Why The Trinity is Wrong: Juxtaposition

[Burdock]

Jesus is one of the Trinity, and he died on the cross. Christology 101. Even at the introductory level Christology is best undertaken in the context of the doctrine of the Trinity. Recognizing Jesus as one of the Trinity is a conceptual breakthrough that throws light on all the great central beliefs of Christianity.

How could anything so right possibly go wrong? Easy, just add human logic and it's like multiplying complexity times complexity, or explaining one unclear thing by another thing even more unclear.

Our Lord comes to us in different relations as three persons yet as the one and only God. If you want to live a victorious Christian life You need to experience the one God above us, beside us, and in us, The Trinity.

 

[APAK]

That's real convenient for you, isn't it? If we wish to disagree with you, John 1:14 is off limits? Just because you say so? NO part of scripture is to be ignored. Of course it's off limits, because it disproves your so-called interpretation. Using ANY verse in the Bible pertaining to this topic, and contradicting your opinion, is NOT building on sand. John 1:14 is the word of God, not circular, illogical reasoning. It's too bad you have such a low opinion of God's word.

A "WHAT" cannot BE God and it cannot become flesh, and dwell among us. ONLY a "WHO" can BE God and become flesh, and dwell among us. So you're wrong right from the start.

John is an extremely powerful book, clearly displaying the evidence of the Trinity and the substance of the Deity of Jesus and especially John 1 - which is why all of you non-Trins attack it over and over. But to no avail. You are wrong. The Bible is right.

Even 1 John 1:1 disproves your faulty interpretation: "What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life ..."

I know what you're thinking. John says "what" not "who". Correct but what is the "what" he is referring to? He tells us the "what" is the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us. That eternal life, 1 John 5:11 tells us, IS IN HIS SON, and He is a "WHO", not a "WHAT".

John and the other apostles heard Jesus, saw Jesus, looked at Jesus, and touched Jesus, and He WAS ETERNAL LIFE in the flesh, and before coming to earth, He was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Also a "WHAT" cannot have gender and yet the WORD is referred to as "He" in verse 2; in verse 3 the WORD is called "Him" two times; and again "Him" is used in verse 4.

Jesus is also called "The Word of God" in Revelation 19:13. The Bible itself shuts down your argument.

Dwight you are getting all worked up over nothing. You are again all over the page with no sound and clear conclusions.

I recommend cutting down on the emotionally charge words and ravings. Become more objective and discuss only one or two areas of scripture you disagree with me, per post. Lends for a much better discussion imo.

Reflect on this post of yours for a minute. What are you expectations of me? To actually respond to all your editorial comments and for me to decide or to take a wag at what you want from me? Tell me what you want me to answer, more clearly and concisely. Thanks.

 

[Administrator]

Let's get back on track here please.

 

[APAK]

But i do understand them.
I do understand "God manifested in the flesh" who was the "WORD" who "was God", in John 1.

One day, you might also.

Fantasy Behold. I bet you completely ignored my post because of the power of those Trinity lens possessing you for far too long. Just take them off even for a day. Can you do it...? You might see the light..

The Father God, his own word, via his own Holy Spirit became resident in a human being for the very first time in history Behold. This is the manifestation you are speaking of. It is impossible for God to become a human being. It is possible and it did happen that God was IN (manifested) the human being we call Jesus however. God (his word(s) of expression, words, voice and attributes) IN Jesus does not equal Jesus is God....Jesus became the word of God, not that Jesus WAS or owned the word of his Father himself. How could he own the word, it was his Father's. It, the word, was working within his Son.

There are many many verses in the NT that attest that the word of his Father was working through his Son Behold. There is zero scripture saying the word was Jesus and he worked alone and never worked as one through his Father. Without the word of his Father working within Jesus, Jesus would never have met the Cross and we would be all still lost in our sins. It is that important to know this difference I'm pointing out here.

 

[APAK]

Let's get back on track here please.

I hope you are not writing to me as my post to Dwight was to do just that...get back on track. Can you offer any other way...maybe ignore him might be another option I guess.

 

[Wrangler]

That's next to impossible.

I see. It is expected Jesus to rebuke Thomas but nearly impossible for him to rebuke those in Nazareth who said he is the son of Joseph.

 

[Wrangler]

You can be sure if Jesus was not God, that He would definitely have corrected Thomas.

Conveniently, Jesus we definitely NOT have corrected Thomas if he took it as the exclamation it was.

Also, you are extrapolating that ‘my favorite food’ ought to be everyone’s; Thomas’ God ought to be everyone’s.

There is only one true God according to Jesus, the Father. That’s good enough for me. Why is it not good enough for you?

He wanted people to

You are certainly comfortable projecting intent onto your Lord. Take what he does say (God is greater than me) and throw it in the trash to impose your supposition of his intent to create a back door ‘support’ your doctrine. What a joke!

 

[Wrangler]

I’d be violating:

1. Definition
2. Logic
3. Language Usage
4. Violate 1C
5. Violate 2C
6. Deny the Sh’ma.
7. Violate Roman’s 10:9, thereby abdicate my Salvation
8. Deny Mark 1:1
9. Deny Christ’s confession that he has a God and his God is the only true God.
10. Lose our only mediator to God.

Your turn. What would change for you if Jesus actually were NOT God?

I answered your question.

No. You did not even make an attempt to answer my question.

 

[Behold]

Fantasy Behold.

"God manifested in the Flesh" is the one in 1 John 1:10 and the one is Colossians 1:16.

The Word was God who became a man and dwelt among us.

Jesus = Emmanuel = God with us

And you recognize that only God can give the Holy Spirit.

He did it quite a few times.
Here are 2....

He gave the HS to Adam in Genesis 2:6
He gave it to the 11 Apostles in John 20:22

 

[Truther]

Jesus taught us to pray only to God the Father, who he said is the only true God. Jesus did not teach the trinity. Profound.

You are disregarding your Lord in favor of your manmade doctrine.

I mainly pray to this person....

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


You can't skip the mediator.

 

[Truther]

Good question, Truther


A.) Divine equivalency


1.) "You believe in God..... believe also in Me".... Jesus said

2.) "I and my Father are "one"

3.) "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father"

4.) "Thomas (said to Jesus)...= My Lord and my God".....

5.) "And Jesus was in the world and the world was MADE BY HIM".... John 1:10 = Colossians 1:16


Notice this, ...

God Spoke the word of Creation, and creation appeared.... "God said, LET THEIR BE">.. and it all became.

Jesus is the pre-incarnate "WORD who was GOD" John 1

God SPOKE and Jesus is the WORD.... pre-incarnate., and incarnate as the "Word became Flesh"

Who is THIS?

A.) "let US make man in OUR image."""

See those 2? That is God the Father and Jesus pre-incarnate.

Add the Holy Spirit and you have 3 as One

What a cherry pickin' mess(above).

God is inside Jesus(Mary's son), speaking and working through him since the foundation of the world.

 

[Truther]

Godhead? Explain what you mean by Godhead.

Yes they are persons, not apples.

1/3 what?

God is comprized of 3 units of measurement, now?

 

[Wrangler]

I mainly pray to this person....

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


You can't skip the mediator.

Huh? Just because there is a mediator, does not men you cannot talk directly to God.

What you say contradicts Christs teaching us to pray only to God who alone is the Father.

 

[Fred]

What you say contradicts Christs teaching us to pray only to God who alone is the Father.

Pray to Christ = Pray to God.

 

[Behold]

What a cherry pickin' mess(above).

God is inside Jesus(Mary's son), speaking and working through him since the foundation of the world.

"The Word was God"< who is "God manifested in the Flesh", Virgin Born.

Jesus said....."i am from Above, and you are from Below".

That is Jesus describing His "Pre-incarnate self", as He's standing on earth, talking, as "God manifested in the Flesh".

Its amazing, isn't it.. That God became a man.. that God became one of us, to offer Salvation (His own body) to all of us.

God wrapped Himself in human flesh, and offered this to the world as .. "God hath made JESUS to be sin for us".

So, how to "see it".. .You have to see it by faith, exactly as you give your faith to God in CHRIST whom you can't see.

Listen ,
Christianity is SPIRITUAL....... you can't SEE IT., but its TRUE and REAL.

 

[Wrangler]

Pray to Christ = Pray to God.

Proof the trinity is wrong.

My church prays to God in Christ's name.

 

[Fred]

Proof the trinity is wrong.

No such proof exists.

My church prays to God in Christ's name.

No, it doesn't.

 

[Wrangler]

No such proof exists.

The only proof is the trinity is false. There is no trinity in Scripture - not the name and not the concept.

 

[dwight92070]

"God manifested in the Flesh" is the one in 1 John 1:10 and the one is Colossians 1:16.

The Word was God who became a man and dwelt among us.

Jesus = Emmanuel = God with us

And you recognize that only God can give the Holy Spirit.

He did it quite a few times.
Here are 2....

He gave the HS to Adam in Genesis 2:6
He gave it to the 11 Apostles in John 20:22

I think you mean Genesis 2:7 and that was NOT the Holy Spirit. That was Adam's spirit which made him come alive. Before God did that, his body was DEAD. The body without the spirit is DEAD. WE have NO record of Adam receiving the Holy Spirit - but he may have later.

Jesus WAS imparting the Holy Spirit to the 11, because He said: "RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT" Notice that they ALREADY had their own spirit, or they too, would have been dead. Notice also that He did not force them to receive it. He simply commanded them to - and they obeyed and DID.

 

[Doug Brents]

Your turn. What would change for you if Jesus actually were NOT God?

If Jesus is not God, then we lose everything.
If Jesus is finite, then He can only absolve a finite amount of sin. If I was able to live a completely sinless life, and was willing to offer my life in exchange for your death at Judgement, my finite life would only be able to cover you, not anyone else. Yet Jesus is the covering for sin for the entire world (past, present, and future). There would be no salvation for more than one person if Jesus is not God.

He said He was God (John 8:58, Mark 2:5-7, John 17:5, ). So if He is not God, then He lied and is not able to save anyone at all anyway.

And if Jesus is not God then we cannot trust the Bible at all, because it clearly states that the full deity of God resided in Jesus in His bodily form (Col 2:9).

So if Jesus is not God, then our hope is meaningless, our faith is worthless, and our future is nothingness.