Why The Trinity is Wrong: Juxtaposition

[APAK]

Jesus is God per Rev 3 and has a God at the same time.

God inside the man Christ Jesus =the man being God by default.

God never removed his son's personality or human spirit, but just entered into it.

In denial of scripture I see, or should I say blind to it. And then using empty vain philosophical thought that does not wash with scripture at all....you have do better than that to convince a mature believer...

 

[Behold]

I never saw it that way. God breathed into Adam's nostrils "the breath of life". Genesis 2:7 The Holy Spirit does not enter a body through his nostrils.

It did in Genesis 2

 

[Behold]

I was banned for a week on the Bible Forum, for strongly defending the Deity of Christ against 2, sometimes 3 anti-Trinitarians.

One of the sad realities about "christian" forums, is that most of them, 99%, are created to teach some theology, Like Calvinism, or to argue against some Bible Doctrine.
So, if you are none of those, you can expect to be banned, as the Mods and the Owner, need you to abide by whatever cult teaching or doctrine that is their obsession, that caused them to create the Forum to begin with....

 

[dwight92070]

It did in Genesis 2

I disagree. That would imply that the Holy Spirit is something material, like "the breath of life" in Genesis 2:7 obviously was. That would also imply that even the unbelievers breath in them IS the Holy Spirit, which cannot be, or all of mankind would possess the Holy Spirit.

 

[Truther]

I know that all to well and was on vacations all the time for opposing calvinism. Now I can debate it until my hearts content. without a vacation. rofl. I would even get banned for using a popcorn emoji, saying I'll get the popcorn ready.

It was okay years ago, until all the sudden someone was hovering over those he or she did not like.

I got suspended several times for opposing modern versions as a KJVO.

Many other forums are just as bad.

You have a good forum here. I think it will grow as long as it does not censor folks for opposing opinions.

 

[Truther]

In denial of scripture I see, or should I say blind to it. And then using empty vain philosophical thought that does not wash with scripture at all....you have do better than that to convince a mature believer...

Okay. Jesus in heaven for decades, stating 4 times in a single verse that he still has a God....


12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


Question: does Jesus have a God right now?

 

[civic]

I never saw it that way. God breathed into Adam's nostrils "the breath of life". Genesis 2:7 The Holy Spirit does not enter a body through his nostrils. Genesis 2:7 Adam had his own spirit that God breathed into him, not the Holy Spirit. It DOES appear that Jesus imparted the Holy Spirit to His apostles, who already had their own spirit, in John.
Notice that Jesus did not FORCE the Holy Spirit on them, but commanded them to receive it. They had to be WILLING to receive it and obedient, which it appears that they were.

I was banned for a week on the Bible Forum, for strongly defending the Deity of Christ against 2, sometimes 3 anti-Trinitarians. In fact that thread is still going today with 111,633 posts as of today. I started it over a year ago with the title "Jesus is God". One of the "Jesus is not God" guys in particular would constantly reject the plain and simple and oftentimes obvious meaning of any verse or passage that I brought up showing that Jesus is God. He would get out his microscope and pretend he was analyzing a particular word. Usually his analysis would be a mile long and he enjoyed using words that I had to look up in the dictionary, or quoting so-called Bible scholars, who I always found out after a little investigation were biased against the Trinity to begin with. I told him repeatedly that he had a knack for making the simple, complex and confusing. When he was done, his conclusion was often a self-righteous "it's obvious that most Bible scholars disagree with you and any reasonable, thinking Christian can see that you are wrong.", or something to that effect.

But whenever the back and forth got a little heated, the "Administrator" would jump in and immediately chastise me for not acting like a Christian, and accusing me of turning everything into an unChristian-like verbal attack. He said that I should be learn from my "opponent's" example of how to behave like a Christian. When I responded to him, saying that it was not true that my desire was to turn everything into a heated, verbal attack, he fired back, basically saying, "Are you calling me a liar?" He immediately threatened to block me from getting on the forum for a week, to see if maybe that would teach me a lesson, although he said he doubted that it would. Shortly after that, I was blocked for 7 days.

I felt like a little kid whose Dad had sent to his room, until he learned to behave properly. He had NO respect for me whatsoever. I couldn't even defend myself, saying that his accusations against me were just as offensive as what he accused me of. In other words, he was a hypocrite, doing the very thing that he accused me of. But that must have infuriated him, since he was incapable of doing any wrong, being the mature "Christian" that he was.

After a week, I was able to return, but it was walking on eggshells. Several months later, our posts once again were a little too strong for his liking, so out of nowhere, he interjects, basically starting where he left off, accusing me, attacking me, shaming me for pretending to be a Christian. I saw no escape from this guys obvious hateful bias against me. He was getting ready to "teach me another lesson" by blocking me again. I decided to go over his head and email the person who was the head over all that ministry, who I happen to know personally. I explained everything to him as honestly as I could. He said he would talk with the Administrator, and tell him NOT to block me, or to EVER block me again. WOW! Thank you Lord!
Give someone a little power - even a "mature" Christian, and it sometimes goes straight to their head.

Thank you guys, on this forum, for not being proud, arrogant, know-it-all administrators, and recognizing that all deserve respect, and maybe sometimes the decency of a gentle rebuke, and also knowing that you too are flesh and blood.

I see that happens quite a bit where they get a position and start lording it over others and talk down to people. I'm convicted to be a servant leader and to put the needs of others over my own. I try to be an example when I post and treat everyone the same. There are rule here ( not that many of them compared to other forums) and sometimes I will have to quote them or remind people about them. But we don't humiliate people in public, demean them, talk down to them etc.......

I know some might have a problem with this because I treat non trinitarians ( I'm a dogmatic trin personally ) the same as trins on the forum. I expect trins to treat non trins with the gosled rule on the forum and the same for the non trins with the trins.

Attack the argument and not the person. The problem is people can and do get very emotional about our/their beliefs. We hold them dear to us and are passionate about them. debating can be fun, a time to learn and defend our beliefs as long as we leave the name calling out of the debate.

We really do not want to ban anyone and we hope the "golden rule" catches on here and it will be a very enjoyable place for everyone. And I enjoy posting and interacting with everyone so we have an Administrator and Predestined who handle the forum monitoring. Every once in a while I will say something but its the exception to the rule. I let them handle all that stuff since its not my thing so to speak.

 

[civic]

It was okay years ago, until all the sudden someone was hovering over those he or she did not like.

I got suspended several times for opposing modern versions as a KJVO.

Many other forums are just as bad.

You have a good forum here. I think it will grow as long as it does not censor folks for opposing opinions.

see my previous post

 

[Behold]

I disagree. That would imply that the Holy Spirit is something material, like "the breath of life" in Genesis 2:7 obviously was. That would also imply that even the unbelievers breath in them IS the Holy Spirit, which cannot be, or all of mankind would possess the Holy Spirit.

"
The Spirit in you is eternal.
You are a Spirit being, who lives in a currently dying body.
Your body is going to die, and your spirit will be released into eternity.

Its not hot air.

So, Adam was formed out of "DIrt" and became a LIVING SOUL/Spirit, because God's Spirit that is LIFE< was put in Him.

This same Holy Spirit, is .."Christ IS THAT Spirit".

The born again are the "Temple of the HOLY Spirit".

The Holy Spirit is..."Christ in you, the hope of Glory..

And, "he that hath not the Spirit of God, is none of God's"


Its all the same.

 

[civic]

"
The Spirit in you is eternal.
You are a Spirit being, who lives in a currently dying body.
Your body is going to die, and your spirit will be released into eternity.

Its not hot air.

So, Adam was formed out of "DIrt" and became a LIVING SOUL/Spirit, because God's Spirit that is LIFE< was put in Him.

This same Holy Spirit, is .."Christ IS THAT Spirit".

The born again are the "Temple of the HOLY Spirit".

The Holy Spirit is..."Christ in you, the hope of Glory..

And, "he that hath not the Spirit of God, is none of God's"


Its all the same.

You do affirm all believers will have an incorruptible, immortal, imperishable body made for heavens realm for all eternity like our Lords body ? Man will remain body,soul and spirit for all eternity ?

 

[Behold]

You do affirm all believers will have an incorruptible, immortal, imperishable body made for heavens realm for all eternity like our Lords body ? Man will remain body,soul and spirit for all eternity ?

Yes.

The born again....US....we are waiting for our new body.

Its created FOR our born again spirit.

 

[civic]

Yes.

The born again....US....we are waiting for our new body.

Its created FOR our born again spirit.

Amen !!!

 

[dwight92070]

"
The Spirit in you is eternal.
You are a Spirit being, who lives in a currently dying body.
Your body is going to die, and your spirit will be released into eternity.

Its not hot air.

So, Adam was formed out of "DIrt" and became a LIVING SOUL/Spirit, because God's Spirit that is LIFE< was put in Him.

This same Holy Spirit, is .."Christ IS THAT Spirit".

The born again are the "Temple of the HOLY Spirit".

The Holy Spirit is..."Christ in you, the hope of Glory..

And, "he that hath not the Spirit of God, is none of God's"


Its all the same.

Some of your words still are not sounding right. I don't think of myself or others as Spirit beings, especially NOT with a capital "S". We are human beings and NOT ALL human beings have the Holy Spirit in them, as you seem to be saying. We each have our own spirit that God put into us. That spirit is NOT the Holy Spirit. When we are saved, God sends the Holy Spirit into us to dwell in us. Now we have our spirit and the Holy Spirit in us. I am not convinced that our spirit is eternal from birth. When Adam and Eve sinned, as God told them, they died. Not only did their bodies start to age and decay, but it appears to me that something similar may have happened in their spirits as well. There are definitely some unknowns there, at least to me. But something definitely changed, because they knew they were naked, they felt guilt, and they knew they had to clothe themselves.

When we die as believers, our spirit is NOT released into eternity. That's NOT what Paul said. He said, "To be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord." So we're not flying around in eternity. We are WITH THE LORD JESUS.

There's no Biblical evidence that God breathed His Spirit or the Holy Spirit into Adam's nostrils. That actually seems quite ridiculous, that the Holy Spirit could only enter Adam through his nostrils. It's always a good rule of thumb to only say what the Bible says. The Bible says that God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life - NOT the Holy Spirit. So when we receive the Holy Spirit today, does He enter us through our nostrils? I don't think so.

 

[dwight92070]

By the way, Moses and Elijah appeared on the mount of transfiguraton, and the disciples SAW them, even though they did NOT have, and STILL do NOT have their resurrected bodies, which they won't get until Christ's second coming. But obviously, they had some kind of body, for the disciples to be able to see them. Yes, Jesus did call their appearance a vision, so it's possible that God made them appear as physical beings, even though they may not have been.
I believe he did the same for Saul to ACTUALLY SEE Samuel, even though he was dead.
Also in the account of Lazarus and the rich man, apparently Lazarus, the rich man, and even Abraham appeared in a physical body, even though they all were dead. Maybe when we die, we will still have a body of some sort, just not our resurrected body - we don't know for sure, do we?
This could also be true in Revelation, where John said he saw "the souls" of those who had been slain. Revelation 6:9 and Rev. 20:4.
We will know all of that when we join them in heaven.

 

[Truther]

I see that happens quite a bit where they get a position and start lording it over others and talk down to people. I'm convicted to be a servant leader and to put the needs of others over my own. I try to be an example when I post and treat everyone the same. There are rule here ( not that many of them compared to other forums) and sometimes I will have to quote them or remind people about them. But we don't humiliate people in public, demean them, talk down to them etc.......

I know some might have a problem with this because I treat non trinitarians ( I'm a dogmatic trin personally ) the same as trins on the forum. I expect trins to treat non trins with the gosled rule on the forum and the same for the non trins with the trins.

Attack the argument and not the person. The problem is people can and do get very emotional about our/their beliefs. We hold them dear to us and are passionate about them. debating can be fun, a time to learn and defend our beliefs as long as we leave the name calling out of the debate.

We really do not want to ban anyone and we hope the "golden rule" catches on here and it will be a very enjoyable place for everyone. And I enjoy posting and interacting with everyone so we have an Administrator and Predestined who handle the forum monitoring. Every once in a while I will say something but its the exception to the rule. I let them handle all that stuff since its not my thing so to speak.

I don't report folks.

I tell them to lay off the caffeine though.

 

[Truther]

By the way, Moses and Elijah appeared on the mount of transfiguraton, and the disciples SAW them, even though they did NOT have, and STILL do NOT have their resurrected bodies, which they won't get until Christ's second coming. But obviously, they had some kind of body, for the disciples to be able to see them. Yes, Jesus did call their appearance a vision, so it's possible that God made them appear as physical beings, even though they may not have been.
I believe he did the same for Saul to ACTUALLY SEE Samuel, even though he was dead.
Also in the account of Lazarus and the rich man, apparently Lazarus, the rich man, and even Abraham appeared in a physical body, even though they all were dead. Maybe when we die, we will still have a body of some sort, just not our resurrected body - we don't know for sure, do we?
This could also be true in Revelation, where John said he saw "the souls" of those who had been slain. Revelation 6:9 and Rev. 20:4.
We will know all of that when we join them in heaven.

Scripturally, when we get rid of our terrestrial body we get a new and improved one, able to eat and drink etc.

 

[Behold]

Some of your words still are not sounding right. I don't think of myself or others as Spirit beings,

You are a spirit being who lives inside a earth suit.

Your body is going to DIE, but your spirit is not going to die., its going to continue beyond your body's death.

Its a container. Your spirit is alive..... and is in it..

The born again, get a NEW BODY, because the currently dying one, is not created for the born again SPRIIT< so, the born again get a new body..

 

[Wrangler]

Okay. Jesus in heaven for decades, stating 4 times in a single verse that he still has a God....


12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


Question: does Jesus have a God right now?

It does not surprise me that no one answered. I invoked this verse numerou times .... Cricket ... Cricket ... Cricket ...

Our trinitarian friends only consider evidence and arguments in support of theit anti-Biblical doctrine.

 

[dwight92070]

You are a spirit being who lives inside a earth suit.

Your body is going to DIE, but your spirit is not going to die., its going to continue beyond your body's death.

Its a container. Your spirit is alive..... and is in it..

The born again, get a NEW BODY, because the currently dying one, is not created for the born again SPRIIT< so, the born again get a new body..

Sorry, but I don't care for your unBiblical terms. I am, and you are, human beings. I am, and you are, spirit, soul, and body. Our bodies, as believers are the temple of the Holy Spirit. David said of our spirit, soul, and body: "I will give thanks to you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; wonderful are Your works, and my soul knows it very well." David rejoiced and was thankful for how God made us. We should be too. I don't think we should emphasize our spirit, as if it is more important or more glorious than our soul or our body. We are all three, and all three are creations of God and are GOOD.

Unlike David, you seem to imply that our bodies are something bad. When our bodies die, you said, our spirit will be released into eternity - which sounds like a prisoner being released from jail. We are not prisoners in a rotting corpse. Our material body, even though slowly decaying, is not bad - in fact it is good. What IS bad is our tendency toward fleshly SINS.

I think that it's also important to realize that our current body is the SAME BODY that God will change into an immortal body at the rapture, which is also the second coming. If you are male, your immortal body will be male - if you are female, your immortal body will be female. We know this because Jesus, after He was raised from the dead, was still male. It was His earthly body changed into an immortal body. Not only that, but our appearance will be the same - most likely how we appeared in the prime of our youth - again, because it's the same body we have now - only changed to be immortal.

"Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things passed away; behold new things have come." What became new? Our body? No. Our spirit and our soul? Yes. When the Holy Spirit enters us at the new birth, our soul and our spirit are changed. However, in some way that must have benefited our bodies too. Paul said, "For we are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh."
"But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you." (Did you catch the Trinity in that verse? It's kind of hard to miss.)

 

[dwight92070]

It does not surprise me that no one answered. I invoked this verse numerou times .... Cricket ... Cricket ... Cricket ...

Our trinitarian friends only consider evidence and arguments in support of theit anti-Biblical doctrine.

Okay, here's my response: Maybe now you will respond to my direct question given to you twice now. At the end of this response, I will ask it a 3rd time.

You forgot Matthew 27:46 - "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me? and John 20:17- " ... I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God."

You imply that "Jesus being in heaven for decades" would make any difference in Him calling the Father His God? He called Him His God even while He was on earth.

Did you forget that the Father also called His Son "God"? "But OF THE SON, He says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, ..." and "Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You ..."

So we have Jesus calling His father, "My God",
Then we have the Father calling Jesus "God".

So what's your point?

By the way, Wrangler, speaking of "crickets" and only considering evidence and arguments in support of one's own side:

Wrangler, this is the 3rd time I've asked you:

Why did the Lamb, Jesus, in Revelation 4 and 5 NOT bow down or even worship the One who sits on the throne, the Father?

And why did the One who sits on the throne, the Father, AND THE LAMB, JESUS, BOTH SHARE IN RECEIVING EQUAL WORSHIP?

In fact, there are two times in chapter 4 where ONLY the Father is worshiped - verses 8 and 11.

Then there are two times in chapter 5 where ONLY the Son is worshiped - verses 9 -10, and 12

Then BOTH are worshiped equally in chapter 5:13-14.