civic
Well-known member
if you were the only human and God nor animals existed would you know what love is and how to describe it ? yes or no
You see the answer tho that question reveals the flaw in a unitarian god.
hope this helps !!!
God is Love
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
You see the answer tho that question reveals the flaw in a unitarian god.
hope this helps !!!
Runningman
Well-known member
This is the same sort of flawed logic that your OP has. You are suggesting that love depends on others' existence which was already proven to be a train wreck argument in the response I already gave you; you just repackaged and rebranded your argument. Humans not only have the capacity to love but one of the fruits of the Spirit is love. God can absolutely produce love in someone regardless of if they are alone and that experience could be described.
Are you actually going to address my previous comment now?
civic
Well-known member
Nothing flawed about it since it’s common sense , logical and good reasoning. It’s also biblical and has spiritual insight into the nature, character and being of the God of the Bible.
Runningman
Well-known member
You seem to be the only one bearing witness of yourself. You must be perfect, too, right?
civic
Well-known member
No I'm bearing witness to God, scripture and the truth. It has nothing to do with me. Nice attempt at equivocating
Runningman
Well-known member
I wouldn't want to be you since you are apparently bearing false witness of God. Have it your way limiting God and rejecting Him. When or if you decide to respond to my comment I'll see it.
civic
Well-known member
God has revealed the Plural nature within His Being in many places in both testaments. So it’s upon solid ground I stand all other ground is sinking sand.
I have come to realize that the fact that the full story of GOD's interaction with man on this earth ends with a heavenly marriage implies that the heavenly marriage was HIS purpose for our creation. It is in the heavenly marriage that HIS GLORY shines forth the strongest and most perfect in relationship with us, NOT in justice nor redemption which are merely aids to bring the marriage to fruition after to our moral stumbles.
HIS plan for all creation was the heavenly marriage.
HIS plan for each of us is the heavenly marriage.
Everything HE has ever done or will ever do conformed to this purpose, this plan, and He has never done anything that would slow this plan down or put it off or side track it in the least!
It implies that ALL of HIS being, all of HIS Sovereignty, all of HIS love, HIS righteousness and HIS nature as just have one perfect focus, to culminate HIS relationship with HIS creation in the heavenly marriage: one plan, one focus upon an ultimate value.
Therefore:
Our free will is an absolute necessity, not fettered in the least by HIS directives or predeterminations NOR by any enslavement to sin.
Aside from the fact that GOD cannot create any evil so all sinfulness proves the free will of every individual sinner, it is also a fact that true love and true marriage can be arrived at only by the free will acceptance of the lover and acceptance of the proposal of marriage by the Bride. GOD is not a Borg willing to have a Stepford wife...
This implies that GOD would always save anyone who could be saved from their sins to become HIS Bride, and would never condemn them for any reason. No one is in hell who can be, could be, might be saved by any IF in reality... This also implies that only those who chose to eternally reject HIM as GOD and husband by a deep desire not to be involved in HIS plan would be, could be, passed over for entry into the marriage because they have a right to their free will decisions to choose such a path.
It implies that everyone ever created in HIS image, ie, able to be a proper Bride for HIM, was created perfectly capable and able to become HIS bride, not held back by any imperfection or lack of acceptance by HIM.
Isaiah 43:7, 21
7 "whom I created for my glory"
21 the people I formed for myself that they may proclaim my praise.
Ecc 7:29 Only this have I found: I have discovered that God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.” Upright: S3477, yashar, straightforward, just, upright:... GOD created no one disgustingly corrupt, enslaved to sin and unable to be HIS Bride whether by fiat or be forceing them to be born into the sinful line of Adam.
By their coming into being every single person must have been within HIS plan, not separated from HIM by anything until they decide by a mature free will to reject HIM and HIS plan. HE cannot marry an evil person so why would HE create by any means, any system at all being created into Adam or a sinful world including evil people? It is impossible. No one inherited any sinfulness from Adam nor any judgement for any another person's sin.
HIS plan for all creation was the heavenly marriage.
HIS plan for each of us is the heavenly marriage.
Everything HE has ever done or will ever do conformed to this purpose, this plan, and He has never done anything that would slow this plan down or put it off or side track it in the least!
It implies that ALL of HIS being, all of HIS Sovereignty, all of HIS love, HIS righteousness and HIS nature as just have one perfect focus, to culminate HIS relationship with HIS creation in the heavenly marriage: one plan, one focus upon an ultimate value.
Therefore:
Our free will is an absolute necessity, not fettered in the least by HIS directives or predeterminations NOR by any enslavement to sin.
Aside from the fact that GOD cannot create any evil so all sinfulness proves the free will of every individual sinner, it is also a fact that true love and true marriage can be arrived at only by the free will acceptance of the lover and acceptance of the proposal of marriage by the Bride. GOD is not a Borg willing to have a Stepford wife...
This implies that GOD would always save anyone who could be saved from their sins to become HIS Bride, and would never condemn them for any reason. No one is in hell who can be, could be, might be saved by any IF in reality... This also implies that only those who chose to eternally reject HIM as GOD and husband by a deep desire not to be involved in HIS plan would be, could be, passed over for entry into the marriage because they have a right to their free will decisions to choose such a path.
It implies that everyone ever created in HIS image, ie, able to be a proper Bride for HIM, was created perfectly capable and able to become HIS bride, not held back by any imperfection or lack of acceptance by HIM.
Isaiah 43:7, 21
7 "whom I created for my glory"
21 the people I formed for myself that they may proclaim my praise.
Ecc 7:29 Only this have I found: I have discovered that God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.” Upright: S3477, yashar, straightforward, just, upright:... GOD created no one disgustingly corrupt, enslaved to sin and unable to be HIS Bride whether by fiat or be forceing them to be born into the sinful line of Adam.
By their coming into being every single person must have been within HIS plan, not separated from HIM by anything until they decide by a mature free will to reject HIM and HIS plan. HE cannot marry an evil person so why would HE create by any means, any system at all being created into Adam or a sinful world including evil people? It is impossible. No one inherited any sinfulness from Adam nor any judgement for any another person's sin.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Good evening, Civic
Let me share with you how I see it.
If this is the only universe that has ever existed, then God did not spend time alone, because there was no “before”: the time-space fabric was created by God at the singularity of creation (the so called Big Bang).
On the other hand, if there have been an infinite number of universes before this one, God has never been alone, because He has always been creating creatures.
Both alternatives do not allow God to spend eternity alone.
As a Baha’i, I believe God has been a Creator forever. So, He has always had creatures to love.
All those creatures had an individual beginning, but God’s creative Power, Word, Wisdom or Logos, has always been inherent to God (John 1:1).
Runningman
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
The OP refutes your position and we know YHWH declares He is Plural
Runningman
Well-known member
YHWH is singular noun.
civic
Well-known member
who identifies as Plural in many places.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
In many? How many?
I can bet that God is presented in the Bible as a singular person, a "He", 99% of the times. Perhaps more.
I'm ready to take the challenge. I said 99%, perhaps more.
It will take us perhaps a month, but I am willing, if you are willing to accept, at the end of the counting, that the Bible overwhelmingly presents God as a singular person, with a singular mind, a singular will.
Now, if you start from the premise that Elohim shows YHWH's plurality, I invite you to ask those who know more about the Hebrew language, culture and religion: the Jews.
You may also want to discuss this first with Christian friends like @TomL , who believes that YWHW is Jesus Christ and therefore, not plural.
Runningman
Well-known member
Yet YHWH refers to Himself as a singular person or is referred to as a singular person in thousands of places. The Lord or God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is referred to in the New Testament as well. In such places, it proves that Jesus is not the same person as the God of Abraham, YHWH.
Here's another Unitarian prooftext.
Acts 3
13The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus...
civic
Well-known member
referring to one and not the other does not make the other false. that is your strawman.
Runningman
Well-known member
YHWH is God's name. No one else shares that name with Him.
civic
Well-known member
Yep the Son is YHWH
Runningman
Well-known member
Sorry, but that’s blasphemy. Jesus is not YHWH in Scrpture. Have you read Psalm 2:7 and Psalm 110:1?
Sorry scripture refutes you and attributes to Christ acts that are stated to be concerned with Jehovah
He is called adonai - lord God, master
and
we see More than one person is termed YHWH
Zechariah 2:6–11 (LEB) — 6 “Woe! Woe! Flee from the land of the north,” declares Yahweh, “for I have scattered you like the four winds of the heavens,” declares Yahweh. 7 “Woe, Zion! Escape, you inhabitants of the daughter of Babylon!” 8 For thus said Yahweh of hosts, after glory he sent me against the nations plundering you: Truly, the one touching you is touching the apple of his eye. 9 “Yes, look! I am going to wave my hand against them, and they will become plunder for their servants, and you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent me. 10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for look, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” declares Yahweh. 11 “Many nations will join themselves to Yahweh on that day, and they will be my people, and I will dwell in your midst. And you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent me to you.
