Runningman
Well-known member
So you don’t believe the devil is real?
The Unitarian belief that Jesus is not God causes those who offer worship to the Father's Throne (where Jesus sits) to be guilty of idolatry.
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Runningman
Well-known member
I can tell you understood what I meant. Your heart is filled with malice. You should repent.What in the world is a "heard"??? More dirt poor English grammar on your part, I see. It's time you went back to school. Also, ask for your money back from all your English Teachers who failed to teach you Grammar.
If you're in my heart, as you claimed, then you're the malice that my heart is filled with.
It's time to flush that malice out.
Runningman
Well-known member
Runningman
Well-known member
Oh I just know the type of person you are. It’s obvious by the way you talk to people that your goal is you actually want to repulse people to Christianity. Whatever spirit that made you the way you are is not Christ like and no one wants anything to do with it. Not a good look for you especially when compared to the real Christians.If you're in my heart, as you claimed, then you're the malice that my heart is filled with.
Still addresses Jesus are my Lord and my God
28.] The Socinian view, that these words, ὁ κύρ. μου κ. ὁ θεός μου, are merely an exclamation, is refuted—(1) By the fact that no such exclamations were in use among the Jews. (2) By the εἶπεν αὐτῷ. (3) By the impossibility of referring ὁ κύριός μου to another than Jesus: see ver. 13. (4) By the N.T. usage of expressing the vocative by the nom. with an article. (5) By the utter psychological absurdity of such a supposition: that one just convinced of the presence of Him whom he deeply loved, should, instead of addressing Him, break out into an irrelevant cry. (6) By the further absurdity of supposing that if such were the case, the Apostle John, who of all the sacred writers most constantly keeps in mind the object for which he is writing, should have recorded any thing so beside that object. (7) By the intimate conjunction of πεπίστευκας—see below. Dismissing it therefore, we observe that this is the highest confession of faith which has yet been made;—and that it shews that (though not yet fully) the meaning of the previous confessions of His being ‘the Son of God’ was understood. Thus John, in the very close of his Gospel (see on vv. 30, 31) iterates the testimony with which he began it—to the Godhead of the Word who became flesh: and by this closing confession, shews how the testimony of Jesus to Himself had gradually deepened and exalted the Apostles’ conviction, from the time when they knew Him only as ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ Ἰωσήφ (ch. 1:46), till now when He is acknowledged as their LORD and their GOD.
Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 912.
My Lord and my God (ὁ κυριος μου και ὁ θεος μου [Ho kurios mou kai ho theos mou]). Not exclamation, but address, the vocative case though the form of the nominative, a very common thing in the Koiné. Thomas was wholly convinced and did not hesitate to address the Risen Christ as Lord and God. And Jesus accepts the words and praises Thomas for so doing.
A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 20:28.
Do you have anything but denial to offer?
Runningman
Well-known member
Satan is a common name for the devil in the Bible. Have you read what any commentators said regarding Jesus calling Peter satan? They disagree with you.
What you tout is not Christianity
You're the one who said you (malice) is in my heart. Malice is you. That's your statements. You throw insults my way and then you blame me for it. That's part of the Unitarian belief system, known as the intimidation system. Sorry, it ain't going to work here.
The word means adversary
and duh
'
I quoted one
Verse 23. Get thee behind me, Satan] Υπαγε οπισω μου σατανα. Get behind me, thou adversary. This is the proper translation of the Hebrew word שטן Satan, from which the Greek word is taken. Our blessed Lord certainly never designed that men should believe he called Peter, DEVIL, because he, through erring affection, had wished him to avoid that death which he predicted to himself. This translation, which is literal, takes away that harshness which before appeared in our Lord’s words.
Adam Clarke, The Holy Bible with a Commentary and Critical Notes (vol. 5, New Edition.; Bellingham, WA: Faithlife Corporation, 2014), 173.
23. Get thee behind me, Satan. The word Satan means literally an adversary, or one that opposes us in the accomplishment of our designs. It is applied to the devil commonly, as the opposer or adversary of man; but there is no evidence that the Lord Jesus meant to apply this term to Peter, as signifying that he was Satan or the devil, or that he used the term in anger
Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Matthew & Mark (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 172.
In any case there is no relation between this verse and John 20:28 where Christ applauded those who have not seen but affirm the sentiment
Runningman
Well-known member
The Bible doesn't teach anything about praying to Jesus or worshipping Jesus. It supports what I believe not you.
Runningman
Well-known member
Or Jesus called peter Satan (as in the devil.) That's still there. Since that's the case, it's proof that Jesus isn't God in John 20:28. It's a plausible argument regardless of how much you argue against it.
But you cannot prove that and so your objection to
John 20:28 (KJV 1900) — 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
is worthless
Actually it gives multiple examples of it
Matt 8:2And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
Matt 9:18While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.
Matt 14:33Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Matt 15:25Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Matt 28:9And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Matt 28:17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Hebrews 1:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Revelation 5:8–14 (NASB 2020) — 8 When He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are You to take the scroll and to break its seals; for You were slaughtered, and You purchased people for God with Your blood from every tribe, language, people, and nation. 10 You have made them into a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign upon the earth.” 11 Then I looked, and I heard the voices of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb that was slaughtered to receive power, wealth, wisdom, might, honor, glory, and blessing.” 13 And I heard every created thing which is in heaven, or on the earth, or under the earth, or on the sea, and all the things in them, saying, “To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing, the honor, the glory, and the dominion forever and ever.” 14 And the four living creatures were saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.
1 Corinthians 1:2 (NASB 2020) — 2 To the church of God which is in Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:
2 Corinthians 12:8 (KJV 1900) — 8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
Acts 7:59–60 (NASB 2020) — 59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.
1 John 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
John 14:13–14 (NASB 2020) — 13 And whatever you ask in My name, this I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.
Acts 1:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
All you have to offer is unbelief
MTMattie
Active member
Rinse and repeat. I have posted this before.
Two clear principles are shown to us in the Bible: Prayer is ordinarily directed to the Father, but we should also pray to the Son.
1. Prayer is ordinarily directed to the Father.
Jesus teaches us to pray to the FatherWhen his disciples asked Jesus to teach them how to pray, this is how he instructed them, “When you pray, say: ‘Father…’” (Luke 11:1-2). In prayer, we are to address God the Father. This is to be the norm; it is the pattern Jesus gives us to follow. In giving this instruction, Jesus is not forbidding prayer directed at other persons of the Trinity, he is showing us that prayer will ordinarily be directed to God the Father.
Should We Pray to Jesus or God the Father?
Two clear principles are shown to us in the Bible:1. Prayer is ordinarily directed to the Father.
Jesus teaches us to pray to the FatherWhen his disciples asked Jesus to teach them how to pray, this is how he instructed them, “When you pray, say: ‘Father…’” (Luke 11:1-2). In prayer, we are to address God the Father. This is to be the norm; it is the pattern Jesus gives us to follow. In giving this instruction, Jesus is not forbidding prayer directed at other persons of the Trinity, he is showing us that prayer will ordinarily be directed to God the Father.
This is a sentiment reflected by Paul. He writes to the Ephesian Christians how, “Through [Jesus] we… have access to the Father by the one Spirit” (Eph. 2:18). This is the posture of the whole Christian life, and the pattern for our praying: by the Spirit, through the Son, and to the Father.
The Spirit moves us to pray to the Father
As Paul explains the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer, he emphasizes how the Spirit gives us the confidence to approach God in prayer. In fact, it is by the Spirit that we cry, “Abba, Father” (Galatians 4:6; Rom 8:15). This is not incidental. Jesus himself cried out these same words in his own prayer (Mark 14:36). The Spirit is moving Christians to address Father in the same language that God the Son uses. Prayer is a way of expressing the sonship we have through Jesus.
Should We Pray to Jesus or God the Father?
Two clear principles are shown to us in the Bible:1. Prayer is ordinarily directed to the Father.
Jesus teaches us to pray to the FatherWhen his disciples asked Jesus to teach them how to pray, this is how he instructed them, “When you pray, say: ‘Father…’” (Luke 11:1-2). In prayer, we are to address God the Father. This is to be the norm; it is the pattern Jesus gives us to follow. In giving this instruction, Jesus is not forbidding prayer directed at other persons of the Trinity, he is showing us that prayer will ordinarily be directed to God the Father.
This is a sentiment reflected by Paul. He writes to the Ephesian Christians how, “Through [Jesus] we… have access to the Father by the one Spirit” (Eph. 2:18). This is the posture of the whole Christian life, and the pattern for our praying: by the Spirit, through the Son, and to the Father.
The Spirit moves us to pray to the Father
As Paul explains the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer, he emphasizes how the Spirit gives us the confidence to approach God in prayer. In fact, it is by the Spirit that we cry, “Abba, Father” (Galatians 4:6; Rom 8:15). This is not incidental. Jesus himself cried out these same words in his own prayer (Mark 14:36). The Spirit is moving Christians to address Father in the same language that God the Son uses. Prayer is a way of expressing the sonship we have through Jesus.
This is the normative shape of prayer and reflects the shape of the relationships within the Trinity: the Son lives by the Spirit to the Father. As we pray, we come in through Jesus into this eternal and happy dynamic.
2. Prayer should also be directed to the Son.
Yet, the New Testament does not prohibit prayer from being directed to Jesus (or the Spirit). In fact, there are many examples of people praying directly to Jesus.- As Stephen is being killed in the book of Acts, he prays, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit” (Acts 7:59).
- The penultimate verse in the Bible is a prayer to Jesus: “Amen. Come, Lord Jesus” (Rev 22:20).
- The apostle Paul himself prayed to “the Lord” (see 2 Cor 12:8, a title Paul frequently applied to Jesus).
Given the biblical precedent of praying to Jesus, and considering all that Jesus is to mean to his followers, it would be odd for a Christian never to pray to Jesus. In this sense, we should pray to him; it should be natural to cry out to him in adoration for all he has done and for help to follow in his footsteps. But we can also see that prayer should not always be directed to him. Jesus himself teaches us to pray to the Father.
The above is from https://www.christianity.com/wiki/jesus-christ/should-we-pray-to-jesus.html
reference
Acts 1:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
The Unitarian denier of prayer to Jesus affirmed the Lord is Jesus when confronted with 1 cor 8:6
thus also
2 Corinthians 12:8–10 (NASB 2020) — 8 Concerning this I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might leave me. 9 And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.10 Therefore I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in distresses, in persecutions, in difficulties, in behalf of Christ; for when I am weak, then I am strong.
The Lord here is Christ (context confirms)
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