God the Son has His God, God the Father, from all eternity.
Why The Trinity is Wrong: Juxtaposition
- Thread starter Wrangler
- Start date
Truther
Well-known member
Nope. That equals 2 persons. God the Father and God the Son.
Both have the same one God nature so there is one God but there are 2 persons.
APAK
Active member
Pretty creative Behold.....the Pre-incarnate Word ....really? Based on scripture? ..NOT!
Wrangler
Well-known member
I’ve answered this question 3 times AND returned questions of my own, which you ignored. If you don’t like my answers, that’s just too bad.
Feel free to re-read my answers and if you don’t understand what I write, ask and you shall receive.
Wrangler
Well-known member
No. I deny you Eisegesis claim for this. Big difference.
There is only one God, the Father.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Did they receive equal worship? No. Jesus did not teach us to pray as you pretend but only to God, who alone is the Father.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Back door rationalization.
The Strawman you are relying on is that worship = God. Yet, Daniel and David were worshipped.
Scripture says that YHWH is the name of the only God. Ex 3:15. Is 45:5. This is not Jesus’ name. Ergo, Jesus is not God.
Isaiah 45:5
Names of God Bible
5 I am Yahweh, and there is no other.There is no other Elohim besides me
dwight92070
Well-known member
If Daniel and David were worshiped, then that was wrong, whether the Bible records it or not. I'm sure you know that Wrangler.
Really? Then Isaiah was wrong when he called the Son the Mighty God, Everlasting Father? You have to edit or change both the Hebrews passage and the Isaiah passage to make them say what you want? I'm not reading anything into those scriptures. I'm just accepting the simple truth that is there. Tell me what I'm reading into the Hebrews verses.
Wrangler, one of your favorite "defenses" is to say we're engaging in "back door rationalization". You said that we can't build a doctrine on something that doesn't happen, like Jesus NOT worshiping the Father. By the way, I don't see your particular post saying this now, but I believe you asked something to the effect of = Why must the Lamb, Jesus, fall down and worship the Father? Well, if you were standing in front of the One who sits on the throne, the Father, would you bow down and worship? You bet you would. And if Jesus is not God, like you believe, then He would too. The Bible commands ALL CREATED THINGS to worship and bow down before God, which is why BOTH Jesus AND the Father are worshiped in Revelation 5.
But lets test your "back door" theory: You say that a doctrine can't be built on something that doesn't happen.
If a man doesn't work, Paul said, neither let him eat. Work is not happening here and Paul makes it a doctrine.
If a man doesn't keep his marriage vow, in most cases, he is committing adultery. Keeping his vows is not happening here. This doctrine is also a command.
If a man doesn't go regularly to meet with other Christians, he is violating the command in Hebrews to " ... not forsaking our own assembling
together. Assembling with other believers is not happening here.
If anyone does not provide for his ... household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. Providing for his family is not happening here. Paul basically is giving us the doctrine of, or command to, consider the man worse than an unbeliever.
You gave Me no water for My feet ... You gave Me no kiss ... You did not anoint My head with oil ... he who is forgiven little loves little. Hospitality is not happening here, which is a Christian doctrine and command.
Why do you call Me Lord, Lord, and do not do what I say? Obedience is not happening here and this creates the doctrine or command: If you call Me Lord, do what I say.
Jesus does not bow down and worship the Father will ALL CREATED THINGS. In fact He stands right by the Father to receive the SAME WORSHIP.
Therefore we know two doctrines are true: 1. He is God, and therefore does not worship the Father. and 2. He is not a created being and therefore is the Creator.
I think it's time to kick "back-door rationalization" out the back door. If that doesn't happen, then you will continue to misinterpret the Bible.
Truther
Well-known member
2=1?
You forget the rules of Algebra so easily?
Algebra instructs you that units need to be taken into consideration.
For example, does 1 apple + 1 orange = 2 apples? No, units need to be considered.
Trinitarianism says the following:
1 Person + 1 Person + 1 Person = 3 Persons.
1 Divine Nature = 1 Divine Nature (i.e.: there is only 1 Divine Nature).
Notice how I add items of the same units.
That's today's lesson on Algebra.
Behold
Well-known member
Yes, "quite".
"The Word became flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld HIS Glory"" = "the only Begotten"
Who is the "Word"?
"The Word WAS God".
"God was manifested in the FLESH".
This is THE pre-incarnate Word, who was born of a Virgin.
Recognize that One?
I think you can, if you try., APAK.
He is the same who created the WORLD, in John 1:10, who was the Word of Creation in Genesis.
This is why He said...."if you've seen ME.... you've SEEN the Father"
This is why Jesus said..."You believe in God... believe also in ME"
This is why Jesus said..."I and my Father are ONE"
Truther
Well-known member
3 units of the Godhead, now?
Are your wife and kids not persons but units?
Maybe, Frank Zappa called his kid Moon Unit.
Actually, 1/3+1/3+1/3=1.
LOL
Behold
Well-known member
"""Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, `The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, `What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?" God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM.""
Jesus said... "Before Abraham was born, ... I AM">..
Truther
Well-known member
..... the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Was Jesus the "I am" or was the "I am" speaking through Jesus?
Wrangler
Well-known member
What's wrong is trinitarianism. You invent a rationalization for the exclusive purpose of qualifying your idolatry.
If worship is the standard of God qualification, you have to admit it dooms the trinity both ways from Sunday. The Holy Spirit was not worhipped, proving he is NOT God. Daniel and David were worshipped, proving God's naure is not 3.
Wrangler
Well-known member
No. I say that to point out you cannot simply point to a trinitarian verse. What you must do instead is invent a rationalization to qualify your man made doctrine, THEN engage in artificial synthesis, taking a piece from here and a piece from there and cobble together what looks like to the unsuspecting ignorant of Scripture "support" in the Bible.
Truth is, such an approach can "support" any doctrine.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Jesus taught us to pray only to God the Father, who he said is the only true God. Jesus did not teach the trinity. Profound.
You are disregarding your Lord in favor of your manmade doctrine.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Because Jesus has a God and prays to (worships) his God, we know that Jesus is not God.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Another example of trinitarian math is to say they are the same essence but only Jesus is said to have 2 natures.
I can't believe rational people belief this inherently contradictory doctrine AND make it seem as though it is the central message of the Bible when it is not even in the Bible.
