Why The Trinity is Wrong: Juxtaposition

[Wrangler]

"""Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, `The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, `What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?" God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM.""


Jesus said... "Before Abraham was born, ... I AM">..

Yes, we all say I am. However, this is not God's name.

If someone asks you what is your name and you might begin by saying that your name is Irish. And the next sentence state your name, Patrick. It is deliberate willful ignorance to claim the person meant by "Irish" that is your name rather than an attribute of you/your name.

Beyond that, neither Jesus nor God uttered the Great I am. The actual words of the almighty here are more appropriately translated as ETERNAL. God answered Moses by first identifying his defining characteristics, making him unique among the gods of the area. Then, he explicitly identified his name. Why do you suppose God said his name YHWH is to be rememered for all generations?

 

[Behold]

..... the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.


Was Jesus the "I am" or was the "I am" speaking through Jesus?

Good question, Truther


A.) Divine equivalency


1.) "You believe in God..... believe also in Me".... Jesus said

2.) "I and my Father are "one"

3.) "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father"

4.) "Thomas (said to Jesus)...= My Lord and my God".....

5.) "And Jesus was in the world and the world was MADE BY HIM".... John 1:10 = Colossians 1:16


Notice this, ...

God Spoke the word of Creation, and creation appeared.... "God said, LET THEIR BE">.. and it all became.

Jesus is the pre-incarnate "WORD who was GOD" John 1

God SPOKE and Jesus is the WORD.... pre-incarnate., and incarnate as the "Word became Flesh"

Who is THIS?

A.) "let US make man in OUR image."""

See those 2? That is God the Father and Jesus pre-incarnate.

Add the Holy Spirit and you have 3 as One

 

[Behold]

Yes, we all say I am. However, this is not God's name.

Beyond that, neither Jesus nor God uttered the Great I am.

God isn't Irish.

Jesus never claimed to be the Lamb of God, as John the Baptist make that pronouncement, and its a FACT.

So, once again, we understand some truths, by discernment, and we dont have to have it written on the wall for us to understand it.

The Reason that Jesus's blood forgives the sin of the world is because this is God's Blood.

Jesus was conceived by the HOLY Spirit.
The woman's blood, (Mary) did not run in Jesus's veins..
You understand that your BLOOD TYPE comes from your male parent.?????

See that?

That's GOD become a man... conceived by the HOLY SPIRIT.

A.) "GOD ... is.... A.... Spirit"..

Believe it.

 

[Wrangler]

Good question, Truther


A.) Divine equivalency

Language usage. God sent Jesus and told him what to say. This is hierarchy, not equivalence, divine or otherwise.

 

[Wrangler]

God isn't Irish.

That's all you got to say about the point of language usage?

Correct, God is eternal, which Jesus is not. And God's eternal name is not Jesus but YHWH.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus never claimed to be the Lamb of God, as John the Baptist make that pronouncement, and its a FACT.

Agreed. Being OF God, it proves he is not God.

 

[Behold]

Language usage. God sent Jesus and told him what to say. This is hierarchy, not equivalence, divine or otherwise.

Jesus is "God manifested in the Flesh", as a baby, before He ever said "mama".

 

[Wrangler]

You understand that your BLOOD TYPE comes from your male parent.?????

See that?

That's GOD become a man... conceived by the HOLY SPIRIT.

A.) "GOD ... is.... A.... Spirit"..

Believe it.

Really? The almighty, the miracle maker could make a man from scratch without becoming a man but had to in order to make a man in a woman's womb?!

In triniy land, God the Father did not conceive his son but another person. Keep proving the trinity wrong by juxtaposition. Thanks!

 

[Behold]

That's all you got to say about the point of language usage?

Correct, God is eternal, which Jesus is not. And God's eternal name is not Jesus but YHWH.

Jesus is in Heaven right now, seated at the right hand of the Father.,

The Apostles and others saw Him ascend into the clouds from the earth.

Same Jesus who rose from the Dead, "bodily".

Now, if you are JW, then you have been trained to not understand that Jesus rose from the dead , bodily.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus is "God manifested in the Flesh", as a baby, before He ever said "mama".

No verse says what you claim or imply. My father's driver's license is "him manifested in the image." This does not make the driver's licence manifestion my father.

 

[Behold]

Agreed. Being OF God, it proves he is not God.

God wrapped Himself in Human Flesh and died for your sin on the Cross.

God became ONE of us, to die for ALL of us.

 

[synergy]

3 units of the Godhead, now?

Godhead? Explain what you mean by Godhead.

Are your wife and kids not persons but units?

Yes they are persons, not apples.

Maybe, Frank Zappa called his kid Moon Unit.
Actually, 1/3+1/3+1/3=1.

1/3 what?

 

[Behold]

Really? The almighty, the miracle maker could make a man from scratch without becoming a man but had to in order to make a man in a woman's womb?!

Think of it like this..

God made Adam out of Dirt.
God made Eve out of Adam's Rib
God made Jesus from the Seed of Himself, "The Holy Spirit" = "God is A Spirit" and "Jesus is THAT Spirit".
God made you, out of your mother and father, unless you were hatched, and i vote, you have a Mama and daddy.

He's God, remember, ???? and nothing is impossible (all things are possible) with God.

God could have made Man out of chocolate if that was His desire.

He made Jesus from the Seed of the Supernatural.

"After its KIND".... "2nd Adam"....= Jesus as God in the Flesh. "the BREAD come down from Heaven"... Jesus.. "the BREAD OF LIFE"

 

[dwight92070]

Back door rationalization.

The Strawman you are relying on is that worship = God. Yet, Daniel and David were worshipped.

Scripture says that YHWH is the name of the only God. Ex 3:15. Is 45:5. This is not Jesus’ name. Ergo, Jesus is not God.

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Isaiah 45:5​

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Names of God Bible​

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5 I am Yahweh, and there is no other.
There is no other Elohim besides me

Sounds like the Jehovah's Witness argument. I think you meant to say Exodus 3:14, not 3:15

3:14 says: "God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'(YHWH or Jehovah); and He said, 'Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM (YHWH or Jehovah)' has sent me to you."

But actually I'm glad you said 3:15, because this verse says that God also has another name:

"God, furthermore, said to Moses (in other words, this is additional information), 'Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations'."

So to be more accurate and precise, His name is "The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob".

But then it is also true that God has many names: Our Creator, the Everlasting Father, Almighty God, The Lord our Provider, our Banner, our Peace, our Healer, our Shepherd, our Righteousness, Abba Father, Adonai, the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End, the Ancient of Days, Elohim, the God who Sees, God Most High, Savior, Lord, Redeemer, Holy One of Israel, the King of Israel, the Lord of Hosts, our Maker, The Creator of the Heavens and the Earth, God of Israel, a Righteous God and a Savior, The Fountain of Living Water, and of course, Jesus!

Therefore YHWH is NOT His only name.

Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.

In other words Jesus is saying: whatever you believe about God, you can believe about Me, however you treat God, you can treat Me. if you put your faith in God, you can put your faith in Me.

 

[Behold]

No verse says what you claim or imply.

Thomas said.. upon seeing Jesus resurrected...>"My Lord and MY GOD"... and here is the thing, @Wrangler ......Jesus didn't correct Him.
As why would GOD in the FLESH< correct the Truth?

Also, "God manifested in the Flesh", is "the Word made flesh" and dwelt among us".. who is JESUS, pre-incarnate as "the WORD was God" In John 1.

 

[dwight92070]

What's wrong is trinitarianism. You invent a rationalization for the exclusive purpose of qualifying your idolatry.

If worship is the standard of God qualification, you have to admit it dooms the trinity both ways from Sunday. The Holy Spirit was not worhipped, proving he is NOT God. Daniel and David were worshipped, proving God's naure is not 3.

Let's see now, we worship Jesus because we believe He IS God.

If you worship Jesus, then your are worshiping a man who you believe IS NOT God.

So which one of us is committing idolatry? Pretty obvious.

Or, if you're consistent, you don't worship Jesus, because He is not God. I don't know whether you believe that you should worship Jesus or not.

If the Holy Spirit is God, and He is (Acts 5:1-4), then yes, He is equally worthy of our worship and praise. In the reference in Acts, Peter equates lying to the Holy Spirit with lying to God.

If Daniel and David were worshiped - and I'll take your word for it, I don't know the verses off hand - then all that proves is there were some ignorant "worshipers" who ought to have known better. And if the Bible does record this, that doesn't mean that God approves of what they were doing. It says NOTHING about the Trinity or God's nature.

 

[dwight92070]

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

It is correct that there are no Bible verses that use the word "trinity". Nor is there any place where Jesus says directly "I am God." But the Bible is filled with evidence and substance that BOTH are true.

This is why I believe God left out those words - (here we go again with something that is not there), because He wants us to search the scripture, find the evidence and the substance and believe in BOTH by faith. It was not a mistake on His part. Without faith we can't please God. But our faith is not blind. Our faith is based on solid scriptural evidence and substance.

 

[APAK]

Yes, "quite".

"The Word became flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld HIS Glory"" = "the only Begotten"

Who is the "Word"?

"The Word WAS God".

"God was manifested in the FLESH".

This is THE pre-incarnate Word, who was born of a Virgin.

Recognize that One?
I think you can, if you try., APAK.

He is the same who created the WORLD, in John 1:10, who was the Word of Creation in Genesis.

This is why He said...."if you've seen ME.... you've SEEN the Father"

This is why Jesus said..."You believe in God... believe also in ME"

This is why Jesus said..."I and my Father are ONE"

Behold, now read scripture and the words with knowledge of their meaning along with context without just listing disjoined statements. I believe you could even write a commentary on the subject as you have shown previously on the subject of salvation....that does ring loud and clear. You do want to be thorough and clear?

Take for example the Greek term 'logos' for the English term 'word,' and it does not have to be translated as 'word.' The majority of translators chose this term and most even capitalized it. It can just say 'word.' Speaking of logos - logic, reasoning expression of thought etc. the Greek word logos is not and never is a real person or personality regardless whether the Greek as the Spanish and the French place gender types on their nouns and pronouns. The 'logos' happens to be a masculine gender in Greek and when translated into English as every word of this type they became a neuter 'it,' The French call the English word table le Tableaux/table and it is also considered a masculine gender. We don't call a table a 'he' now do we, only an 'it.' So what happed here in John? Why in all of scripture did the Greek transliterated term 'logos' in this one place in John, became a person? I believe you really have to answer that question, truthfully, clearly and thoroughly with 110% accuracy.

So there is no possibility of 'Who' is the word. It is WHAT is the word. And I can answer that for you, truthfully although will not agree with this truth and most probably reply by pivoting towards a substitute or associated verse as your solid support, although it will be built on sand I'm afraid. And I wager you will again implicate the circular illogical reasoning of John 1:14. This is not truth and it does not make sense contextually or grammatically and in the spirit of common understanding. What you would then again accomplish in doing, as many before you, is to corrupt redefine the meaning of not only the term 'logos' but also the Son and from where the word originates, from the Father.

And the never ending beat goes on I'm afraid........as usual

 

[Wrangler]

God wrapped Himself in Human Flesh and died for your sin on the Cross.

An anti-scriptural post. God cannot die.

 

[Wrangler]

Think of it like this..

What’s wrong with the thinking in the OP; that the trinity is wrong and juxtaposition proves it?