Why The Trinity is Wrong: Pronouns

Wrangler said:
The Creator of the universe is referred throughout Scripture over 5,000 times using singular pronouns, e.g., he, him, me, I. Trinitarians suppose all this should be subordinated to a verse or 2 where who God is talking to is ambiguous. For God so loved that world that he (singular) gave his (singular) only son.

A synonym for God is "father," such as Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. "Father" is a relational word that refers to a single individual and not a plurality. Although not a pronoun, "father" serves as a substitute for a singular being. Whereas there is a verse or 2 where God uses plural pronouns, there is not one single verse where God is referred to as the parents of Jesus. Yet, this has no significance for trinitarian dogma.
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In the Torah, God "Elohim" is a plurality.

To keep our simple brains from burning up we simply translate it in the singular.

Why do you think the Bible keeps needing to remind us that God is One?

Do we have to be told there is only one Jesus? No.
Do we have to be told that there is only one Holy Spirit? No.
Do we have to be told there is only one Father? No.

But, for some reason? We need to be told that "God" is one....

Those who understand the original languages need to know that "God" is one.
 
Wrangler said:
Senses of the same word. The word ‘god’ has a sense akin to master. It does not only have the sense of ‘the Supreme Being.’ Same with Elohim.
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So there is no word in the NT that makes the Father God exclusively. That doesn’t support the uni position very well.

Good to know :)
 
Wrangler said:
Senses of the same word. The word ‘god’ has a sense akin to master. It does not only have the sense of ‘the Supreme Being.’ Same with Elohim.
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That's a stretch if you want to use it. For most of us the context tells us.

For a "lord of the manor" is not to be equated on the same level as the Lord God.


AI is having its problems to work out, I see.
 
civic said:
So there is no word in the NT that makes the Father God exclusively.
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Sure there is and we’ve covered them many times!
  1. John 17:3 The father is the only true God.
  2. 1 Cor 8:6 there is one God the father.
  3. In every Epistle ‘God the Father’ is exclusively identified. (No god the son of god the HS - not one time).
 
Wrangler said:
Sure there is and we’ve covered them many times!
  1. John 17:3 The father is the only true God.
  2. 1 Cor 8:6 there is one God the father.
  3. In every Epistle ‘God the Father’ is exclusively identified. (No god the son of god the HS - not one time).
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No since Theos can mean anything like you said earlier that’s a bold contradiction. And John calls Jesus the True God.

So much for the “ only “ fallacy

hope this helps !!!
 
Also anywhere in scripture where God is called Lord or Sovereign can ONLY mean it’s the eternal Son since it’s Jesus who is called the One Lord , Only Lord, Only Sovereign in the NT. Refuting the uni argument is very simple to do as I just demonstrated.

hope this helps !!!
 
GeneZ said:
In the Torah, God "Elohim" is a plurality.

To keep our simple brains from burning up we simply translate it in the singular.

Why do you think the Bible keeps needing to remind us that God is One?

Those who understand the original languages need to know that "God" is one.
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Does the Bible need to keep reminding us that God is one; of both the OT and NT? I have never heard this type of statement before. I would think this reminder is unnecessary and would be self-evident within the text, especially when God is commonly understood as one person, at least into the 3rd century AD.
 
civic said:
No since Theos can mean anything
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No, it can’t mean anything. Words are defined. Not sure why retreat to a foreign language.
civic said:
like you said
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I said no such thing. Prove it.
civic said:
And John calls Jesus the True God.
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John says no such thing. Who is you lord, John or Jesus?

Jesus said the father is the only true God. That’s good enough for me. Why is that not good enough for you?
 
Wrangler said:
No, it can’t mean anything. Words are defined. Not sure why retreat to a foreign language.

I said no such thing. Prove it.

John says no such thing. Who is you lord, John or Jesus?

Jesus said the father is the only true God. That’s good enough for me. Why is that not good enough for you?
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Jesus is the Only Lord, the Only Sovereign so to bad for your argument about the Father as it just crumbled.

And nowhere does the Father in the NT say : I am God.

hope this helps !!!
 
civic said:
Jesus is the Only Lord, the Only Sovereign so to bad for your argument about the Father as it just crumbled.

And nowhere does the Father in the NT say : I am God.

hope this helps !!!
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Is the comedy hour currently on then? Are you kidding me. Show me the scripture that supports or disproves these (both) wild irresponsible statements civic. Is this really what you believe? Incredible....sometimes your writing is really sane and reasonable and then sometimes comes across as very outlandish and unbelievable.

I guess I will take it as amusement.
 
APAK said:
Is the comedy hour currently on then? Are you kidding me. Show me the scripture that supports or disproves these (both) wild irresponsible statements civic. Is this really what you believe? Incredible....sometimes your writing is really sane and reasonable and then sometimes comes across as very outlandish and unbelievable.

I guess I will take it as amusement.
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Jude calls Jesus the only Sovereign and Lord

Paul calls Jesus our One Lord, Only Lord.
 
Wrangler said:
I think this is one example of trinitarians attempting to change word meanings to suit their doctrine. According to https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/preeminence, preeminence does not mean first in any way. It only has one meaning, superioritiy.

Ergo, God is superior to Jesus - just as Jesus had said.
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God is superior to Jesus?, in what way? quantity, or quality, ..... *smile* just as in GREATER THAN..... and that only superiority?
well another word that is synonyms for preeminence is FIRST PLACE, when used as a Noun in, "The state or fact of being above others in status, rank or importance". this can be found at, https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/preeminence.html#C0-4

and the term "FIRST PLACE": First place can be defined as From the beginning, at the outset, before anything else.
As the first of several items in order of importance.
Before another in time, space, or importance.

and as you said, "A position of superiority or dominance" again it is synonyms for "FIRST PLACE". same link, just read under, "A position of superiority or dominance". this is just 2 easy not to understand.

101G.
 
civic said:
Jesus is the Only Lord
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This is a blatant lie since I've pointed out numerous times that there are dozens of lords in the Bible.

civic said:
Jude calls Jesus the only Sovereign and Lord

Paul calls Jesus our One Lord, Only Lord.
Click to expand...

I notice you make this claim but do not actually provide Scripture.

We all know the reason. Scripture does not state what you claim. Trinitarians desperately want it accepted that every reference to the lord is the Sovereign God but it is not true. Jude and Paul both refer to God (who alone is the Father) separately from Jesus.


May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Ephesians 1:2

I am writing to all who have been called by God the Father, who loves you and keeps you safe in the care of Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:1
 
Wrangler said:
In every way God is superior to his servant.
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this is the IGNORANCE 101G speak of. "W" who do you believe the Lord Jesus is? no, serious. let 101G give you his take.

#1. the Lord Jesus is God's OWN ARM in Flesh. do you understand this? .... guess not.

#2. as his "OWN" ARM ..... in Flesh in a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') state while on Earth as a Man, God himself redeemed and SAVE all that he Made in the beginning, without flesh, without bone, and without blood. do you understand that? again guess not.

#3. in his resurrection, the Lord Jesus is in Amalgamation of his OWN Spirit until he returns. do you understand that? guess not.

#4. since you do not KNOW THESE THINGS, Read Isaiah 63:5 and then read Isaiah 53, and you will see God, the Lord Jesus, as Father/Ordinal First, and Son/Ordinal Last. this is 2 easy not to understand.

101G
 

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