Why The Trinity is Wrong: Pronouns

[Fred]

Yeah I have Fred...'properly worship' I agree, as the triple emphasis with the 3 different descriptions of the Father God is evident in Gen 48:15-16. And Christ was never at the scene at that time, as he became the instrument of what the two descriptions of God and angel of God represented centuries later. Christ fulfilled all these three element and description of God.

So, the 1st mention of God is described as the author of salvation Hal-Elohim and, the 2nd time, the God who became a shepherd(fed) his people, and 3rd, the angel of God who represent the close trusted friend that redeems and saves. The same angel of God's presence is presented in Isaiah 63:8-11 and Gen 16:7-11.

(Gen 48:15) He blessed Joseph, and said, The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked, the God who has fed me all my life long to this day,
(Gen 48:16) the Angel who has ever redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads, and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac. Let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth. (NEV)

The thing is, the Messenger of YHWH who is the proper recipient of worship in Genesis 48:16 is described as a distinct Person.
2 Samuel 24:16
When the Messenger stretched out his hand toward Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD relented from the calamity and said to the Messenger who destroyed the people, “It is enough! Now relax your hand!” And the Messenger of the LORD was by the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.

This accords with Trinitarianism.

 

[APAK]

The thing is, the Messenger of YHWH who is the proper recipient of worship in Genesis 48:16 is described as a distinct Person.
2 Samuel 24:16
When the Messenger stretched out his hand toward Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD relented from the calamity and said to the Messenger who destroyed the people, “It is enough! Now relax your hand!” And the Messenger of the LORD was by the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.

This accords with Trinitarianism.

I understand the distinct personality of the/an angel or angel of the LORD as recorded. They all have distinct personalities. And 2 Samuel 24:16 does demonstrate this distinct personality of this angel of course as YHWH softens the blow because of David's Sin(s) as his apple of his eye. So where does evidence of the 'proper worship' of the actual angel come from, or for any angel for that matter?

These angel represent YHWH and these messengers are direct agents and actual mouth pieces of the Almighty's actual words, many times. They are viewed as YHWH himself that can be a strange thing to understand to the modern reader today.. If this is worship toward an angel, I have not seen this evidence yet, the worship is for/to YHWH only.

John fell down to an angel to worship it and got scolded...we are not to worship any angel and this angel of the Covenant or the one destroying Jerusalem in Samuel are not exceptions either.

 

[Fred]

So where does evidence of the 'proper worship' of the actual angel come from, or for any angel for that matter?

You already affirmed it is proper worship in post 239.

the worship is for/to YHWH only.

Which proves the Messenger being addressed in worship in Genesis 48:16 is YHWH.

John fell down to an angel to worship it and got scolded

That's not what happened in Genesis 48:16.

 

[DavidTree]

Normally, when Elohim is used of the one true God, the verb with it is singular. This goes contrary to normal Hebrew grammar because in Hebrew grammar the verb must agree with the noun in gender and number. Normally, one would expect that with Elohim, a plural noun, the plural verb would be used, which is true when it is used of false gods. Most of the time whenever the word Elohim is used of the true God, the verb used with it is in the singular number to prove that there is only one true God. But there are exceptions and these exceptions again open the door for the possibility of plurality in the Godhead.

For example, Genesis 20:13a reads:

Genesis 20:13 And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander ...

The Hebrew word that is translated "caused me to wander" is plural. Literally it reads, "And it came to pass, when They (in reference to God) caused me to wander..."

Another example is Genesis 35:7:

Genesis 35:7 And he built there an altar, and called the place Elbethel: because there God appeared unto him...

Here again, "appeared unto him" in Hebrew is a plural form which literally reads, "for there God appeared Themselves."

A third example being 2 Samuel 7:23:

2 Samuel 7:23 ... whom God went ...

Again, the Hebrew word for 'went' is plural, and literally reads, "...whom God They went..."

A fourth example is Psalms 58:11:

Psalms 58:11b "... verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth."

Again, the term "that judgeth" is a plural verb in Hebrew and literally it reads, "he is a God They judge."

Joshua 24:19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.

A jealous God - In the Hebrew, He is the holy Gods, holy Father, holy Son, holy Spirit. He will not endure a partner in his worship; you can not serve him and idols together. (Wesley)

"In the English translations, plural adjectives appear as nouns, but in the Hebrew text, these words are Hebrew adjectives. The adjective "holy" is a plural form which literally reads in the Hebrew "holy Gods""

Psalms 149:2 Let Israel rejoice in (his maker): let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.

"The adjective that is translated as "maker" is in Hebrew a plural so literally reads, "Let Israel rejoice in his Makers"

Ecclesiastes 12:1 Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;

"Again, the word "Creator" in Hebrew is a plural adjective and literally reads, "Remember now thy Creators..."

Isaiah 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

"(This verse) has two examples. In English the verse reads, "thy Maker, thine husband". But both the term "Maker" and "husband" are in the Hebrew text plurals and literally read, "For thy Makers, thy Husbands" in reference to God.

This too emphasizes the concept of a plurality (within God)"

**The majority of the information above comes from 'Ariel Ministries', Manuscript # 50 entitled "The Trinity" by Dr. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum, Messianic Jewish Hebrew scholar, - see http://www.ariel.org/amds.htm to read more of his works**

hope this helps !!!

Just came across this - excellent stuff and thanks for sharing.!

 

[DavidTree]

If we find instances of a plural corporate singular pronoun, the whole argument falls apart.

I don't find it particularly convincing.

God refers to the singular "Jacob" and "Israel" to mean all of the Jewish people.

There is no rule in the Bible or logic, that the word "God" must necessarily correlate in meaning to "Person," such that one God equals one Person, by definition—it just does not follow.

What the Scriptures declare to us(in brief)
a.) the hebrew word Elohim is plural
b.) the scriptures beginning in Genesis ch1 immediately establish Elohim as THREE
c.) the scriptures in Genesis identify for us who the THREE are
d.) the scriptures in Exodus verify who the THREE are from Genesis
e.) the Gospel of John verifies who the THREE are
d.) the Gospel of John verifies the THREE beginning in Genesis 1:1-3
f.) God lays a Firm Unmoveable Foundation in Genesis = His WORD

 

[101G]

To all,
there never have been any three persons in any trinity. this is a man made doctrine. when the LORD Jesus said, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

when the LORD said he was "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF" that put an end to any trinity. anything else is a LIE.
Witness #2. Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:"

if people do not get it that only ONE PERSON created all thing .... they are still lost in IGNORANCE.

one more Revelation of ONE PERSON, in the same scripture, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
"he" here is the LORD the same one person. "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb "

the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb " and he, he, that formed thee from the womb? scripture, Jeremiah 1:4 "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying," Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

so the WORD OF THE LORD FORMED JEREMIAH IN THE WOMB? yes, the Word of God is the same person who is the LORD, scripture. Isaiah 44:2 "Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen."

the Word of the LORD is the LORD ... the same one Person. Just as the Spirit of God is God... not some third person. Oh my...

101G

 

[charismaticlady]

To all,
there never have been any three persons in any trinity. this is a man made doctrine. when the LORD Jesus said, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

when the LORD said he was "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF" that put an end to any trinity. anything else is a LIE.
Witness #2. Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:"

if people do not get it that only ONE PERSON created all thing .... they are still lost in IGNORANCE.

one more Revelation of ONE PERSON, in the same scripture, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
"he" here is the LORD the same one person. "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb "

the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb " and he, he, that formed thee from the womb? scripture, Jeremiah 1:4 "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying," Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

so the WORD OF THE LORD FORMED JEREMIAH IN THE WOMB? yes, the Word of God is the same person who is the LORD, scripture. Isaiah 44:2 "Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen."

the Word of the LORD is the LORD ... the same one Person. Just as the Spirit of God is God... not some third person. Oh my...

101G

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

 

[101G]

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

GINOLJC, to all
did 101G deny the Lord Jesus as the Christ, (who is the Son?) no. and did 101G deny the LORD Jesus, (who is Father?) NO. so 1 John 2:22 do not apply to 101G.

now charismaticlady, 101G would like to ask you the same question, "is not the Lord Jesus the First who is the LORD all caps?" if you say no.... then READ, Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

and the "LORD" is the First, per Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

well now. if the Lord Jesus is the First in the Godhead, and not the LORD then the scriptures are in ERROR. but the bible says that the First is the LORD, per Isaiah 41:4. so that means if there are three persons in the Godhead, then teo of them is the same one person. for there is only ONE "FIRST", and only ONE "LAST", and the Lord Jesus said he is the First and the Last.

do you know what this means? THERE IS NO TRINITY. it's a false delusion.
Now, 101G will give you the benefit of the doubt to try and explain why the Lord Jesus is NOT the Father in TIME, PLACE, ORDER and RANK. If you can ..... by the scriptures prove that the Lord Jesus is not the FIRST, then you will not be in violation of 1 John 2:22.

the floor is yours.

101G.

 

[Johann]

GINOLJC, to all
did 101G deny the Lord Jesus as the Christ, (who is the Son?) no. and did 101G deny the LORD Jesus, (who is Father?) NO. so 1 John 2:22 do not apply to 101G.

now charismaticlady, 101G would like to ask you the same question, "is not the Lord Jesus the First who is the LORD all caps?" if you say no.... then READ, Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

and the "LORD" is the First, per Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

well now. if the Lord Jesus is the First in the Godhead, and not the LORD then the scriptures are in ERROR. but the bible says that the First is the LORD, per Isaiah 41:4. so that means if there are three persons in the Godhead, then teo of them is the same one person. for there is only ONE "FIRST", and only ONE "LAST", and the Lord Jesus said he is the First and the Last.

do you know what this means? THERE IS NO TRINITY. it's a false delusion.
Now, 101G will give you the benefit of the doubt to try and explain why the Lord Jesus is NOT the Father in TIME, PLACE, ORDER and RANK. If you can ..... by the scriptures prove that the Lord Jesus is not the FIRST, then you will not be in violation of 1 John 2:22.

the floor is yours.

101G.

Acts 20:27 - "For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God." This verse highlights the responsibility of sharing the complete message of God without holding back any part of it.

Romans 15:4 - "For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope." This verse underscores the value of the entirety of Scripture for our instruction and encouragement.

Ephesians 4:11-13 - "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ."

This passage emphasizes the role of various ministries in building up believers and guiding them towards spiritual maturity through the fullness of God's counsel.
These verses highlight the importance of proclaiming the entirety of God's message, ensuring that believers receive the complete truth and guidance from Scripture.

Wouldn't you agree? Why harping on Grammars when the good news, the cross, Jesus crucified and resurrected-grace-chen-indwelling of the Holy Spirit-sanctification-justification-and how about WE are to work out our OWN salvation with fear and trembling as well as a healthy, daily examination to see IF we are in/of the faith?

 

[101G]

This passage emphasizes the role of various ministries in building up believers and guiding them towards spiritual maturity through the fullness of God's counsel.
These verses highlight the importance of proclaiming the entirety of God's message, ensuring that believers receive the complete truth and guidance from Scripture.

Wouldn't you agree? Why harping on Grammars when the good news, the cross, Jesus crucified and resurrected-grace-chen-indwelling of the Holy Spirit-sanctification-justification-and how about WE are to work out our OWN salvation with fear and trembling as well as a healthy, daily examination to see IF we are in/of the faith?

Why harp on Grammer? do you not? as you said, "proclaiming the entirety of God's message, ensuring that believers receive the complete truth and guidance from Scripture". so, why should 101G tell a lie when in the SCRIPTURES it's plain as day that the Lord Jesus is the First, (LORD/Father), and the Last, (Lord/Son) just as the ECHAD states.

101G.

 

[101G]

@Johann,
this is the problem, U said,

when the good news, the cross, Jesus crucified and resurrected-grace-chen-indwelling of the Holy Spirit-sanctification-justification-and how about WE are to work out our OWN salvation with fear and trembling as well as a healthy, daily examination to see IF we are in/of the faith?

yes, but work in IGNORANCE? God winked at this IGNORANCE before, Acts 17:30 "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" yes, there is too many working out their own, yes own salvation without God guidance. the way they believe salvation should be..... well no, God is our example.

Now listen carefully, 1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," 1 Timothy 1:10 "For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"
see that agent "J", and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.
sound doctrine? and many say the trinity is hard to understand..... is that SOUND DOCTRINE? no, if it such a mystery why believe in it.

101G.

 

[Johann]

@Johann,
this is the problem, U said,

yes, but work in IGNORANCE? God winked at this IGNORANCE before, Acts 17:30 "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" yes, there is too many working out their own, yes own salvation without God guidance. the way they believe salvation should be..... well no, God is our example.

Now listen carefully, 1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," 1 Timothy 1:10 "For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"
see that agent "J", and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.
sound doctrine? and many say the trinity is hard to understand..... is that SOUND DOCTRINE? no, if it such a mystery why believe in it.

101G.

I had a shuffle with you-not going to go through that again since it is not edifying-no offense.

 

[101G]

I had a shuffle with you-not going to go through that again since it is not edifying-no offense.

LOL, that's the problem. you love darkness instead of LIGHT. see, you KNOW that the Lord Jesus is the First, the LORD who was in the OT, without flesh, bone or Blood. for the scriptures are clear. 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:" 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." but you love thew doctrine of men more than the TRUTH of God.

WHAT!..... the Spirit of who? .... Christ. and he was where? IN, IN, IN, them, the Prophets. but was it not the HOLY SPIRIT in them, the Prophets? 2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

Hold it, is the bible saying that prophecy came by two separate and distinct Spirits? no, the Spirit of Christ is the HOLY SPIRIT..... the same PERSON, who was IN, IN, IN, The prophets of OLD. this is just too easy not to understand.

but Good day.

101G.

 

[DavidTree]

To all,
there never have been any three persons in any trinity. this is a man made doctrine. when the LORD Jesus said, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

when the LORD said he was "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF" that put an end to any trinity. anything else is a LIE.
Witness #2. Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:"

if people do not get it that only ONE PERSON created all thing .... they are still lost in IGNORANCE.

one more Revelation of ONE PERSON, in the same scripture, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
"he" here is the LORD the same one person. "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb "

the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb " and he, he, that formed thee from the womb? scripture, Jeremiah 1:4 "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying," Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

so the WORD OF THE LORD FORMED JEREMIAH IN THE WOMB? yes, the Word of God is the same person who is the LORD, scripture. Isaiah 44:2 "Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen."

the Word of the LORD is the LORD ... the same one Person. Just as the Spirit of God is God... not some third person. Oh my...

101G

ho-hum-ben
here we go again
better off to chew gum

they cannot see THREE
'one' is to them the only sum
Abraham/Isaac/Jacob equal THREE
they just refuse to SEE

FATHER says to the SON
My HOLY SPIRIT is ONE
ONE in THREE
IS the Eternal Family TREE

 

[charismaticlady]

GINOLJC, to all
did 101G deny the Lord Jesus as the Christ, (who is the Son?) no. and did 101G deny the LORD Jesus, (who is Father?) NO. so 1 John 2:22 do not apply to 101G.

now charismaticlady, 101G would like to ask you the same question, "is not the Lord Jesus the First who is the LORD all caps?" if you say no.... then READ, Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

and the "LORD" is the First, per Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

well now. if the Lord Jesus is the First in the Godhead, and not the LORD then the scriptures are in ERROR. but the bible says that the First is the LORD, per Isaiah 41:4. so that means if there are three persons in the Godhead, then teo of them is the same one person. for there is only ONE "FIRST", and only ONE "LAST", and the Lord Jesus said he is the First and the Last.

do you know what this means? THERE IS NO TRINITY. it's a false delusion.
Now, 101G will give you the benefit of the doubt to try and explain why the Lord Jesus is NOT the Father in TIME, PLACE, ORDER and RANK. If you can ..... by the scriptures prove that the Lord Jesus is not the FIRST, then you will not be in violation of 1 John 2:22.

the floor is yours.

101G.

Hi 101G, this is weird. Aren't you 101G? You are speaking in the third person.

Jesus is the first and the last. He is also the Alpha and Omega.

Jesus is also God. And so is the Father and the Holy Spirit. They are all together in one God.

 

[101G]

ho-hum-ben
here we go again
better off to chew gum

why chew gum when the Word of the Lord is BETTER TO CHEW ON..... (smile).

they cannot see THREE
'one' is to them the only sum
Abraham/Isaac/Jacob equal THREE
they just refuse to SEE

and that's three separate human creatures, as the trinity has three separate Gods..... (smiles).

FATHER says to the SON
My HOLY SPIRIT is ONE
ONE in THREE
IS the Eternal Family TREE

My Holy Spirit? is this not the Lord Jesus? let's check the record. 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
the Lord Jesus is the advocate correct. let's see who the advocate really is.
advocate: G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter

What? 2. an intercessor? 3. a comforter? let's check the record.

2. an intercessor? Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered." Isaiah 59:16 "And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him."

3. a comforter? John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" Another Comforter? yes, the Lord Jesus. John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

so the Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit........ Hmmmmmm. the bible don't LIE.

101G.

 

[101G]

Hi 101G, this is weird. Aren't you 101G? You are speaking in the third person.

Jesus is the first and the last. He is also the Alpha and Omega.

Jesus is also God. And so is the Father and the Holy Spirit. They are all together in one God.

Hi Lady "C". yes, the "Lord" Jesus is the First and the Last in the Godhead. but is Not the "LORD" whom you call the Father, is he not the First and the Last? ....... same one Person. do you agree or not. if not produce scripture. for 101G can produce scripture to the Fact that the Lord and the LORD is the same First and the Last.

101G.

 

[DavidTree]

why chew gum when the Word of the Lord is BETTER TO CHEW ON..... (smile).

and that's three separate human creatures, as the trinity has three separate Gods..... (smiles).

My Holy Spirit? is this not the Lord Jesus? let's check the record. 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
the Lord Jesus is the advocate correct. let's see who the advocate really is.
advocate: G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter

What? 2. an intercessor? 3. a comforter? let's check the record.

2. an intercessor? Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered." Isaiah 59:16 "And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him."

3. a comforter? John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" Another Comforter? yes, the Lord Jesus. John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

so the Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit........ Hmmmmmm. the bible don't LIE.

101G.

Genesis = "Let Us make man in Our Image according to Our Likeness" = 3

Hmmmmmm. the bible does NOT lie !!!

Chew and Digest the TRUTH = If you can

 

[101G]

Genesis = "Let Us make man in Our Image according to Our Likeness" = 3

Hmmmmmm. the bible does NOT lie !!!

Chew and Digest the TRUTH = If you can

ok, the Lord Jesus already Chew on it for 101G, listen and Learn. Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?" Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,"

he, he, he, Made man male and female in the beginning. he is one person, and that one person is God. and how do 101G know that he is in reference to God? for our brother Make confirm that he is God just as the Lord Jesus said. Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female."

Dave did you chew on the Lord Jesus Words whom he do not LIE. now if you disagree with the Lord Jesus then you are saying that he LIED.

But, if you truly follow and believe the Lord Jesus, you will believe him, and go back to Genesis 1:26 and find out why he said US and OUR at verse 26, and UNDERSTAND why the Bible said HE and HIM in the very next verse ... verse 27.

see, the Bible never LIE we need to now understand why he said US and OUR and then said HE and Him in the very next verse.

now if you want to do that find, else you can stay in darkness, better known as IGNORANCE.

101G.

 

[charismaticlady]

Hi Lady "C". yes, the "Lord" Jesus is the First and the Last in the Godhead. but is Not the "LORD" whom you call the Father, is he not the First and the Last? ....... same one Person. do you agree or not. if not produce scripture. for 101G can produce scripture to the Fact that the Lord and the LORD is the same First and the Last.

101G.

“Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen.

Jesus is the first and the last.