The Trinity made easy

[101G]

I look over your posts, but only comment on some of it. Mostly I see your foundation is off and on that you build your religion.

(smile), .... Lol lol, lol. 101G's foundation is solid, starting at Genesis 1:1 which set the stage of God's plurality of him being only "ONE" person of himself in the ECHAD Ordinal designations of "FIRST"/Father/CREATOR, and Maker of ALL THINGS, Just as Isaiah 44:24 and John 1:3 states. and the "LAST"/Son/REDEEMER, and Saviour of ALL THINGS, just as Isaiah 60:16, and Titus 2:13 also states.

so, no need to further reply. in Christ Jesus thanks.

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

(smile), .... Lol lol, lol. 101G's foundation is solid, starting at Genesis 1:1 which set the stage of God's plurality of him being only "ONE" person of himself in the ECHAD Ordinal designations of "FIRST"/Father/CREATOR, and Maker of ALL THINGS, Just as Isaiah 44:24 and John 1:3 states. and the "LAST"/Son/REDEEMER, and Saviour of ALL THINGS, just as Isaiah 60:16, and Titus 2:13 also states.

so, no need to further reply. in Christ Jesus thanks.

101G.

You must be Catholic. Catholic or Jewish. Do you believe everything the Catholics do? Much of the Roman Catholic doctrine was assimilated into Protestantism and is still being passed along as Christian groups continue to split off from one another. In a nutshell that is why even the independent church in your neighborhood today most probably believes that there is a trinity, dead people are alive, God is in control of everything that happens, the Four Gospels are written to Christians, and water baptism is relevant.And then there's everything that you know about our sin nature was taught to you by them.

 

[dwight92070]

Hey @Keiw1 can I add this... A study of the history of the Christian Church shows a definite development in the doctrine of the Trinity over the centuries. For example, the early form of the Apostles Creed (believed to date back to shortly after the time of the apostles themselves) does not mention the Trinity or the dual nature of Christ. The Nicene Creed that was written in 325 AD and modified later added the material about Jesus Christ being “eternally begotten” and the "true God” and about the Holy Spirit being “Lord.” But it was the Athanasian Creed that was most likely composed in the latter part of the 4th century or possibly even as early as the 5th century that was the first creed to explicitly state the doctrine of the Trinity.

You said, "A study of the history of the Christian Church shows a definite development in the doctrine of the Trinity over the centuries."

Unless you believe the New Testament, which apparently you don't." Even the apostles who authored the New Testament books, Matthew, John, Paul, Peter, and/or their close associates, Mark, Luke, James, Jude, and the author of Hebrews, knew that Jesus was God, that the Holy Spirit was God, and of course, that the Father was God. The only thing that was developed over the centuries was what to call that concept - and of course the many denials of that truth, just like you are doing today. It eventually became known as the Trinity.

Regarding the Trinity, your so-called knowledge of history and all your other "reasoning" means "zero", when compared to the New Testament truth.

 

[Peterlag]

You said, "A study of the history of the Christian Church shows a definite development in the doctrine of the Trinity over the centuries."

Unless you believe the New Testament, which apparently you don't." Even the apostles who authored the New Testament books, Matthew, John, Paul, Peter, and/or their close associates, Mark, Luke, James, Jude, and the author of Hebrews, knew that Jesus was God, that the Holy Spirit was God, and of course, that the Father was God. The only thing that was developed over the centuries was what to call that concept - and of course the many denials of that truth, just like you are doing today. It eventually became known as the Trinity.

Regarding the Trinity, your so-called knowledge of history and all your other "reasoning" means "zero", when compared to the New Testament truth.

Matthew, John, Paul, Peter, and/or their close associates, Mark, Luke, James, Jude, and the author of Hebrews, did not think or teach that Jesus was God. In fact, there's no teaching on it anywhere in the entire Bible. Scholars admit that there are only about eight verses in the entire New Testament that can be understood to say that Jesus is God, and every one of them can either be translated in a way that supports the Biblical Unitarian position, or disputed textually, or can be explained from the use of the word “God” in the culture. In contrast, the clear verses where Jesus is said to be a “man” such as when Peter or Paul taught their audiences that Jesus was a man appointed by God are not disputed and in the context there does not seem to be any good reason those men would not have said Jesus was a God-man if in fact that is what he is.

Actually, the book of Hebrews seems to clear up the subject when it says that when Jesus was on the earth that he was made like us in every way: “Therefore he [Jesus] had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God”(Hebrews 2:17). This verse shows that Jesus was not both fully human and fully God at the same time and if he was then he would not be like us in every respect. Adam, the first man was fully human and by his sin brought sin into the world. Jesus is called the “last Adam” (1Corinthians 15:45) and it seems that designation would not be appropriate if Jesus was not fully human in the same way that Adam was.

 

[dwight92070]

You don't see it because you don't want to see it, which is also true of the supposed scholars that you choose to agree with. You yourself said that there are "about eight verses" in the New Testament that say Jesus is God. Actually there are far more than that. But your "scholars", being biased, cannot accept that, so they go about seeking ways to twist the simple truth of those verses. Cults do the same thing. They are so committed to their pet doctrine, that they can't accept any verse that contradicts them, at face value. They ignore the simple truth staring right at them and say, "What this really means is .... blah, blah, blah."
For example, John says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. This one was in the beginning with God. John 1:1-2
The plain truth that John gives us here is that the Word is eternal like God, that He is distinct from God, because He was with Him - and yet at the same time, He is God.
John goes on to tell us, "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14
From this testimony of John, we plainly see that God became a man, obviously Jesus,

Now you and your "scholars" go into contortions with these verses, because they clearly teach what you don't want them to, so you pull "reasons" out of thin air as to why they can't really mean what they really are saying.
The truth is John means what he says, and says what he means. The mistake many make is they listen to people like you and your "scholars", when they should be listening to the apostle John. John's words are the word of God, yours are the words of men.

 

[Peterlag]

You don't see it because you don't want to see it, which is also true of the supposed scholars that you choose to agree with. You yourself said that there are "about eight verses" in the New Testament that say Jesus is God. Actually there are far more than that. But your "scholars", being biased, cannot accept that, so they go about seeking ways to twist the simple truth of those verses. Cults do the same thing. They are so committed to their pet doctrine, that they can't accept any verse that contradicts them, at face value. They ignore the simple truth staring right at them and say, "What this really means is .... blah, blah, blah."
For example, John says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. This one was in the beginning with God. John 1:1-2
The plain truth that John gives us here is that the Word is eternal like God, that He is distinct from God, because He was with Him - and yet at the same time, He is God.
John goes on to tell us, "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14
From this testimony of John, we plainly see that God became a man, obviously Jesus,

Now you and your "scholars" go into contortions with these verses, because they clearly teach what you don't want them to, so you pull "reasons" out of thin air as to why they can't really mean what they really are saying.
The truth is John means what he says, and says what he means. The mistake many make is they listen to people like you and your "scholars", when they should be listening to the apostle John. John's words are the word of God, yours are the words of men.

Jesus is not God. I wrote about Jesus and you can view it here... https://walking-by-the-spirit.com

 

[dwight92070]

Really? You expect me to look at something YOU wrote, when I already know what you're writing here on this forum contradicts scripture? No, it's not man's words that give us truth, unless they agree with the clear teaching of the word of God - and yours don't. '
I just gave you a clear, easy to understand scripture by the apostle John, which plainly tells us that Jesus IS God, so why would I waste my time filling my mind with your words, which say the opposite of the apostle John?

 

[Peterlag]

Really? You expect me to look at something YOU wrote, when I already know what you're writing here on this forum contradicts scripture? No, it's not man's words that give us truth, unless they agree with the clear teaching of the word of God - and yours don't. '
I just gave you a clear, easy to understand scripture by the apostle John, which plainly tells us that Jesus IS God, so why would I waste my time filling my mind with your words, which say the opposite of the apostle John?

My words are not the opposite of the Apostle John. I do find it interesting that when you speak it's God's Word. But when I speak it's not God's Word. There is not one verse that says Jesus is God the Son. Nor has there ever been a teaching on it anywhere in the Bible. The Jews never saw it anywhere in the entire Old Testament nor anyone in the New Testament ever taught it. The Catholics who invented this nonsense have used only about 8 verses that they have to piece together from statements that are scattered all over the New Testament. One should think if such nonsense was true and important that it would have been taught by someone. And it is not. Only in the minds of Catholics who cannot explain it.

 

[101G]

Really? You expect me to look at something YOU wrote, when I already know what you're writing here on this forum contradicts scripture? No, it's not man's words that give us truth, unless they agree with the clear teaching of the word of God - and yours don't. '
I just gave you a clear, easy to understand scripture by the apostle John, which plainly tells us that Jesus IS God, so why would I waste my time filling my mind with your words, which say the opposite of the apostle John?

GINOLJC, to all. also @synergy, @mikesw, @charismaticlady,
what you said is very interesting, "it's not man's words that give us truth, unless they agree with the clear teaching of the word of God.". without argument, but clear truth, 101G ask you, do the scriptures here states that this is the same one person.

A. John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." now, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

there are three KEYWORD to look at.
#1. I am the LORD that maketh all things. now if you say that God, (the LORD) went through the Lord Jesus to make all things, you have a problem. because John 1: states "ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM", and Isaiah 44:24 said I, I, I, (a single person MADE ALL THINGS, BY HIMSELF). now if that's the Lord Jesus who MADE ALL THINGS, then the Lord Jesus is the "LORD", all caps, or there is two LORD'S. and
the term through, or by in Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" BY here means,
BY: G846 αὐτός autos (af-tos')
self.
{reflexive pronoun used of the third person (alone or in the comparative G1438), and of the other persons (with the proper personal pronoun)}
[from the particle au (perhaps akin to the base of G109 through the idea of a baffling wind (backward))]
KJV: her, it(-self), one, the other, (mine) own, said, (self-), (the) same, (him-, my-, thy-)self, (your-)selves, she, that, their(-s), them(-selves), there(-at, - by, -in, -into, -of, -on, -with), they, (these) things, this (man), those, together, very, which
Compare: G848
See also: G1438, G109

and the term "THROUGH" according to the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English, means,
THROUGH, prep. thru.
1. From end to end, or from side to side; from one surface or limit to the opposite; as, to bore through a piece of timber, or through a board; a ball passes through the side of a ship.
2. Noting passage; as, to pass through a gate or avenue.
Through the gates of iv'ry he dismiss'd
His valiant offspring.
3. By transmission, noting the means of conveyance.
Through these hands this science has passed with great applause.
Material things are presented only through their senses.
4. By means of; by the agency of; noting instrumentality. This signification is a derivative of the last.
Through the scent of water it will bud. Job 14.
Some through ambition, or through thirst of gold,
Have slain their brothers, and their country sold.
Sanctify them through thy truth. John 17.
The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 6.

through means BY, just as the LORD said, "BY" himself, and he was "ALONE". so, the LORD was alone and did not go through anyone else. this is crystal clear.

#2 & #3. the "LORD" said he was Alone and by HIMSELF. which means there was only PERSON who made all things. and the term "ALONE, as well as "BY ONESELF", means, "having no one else present". which present a BIG PROBLEM, because if the other two person are GOD also, where was they if one person .... "ALONE" mad ALL THINGS ...... "BY HIMSELF".

now, 101G is not asking this for an argument, but for edification. remember what you said, "it's not man's words that give us truth, unless they agree with the clear teaching of the word of God." now is this CLEAR teaching of God here in John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 that agrees with what some or most men are teaching today, that God is a trinity of persons? this is an honest question. as said, not for argument, but for TRUTH.101G ask, examine both of these scriptures and this post carefully and closely. if you do not agree, let's discuss.

101G.

 

[charismaticlady]

Biblical Unitarian position

Hi Peter. Why did you use the word Unitarian? That is a denomination that believes all mankind will be in heaven. I'm confused.

 

[Peterlag]

Hi Peter. Why did you use the word Unitarian? That is a denomination that believes all mankind will be in heaven. I'm confused.

Unitarian: One who believes that the deity exists only in one person... (Webster Dictionary)
Unitarian: A member of a Christian Church that does not believe in the Trinity... (Cambridge Dictionary)

 

[charismaticlady]

Unitarian: One who believes that the deity exists only in one person... (Webster Dictionary)
Unitarian: A member of a Christian Church that does not believe in the Trinity... (Cambridge Dictionary)

I didn't know they do not believe in the Trinity though they do believe Jesus Christ is the Savior. All I knew of them was Jesus saved everyone, not just those who believe in Him. I don't think JW's go that far do they?

 

[Peterlag]

I didn't know they do not believe in the Trinity though they do believe Jesus Christ is the Savior. All I knew of them was Jesus saved everyone, not just those who believe in Him. I don't think JW's go that far do they?

I don't know anything about the JW's.

 

[charismaticlady]

I don't know anything about the JW's.

Are you Unitarian? If not, what denomination do you agree with, if any?

 

[Peterlag]

Are you Unitarian? If not, what denomination do you agree with, if any?

The word Unitarian is a word that describes a person who does not believe in the trinity. That's what I am. I have no knowledge about a denomination called Unitarian. I am not with any group. I am an expert in biblical data concerning the resurrected Christ Jesus. A surgeon will laboriously study surgical techniques for years to learn how to practice tying a knot in the slimmest suture with three fingers from one hand. Why? Because of the dedication to become an expert in their field. Like commitment, dedication is an act of the will. A person by the freedom of their will chooses to set aside two hours a day to play tennis, practice the piano, paint landscapes, or study the Scriptures in order to become adept in that area. Those who become highly skilled or an expert in any field do so because of discipline and dedication to excel.

 

[charismaticlady]

The word Unitarian is a word that describes a person who does not believe in the trinity. That's what I am. I have no knowledge about a denomination called Unitarian. I am not with any group. I am an expert in biblical data concerning the resurrected Christ Jesus. A surgeon will laboriously study surgical techniques for years to learn how to practice tying a knot in the slimmest suture with three fingers from one hand. Why? Because of the dedication to become an expert in their field. Like commitment, dedication is an act of the will. A person by the freedom of their will chooses to set aside two hours a day to play tennis, practice the piano, paint landscapes, or study the Scriptures in order to become adept in that area. Those who become highly skilled or an expert in any field do so because of discipline and dedication to excel.

So you are a lone ranger like me. LOL I grew up in a denomination, then left and attended another denomination for a year until I learned that Cessationism is not true. How about you? Do you know what a Cessationist is and are you of that belief that all gifts of the Spirit ended with the death of the last apostle, or the printing of the Bible? Anyway, I sought the infilling of the Holy Spirit for 6 years until I gave up, and God did it on His own. It is amazing when you try to stop sinning, and find out that we can't and it was then I gave up trying to repent according to the common definition of repentance being "turning away from sin." I just couldn't. I loved my sin too much to stay turned away for very long. Usually 3 days and then back at it. But all of this is in my testimony. Its too long to post here.

 

[Peterlag]

So you are a lone ranger like me. LOL I grew up in a denomination, then left and attended another denomination for a year until I learned that Cessationism is not true. How about you? Do you know what a Cessationist is and are you of that belief that all gifts of the Spirit ended with the death of the last apostle, or the printing of the Bible? Anyway, I sought the infilling of the Holy Spirit for 6 years until I gave up, and God did it on His own. It is amazing when you try to stop sinning, and find out that we can't and it was then I gave up trying to repent according to the common definition of repentance being "turning away from sin." I just couldn't. I loved my sin too much to stay turned away for very long. Usually 3 days and then back at it. But all of this is in my testimony. Its too long to post here.

I write about this and you don't need to read to far to see it because much of it is in the first chapter... https://walking-by-the-spirit.com

 

[mikesw]

Am I a unitarian? I believe in the three persons of the Godhead exist in unity -- and thus a unitarian concept.
It would be silly to be called a unitarian if there was just one person of the Godhead. If you held to just one person in the Godhead and were anti-unitarian, that would imply that you think God is not in unity by himself in the Godhead.

 

[101G]

The word Unitarian is a word that describes a person who does not believe in the trinity. That's what I am. I have no knowledge about a denomination called Unitarian. I am not with any group. I am an expert in biblical data concerning the resurrected Christ Jesus. A surgeon will laboriously study surgical techniques for years to learn how to practice tying a knot in the slimmest suture with three fingers from one hand. Why? Because of the dedication to become an expert in their field. Like commitment, dedication is an act of the will. A person by the freedom of their will chooses to set aside two hours a day to play tennis, practice the piano, paint landscapes, or study the Scriptures in order to become adept in that area. Those who become highly skilled or an expert in any field do so because of discipline and dedication to excel.

GINOLJC, to all.
"I am not with any group. I am an expert in biblical data concerning the resurrected Christ Jesus.", Good to hear that, Peter. since you're a surgeon of the scriptures, (especially on the risen Christ), may 101G ask you one simple question. in John 1:3 the Person there who MADE ALL THINGS, is this not the same one person in Isaiah 44:24 who MADE ALL THINGS" just a yes or no please. no explanation is need ok, just a yes or no.
thanks in advance,

101G.

 

[101G]

So you are a lone ranger like me. LOL I grew up in a denomination, then left and attended another denomination for a year until I learned that Cessationism is not true. How about you? Do you know what a Cessationist is and are you of that belief that all gifts of the Spirit ended with the death of the last apostle, or the printing of the Bible? Anyway, I sought the infilling of the Holy Spirit for 6 years until I gave up, and God did it on His own. It is amazing when you try to stop sinning, and find out that we can't and it was then I gave up trying to repent according to the common definition of repentance being "turning away from sin." I just couldn't. I loved my sin too much to stay turned away for very long. Usually 3 days and then back at it. But all of this is in my testimony. Its too long to post here.

don't mean to butt into your conversation. but is not the Lord Jesus an apostle? Hebrews 3:1 "Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;" is he, the Lord Jesus alive TODAY or DEAD? there is your proof.

now about your sinning. 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." READ THAT AGAIN. and now re-read Hebrews 3:1a "Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling" Heavenly, Heavenly, Heavenly... CALLING? .... have you made it there yet? now finish reading Hebrews from chapter 3 again. but before you do let's finish ...... 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

this is why we have an advocate, next chapter. 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" 1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

now question, who is the advocate? let's see.
ADVOCATE: G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822

Definition #2, an intercessor, who is the COMFORTER? yes the same Spirit of supplications? yes, let's see it. Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

Supplications: H8469 תַּחֲנוּן tachanuwn (tach-an-oon') n-m.
תַּחֲנוּנָה tachanuwnah (tach-an-oo-naw') [feminine]
earnest prayer.
[from H2603]
KJV: intreaty, supplication.
Root(s): H2603

earnest prayer? Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered." now what is 101G saying about your, ... OUR ... sins? WE ALL MUST GROW UP, and we have HELP until we do.

101G.