Why The Trinity is Wrong: Juxtaposition

[Wrangler]

The 'word' again for the nth time is the word of the Father God or the 'word of God' as in the word of scripture also. Jesus contained this word of God and thus was called himself the 'word of God' as you mentioned in Rev 19:13.

I'm convinced trinitarians know the truth but feel better about relying on self-deception because that is how invested they are in their doctrine. As you say in your signature, "it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."

There is the literal words God spoke.

There is a title of the man Jesus, "Word of God."

These are not the same.

We say the Bible is the word of God. This is literally true. We also say Jesus has the title "Word of God." A man is not the same as the words in a book. "He" is not the same as "it."

They know this. The debate is an affront to their idolatry, plain and simple. We are like someone talking to an addict. They will use any rationalization to continue their addictive behavior.

It's always amusing to see how they twist and pivot. This thread is about how the trinitiy is wrong because of Juxtaposition between God and Jesus, which is everywhere in Scripture. They cannot really explain how the resurrected Jesus, in heaven sitting on God's throne STILL has a God. Rev 1:1, 3:12. It makes no sense and they know it. This is why they invoke mysticism, attempting to throw off the shackles of logic - while appearing to invoke logic. It is amazing how once one examines Scripture without putting on the trinitarian lens, how there is NOT ONE VERSE that supports their doctrine. Not one verse in 66 books!

 

[Doug Brents]

I'm convinced trinitarians know the truth but feel better about relying on self-deception because that is how invested they are in their doctrine. As you say in your signature, "it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."

There is the literal words God spoke.

There is a title of the man Jesus, "Word of God."

These are not the same.

We say the Bible is the word of God. This is literally true. We also say Jesus has the title "Word of God." A man is not the same as the words in a book. "He" is not the same as "it."

The Bible is the written words that come from God.
Jesus is also referred to as the Word of God. John 1:14 says that the Word became flesh (Jesus) and dwelt among us (humans). So then, It (the words of God) became a He (Jesus). I know this is a terribly difficult concept to accept, but if you are going to accept the Bible as God's inspired message to us, then you must accept what it says: the Word is God, and the Word became flesh (Jesus).

They know this. The debate is an affront to their idolatry, plain and simple. We are like someone talking to an addict. They will use any rationalization to continue their addictive behavior.

It's always amusing to see how they twist and pivot. This thread is about how the trinitiy is wrong because of Juxtaposition between God and Jesus, which is everywhere in Scripture. They cannot really explain how the resurrected Jesus, in heaven sitting on God's throne STILL has a God. Rev 1:1, 3:12. It makes no sense and they know it. This is why they invoke mysticism, attempting to throw off the shackles of logic - while appearing to invoke logic. It is amazing how once one examines Scripture without putting on the trinitarian lens, how there is NOT ONE VERSE that supports their doctrine. Not one verse in 66 books!

Yes, there is a difference between God the Father and God the Son (Jesus). Jesus emptied Himself, and made Himself lower than the Father, and He still is lower until Judgement. If Jesus knew when Judgement was going to be, then Satan could know when Judgement would be, and God doesn't want Satan to know, so Jesus cannot know.

There are numerous verses that say that Jesus is God. To deny that is to deny the Father, because if the Bible is God's written word, then when Jesus says that He is I AM, and when John says that the Word that became flesh was God, we cannot argue with those statements. If Jesus is not God, then He lied (which is a sin) and He cannot be our savior.

 

[APAK]

I've mentioned to @synergy numerous times how he is embarassing himself with many of his posts. He's too headstrong in defense of his manmade doctrine to care.

First there is ridicule, resistance, isolation and said big whoppers. After the storm passes I'm hopeful there with be sunshine and peace.

Dwight and Synergy and many others do not realize that this particular subject is their touchstone of trinity belief; especially in John1. This 'word,' its pronouns, were deliberately changed from 'it' to 'he' or 'him' centuries ago, as a major Trinitarian bias that has stayed with us today. They need to research these things and not take everything written or spoke especially in this critical area, as truth. They are following the religious sheep of Trinitarianism, on the wide common road where most feel secure and to me, driving spiritually 'blind.'

 

[Doug Brents]

First there is ridicule, resistance, isolation and said big whoppers. After the storm passes I'm hopeful there with be sunshine and peace.

Dwight and Synergy and many others do not realize that this particular subject is their touchstone of trinity belief; especially in John1. This 'word,' its pronouns, were deliberately changed from 'it' to 'he' or 'him' centuries ago, as a major Trinitarian bias that has stayed with us today. They need to research these things and not take everything written or spoke especially in this critical area, as truth. They are following the religious sheep of Trinitarianism, on the wide common road where most feel secure and to me, driving spiritually 'blind.'

The "He" pronoun was used (instead of she, or it, or the same) because in verse 14 we are told that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (the Apostles and disciples). The flesh that the Word became was a man, Jesus. So the proper pronoun for the Word is He. It is certainly proper to use the pronoun "the same" or "it" for the Word right up until it became flesh, and then it is most certainly and demonstrably a "He".

 

[civic]

I'm convinced trinitarians know the truth but feel better about relying on self-deception because that is how invested they are in their doctrine. As you say in your signature, "it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."

There is the literal words God spoke.

There is a title of the man Jesus, "Word of God."

These are not the same.

We say the Bible is the word of God. This is literally true. We also say Jesus has the title "Word of God." A man is not the same as the words in a book. "He" is not the same as "it."

They know this. The debate is an affront to their idolatry, plain and simple. We are like someone talking to an addict. They will use any rationalization to continue their addictive behavior.

It's always amusing to see how they twist and pivot. This thread is about how the trinitiy is wrong because of Juxtaposition between God and Jesus, which is everywhere in Scripture. They cannot really explain how the resurrected Jesus, in heaven sitting on God's throne STILL has a God. Rev 1:1, 3:12. It makes no sense and they know it. This is why they invoke mysticism, attempting to throw off the shackles of logic - while appearing to invoke logic. It is amazing how once one examines Scripture without putting on the trinitarian lens, how there is NOT ONE VERSE that supports their doctrine. Not one verse in 66 books!

Sure we can because Jesus remains a man in heaven hence He can say the Father is His God just like He did while He walked this earth. This is no problem for any Trinitarian since Jesus remains God Incarnate ( in the flesh ) eternally.

As God He is equal with the Father, One with the Father, has the exact same nature and attributes as the Father. And so on and so forth.

I can list over 160 names, titles and attribute they share as God. No man unless that man was also God could those things be said about anyone.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, there is a difference between God the Father and God the Son

Since the son is not God, there is a big difference.

 

[Wrangler]

This 'word,' its pronouns, were deliberately changed from 'it' to 'he' or 'him' centuries ago, as a major Trinitarian bias that has stayed with us today.

This is a demonstrable fact from what I wrote above - a word is an attribute of a being, not a separate being. In other words, no one need rely on revised history or text.

 

[civic]

Since the son is not God, there is a big difference.

That is your presupposition not ours. If one reads the Bible as if it was the first time without any indoctrination they would come to the conclusion that Jesus claimed to be God and He was God. That is the plain and simple meaning of the biblical text.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Wrangler]

The "He" pronoun was used (instead of she, or it, or the same) because in verse 14 we are told that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (the Apostles and disciples).

No. The subject changes from God's literal words to the ministry of Jesus. This shows the continuity from Deut 18:15-18 to the ministry of Jesus.

If what trinitarians desperately believe about John 1 were true, John 20:31, his purpose for writing the Gospel would state it, such as the purpose of this writing is to show that the nature of God is a trinity .... But that is NOT what any of the Gospels are about!

The Gospels are the good news that God has anointed a man to take away the sins of the world. No Gospel states God is incarnate or you must believe this as a condition for salvation.

 

[Wrangler]

Sure we can because

This confused me. Please explain what you "can do" relative to what I wrote?

 

[Wrangler]

That is your presupposition not ours

Not supposition - explicit word of God. See the difference?

You are the one who is supposing - contrary to the word of God.See the difference?

 

[Doug Brents]

Since the son is not God, there is a big difference.

There, you are arguing against God's direct statement that Jesus IS God. Doesn't it hurt your mind to argue against God?
The Word of God (John 1:1) that created everything that was created (John 1:3) that became flesh (John 1:14) was with God (John 1:1) and was God (John 1:1). Jesus said, Before Abraham was, I AM (John 8:58). And who is I AM? Was it not God who spoke from the burning bush to Moses?

 

[Doug Brents]

No. The subject changes from God's literal words to the ministry of Jesus. This shows the continuity from Deut 18:15-18 to the ministry of Jesus.

Yes, there is continuity from Deut 18:15-18 to Jesus, and God says that His Word became flesh and that flesh was the prophet that He raised up from Deut 18:15-18.

If what trinitarians desperately believe about John 1 were true, John 20:31, his purpose for writing the Gospel would state it, such as the purpose of this writing is to show that the nature of God is a trinity .... But that is NOT what any of the Gospels are about!

The Gospels are the good news that God has anointed a man to take away the sins of the world. No Gospel states God is incarnate or you must believe this as a condition for salvation.

Gospel (singular) because there is only one Gospel. Yes, John 1:14 says explicitly that the Word of God became flesh (a man, thus the male pronoun), and that Man is God in the Flesh (Col 2:9).

 

[Wrangler]

There, you are arguing against God's direct statement that Jesus IS God.

Nowhere could God say this IF Jesus is God. See how you contradict yourself? Who is doing the talking in saying that Jesus is God? LOL

Obviously, you are creatively interpreting what God said, such as his throne, which is OF God is where Jesus sits.

 

[APAK]

I'm convinced trinitarians know the truth but feel better about relying on self-deception because that is how invested they are in their doctrine. As you say in your signature, "it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."

There is the literal words God spoke.

There is a title of the man Jesus, "Word of God."

These are not the same.

We say the Bible is the word of God. This is literally true. We also say Jesus has the title "Word of God." A man is not the same as the words in a book. "He" is not the same as "it."

They know this. The debate is an affront to their idolatry, plain and simple. We are like someone talking to an addict. They will use any rationalization to continue their addictive behavior.

It's always amusing to see how they twist and pivot. This thread is about how the trinitiy is wrong because of Juxtaposition between God and Jesus, which is everywhere in Scripture. They cannot really explain how the resurrected Jesus, in heaven sitting on God's throne STILL has a God. Rev 1:1, 3:12. It makes no sense and they know it. This is why they invoke mysticism, attempting to throw off the shackles of logic - while appearing to invoke logic. It is amazing how once one examines Scripture without putting on the trinitarian lens, how there is NOT ONE VERSE that supports their doctrine. Not one verse in 66 books!

That is well said W. It does encapsulate quite a bit of what is going on around here.

 

[Doug Brents]

Nowhere could God say this IF Jesus is God. See how you contradict yourself? Who is doing the talking in saying that Jesus is God? LOL

Obviously, you are creatively interpreting what God said, such as his throne, which is OF God is where Jesus sits.

This makes absolutely no sense. Calm down, think and write objectively here.

Read the Scriptures that I posted where the Father and Jesus both agree that they are one. And add to them John 14:11. The Holy Spirit lives in all those who are born again, but that does not make them God, yet not only is the Father in Jesus, but Jesus is in the Father: they are ONE.

Let me ask you, who is worthy to sit on the throne of the King? No one except the King, or the one who is equal to the King. There is none who is equal to God except God Himself, yet Jesus sits on the Throne of God, because He is God.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That is well said W. It does encapsulate quite a bit of what is going on around here.

Why make such silly arguments that potentially equally apply to either side? Is that how you expect to win over a Trinitarian? By claiming to know something you can't possibly know?

I've changed significantly in my theology in the last 35 years. No. I don't know the teaching is false. I'm not afraid to admit I've changed. Monotheism such as you teach reflects the carnality of fallen man. You actually believe God is so egotistical and self centered that HE ALONE must have everything. I can't think of a more carnal doctrine in existence than your view of this "one god" you appeal to.

 

[APAK]

Why make such silly arguments that potentially equally apply to either side? Is that how you expect to win over a Trinitarian? By claiming to know something you can't possibly know?

I've changed significantly in my theology in the last 35 years. No. I don't know the teaching is false. I'm not afraid to admit I've changed. Monotheism such as you teach reflects the carnality of fallen man. You actually believe God is so egotistical and self centered that HE ALONE must have everything. I can't think of a more carnal doctrine in existence than your view of this "one god" you appeal to.

Well that is your personal definition of carnality. I will give you credit for being really candid in this post. It is a side of you now emerging for me. I hope it sticks around.

Thank you, a lot..APAK

 

[Wrangler]

Read the Scriptures that I posted where the Father and Jesus both agree that they are one.

Again, this is an expression still used today to mean you are on the same page as another - not the same Being as another.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Well that is your personal definition of carnality. I will give you credit for being really candid in this post. It is a side of you now emerging for me. I hope it sticks around.

Thank you, a lot..APAK

Can you elaborate on "side of you"? I'm curious. I do care what people think of me. Probably more than you think. I don't let it influence me in choices but I do honestly care.