The Trinity made easy

[Peterlag]

God was always=one, not two or three. There was no godhead taught prior to 381 ce. Its recorded history.

Hey @Keiw1 can I add this... A study of the history of the Christian Church shows a definite development in the doctrine of the Trinity over the centuries. For example, the early form of the Apostles Creed (believed to date back to shortly after the time of the apostles themselves) does not mention the Trinity or the dual nature of Christ. The Nicene Creed that was written in 325 AD and modified later added the material about Jesus Christ being “eternally begotten” and the "true God” and about the Holy Spirit being “Lord.” But it was the Athanasian Creed that was most likely composed in the latter part of the 4th century or possibly even as early as the 5th century that was the first creed to explicitly state the doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[101G]

To all,
since the topic is "the trinity made easy". let's make it very easy.
question, "Who raised up the body of the Lord Jesus the Christ? a. God, per Acts 3:26, and Acts 5:30 and there are more. or b. the Lord Jesus himself. see John 2:18-22.

which answer is correct, a, b, or both? ......... now this is made easy.

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

To all,
since the topic is "the trinity made easy". let's make it very easy.
question, "Who raised up the body of the Lord Jesus the Christ? a. God, per Acts 3:26, and Acts 5:30 and there are more. or b. the Lord Jesus himself. see John 2:18-22.

which answer is correct, a, b, or both? ......... now this is made easy.

101G.

A

 

[101G]

A

A..... (smile). did you examine B? John 2:18 "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?" John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." John 2:20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?" John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body."

knowing this, is not the Lord Jesus the God of our fathers? yes, according to the bible. let's see. the apostle Paul, then Saul, was on his way to Damascus, and he encountered a bright Light while on the road. one can find this account in Acts chapter 9. but now Paul, he's an apostle of the Lord Jesus, in Jerusalem and retells his account on the road to Damascus, and meets a disciple name Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there in Damascus. and Paul in his recount of what happen to his, he makes this statement. Acts 22:12 "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there," Acts 22:13 "Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him." Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."

BINGO, it was the God of our fathers who had chosen Paul, then Saul. and it was the Lord Jesus who meet him and choose him. so the Lord Jesus is the God of our fathers.

so the correct answer is both, for the Lord Jesus is the God of our fathers. Pet...... you're in ERROR, try again......

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

A..... (smile). did you examine B? John 2:18 "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?" John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." John 2:20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?" John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body."

knowing this, is not the Lord Jesus the God of our fathers? yes, according to the bible. let's see. the apostle Paul, then Saul, was on his way to Damascus, and he encountered a bright Light while on the road. one can find this account in Acts chapter 9. but now Paul, he's an apostle of the Lord Jesus, in Jerusalem and retells his account on the road to Damascus, and meets a disciple name Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there in Damascus. and Paul in his recount of what happen to his, he makes this statement. Acts 22:12 "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there," Acts 22:13 "Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him." Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."

BINGO, it was the God of our fathers who had chosen Paul, then Saul. and it was the Lord Jesus who meet him and choose him. so the Lord Jesus is the God of our fathers.

so the correct answer is both, for the Lord Jesus is the God of our fathers. Pet...... you're in ERROR, try again......

101G.

No I did not look at B since the correct answer is A.

 

[101G]

No I did not look at B since the correct answer is A.

again ERROR, for if you look at B then you would have know it was BOTH. but as said, you have been in ERROR quite a bit. let's try again, ok, Hebrews 1:10 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:" now this Zechariah 12:1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him."

now brother Peterlag, is the "Lord" in Hebrews 1:10 who Laid the foundation of the earth, is the same ONE PERSON in Zechariah 12:1 who Laid the foundation of the earth? yes or no.

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

again ERROR, for if you look at B then you would have know it was BOTH. but as said, you have been in ERROR quite a bit. let's try again, ok, Hebrews 1:10 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:" now this Zechariah 12:1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him."

now brother Peterlag, is the "Lord" in Hebrews 1:10 who Laid the foundation of the earth, is the same ONE PERSON in Zechariah 12:1 who Laid the foundation of the earth? yes or no.

101G.

I disagree.

 

[Keiw1]

I definitely recognize God has always been one. That is why we have a doctrine of the Trinity. And it is really ignorant to say God did not exist until 381. That is just the point in time that agreement was made about the nature of the Godhead. Like mentioned earlier, people had to recognize the Holy Spirit as having the same attributes and overlapping functions with the Father and the Son. How do you define these same attributes of God if they are shared among them but are obvious, at the same time, differentiated? You have to provide explanation of these or you are just whitewashing the issues. You have to convince the upper echelon to duke it out with the trinitarians to show there is a better doctrine if possible.

I suppose it does not matter what you believe though. The 144000 spots are all ready filled.

I didn't say God didnt exist until 381-Don't twist my words please. I said no trinity was ever taught prior to 381 ce, its recorded history. Israel NEVER served a trinity God-When Jesus and every bible writer attended the Israelite places of worship, all were taught, served and worshipped the Abrahamic God= a single being God=YHVH(Jehovah)

 

[Keiw1]

Which Greek text do you find acceptable for generating the best starting point for translations? And that is quite amazing that Satan has more power than God in your doctrines.

Isaiah was written in Hebrew. All Greek lexicons were done out of Catholicism translating. Satan don't have more power than God, but the whole world is lying in his power. He made Israel fall over and over did he not? Any who read the bible see 99% mislead at every given point in time( a possible slighter # when Israel stood strong but not by much) God foretold the great apostasy( 2Thess 2:3=the son of peredition) = Catholicism and her hundreds of branches.

 

[Keiw1]

Hey @Keiw1 can I add this... A study of the history of the Christian Church shows a definite development in the doctrine of the Trinity over the centuries. For example, the early form of the Apostles Creed (believed to date back to shortly after the time of the apostles themselves) does not mention the Trinity or the dual nature of Christ. The Nicene Creed that was written in 325 AD and modified later added the material about Jesus Christ being “eternally begotten” and the "true God” and about the Holy Spirit being “Lord.” But it was the Athanasian Creed that was most likely composed in the latter part of the 4th century or possibly even as early as the 5th century that was the first creed to explicitly state the doctrine of the Trinity.

381 ce at the council of Constantinople the Holy spirit was added to a godhead for the very first time. Catholicisms own encyclopedia 1967-Vol XIV-page 299-- The formulation one God in three persons was not assimilated into Christian life prior till the end of the 4th century. Among the apostolic Fathers there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective((( of God being a trinity)))
Catholicism=2Thess 2:3--and her hundreds of branches.

 

[101G]

I disagree.

so you disagree with scriptures then. just as 101G thought.

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

381 ce at the council of Constantinople the Holy spirit was added to a godhead for the very first time. Catholicisms own encyclopedia 1967-Vol XIV-page 299-- The formulation one God in three persons was not assimilated into Christian life prior till the end of the 4th century. Among the apostolic Fathers there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective((( of God being a trinity)))
Catholicism=2Thess 2:3--and her hundreds of branches.

Much of the Roman Catholic doctrine was assimilated into Protestantism and is still being passed along as Christian groups continue to split off from one another. In a nutshell that is why even the independent church in your neighborhood today most probably believes that there is a trinity, dead people are alive, God is in control of everything that happens, the Four Gospels are written to Christians, and water baptism is relevant. And then there's everything that you know about our sin nature was taught to you by them.

 

[Peterlag]

I didn't say God didnt exist until 381-Don't twist my words please. I said no trinity was ever taught prior to 381 ce, its recorded history. Israel NEVER served a trinity God-When Jesus and every bible writer attended the Israelite places of worship, all were taught, served and worshipped the Abrahamic God= a single being God=YHVH(Jehovah)

I write it this way... God gave the Scriptures to the Jewish people, and the Jewish religion and worship that comes from that revelation does not contain any reference to or teachings about a triune God. Surely the Jewish people were qualified to read and understand it, but they never saw the doctrine of the Trinity, but rather just the opposite as all throughout their history they fiercely defended the fact that there was only one God.

 

[Peterlag]

so you disagree with scriptures then. just as 101G thought.

101G.

I disagree with you. Not the Scriptures. What I cannot figure out and it appears I will never know is what do you believe since you have taken the Messiah right out of the picture and then wiped out the spirit of Christ by making the spirit some kind of a God. So what is it that you believe? What is your religion about? Just try to be good everyday so that God will like you?

 

[101G]

I disagree with you. Not the Scriptures.

GINOLJC, to all.
there is no reason to disagree with 101G, 101G did not speak, nor wrote any scripture. 101G suggest you address the scriptures only.

What I cannot figure out and it appears I will never know is what do you believe since you have taken the Messiah right out of the picture and then wiped out the spirit of Christ by making the spirit some kind of a God.

(smile), your opinion? a. what 101G believes is this, "The Diversified Oneness", of God in the ECHAD of his own self, Just as the scriptures clearly states. b. you said, "since you have taken the Messiah right out of the picture and then wiped out the spirit of Christ by making the spirit some kind of a God". another personal opinion? see above. but to show you what 101G believe as a "Diversified Oneness", .... the Spirit of Christ. supportive scripture, 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:" 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

the Spirit of Christ in the prophet of Old? yes, the Holy Spirit, 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." 2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." this is what 101G believe...... (smile)..... God is a "Diversity" of himself in flesh. this is the "ECHAD" of God as ONE.

So what is it that you believe? What is your religion about? Just try to be good everyday so that God will like you?

see above, but once again, 101G is a, "Diversified Oneness", who believe that there is one God who is ONE PERSON, in the ECHAD of himself in flesh. who in the ECHAD of himself, in ordinal designations as FIRST and LAST ..... (smile).

as you said, "Just try to be good everyday so that God will like you?" in order to do that, Just ask 101G of his beliefs instead of assuming personal opinions.

thanks in the Lord Christ Jesus.

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

GINOLJC, to all.
there is no reason to disagree with 101G, 101G did not speak, nor wrote any scripture. 101G suggest you address the scriptures only.

(smile), your opinion? a. what 101G believes is this, "The Diversified Oneness", of God in the ECHAD of his own self, Just as the scriptures clearly states. b. you said, "since you have taken the Messiah right out of the picture and then wiped out the spirit of Christ by making the spirit some kind of a God". another personal opinion? see above. but to show you what 101G believe as a "Diversified Oneness", .... the Spirit of Christ. supportive scripture, 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:" 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

the Spirit of Christ in the prophet of Old? yes, the Holy Spirit, 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." 2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." this is what 101G believe...... (smile)..... God is a "Diversity" of himself in flesh. this is the "ECHAD" of God as ONE.

see above, but once again, 101G is a, "Diversified Oneness", who believe that there is one God who is ONE PERSON, in the ECHAD of himself in flesh. who in the ECHAD of himself, in ordinal designations as FIRST and LAST ..... (smile).

as you said, "Just try to be good everyday so that God will like you?" in order to do that, Just ask 101G of his beliefs instead of assuming personal opinions.

thanks in the Lord Christ Jesus.

101G.

Concerning the the spirit of Christ... This verse uses the phrase “spirit of Christ” because God revealed information about the Christ to believers via the gift of holy spirit. Unfortunately, some people have misunderstood the phrase and think it means Christ himself was present in the Old Testament, but he was not. In the first place, the phrase “spirit of Christ” never appears in the Old Testament. The “spirit of the Lord” or “the spirit of God” appears over and over, but never the “spirit of Christ.” If Jesus were alive during the Old Testament, we would expect to see that designation, but we do not.

The gift of holy spirit that God gave in the Old Testament and Gospels was always the same spirit, but it was referred to by different names depending on the context. We are used to this when it comes to God. There is only one God, but He has many different names and titles. Similarly, there is only one gift of holy spirit, but it is referred to by different names in different contexts. When it is associated with wisdom, it is called the “spirit of wisdom” (Exod. 28:3; Deut. 34:9; Eph. 1:17). When it is associated with grace, it is called the “spirit of grace” (Zech. 12:10; Heb. 10:29). When it is related to glory, it is called the “spirit of glory” (1 Pet. 4:14). It is called the “spirit of adoption” when it is associated with our everlasting life (Rom. 8:15, which is translated as “spirit of sonship” in some versions). It is called “the spirit of truth” when it is associated with the truth we learn by revelation (John 14:17; 16:13). When it came with the same power as it brought to Elijah, it was called “the spirit of Elijah” (2 Kings 2:15). These are not different spirits. All the names refer to the one gift of holy spirit that God gives.

When Peter mentions that “the spirit of Christ” was upon prophets as they “predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glory that would follow,” it is easy to see that the spirit is called the “spirit of Christ” because it is associated with Christ, foretold of Christ, and was the same holy spirit as Jesus himself received at his baptism, not because Christ was actually alive during the Old Testament. Thus, the genitive phrase, “the spirit of Christ” is a genitive of relation; the spirit that is related to Christ.

 

[101G]

Concerning the the spirit of Christ... This verse uses the phrase “spirit of Christ” because God revealed information about the Christ to believers via the gift of holy spirit. Unfortunately, some people have misunderstood the phrase and think it means Christ himself was present in the Old Testament, but he was not. In the first place, the phrase “spirit of Christ” never appears in the Old Testament. The “spirit of the Lord” or “the spirit of God” appears over and over, but never the “spirit of Christ.” If Jesus were alive during the Old Testament, we would expect to see that designation, but we do not.

The gift of holy spirit that God gave in the Old Testament and Gospels was always the same spirit, but it was referred to by different names depending on the context. We are used to this when it comes to God. There is only one God, but He has many different names and titles. Similarly, there is only one gift of holy spirit, but it is referred to by different names in different contexts. When it is associated with wisdom, it is called the “spirit of wisdom” (Exod. 28:3; Deut. 34:9; Eph. 1:17). When it is associated with grace, it is called the “spirit of grace” (Zech. 12:10; Heb. 10:29). When it is related to glory, it is called the “spirit of glory” (1 Pet. 4:14). It is called the “spirit of adoption” when it is associated with our everlasting life (Rom. 8:15, which is translated as “spirit of sonship” in some versions). It is called “the spirit of truth” when it is associated with the truth we learn by revelation (John 14:17; 16:13). When it came with the same power as it brought to Elijah, it was called “the spirit of Elijah” (2 Kings 2:15). These are not different spirits. All the names refer to the one gift of holy spirit that God gives.

When Peter mentions that “the spirit of Christ” was upon prophets as they “predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glory that would follow,” it is easy to see that the spirit is called the “spirit of Christ” because it is associated with Christ, foretold of Christ, and was the same holy spirit as Jesus himself received at his baptism, not because Christ was actually alive during the Old Testament. Thus, the genitive phrase, “the spirit of Christ” is a genitive of relation; the spirit that is related to Christ.

another ERROR on your part. scripture, Hebrews 1:1 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets," Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"

the term EXPRESS is "Exact" meaning the same one Person, who is the same IMAGE, or character of God manifested in flesh as the ECHAD of himself, so try again. we notice you have no knowledge of God at all. please read your bible with the Holy Spirit... ok, yes the Spirit of Christ who is God.

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

another ERROR on your part. scripture, Hebrews 1:1 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets," Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"

the term EXPRESS is "Exact" meaning the same one Person, who is the same IMAGE, or character of God manifested in flesh as the ECHAD of himself, so try again. we notice you have no knowledge of God at all. please read your bible with the Holy Spirit... ok, yes the Spirit of Christ who is God.

101G.

“ages.” The Greek word is the plural of aiōn (#165 αἰών ) and means “ages.” This verse is referring to the “ages,” not the “world.” Vine’s Lexicon has, “an age, a period of time, marked in the N.T. usage by spiritual or moral characteristics, is sometimes translated ‘world;’ the R.V. margin always has ‘age.’”a Bullinger’s Critical Lexicon has: “Aion [age], from ao, aemi, to blow, to breathe. Aion denoted originally the life which hastes away in the breathing of our breath, life as transitory; then the course of life, time of life, life in its temporal form. Then, the space of a human life, an age, or generation in respect of duration. The time lived or to be lived by men, time as moving, historical time as well as eternity. Aion always includes a reference to the filling of time.”b

Since most translators are Trinitarian and think that Jesus was the one who made the original heavens and earth, they translate “ages” as “world,” or even “universe” in this verse. There are other Greek words that mean “world,” such as kosmos and oikoumene, and when the Devil tempted Jesus by showing him all the kingdoms of the “world,” these words are used. In Hebrews 1:2 aiōn means “ages,” and should be translated that way.

 

[101G]

“ages.” The Greek word is the plural of aiōn (#165 αἰών ) and means “ages.” This verse is referring to the “ages,” not the “world.” Vine’s Lexicon has, “an age, a period of time, marked in the N.T. usage by spiritual or moral characteristics, is sometimes translated ‘world;’ the R.V. margin always has ‘age.’”a Bullinger’s Critical Lexicon has: “Aion [age], from ao, aemi, to blow, to breathe. Aion denoted originally the life which hastes away in the breathing of our breath, life as transitory; then the course of life, time of life, life in its temporal form. Then, the space of a human life, an age, or generation in respect of duration. The time lived or to be lived by men, time as moving, historical time as well as eternity. Aion always includes a reference to the filling of time.”b

Since most translators are Trinitarian and think that Jesus was the one who made the original heavens and earth, they translate “ages” as “world,” or even “universe” in this verse. There are other Greek words that mean “world,” such as kosmos and oikoumene, and when the Devil tempted Jesus by showing him all the kingdoms of the “world,” these words are used. In Hebrews 1:2 aiōn means “ages,” and should be translated that way.

This is what 101G is speaking about. you never LISTEN nor read a reply completely do you? .... so stay in darkness.

101G

 

[Peterlag]

This is what 101G is speaking about. you never LISTEN nor read a reply completely do you? .... so stay in darkness.

101G

I look over your posts, but only comment on some of it. Mostly I see your foundation is off and on that you build your religion.