Why The Trinity is Wrong: Juxtaposition

Do you think the Trinity is correct or incorrect


  • Total voters
    3
You're projecting. Not to make this personal, this is the bedrock of trinitarianism. The mortal enemies of the concept of the trinity are these 4 pillars, which have to be violated at every turn:
1. Definition
2. Logic
3. Language Usage
4. Explicit Scripture

Not only do trinitarians deliberately misinterpret literal and figurative speech (such as word of God), they subordinate explicit text (such as there is one God, the Father, Jesus has a God, the Father is the only true God) to their eisegesis, reading their doctrine into text.

Funny that yesterday I was accused of not reading a passage in context when trinitarians disregard the entire context of the Bible which is monotheist, written by Jews who reject the trinity to this day.

Moreover, they rely on mystical dualism and artificial synthesis. This explains why they do not accept the simple fact that the trinity - neither the word nor concept - is in Scripture. They assert it is there if you take one verse out of monotheist context after another. By this tactic, one can synthesize any doctrine one pleases. This explains why folks like @Johann have to have many long posts with many verses to make their point.

Mystical dualism rejects the bedrock of of logic, the law of non-contradiction, supposing one can be a son and not-created, a son of X and X at the same time.

Invoking a double standard, trinitarians give no weight to inferences that undermine the trinity dogma (such as Jesus died proves he is not God and the Holy Spirit is not a person for if he was, he'd have a name or there is no equality for if Jesus was given all authority, it means the Holy Spirit has no authority). Finally, they admit no rejection criteria; what set of words would reasonably justify rejecting the trinity.

One character here, too smart by half, invoked an unreasonable, Circular Reasoning rejection criteria.

Good talk. :coffee:
Despite all this, trinitarians regard their specious IDOL as the central message of Scripture.
 
Despite all this, trinitarians regard their specious IDOL as the central message of Scripture.
All this effort without even one Bible verse quote from you. Our authoritative basis is the Bible. Any allegation that does not adhere to that basis is just that: an allegation. You call yourself a "Biblical Unitarian". Prove that you're Biblical first and that will take care of the Unitarian portion of your title.
 
If you insist.
This works both ways. The golden rule applies to everyone here including the administrator, moderator, civic and all the members regardless of their preference of faith or religious affiliation. This is in our short list of rules and guidelines for our forum.

And to be honest we want everyone to respect each other so we do not have to get any complaints. We might be dreamers but we can dream big and hope for the best.
 
This works both ways.
I don't mind if people call me names. Either the term is accurate (like Biblical Unitarian, man, American, Libertarian) or it is not.

If the term truthfully applies, there is no defense. If the term does not truly apply, no defense is needed. The ongoing use of the inaccurate term says more about the speaker than the listener (or writer than reader, if you prefer).

In my lifetime, our society has become feminized. As such, we've become overly sensitive to name calling. Growing up, I was taught 'sticks and stones.' Such wisdom is rejected today.

A non-theological parallel is the abortion debate. I used to tell supporters it is unconstitutional. They fumed. But it remained true. Their response was the SC Court said there is a Constitutional right. My reply: extreme eisegesis. I'd ask what Article-Section-Clause acknowledges abortion as a right? No answer but more fuming, name calling, escalation of emotions.

I realize I am far more attentive to explicit Scripture than others. In another forum I started a thread about how I see doctrine in Christiandom generally becoming an IDOL. I touched on it here in our forum today. I often say there is no doctrinal purity test to be saved. I know this unnerves those proud of their doctrinal understanding. My Pastor said in Sunday's sermon that people are not moved to Christ because of an eloquent, intellectual argument; they are moved by experience with the divine. Thoughts?
 
If anything can be said to be practically the case throughout the Bible, the NT anyway, is how Biblical authors juxtapose "God" from "Jesus." The ubiquitous juxtaposing of "God" from "Jesus" is probably the best evidence that the trinity is wrong. Let's start with definition.

juxtapose

verb

jux·ta·pose ˈjək-stə-ˌpōz

juxtaposed; juxtaposing
Synonyms of juxtapose
transitive verb
: to place (different things) side by side (as to compare them or contrast them


Let's take the famous John 3:16. For God so loved the world, that he (singular) gave his (singular) only begotten Son. Missing is "the Father" that trinitarians like to rely on to prop uo their false IDOL.

  1. Who loved the world?
  2. Who gave?
God, "in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature."

Whenever the word "God" is in Scripture, one ought to think for emphasis, "God in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature." In another thread, a poster avoided the verse that stated who gave Jesus his authority. HINT: It was not "the Father" but God, "in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature."

Consider Acts 2:36 God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
  1. Who made Jesus Lord?
  2. Who made Jesus Christ?

God, "in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature."


Consider 1 Cor 11:3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife[a] is her husband,[b] and the head of Christ is God. Notice how "the Father" is not the head of Christ?

  1. Who is the head of Christ?
God, "in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature."


Consider Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him.
  1. Who gave Jesus the revelation?
God, "in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature."


Again, such juxtaposition is ubiquitous. It is actually the exception that "the Father" is juxtaposed with Jesus. Only an obtuse trinitarian could dismiss how "the Father" is uniquely defined as synonymous with God, "in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature." Normally, the juxtaposition is between Jesus and
God, "in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature" and there are so many more examples. A condition of salvation. Romans 10:9 if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

  1. Who raised Jesus from the dead, which you must believe to be saved?
God, "in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature."

No such juxtaposing verses would exist IF Jesus were God.
Are you Unitarian?
 
I am a Biblical Unitarian, no longer associated with the church by that name.
OK, I wasn’t critiquing you. I just wanted to know where you were at. A biblical Unitarian is the extreme push back of Incarnationists. There is a leap over the crevasse a bit too far. The Bible truth is right in the middle. Jesus was made God by default after he was resurrected by his God from the dead. This is via the Colossians 2:9 effect on his body.

Thomas was the first to acknowledge Jesus as God after he saw him resurrected. Unitarians doubt Thomas.
 
Jesus was made God by default after he was resurrected by his God from the dead.
Untrue. God gave the resurrected Jesus the Revelation. See Rev 1:1.

See Rev 3:12. See Christianity’s End Game: 1 Cor 15:23-28, where God - in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature - is explicitly exempted from who is under Jesus’ authority.
 
Untrue. God gave the resurrected Jesus the Revelation. See Rev 1:1.

See Rev 3:12. See Christianity’s End Game: 1 Cor 15:23-28, where God - in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature - is explicitly exempted from who is under Jesus’ authority.
This is plain and simple. You doubt, Thomas.
 
Untrue. God gave the resurrected Jesus the Revelation. See Rev 1:1.

See Rev 3:12. See Christianity’s End Game: 1 Cor 15:23-28, where God - in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature - is explicitly exempted from who is under Jesus’ authority.
Indeed Wrangler, Yahshua is in the temple and those of his saints ALL will be in the temple of HIS God (Father of the heavens or lights who created them) and also write 'on' the saints the name of HIS God and the name of the city of HIS (My) God. 3x Yahshua is acknowledging his God who is also my God.
 
Are you Unitarian?
This is supposed to be a response to Wrangler - see #311

Wherever the word "Jesus" is in the New Testament, we ought think for emphasis, "Jesus, Who made Himself equal with God". John 5:18
Who raised Jesus from the dead? Jesus said that He raised Himself from the dead; "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up." John 2:19
Yes, we also have verses that say God raised Him from the dead, so which is it? Both because Jesus is God.
 
This works both ways. The golden rule applies to everyone here including the administrator, moderator, civic and all the members regardless of their preference of faith or religious affiliation. This is in our short list of rules and guidelines for our forum.

And to be honest we want everyone to respect each other so we do not have to get any complaints. We might be dreamers but we can dream big and hope for the best.

If I'm committing idolatry than I WANT someone to call me out.

I consider a sign of them RESPECTING me to correct where I am in disobedience.

The Bible COMMANDS idolatry to be called out.

I may not agree with their assessment, but I have no problem with it.


There are some versions of the world's idea of "politeness" that are just not going to fit Biblical parameters.

I would urge the moderation team to consider again what exactly was WRONG with Carm moderation.

It is really not a good idea to EMULATE and COPY the Carm method of moderation, which guarded itself from all criticism.
 
Please explain, Wrangler, why the Lamb mentioned in Revelation 4 and 5, which we know is Jesus, did NOT fall down and worship the One Who sits on the throne (which we know is God the Father), as did the four living creatures, the twenty-four elders, multiplied billions of angels AND EVERY CREATED THING (proving right there that the Lamb, Jesus, was NOT created) which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them. The answer is obvious, even though you may not like it. The LAMB did not worship God the Father, because He Himself was God, and all the above mentioned people and created things worshiped Him RIGHT ALONG with their worship of the Father.
 
I don't mind if people call me names. Either the term is accurate (like Biblical Unitarian, man, American, Libertarian) or it is not.

If the term truthfully applies, there is no defense. If the term does not truly apply, no defense is needed. The ongoing use of the inaccurate term says more about the speaker than the listener (or writer than reader, if you prefer).

In my lifetime, our society has become feminized. As such, we've become overly sensitive to name calling. Growing up, I was taught 'sticks and stones.' Such wisdom is rejected today.

A non-theological parallel is the abortion debate. I used to tell supporters it is unconstitutional. They fumed. But it remained true. Their response was the SC Court said there is a Constitutional right. My reply: extreme eisegesis. I'd ask what Article-Section-Clause acknowledges abortion as a right? No answer but more fuming, name calling, escalation of emotions.

I realize I am far more attentive to explicit Scripture than others. In another forum I started a thread about how I see doctrine in Christiandom generally becoming an IDOL. I touched on it here in our forum today. I often say there is no doctrinal purity test to be saved. I know this unnerves those proud of their doctrinal understanding. My Pastor said in Sunday's sermon that people are not moved to Christ because of an eloquent, intellectual argument; they are moved by experience with the divine. Thoughts?
Actually sticks and stones was a lie from the pit. The most lasting and hurtful things that are done to people are those demeaning words that people say to others that last a lifetime by spiritual, emotional and pyscological abuse by husbands to their wives and parents to their children. Those hurt and last decades longer than stick/stones. The Bible is full of rebuking those with foul mouths, demeaning and belittling talk, putting down others etc......

Do you need me to post 100 plus scriptures to prove my point ? Proverbs is full of them and so is Jesus and the Apostles teaching in the N.T. filled with how we should talk and teat others, even our enemies.

Thanks for the opportunity to dispell another fable/myth that is a lie.

hope this helps !!!
 
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