Why The Trinity is Wrong: Juxtaposition

[Doug Brents]

And you don't recognize how that proves Jesus is NOT God? It explicitly says God resides in this man. This verse Col 2:9 depicts Jesus as a container, not the deity within the container. God resides within us also. Romans 8:9. Does that make us God? If not, why not?

The Holy Spirit (the third individual of the Godhead) resides in us, but only in so far as He gives us portions of Himself (1 Cor 12:4). But in Christ, the FULL DEITY dwells. Mankind is not deity, we are not the creator, Jesus IS (John 1:1-3).

 

[Wrangler]

The Holy Spirit (the third individual of the Godhead)

There is no Scripture for such a statement. In fact, it goes against Scripture.

Scripture has no ‘godhead’. That is a Pagan concept. Scripture says over and over again, there is only one God, the Father. Can you admit that?

 

[Doug Brents]

There is no Scripture for such a statement. In fact, it goes against Scripture.

There is only one God, but He is made up of three individual parts: the Father, the Son (Word, Logos, Jesus), and the Holy Spirit (Spirit of God). These three are one (1 John 5:7 - "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.").

Scripture has no ‘godhead’. That is a Pagan concept. Scripture says over and over again, there is only one God, the Father. Can you admit that?

This is incorrect. Rom 1:20, John 17:21, John 1:1-3, and others say that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are one.
In Col 2:9, deity is translated godhead in many translations, and also as divinity. These are all synonymous. Jesus is completely God in the form of man.

 

[Wrangler]

There is only one God, but He is made up of three individual parts: the Father, the Son (Word, Logos, Jesus), and the Holy Spirit (Spirit of God). These three are one (1 John 5:7 - "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.").

You know that is an incorrect translation, right?

Why do you suppose Scripture states many time only God the Father but never states God the Son or God the HS?

 

[Wrangler]

John 1:1-3, and others say that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are one.

Saying 2 persons are one is a figure of speech still used today to mean they are on the same page, not the same Being.

Jesus says @ John 17:1-3 that the father is the only true God. That's good enough for me. Why is it not good enough for you?

 

[Fred]

Jesus says @ John 17:1-3 that the father is the only true God. That's good enough for me.

Now you can answer the question that Apek dodged.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-only-true-god-john-17-3-the-only-master-jude-4.629/#post-16167

 

[Wrangler]

Now you can answer the question that Apek dodged.

It's like only others have to answer. John 17:1-3 the Father is the only true God. You say? Change subject ...

 

[Doug Brents]

You know that is an incorrect translation, right?

Why do you suppose Scripture states many time only God the Father but never states God the Son or God the HS?

Saying 2 persons are one is a figure of speech still used today to mean they are on the same page, not the same Being.

Jesus says @ John 17:1-3 that the father is the only true God. That's good enough for me. Why is it not good enough for you?

I didn't say that the two are one being. I said that the two beings are one God. God is a title, not a name. In John 17, Jesus is praying to the Father because at that time Jesus had been made a little lower than the angels (who are lower than God). But Jesus was still fully God. He emptied Himself of all His glory, power, authority, and majesty, but He retained His divinity.

Scripture does talk about God the Son: Isa 9:6 (as quoted in the NT), John 10:30, Matt 28:19, Matt 3:16-19, Col 1:15-17, John 14:9-11, Phil 2:5-8.

Scripture does talk about God the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God is mentioned many times, and sometimes in the same verse as the Father: Matt 28:19, Matt 3:16-19, John 14:17-18.

 

[Fred]

It's like only others have to answer.

Thanks for offering such a terrible excuse to hide.

Classic.

 

[synergy]

Well in John 1-3 the 'what' or 'it' does not refer to God or even his Spirit in this case. It refers to His word or logos that must be an 'it,' by scripture context and the of Greek into English language grammar rules. They cannot be violated. And then the translation that 'the word was God' is unfortunately misleading and in err. This 'what' or 'it' for this 'word' was divine, not God; eventhough God is the source of divinity and the sole Godhead. The word it is the core center of life within God. It is his core attribute. The 'what' is the word that means his expression, inner voice, mental faculties, reasoning, intelligence, that plans and causes things to happen in concert with his Spirit, as in the Creation Genesis. The word of God conceives the initial idea as part of his plan and his Holy Spirit executes it as his power.

And in 1 John, the 'word of life' or the word of his Father God was living in Jesus that they saw, heard and touched. Jesus became the very image of his Father God. He became a human being with the word of his God as John 1:14a says. This was the first and only time that God placed his word 'outside' himself, within a spirit of his human creation - his Son.

And yes of course as in 1 John 5:11..this 'word of life' came from his Father and was placed from his birth IN HIS SON indeed. So the 'word' never changes ITS gender it is always a neuter gender when translated into English.

I hope this clears it all up for you from my perspective.

Thanks for the opportunity - APAK

Permit me to introduce you to the Word of God. Do tell us how a spoken word, an "it" in your words, can ride a horse, have eyes, have a head, wear a crown, wear a garment, etc... This should be interesting....

Rev 19:11 And I saw Heaven opened. And behold, a white horse! And He sitting on him was called Faithful and True. And in righteousness He judges and makes war.
Rev 19:12 And His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head many crowns. And He had a name written, one that no one knew except Himself.
Rev 19:13 And He had been clothed in a garment dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, so that with it He should strike the nations. And He will shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the wine of the anger and of the wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And He has on His garment, and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

 

[Wrangler]

Do tell us how a spoken word, an "it" in your words, can ride a horse, have eyes, have a head, wear a crown, wear a garment, etc... This should be interesting....

You are confusing a person who does these things with his motivation to do these things.

I know you know this but you just play your little trinitarian games AS IF there is no possible explanation or interpretation than your nonsensical take.

What is the personal name of the 3rd person?

 

[Truther]

How about the Greek Interlinear? It says "Godhead" also.

.. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man(Mary's son) which is in heaven.

 

[synergy]

You are confusing a person who does these things with his motivation to do these things.

I know you know this but you just play your little trinitarian games AS IF there is no possible explanation or interpretation than your nonsensical take.

What is the personal name of the 3rd person?

Any grievances you have with how John described the Word of God in Rev 19:11-16 can be registered at your nearest Church.

 

[dwight92070]

Well in John 1-3 the 'what' or 'it' does not refer to God or even his Spirit in this case. It refers to His word or logos that must be an 'it,' by scripture context and the of Greek into English language grammar rules. They cannot be violated. And then the translation that 'the word was God' is unfortunately misleading and in err. This 'what' or 'it' for this 'word' was divine, not God; eventhough God is the source of divinity and the sole Godhead. The word it is the core center of life within God. It is his core attribute. The 'what' is the word that means his expression, inner voice, mental faculties, reasoning, intelligence, that plans and causes things to happen in concert with his Spirit, as in the Creation Genesis. The word of God conceives the initial idea as part of his plan and his Holy Spirit executes it as his power.

And in 1 John, the 'word of life' or the word of his Father God was living in Jesus that they saw, heard and touched. Jesus became the very image of his Father God. He became a human being with the word of his God as John 1:14a says. This was the first and only time that God placed his word 'outside' himself, within a spirit of his human creation - his Son.

And yes of course as in 1 John 5:11..this 'word of life' came from his Father and was placed from his birth IN HIS SON indeed. So the 'word' never changes ITS gender it is always a neuter gender when translated into English.

I hope this clears it all up for you from my perspective.

Thanks for the opportunity - APAK

Your "interpretation" is over the top confusion. There's nothing clear about it. It was written simply and clearly to be taken at face value, but you take it and throw in a bunch of so-called grammar rules and supposed knowledge of Greek, and take it totally out of context and end up with a total mess that you probably call exogesis. It's anything but that. The context is speaking of "He" and "Him", i.e. a "person" who was with God and was God and was in the beginning, and then that Person became flesh. But all of that contradicts your obvious misunderstanding of the simple text. It just shows the lengths that people will go to, to confuse the simple meaning of the Bible, so that the average person won't come to the obvious conclusion that Jesus is God.

 

[Wrangler]

Any grievances you have with how John described the Word of God in Rev 19:11-16 can be registered at your nearest Church.

No grievance. And not an answer to my question.

 

[APAK]

Permit me to introduce you to the Word of God. Do tell us how a spoken word, an "it" in your words, can ride a horse, have eyes, have a head, wear a crown, wear a garment, etc... This should be interesting....

Rev 19:11 And I saw Heaven opened. And behold, a white horse! And He sitting on him was called Faithful and True. And in righteousness He judges and makes war.
Rev 19:12 And His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head many crowns. And He had a name written, one that no one knew except Himself.
Rev 19:13 And He had been clothed in a garment dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, so that with it He should strike the nations. And He will shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the wine of the anger and of the wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And He has on His garment, and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Are you serious, I hope you are joking as the joke must be on you. Read my post again, slowly and carefully for meaning not as a surprising childish ridicule. Talk about self-inflicted embarrassment.

The 'word' again for the nth time is the word of the Father God or the 'word of God' as in the word of scripture also. Jesus contained this word of God and thus was called himself the 'word of God' as you mentioned in Rev 19:13. He carries it within him and it guided and commanded his thoughts; they were completely his Father's thoughts. Why are you slow in understanding all this? He possessed it whilst on earth and Jesus made mention of it many times.

Again if you still did not get it. 'It' the word became resident within his son who became the word of God. So no an 'it; does not ride a horse.

Now in the 601 class you can learn that this 'it' for 'word' can be personalized as being of the Father God, and therefore be called 'he,' if and only if it is understood that the Father God is the source of the word, the 'it.' 'It' is of the Father therefore 'he,' the Father revealed or manifested himself within the Son (flesh) with ''it' that is HIS 'word.' Get all that? So the word is never originally from Jesus. He was given it, possessed by it, even today.

God is in him and eventually all believers with be the same, in the Kingdom when the Son hands the Kingdom back to his Father God. God can then be in all as he is in his Son today. The restoration of mankind will then be complete.

 

[dwight92070]

Are you serious, I hope you are joking as the joke must be on you. Read my post again, slowly and carefully for meaning not as a surprising childish ridicule. Talk about self-inflicted embarrassment.

The 'word' again for the nth time is the word of the Father God or the 'word of God' as in the word of scripture also. Jesus contained this word of God and thus was called himself the 'word of God' as you mentioned in Rev 19:13. He carries it within him and it guided and commanded his thoughts; they were completely his Father's thoughts. Why are you slow in understanding all this? He possessed it whilst on earth and Jesus made mention of it many times.

Again if you still did not get it. 'It' the word became resident within his son who became the word of God. So no an 'it; does not ride a horse.

Now in the 601 class you can learn that this 'it' for 'word' can be personalized as being of the Father God, and therefore be called 'he,' if and only if it is understood that the Father God is the source of the word, the 'it.' 'It' is of the Father therefore 'he,' the Father revealed or manifested himself within the Son (flesh) with ''it' that is HIS 'word.' Get all that? So the word is never originally from Jesus. He was given it, possessed by it, even today.

God is in him and eventually all believers with be the same, in the Kingdom when the Son hands the Kingdom back to his Father God. God can then be in all as he is in his Son today. The restoration of mankind will then be complete.

Everything Synergy said was from the Word of God. Everything you said was from your own imagination, wishful thinking, and eisegesis. And that's not a joke. Even the Greek Interlinear calls the Word "Him" three times in the first four verses, once in verse 7, "he" in verse 10 and "him" twice in verse ten, "he", "his" twice, "he" once and "him" once in verse 11, etc. etc. It just keeps going - all are references to the Word, who is Jesus and God.

 

[synergy]

Are you serious, I hope you are joking as the joke must be on you. Read my post again, slowly and carefully for meaning not as a surprising childish ridicule. Talk about self-inflicted embarrassment.

As usual, you rarely if ever refer to a Bible verse to support your presuppositions.

The 'word' again for the nth time is the word of the Father God or the 'word of God' as in the word of scripture also. Jesus contained this word of God and thus was called himself the 'word of God' as you mentioned in Rev 19:13. He carries it within him and it guided and commanded his thoughts; they were completely his Father's thoughts. Why are you slow in understanding all this? He possessed it whilst on earth and Jesus made mention of it many times.

Again if you still did not get it. 'It' the word became resident within his son who became the word of God. So no an 'it; does not ride a horse.

Now in the 601 class you can learn that this 'it' for 'word' can be personalized as being of the Father God, and therefore be called 'he,' if and only if it is understood that the Father God is the source of the word, the 'it.' 'It' is of the Father therefore 'he,' the Father revealed or manifested himself within the Son (flesh) with ''it' that is HIS 'word.' Get all that? So the word is never originally from Jesus. He was given it, possessed by it, even today.

Revelation is a record of all the things that John literally saw (Rev 1:2).

(Rev 1:2) who bore record of the Word of God and of the testimony of Jesus Christ and of all the things that he saw.

These were a literal vision of John, not personalized nebulous metaphors. The Word of God is an actual "He" who can ride a horse, have eyes, have a head, wear a crown, wear a garment, etc... If you have a grievance on how John described the Word of God then you can register your complaint at the nearest Church.

God is in him and eventually all believers with be the same, in the Kingdom when the Son hands the Kingdom back to his Father God. God can then be in all as he is in his Son today. The restoration of mankind will then be complete.

(Col 2:9) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Wow! You must be really special to place yourself on the same God-nature fullness that only the Word of God (Jesus) possesses and always did possess. We do possess the gift of the Holy Spirit but that does not change our nature from human nature to God nature. Only Jesus is said to possess the fullness of God nature.

 

[synergy]

Everything Synergy said was from the Word of God. Everything you said was from your own imagination, wishful thinking, and eisegesis. And that's not a joke. Even the Greek Interlinear calls the Word "Him" three times in the first four verses, once in verse 7, "he" in verse 10 and "him" twice in verse ten, "he", "his" twice, "he" once and "him" once in verse 11, etc. etc. It just keeps going - all are references to the Word, who is Jesus and God.

The depths that Unitarians go to denigrate the Word of God is profound! They're calling into question what John actually said he literally saw and recorded.

 

[Wrangler]

Talk about self-inflicted embarrassment.

I've mentioned to @synergy numerous times how he is embarassing himself with many of his posts. He's too headstrong in defense of his manmade doctrine to care.