lead to the conclusion that they are also the one and only God. Yet here we see that same theme again, Jehovah is really a plurality of Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Just those three work intimately together in the salvation of mankind…they are the one Savior, Jehovah, the plural Maker called God. This plural Maker worked together in the original creation and they continue to work together in the new creation, for as Jesus said, believers should be baptized in that single name and reputation, that of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. (Matt. 28:19)

Obviously I could continue with this, for there is no shortage of evidence in the Scripture supporting the Christian Trinity, but I don’t want to make it too long and cumbersome for the reader…so I will end it right here. If what I’ve presented, though, will cause some to dispense with the usual rhetoric, and come to grips with this evidence analytically, it will have served its intended purpose.

Ray Goldsmith
 
My favorite topic:love:

The New Testament is an “us” book written for people together, not for individuals in isolation.
This becomes apparent as we consider the “one another” concept that is so very significant in the New Testament Epistles.
That phrase occurs some sixty-one times, almost all of which have to do with how Christians relate to one another.
For example, we read that we are to pray for one another, encourage one another, greet one another, and forgive one another.
These statements form a kind of road map of godly relationships, showing the little highways of caring that connect us.

All those roads lead to this destination: Love One Another.”
 
My favorite topic:love:

The New Testament is an “us” book written for people together, not for individuals in isolation.
This becomes apparent as we consider the “one another” concept that is so very significant in the New Testament Epistles.
That phrase occurs some sixty-one times, almost all of which have to do with how Christians relate to one another.
For example, we read that we are to pray for one another, encourage one another, greet one another, and forgive one another.
These statements form a kind of road map of godly relationships, showing the little highways of caring that connect us.

All those roads lead to this destination: Love One Another.”

There are also warnings given to those who would "Yield themselves" servants to obey God and become "servants of righteousness". These warnings are many in both the Law and Prophets, and in the Testimony. We are specifically warned against listening to and/or adopting the religious philosophies and doctrines of men who "profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate". Men who "Transform themselves into Apostles of Christ". Men who "Call Jesus Lord, Lord, but live in transgression of God's Commandments.

Matt. 24: 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come "in my name", saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Jesus didn't warn His Disciples and me, about Islam, Buddhism, even atheism here. He specifically warned of "ONE" religion. This theme is present throughout the Scriptures. It wasn't the heathen that murdered the Prophets or killed Stephen or the Lord's Christ. It was men who "Professed to know God, but by their works they denied Him".

The Jesus "of the Bible" said of the Mainstream preachers of His time: "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition".

The Spirit of this same Christ inspired Jeremiah to warn:

Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that "walketh" after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. (You are saved)

Surely the Spirit of Christ was promoting the Love of God when HE instructed me concerning the hypocrites in the Synagogues and to "Be not ye therefore like unto them" in Matthew 6.

Should a man not pray to God that others might escape this world's religious system that has full well rejected God's Judgments, commandments and statutes, who have created an image of God in the likeness of some random handsome long-haired man, and have created their own high days in worship of this image?

I agree that the Faithful, or as Jesus calls them in John 4:23, "True Worshippers", are to learn how to Love One Another.

But it seems this knowledge should come from the God Inspired Holy Scriptures that Paul taught were trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
, not the religions of this world who call Jesus Lord, Lord, but transgress God's Commandments by their own manmade religious traditions.

Even the serpent in the garden, used "some" of God's Word to deceive Eve. Had she followed the instruction of the Lord's Christ, imagine how her life would have changed.

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, "It is written", Man shall not live by bread alone, but by "every word" that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Even Jesus "put on" the Armor of God to withstand the wiles of the devil.
 
There are also warnings given to those who would "Yield themselves" servants to obey God and become "servants of righteousness". These warnings are many in both the Law and Prophets, and in the Testimony. We are specifically warned against listening to and/or adopting the religious philosophies and doctrines of men who "profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate". Men who "Transform themselves into Apostles of Christ". Men who "Call Jesus Lord, Lord, but live in transgression of God's Commandments.

Matt. 24: 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come "in my name", saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Jesus didn't warn His Disciples and me, about Islam, Buddhism, even atheism here. He specifically warned of "ONE" religion. This theme is present throughout the Scriptures. It wasn't the heathen that murdered the Prophets or killed Stephen or the Lord's Christ. It was men who "Professed to know God, but by their works they denied Him".

The Jesus "of the Bible" said of the Mainstream preachers of His time: "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition".

The Spirit of this same Christ inspired Jeremiah to warn:

Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that "walketh" after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. (You are saved)

Surely the Spirit of Christ was promoting the Love of God when HE instructed me concerning the hypocrites in the Synagogues and to "Be not ye therefore like unto them" in Matthew 6.

Should a man not pray to God that others might escape this world's religious system that has full well rejected God's Judgments, commandments and statutes, who have created an image of God in the likeness of some random handsome long-haired man, and have created their own high days in worship of this image?

I agree that the Faithful, or as Jesus calls them in John 4:23, "True Worshippers", are to learn how to Love One Another.

But it seems this knowledge should come from the God Inspired Holy Scriptures that Paul taught were trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
, not the religions of this world who call Jesus Lord, Lord, but transgress God's Commandments by their own manmade religious traditions.

Even the serpent in the garden, used "some" of God's Word to deceive Eve. Had she followed the instruction of the Lord's Christ, imagine how her life would have changed.

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, "It is written", Man shall not live by bread alone, but by "every word" that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Even Jesus "put on" the Armor of God to withstand the wiles of the devil.
Jesus is God, His words are Gods words, the very word of the Lord ( YHWH ) when Jesus speaks YHWH is speaking, to see Him is to see God.

We can see that there is only One Savior who is Lord from both the Old and New Testaments. We will see that the word Lord in many places is used in the book of Acts as an equivalent to God.

Yes those who deny the following are indeed deceived.


Isa 43:11
11
"I, even I, am the Lord,
And there is no savior besides Me.

Isa 45:21-23
Is it not I, the Lord?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A righteous God and a Savior;
There is none except Me
.
22"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23"I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.

Below we see in fact it is the name of Jesus alone by which men must be saved. There is no other name which can save a man.


Acts 4:12
12
"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Here we see Stephen pray to Jesus as he was being stoned which would be forbidden if He were not God. We also see that Stephen was full of the Holy Spirit when he was praying to Jesus.


Acts 7:59-60
59
They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" 60Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.

Jesus is Lord(YHWH) of all with no exceptions


Acts 10:36
"The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)

Acts 14:3
3
Therefore they spent a long time there speaking boldly with reliance upon the Lord, who was testifying to the word of His grace, granting that signs and wonders be done by their hands.

We see below that it was the name of Jesus whom they proclaimed as Lord. It was Jesus who was preached to the gentiles.

Acts 15:15-18
15
"With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written,
16'AFTER THESE THINGS I will return,
AND I WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID WHICH HAS FALLEN,
AND I WILL REBUILD ITS RUINS,
AND I WILL RESTORE IT,
17SO THAT THE REST OF MANKIND MAY SEEK THE LORD,
AND ALL THE GENTILES WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME,'
18SAYS THE LORD, WHO MAKES THESE THINGS KNOWN FROM LONG AGO.


Acts 15:23-26
"The apostles and the brethren who are elders, to the brethren in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles, greetings.
24"Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls, 25it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The phrase the word of God is synonymous with the word of the Lord(Jesus,YHWH)

Acts 15:35
But Paul and Barnabas stayed in Antioch, teaching and preaching with many others also, the word of the Lord.


Acts 16:14-15
14
A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul. 15And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.

Below we see to believe in the Lord(Jesus) is the same as believing in God. In fact we see that they first believed in the Lord Jesus and later referred to that as believing in God therefore calling the Lord Jesus God !!


Acts 16:31-34
31
They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." 32And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. 34And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.

So we can see that Jesus was preached in the book of Acts as the only One who can save men from their sins. We see He is indeed the Savior. We see He was prayed to under the power of the Holy Spirit and that Jesus answered prayer. They also called the word of God the word of the Lord making Jesus equal with God. We also see that those who believed in the Lord Jesus actually believed in God, therefor calling Jesus God.

hope this helps !!!
 
Nope nice try the us, we, our is God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit the Plural God of the Bible

I'm sure all those years you believed and preached to others "Calvinism" and their TULIP, you did so with the same zeal you now promote the Catholic doctrine of the "Trinity". Hopefully, someday before it's too late, you might also come to understand and believe Paul and Jesus concerning the Godhead.

1 Cor. 11: 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

God's Spirit, AKA, "The Holy Spirit" is not some separate entity. Rather, it is God's Spirit to give to whomever HE chooses to give it to. This is how God dwells in man, and is how God dwelled in Jesus, the man.

Ex. 35: 30 And Moses said unto the children of Israel, See, the LORD hath called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah; 31 And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;

But I know you are too invested in your religion right now to consider that you might, once again, be in deception.

My hope is that someday you might trust "ALL" that is written, not just the philosophies of this world's religion's you have adopted at this time in your life.
 
I'm sure all those years you believed and preached to others "Calvinism" and their TULIP, you did so with the same zeal you now promote the Catholic doctrine of the "Trinity". Hopefully, someday before it's too late, you might also come to understand and believe Paul and Jesus concerning the Godhead.

1 Cor. 11: 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

God's Spirit, AKA, "The Holy Spirit" is not some separate entity. Rather, it is God's Spirit to give to whomever HE chooses to give it to. This is how God dwells in man, and is how God dwelled in Jesus, the man.

Ex. 35: 30 And Moses said unto the children of Israel, See, the LORD hath called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah; 31 And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;

But I know you are too invested in your religion right now to consider that you might, once again, be in deception.

My hope is that someday you might trust "ALL" that is written, not just the philosophies of this world's religion's you have adopted at this time in your life.

Gods Word is Eternal​

More proof Jesus is God. His words are eternal.

Mark 13:31
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.

Psalms 119:160
All your words
are true;
all your righteous laws are eternal.

Isaiah 40:8
The grass withers, the flower fades,
But the word of our God stands forever.

Acts 13:44-50
And the next Sabbath nearly the whole city assembled to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy, and began contradicting the things spoken by Paul, and were blaspheming. 46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it, and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. 47 "For thus the Lord has commanded us,

'I have placed You as a light for the Gentiles,
That You should bring salvation to the end of the earth.'"

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. 49 And the word of the Lord was being spread through the whole region.

The word of the Lord(Jesus) is the word of God. More proof Jesus is God in Acts.

The word of the Lord, the word of Christ is the same as the word of God. The same God, the same Word as They are identical. The word of the Lord(Jesus) was spread throughout the book of Acts as the very word of God and they are used interchangeably in Acts. Below we see the word of the Lord = Jesus words are the very words of God. This can be said of no mere man but only a man who is also God as Scripture declares about Christ.

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you,

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.


2 Thessalonians 3:1-3

Finally, brothers, pray for us that the message of the Lord may spread rapidly and be honored, just as it was with you. 2 And pray that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men, for not everyone has faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen and protect you from the evil one.

1 Peter 1:23-25

For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

"All men are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord stands forever."

And this is the word that was preached to you.


1-Can we say let the word of Paul richly dwell in you
2-Can we say let the word of Peter richly dwell in you
3-Can we say let the word of David richly dwell in you
4-Can we say let the word of Moses richly dwell in you

the answer to the above is a resounding NO you cannot say it.


But you can say let the word of God, the word of the Lord, the word of Christ richly dwell in you because they have the exact/identical meaning.


hope this helps !!!
 
Jesus is God, His words are Gods words,

Yes, the Jesus "of the bible" said God gave Him the Words He wanted His Son Jesus to give to us. And I believe in "this Jesus".


the very word of the Lord ( YHWH ) when Jesus speaks YHWH is speaking, to see Him is to see God.

He was truly perfect, even as His Father and my Father in Heaven is perfect. You know, the Same Father Jesus is standing even now at the right Hand of, Advocating between me and His God.

So I know you believe that when I see the huge statue over Rio de Janeiro, I "See God". And I know you must justify your religion and its idols.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_de_Janeiro#
But I am instructed by the Jesus "of the Bible" to Worship God "In Spirit and Truth". I know your image of God, is not really God, just as the Golden calf Israel created and called their God, was not really God.

We can see that there is only One Savior who is Lord from both the Old and New Testaments. We will see that the word Lord in many places is used in the book of Acts as an equivalent to God.

Yes those who deny the following are indeed deceived.


Isa 43:11
11
"I, even I, am the Lord,
And there is no savior besides Me.

Isa 45:21-23
Is it not I, the Lord?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A righteous God and a Savior;
There is none except Me
.
22"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23"I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.

Amen!


Is. 48: 15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.

16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, "hath sent me".

17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, "which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go". 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

John 3: 16 For God so loved the world, that "he gave" his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world "through him" might be saved.

Will you now tell me that God didn't send His Son to feed and water Israel in the Wilderness? To teach them in the way that they should go. Will you preach to others that God didn't send the Spirit of Christ to Abraham, to show him in the way that he should go?

I know you are here on a mission to preserve and promote your specific religious business/sect. Just as you promoted Calvinism, when you were a Calvinist. And I know why you will not answer my questions, or even acknowledge the Scriptures I post, that bring your religious philosophies into question.

So there must come a time when I stop engaging in this foolishness, nevertheless, I will address your Scriptures posted in this post, because I am instructed by the Jesus "of the bible", "Be ye therefore not like unto them".

Below we see in fact it is the name of Jesus alone by which men must be saved. There is no other name which can save a man.

Yes, the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, which HE said was greater than HE, has given HIM power over all flesh.

How can the Jesus "of the Bible" save you, if God doesn't give Him the Power to do so?

John 6: 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Acts 4:12
12
"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Here we see Stephen pray to Jesus as he was being stoned which would be forbidden if He were not God. We also see that Stephen was full of the Holy Spirit when he was praying to Jesus.

Who gave Stephen to Jesus as his Lord and Savior?

Acts 7: 55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, "and" Jesus standing on the right hand "of God", 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing "on the right hand of God".

In your religion, is this same Christ still there, on the right Hand of His God and my God, advocating between me and His Father and my Father, as HE was advocating between Stephen and His God and my God?

Of course, you won't answer.

Acts 7:59-60
59
They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" 60Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.

Jesus is Lord(YHWH) of all with no exceptions

How can I come to God unless the High Priest of God advocate for me? Stephen clearly understood this, seeing Jesus standing on the Right Hand of the Glory of God. He knew who God Sent to save Him.

Acts 10:36
"The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)

36 The "word" which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace (With God) "by Jesus Christ": (he is Lord of all:)

By no other name can a man come to peace with God, than through His Son, the Rock of Israel, their redeemer.

38 How "God anointed Jesus" of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for "God was with him".

39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

40 Him (Jesus) "God raised up" the third day, and shewed him openly;

Acts 14:3
3
Therefore they spent a long time there speaking boldly with reliance upon the Lord, who was testifying to the word of His grace, granting that signs and wonders be done by their hands.

Who gave these men to the Redeemer?


We see below that it was the name of Jesus whom they proclaimed as Lord. It was Jesus who was preached to the gentiles.

Acts 15:15-18
15
"With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written,
16'AFTER THESE THINGS I will return,
AND I WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID WHICH HAS FALLEN,
AND I WILL REBUILD ITS RUINS,
AND I WILL RESTORE IT,
17SO THAT THE REST OF MANKIND MAY SEEK THE LORD,
AND ALL THE GENTILES WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME,'
18SAYS THE LORD, WHO MAKES THESE THINGS KNOWN FROM LONG AGO.


17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

And who does this God give these Gentiles to after they have turned to Him?

Acts 15:23-26
"The apostles and the brethren who are elders, to the brethren in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles, greetings.
24"Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls, 25it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Yes, by no other name can a man be reconciled to God.

The phrase the word of God is synonymous with the word of the Lord(Jesus,YHWH)


Acts 15:35
But Paul and Barnabas stayed in Antioch, teaching and preaching with many others also, the word of the Lord.

Sent by God, His Father and my Father. And to this day HE, my Lord and Savior, is advocating between me and His Father and my Father.

Just because you believe in ancient catholic doctrine over what is actually written, doesn't make all that is actually written untrue.


Acts 16:14-15
14
A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.

Who drew this woman to listen to the Spirit of Christ in Paul?

15And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.

John 4: 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

John 6: 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned "of the Father", cometh unto me.

Cherry picking Scriptures for the purpose of justifying an adopted religion is a popular practice of the preachers in this world's religions.

The Jesus "of the bible" doesn't advocate such a practice.

Below we see to believe in the Lord(Jesus) is the same as believing in God.

But just because a man calls Jesus His Lord, means very little. If fact, we are told that those men who preach in Christ's Name, cast out devils, and do missions and many wonderful works etc., "In Christ's Name", means nothing if the same religion rejects God's Judgments and Commandments.

This is why the Jesus "of the Bible" specifically warns about "Christianity", because they preach that just saying you believing in the image of God you all are promoting, is the same as believing in God. Calvinists preach the exact same philosophy.

In fact we see that they first believed in the Lord Jesus and later referred to that as believing in God therefore calling the Lord Jesus God !!
Acts 16:31-34
31
They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." 32And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. 34And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.

Who sent Jesus to them?

So we can see that Jesus was preached in the book of Acts as the only One who can save men from their sins. We see He is indeed the Savior. We see He was prayed to under the power of the Holy Spirit and that Jesus answered prayer. They also called the word of God the word of the Lord making Jesus equal with God. We also see that those who believed in the Lord Jesus actually believed in God, therefor calling Jesus God.

If you cherry pick through the Book of Acts, only posting Scriptures that can be twisted to Deny that God sent His Son, who was with Him before the world was, into this world as the Savior for men, no doubt you can find them. But when a man considers "ALL" that is written, you religion cannot stand, and this is why you refuse to answer my questions or acknowledge the Scriptures I post.

Acts 1: 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise "of the Father", which, "saith he", ye have heard "of me".

To continue with you is foolishness, because you are here on a mission to promote your religion. And I am here to examine and discuss Scriptures.

While these discussions are good for men to have, at some point it becomes vain jangling. Of course, you will want the last word, so you can have it.
 
God’s love is a love which chooses whom it will love ! For instances Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Its a love that is selective of whom He chooses to Love Deut 7:6-7


6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose[selected] you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

Mal 1:2-3

I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,

3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Jesus loved His own elect in the world Jn 13:1

Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
 
A unitarian god cannot know or experience love as a solitary person. That god is incapable of love for the scriptures declare that God is love. It is impossible for that god to love for there was nothing to love before creation. This god would need created beings to love him out of something lacking within his very nature. For someone to love there must be another to share in that love.


God is love because He loves within His own nature. God could not love if He was only one person. God would be contradicting Himself if He was not self sufficient. God is Love means that He has this ability to love within Himself. This is only possible if He is a tri-personal God whom the scriptures declare to be The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. That is impossible. It is an oxymoron.

The only viable answer to Gods love and that He is love is for God to be Triune in nature which would explain why and how God is love. A false god who is only a solitary person cannot know what love is as there is no one to love. That god is void of love by nature. The only viable answer to Gods love and that He is love is for God to be Triune in nature which would explain why and how God is love.

God is a personal, relational being by His very essence or nature. There are roles within the Godhead that have to do with the tri-personal nature of His being. The Father sends the Son, The Son submits to the Father. The Holy Spirit speaks of and honors the Father and the Son. Jesus said I and the Father are one. We clearly see the relationship of the Triune Godhead in the 14th-16th chapters of John.

Now it is very interesting that when we begin with God(Trinity) we see that He has designed not only man, but the family and the Church to represent and reflect His very own nature. God has designed this order and is clearly seen back in Genesis 1-2.

When God created the first 6 days He declared everything "was good". We read the only time in creation where God said otherwise was when He created man (who was made in His very own image). He used the plural form by saying LET US make man in OUR image after OUR likeness.

But God did not stop there. He said it was NOT GOOD for man to be alone. Why did God say this ? Man was created to be a relational being just like God (trinity). God created woman so that man would not be alone as God is not alone. The two would become ONE just as the Father and the Son are ONE.

Man was to procreate and have a family. Within the family unit Man is the head of the woman. The woman submits to the man. The Son submits to the Father. The Holy Spirit honors both the Father and the Son. The children are to honor their Mother and their Father. This reflects the very nature of God.

Now the same is true of the Church. Christ is the Head of the body. The body consists of Leaders(elder, pastors, teachers etc...)and the flock. The leaders submit to Christ and the flock is to submit to the leaders.

In the above we see the family(husband, wife and children) and the Church(Christ,leaders and the flock) are all designed to reflect the triune nature of God by the relationships and order of these institutions.

Conclusion:God is love because He loves within His own nature. God could not love if He was only one person. God would be contradicting Himself if He was not self sufficient. God is Love means that He has this ability to love within Himself. This is only possible if He is a tri-personal God.

hope this helps !!!
Your OP is a theological train wreck argument against God. Where to begin. This argument seems to be based on the flawed premise that love can only exist if there is more than one person present which doesn't make any sense because love is a quality, not necessarily a conditional status. For example, God is love not that God is love if others are present. (1 John 4:16)

You're also employing a false dichotomy which is extremely limiting on God and narrow minded. God does have love regardless of whether or not someone exists to experience it. The Bible says so in Ephesians 1:4 (NIV) "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love..."

You also suggest that God is not perfect of complete, but rather requires others in order to express love. Thus you have attempted to bring God down to your level and make Him bow down to your idol. Therefore, God is perfect and love is one of His inherent qualities rather than something He needed to attain. You severely limit God.

As I already stated, you bring God down to your level. You're thinking of God like one may think of themselves with other people in a relationship of some sort. You have a category error. Our emotions are complex, but they are primarily chemical reactions in our heads that produce those warm, fuzzy, butterfly love feelings. That is not how God operates, sir.

Too many things to go over here. Your argument is circular in reasoning and is only begging the question that God is a trinity in the first place.

I am going with the Bible. Who's joining?

John 17
1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
 
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