The Trinity and the Incarnation
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Johann
Well-known member
The plural forms occurring in Genesis 1:26; 3:5 and 3:22 were examined in the Babylonian Talmud. In the case of Genesis 1:26, the tractate Sanhedrin57 suggested that God said "let us make [...]" to his heavenly court, and it highlighted God's unity based on the fact that in Genesis 1:27 was the subject of the singular form of the verb (). Thus, in Genesis 1:26 God contemplated and announced his intention of creating human-kind in the presence of his angels, whereas Genesis 1:27 reported that God's action had been accomplished. Since God said "let us make [...]" to the angels, "our image", in which humankind was created according to Genesis 1:26, was interpreted as the image both of God and of his angels. Consequently, the image denoted the features which were shared both by God and by the angels.
The tractate Megillah58 and the minor tractate of the Babylonian Talmud called Sofrim59implied that in Genesis 1:26 (let us make) should be interpreted as if God was the sole Maker () [I will make]. In the case of Genesis 3:5, Sofrim60 stated that the first () occurrence of was divine, namely, denoted true God, whereas the second one () was non-divine, yet no further specification was provided.
Mediaeval Jewish Exegesis
The early Jewish reception of the plural forms in Genesis 1:26, 3:5 and 3:22 defined the parameters of the subsequent Jewish interpretation of these phenomena. Explanations found in the Targumim and in the Midrashic and Talmudic literature were denounced as Jewish by the early church fathers. Justin61 recapitulated and disapproved of several interpretations of the plural forms in Genesis 1:26, 3:22. These interpretations did not support the Christian trinitarian reading of such plural forms and were therefore rejected by Justin. Since Justin's account presented the mainstream Jewish positions circulating in the 2nd century accurately, it is relevant to the present research.62
Consequently, Justin could not accept that God would say "let us make [...]" to himself, while deliberating and getting down to work. The proposition, that God said "let us make [...]" to the angels, engaging them in the work of creation as his agents, was also rebutted by Justin who asserted that even the human body could not be produced by the angels. Actually, the idea that the angels, who were defined as God's proxies and who could also be conceptualised as λόγος, created the material world including human corporeality, would be acceptable to Philo and could be argued from his writings.63 Furthermore, Justin fended off the interpretation according to which God addressed classical elements (στοιχεία), such as earth, out of which the human body was created, when he said "let us make [...]". This interpretation implied that God referred to the basic material elements, which had already been created by him, and that God used them to fashion the corporeal dimension of human beings. Thus, Justin epitomised the fundamental Jewish interpretations which must have been circulating and widespread in his lifetime. In fact, his own distinctively Christian exposition rested on the Jewish tradition, though clearly contravening the tenets of Judaism. Justin exploited the concept of divine σοφία (as typified by the LXX version of Proverbs 3:19) with which God conversed in the act of creation and through which God created the universe, according to the Jewish tradition. Contrary to the Rabbinic consensus, Justin invested this divine σοφία with the independent ontological status and claimed that σοφία manifested itself in and through Jesus to such an extent that God's wisdom could be embodied in Jesus and identified with Jesus.
Saadia Gaon () expounded on Genesis 1:26-2764 as well as Genesis 3:5 and 3:22.65 In his opinion, the plural forms in Genesis 1:26 implied no plurality on the Creator's side but rather emphasised the majesty in a way which was typical of the Hebrew language. Thus, the plural in such expressions as "let us make" () or "let us work" () did not have to render the subject plural. To illustrate his point, Saadia referred to Numbers 22:6,66Judges 13:1567 and Daniel 2:3668 where in the direct speech the singular subject applied plural forms to itself very naturally.
Furthermore, Saadia avowed that humankind was created not by angels but rather by the LORD in his image which, for Saadia, did not indicate any corporeal resemblance between God and human beings. Rather, God created humankind in his image in the sense that he recognised and authenticated the dignity and significance of human beings as his creatures and declared them to be his most treasured possession. Consequently, by creating humankind in his image, God owned up to his perfect and beloved design. Saadia equated the image (referred to in Genesis 1:26-27) with the form or shape () and pointed out that although there were many different shapes in the world, God encompassed all of them. Therefore, when God acclaimed one of the shapes as his own, he acknowledged the unique and unprecedented status of this shape in his eyes. According to Saadia, humankind was the shape favoured by God as his image. In Genesis 3:5 Saadia interpreted in the phrase as angels69 and translated it as angels in his Arabic rendition of the Pentateuch.70 Besides, Saadia explicated God's statement in Genesis 3:22 as follows: "Behold, Adam has already been made like one of us [endowed] with the knowledge of good and evil".71
Rashi's () treatment of the plural forms in the aforementioned passages did not offer any coherent strategy of interpretation but rather relied on the Targumic and Midrashic solutions.72 Thus, on the one hand Rashi followed a mental shortcut according to which humankind was created in the image of angels, on the other hand, he affirmed that the image, in which human beings were made, was that of their Creator because God himself created humankind as alluded to in Psalm 139:5. In Rashi's opinion, God was so humble that he would regularly consult the heavenly court (more specifically, the angels) surrounding him as exemplified by 1 Kings 22:19 and Daniel 4:14/17. Rashi argued that God indeed consulted his heavenly court and therefore he said to his angels "let us make [...]", yet no one assisted God in the work of creation because the LORD alone created humankind. Furthermore, Rashi admitted that God's exemplary humility might be misperceived as if the superior (i.e. God) needed to win inferiors' (i.e. angels') approval or permission to take any action. Consequently, God addressed the angels by saying to them "let us make [...]" but God did not invite them to join him in the work of creation which in the light of Genesis 1:27a () was performed by God alone, not by multiple agents ().
Scriptura - Home Page
www.scielo.org.za
Trinitarian Christians maintain that Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 11:7 are proof-texts of an alleged tri-unity god, but this claim is erroneous. The inference that "Let us make man in our image" ((Genesis 1:26)) refers to the plurality of God is refuted by the subsequent verse, which relates the creation of man to a singular God, "And God created man in His image" ((Genesis 1:27)).
In this verse the Hebrew verb "created" appears in the singular form. If "let us make man" indicates a numerical plurality, it would be followed in the NEXT verse by, "And they created man in their image." Obviously, the plural form is used in the same way as in the divine appellation 'Elohim, to indicate the all-inclusiveness of God's attributes of authority and power, the plurality of majesty. It is customary for one in authority to speak of himself as if he were a plurality.
Hence, Absalom said to Ahithophel, "Give your counsel what we shall do" ((2 Samuel 16:20)). The context shows that he was seeking advice for himself' yet he refers to himself as "we" ((see also Ezra 4:16-19)).
God Manifesting His Humility
There is another possible reason for the use of the plural on the part of God, and that is to manifest His humility. God addresses Himself to the angels and says to them, "Let us make man in our image." It is not that He invites their help, but as a matter of modesty and courtesy, God associates them with the creation of man. This teaches us that a great man should act humbly and consult with those lower than him.
It is not unusual for God to refer to His heavenly court (angels) as "us," as we see in Isaiah 6:8, "And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, 'Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?'" Although God often acts without assistance, He makes His intentions known to His servants. Thus, we find "Shall I conceal from Abraham that which I am doing" ((Genesis 18:17)); "He made known His ways to Moses, His doings to the children of Israel" ((Psalms 103:7)); "For the Lord God will do nothing without revealing His counsel to His servants the prophets" ((Amos 3:7)).
A misconception similar to that concerning Genesis 1:27 is held by trinitarian Christians with reference to the verse, "Come, let us go down, and there confound their language" ((Genesis 11:7)). Here, too, the confounding of the language is related in verse 9 to God alone, ". . . because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth." In this verse the Hebrew verb "did" appears in the singular form.
The Singularity of God
Also, the descent is credited in verse 5 to the Lord alone, "And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower." In this verse the Hebrew verb "came down" appears in the singular form. If a doctrine of plurality of persons is to be based on the grammatical form of words, the frequent interchanging of the singular and the plural should vitiate such an attempt as being without foundation or merit. We may safely conclude that the Bible refutes most emphatically every opinion, which deviates from the concept of an indivisible unity of God.
Chapter 45 of Isaiah, using the Tetragrammaton, unequivocally asserts that the Lord alone is the creator and ruler of all things in the universe. The six uses of 'Elohim in this chapter ((verses 3, 5, 14, 15, 18, 21)) show that the term 'Elohim is synonymous with the Tetragrammaton, and that both epithets refer to the absolute one-and-only God. The singularity of God, expressed in the first-person singular in verse 12, clearly shows who is meant by the phrase, "Let us create man in our image": "I, even I, have made the earth, and created man upon it; I, even My hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded."
As for the Messiah, of him God says, "And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even My servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the Lord will be their God, and My servant David prince among them; I the Lord have spoken" ((Ezekiel 34:23-24)). The Lord alone will be worshiped as God, while the Messiah, as the servant of God, lives with the people. God and the Messiah are not and cannot be equals, for it is God alone who gives the Messiah power to rule in the capacity of His appointed servant.
When God said: "Let us make man in our image ?
God said "Let us make man in our image... " and "Come, let us go down, and there confound their language"To whom does the "us" refer? Is there a Judaism relationship with God?
jewsforjudaism.org
Thanks, your answer is not sufficient-not on this verse @TomL and you can try the Logos Bible Software-pure speculation.
J.
I strongly disagree as scripture shows,The plural forms occurring in Genesis 1:26; 3:5 and 3:22 were examined in the Babylonian Talmud. In the case of Genesis 1:26, the tractate Sanhedrin57 suggested that God said "let us make [...]" to his heavenly court, and it highlighted God's unity based on the fact that in Genesis 1:27 was the subject of the singular form of the verb (). Thus, in Genesis 1:26 God contemplated and announced his intention of creating human-kind in the presence of his angels, whereas Genesis 1:27 reported that God's action had been accomplished. Since God said "let us make [...]" to the angels, "our image", in which humankind was created according to Genesis 1:26, was interpreted as the image both of God and of his angels. Consequently, the image denoted the features which were shared both by God and by the angels.
The tractate Megillah58 and the minor tractate of the Babylonian Talmud called Sofrim59implied that in Genesis 1:26 (let us make) should be interpreted as if God was the sole Maker () [I will make]. In the case of Genesis 3:5, Sofrim60 stated that the first () occurrence of was divine, namely, denoted true God, whereas the second one () was non-divine, yet no further specification was provided.
Mediaeval Jewish Exegesis
The early Jewish reception of the plural forms in Genesis 1:26, 3:5 and 3:22 defined the parameters of the subsequent Jewish interpretation of these phenomena. Explanations found in the Targumim and in the Midrashic and Talmudic literature were denounced as Jewish by the early church fathers. Justin61 recapitulated and disapproved of several interpretations of the plural forms in Genesis 1:26, 3:22. These interpretations did not support the Christian trinitarian reading of such plural forms and were therefore rejected by Justin. Since Justin's account presented the mainstream Jewish positions circulating in the 2nd century accurately, it is relevant to the present research.62
Consequently, Justin could not accept that God would say "let us make [...]" to himself, while deliberating and getting down to work. The proposition, that God said "let us make [...]" to the angels, engaging them in the work of creation as his agents, was also rebutted by Justin who asserted that even the human body could not be produced by the angels. Actually, the idea that the angels, who were defined as God's proxies and who could also be conceptualised as λόγος, created the material world including human corporeality, would be acceptable to Philo and could be argued from his writings.63 Furthermore, Justin fended off the interpretation according to which God addressed classical elements (στοιχεία), such as earth, out of which the human body was created, when he said "let us make [...]". This interpretation implied that God referred to the basic material elements, which had already been created by him, and that God used them to fashion the corporeal dimension of human beings. Thus, Justin epitomised the fundamental Jewish interpretations which must have been circulating and widespread in his lifetime. In fact, his own distinctively Christian exposition rested on the Jewish tradition, though clearly contravening the tenets of Judaism. Justin exploited the concept of divine σοφία (as typified by the LXX version of Proverbs 3:19) with which God conversed in the act of creation and through which God created the universe, according to the Jewish tradition. Contrary to the Rabbinic consensus, Justin invested this divine σοφία with the independent ontological status and claimed that σοφία manifested itself in and through Jesus to such an extent that God's wisdom could be embodied in Jesus and identified with Jesus.
Saadia Gaon () expounded on Genesis 1:26-2764 as well as Genesis 3:5 and 3:22.65 In his opinion, the plural forms in Genesis 1:26 implied no plurality on the Creator's side but rather emphasised the majesty in a way which was typical of the Hebrew language. Thus, the plural in such expressions as "let us make" () or "let us work" () did not have to render the subject plural. To illustrate his point, Saadia referred to Numbers 22:6,66Judges 13:1567 and Daniel 2:3668 where in the direct speech the singular subject applied plural forms to itself very naturally.
Furthermore, Saadia avowed that humankind was created not by angels but rather by the LORD in his image which, for Saadia, did not indicate any corporeal resemblance between God and human beings. Rather, God created humankind in his image in the sense that he recognised and authenticated the dignity and significance of human beings as his creatures and declared them to be his most treasured possession. Consequently, by creating humankind in his image, God owned up to his perfect and beloved design. Saadia equated the image (referred to in Genesis 1:26-27) with the form or shape () and pointed out that although there were many different shapes in the world, God encompassed all of them. Therefore, when God acclaimed one of the shapes as his own, he acknowledged the unique and unprecedented status of this shape in his eyes. According to Saadia, humankind was the shape favoured by God as his image. In Genesis 3:5 Saadia interpreted in the phrase as angels69 and translated it as angels in his Arabic rendition of the Pentateuch.70 Besides, Saadia explicated God's statement in Genesis 3:22 as follows: "Behold, Adam has already been made like one of us [endowed] with the knowledge of good and evil".71
Rashi's () treatment of the plural forms in the aforementioned passages did not offer any coherent strategy of interpretation but rather relied on the Targumic and Midrashic solutions.72 Thus, on the one hand Rashi followed a mental shortcut according to which humankind was created in the image of angels, on the other hand, he affirmed that the image, in which human beings were made, was that of their Creator because God himself created humankind as alluded to in Psalm 139:5. In Rashi's opinion, God was so humble that he would regularly consult the heavenly court (more specifically, the angels) surrounding him as exemplified by 1 Kings 22:19 and Daniel 4:14/17. Rashi argued that God indeed consulted his heavenly court and therefore he said to his angels "let us make [...]", yet no one assisted God in the work of creation because the LORD alone created humankind. Furthermore, Rashi admitted that God's exemplary humility might be misperceived as if the superior (i.e. God) needed to win inferiors' (i.e. angels') approval or permission to take any action. Consequently, God addressed the angels by saying to them "let us make [...]" but God did not invite them to join him in the work of creation which in the light of Genesis 1:27a () was performed by God alone, not by multiple agents ().
Here Is The Answer To That QuestionScriptura - Home Page
www.scielo.org.za
Trinitarian Christians maintain that Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 11:7 are proof-texts of an alleged tri-unity god, but this claim is erroneous. The inference that "Let us make man in our image" ((Genesis 1:26)) refers to the plurality of God is refuted by the subsequent verse, which relates the creation of man to a singular God, "And God created man in His image" ((Genesis 1:27)).
In this verse the Hebrew verb "created" appears in the singular form. If "let us make man" indicates a numerical plurality, it would be followed in the NEXT verse by, "And they created man in their image." Obviously, the plural form is used in the same way as in the divine appellation 'Elohim, to indicate the all-inclusiveness of God's attributes of authority and power, the plurality of majesty. It is customary for one in authority to speak of himself as if he were a plurality.
Hence, Absalom said to Ahithophel, "Give your counsel what we shall do" ((2 Samuel 16:20)). The context shows that he was seeking advice for himself' yet he refers to himself as "we" ((see also Ezra 4:16-19)).
God Manifesting His Humility
There is another possible reason for the use of the plural on the part of God, and that is to manifest His humility. God addresses Himself to the angels and says to them, "Let us make man in our image." It is not that He invites their help, but as a matter of modesty and courtesy, God associates them with the creation of man. This teaches us that a great man should act humbly and consult with those lower than him.
It is not unusual for God to refer to His heavenly court (angels) as "us," as we see in Isaiah 6:8, "And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, 'Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?'" Although God often acts without assistance, He makes His intentions known to His servants. Thus, we find "Shall I conceal from Abraham that which I am doing" ((Genesis 18:17)); "He made known His ways to Moses, His doings to the children of Israel" ((Psalms 103:7)); "For the Lord God will do nothing without revealing His counsel to His servants the prophets" ((Amos 3:7)).
A misconception similar to that concerning Genesis 1:27 is held by trinitarian Christians with reference to the verse, "Come, let us go down, and there confound their language" ((Genesis 11:7)). Here, too, the confounding of the language is related in verse 9 to God alone, ". . . because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth." In this verse the Hebrew verb "did" appears in the singular form.
The Singularity of God
Also, the descent is credited in verse 5 to the Lord alone, "And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower." In this verse the Hebrew verb "came down" appears in the singular form. If a doctrine of plurality of persons is to be based on the grammatical form of words, the frequent interchanging of the singular and the plural should vitiate such an attempt as being without foundation or merit. We may safely conclude that the Bible refutes most emphatically every opinion, which deviates from the concept of an indivisible unity of God.
Chapter 45 of Isaiah, using the Tetragrammaton, unequivocally asserts that the Lord alone is the creator and ruler of all things in the universe. The six uses of 'Elohim in this chapter ((verses 3, 5, 14, 15, 18, 21)) show that the term 'Elohim is synonymous with the Tetragrammaton, and that both epithets refer to the absolute one-and-only God. The singularity of God, expressed in the first-person singular in verse 12, clearly shows who is meant by the phrase, "Let us create man in our image": "I, even I, have made the earth, and created man upon it; I, even My hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded."
As for the Messiah, of him God says, "And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even My servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the Lord will be their God, and My servant David prince among them; I the Lord have spoken" ((Ezekiel 34:23-24)). The Lord alone will be worshiped as God, while the Messiah, as the servant of God, lives with the people. God and the Messiah are not and cannot be equals, for it is God alone who gives the Messiah power to rule in the capacity of His appointed servant.
When God said: "Let us make man in our image ?
God said "Let us make man in our image... " and "Come, let us go down, and there confound their language"To whom does the "us" refer? Is there a Judaism relationship with God?
Thanks, your answer is not sufficient-not on this verse @TomL and you can try the Logos Bible Software-pure speculation.
J.
John 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.
Col. 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Heb. 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
Heb. 1:10 And,
“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;
Eph. 3:9 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things,
1Cor. 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Job 33:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 The Spirit of God hath made me, And the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
Genesis 1:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Isaiah 44:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, And he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; That stretcheth forth the heavens alone; That spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Nehemiah 9:6–15 (LEB) — 6 “You alone are Yahweh. You alone have made the heavens, the heavens of the heavens, and all of their army, the earth and all that is in it, the waters and all that is in them
The bible interprets the bible
Last edited:
Johann
Well-known member
I do too-show me who is the US in Genesis in this particular verse. The verses you have shared I have no problem with @TomL.
sn The plural form of the verb has been the subject of much discussion through the years, and not surprisingly several suggestions have been put forward. Many Christian theologians interpret it as an early hint of plurality within the Godhead, but this view imposes later trinitarian concepts on the ancient text. Some have suggested the plural verb indicates majesty, but the plural of majesty is not used with verbs. C. Westermann (Genesis, 1:145) argues for a plural of “deliberation” here, but his proposed examples of this use (2 Sam 24:14; Isa 6:8) do not actually support his theory. In 2 Sam 24:14 David uses the plural as representative of all Israel, and in Isa 6:8 the Lord speaks on behalf of his heavenly court. In its ancient Israelite context the plural is most naturally understood as referring to God and his heavenly court (see 1 Kgs 22:19-22; Job 1:6-12; 2:1-6; Isa 6:1-8). (The most well-known members of this court are God’s messengers, or angels. In Gen 3:5 the serpent may refer to this group as “gods/divine beings.” See the note on the word “evil” in 3:5.) If this is the case, God invites the heavenly court to participate at the creation of humankind (perhaps in the role of offering praise, see Job 38:7), but he himself is the one who does the actual creative work (v. 27). Of course, this view does assume that the members of the heavenly court possess the divine “image” in some way. Since the image is closely associated with rulership, perhaps they share the divine image in that they, together with God and under his royal authority, are the executive authority over the world.
Genesis 1
“For indeed the day is coming, burning like a furnace, and all the arrogant evildoers will be chaff. The coming day will burn them up,” says the Lord who rules over all. “It will not leave even a root or branch. But for you who respect my name, the sun of vindication will rise with healing...
netbible.org
The Greek verb ποιήσομεν (poiēsomen) is the first person plural future active indicative form of the verb ποιέω (to make or to do).
This verb form translates to "we will make," which carries the implication of a collective action or decision.
The phrase "let us" is not explicitly stated in the Greek but is understood through the plural verb form.
That's all we have in the LXX and Tanack.
We read the Scriptures with an Eastern lens-not West.
Pretty sure @praise_yeshua will agree here.
J.
Runningman
Well-known member
They were equal in status to Jesus, but Jesus and the others are less than God. Now when I say God Almighty, I am not referring to a three person Trinity. I am referring to one person you also call the Father.
101G
Well-known member
101G read your reply, only one point is very correct which is what people need to understand, "Chapter 45 of Isaiah, using the Tetragrammaton, unequivocally asserts that the Lord alone is the creator and ruler of all things in the universe".The plural forms occurring in Genesis 1:26; 3:5 and 3:22 were examined in the Babylonian Talmud. In the case of Genesis 1:26, the tractate Sanhedrin57 suggested that God said "let us make [...]" to his heavenly court, and it highlighted God's unity based on the fact that in Genesis 1:27 was the subject of the singular form of the verb (). Thus, in Genesis 1:26 God contemplated and announced his intention of creating human-kind in the presence of his angels, whereas Genesis 1:27 reported that God's action had been accomplished. Since God said "let us make [...]" to the angels, "our image", in which humankind was created according to Genesis 1:26, was interpreted as the image both of God and of his angels. Consequently, the image denoted the features which were shared both by God and by the angels.
The tractate Megillah58 and the minor tractate of the Babylonian Talmud called Sofrim59implied that in Genesis 1:26 (let us make) should be interpreted as if God was the sole Maker () [I will make]. In the case of Genesis 3:5, Sofrim60 stated that the first () occurrence of was divine, namely, denoted true God, whereas the second one () was non-divine, yet no further specification was provided.
Mediaeval Jewish Exegesis
The early Jewish reception of the plural forms in Genesis 1:26, 3:5 and 3:22 defined the parameters of the subsequent Jewish interpretation of these phenomena. Explanations found in the Targumim and in the Midrashic and Talmudic literature were denounced as Jewish by the early church fathers. Justin61 recapitulated and disapproved of several interpretations of the plural forms in Genesis 1:26, 3:22. These interpretations did not support the Christian trinitarian reading of such plural forms and were therefore rejected by Justin. Since Justin's account presented the mainstream Jewish positions circulating in the 2nd century accurately, it is relevant to the present research.62
Consequently, Justin could not accept that God would say "let us make [...]" to himself, while deliberating and getting down to work. The proposition, that God said "let us make [...]" to the angels, engaging them in the work of creation as his agents, was also rebutted by Justin who asserted that even the human body could not be produced by the angels. Actually, the idea that the angels, who were defined as God's proxies and who could also be conceptualised as λόγος, created the material world including human corporeality, would be acceptable to Philo and could be argued from his writings.63 Furthermore, Justin fended off the interpretation according to which God addressed classical elements (στοιχεία), such as earth, out of which the human body was created, when he said "let us make [...]". This interpretation implied that God referred to the basic material elements, which had already been created by him, and that God used them to fashion the corporeal dimension of human beings. Thus, Justin epitomised the fundamental Jewish interpretations which must have been circulating and widespread in his lifetime. In fact, his own distinctively Christian exposition rested on the Jewish tradition, though clearly contravening the tenets of Judaism. Justin exploited the concept of divine σοφία (as typified by the LXX version of Proverbs 3:19) with which God conversed in the act of creation and through which God created the universe, according to the Jewish tradition. Contrary to the Rabbinic consensus, Justin invested this divine σοφία with the independent ontological status and claimed that σοφία manifested itself in and through Jesus to such an extent that God's wisdom could be embodied in Jesus and identified with Jesus.
Saadia Gaon () expounded on Genesis 1:26-2764 as well as Genesis 3:5 and 3:22.65 In his opinion, the plural forms in Genesis 1:26 implied no plurality on the Creator's side but rather emphasised the majesty in a way which was typical of the Hebrew language. Thus, the plural in such expressions as "let us make" () or "let us work" () did not have to render the subject plural. To illustrate his point, Saadia referred to Numbers 22:6,66Judges 13:1567 and Daniel 2:3668 where in the direct speech the singular subject applied plural forms to itself very naturally.
Furthermore, Saadia avowed that humankind was created not by angels but rather by the LORD in his image which, for Saadia, did not indicate any corporeal resemblance between God and human beings. Rather, God created humankind in his image in the sense that he recognised and authenticated the dignity and significance of human beings as his creatures and declared them to be his most treasured possession. Consequently, by creating humankind in his image, God owned up to his perfect and beloved design. Saadia equated the image (referred to in Genesis 1:26-27) with the form or shape () and pointed out that although there were many different shapes in the world, God encompassed all of them. Therefore, when God acclaimed one of the shapes as his own, he acknowledged the unique and unprecedented status of this shape in his eyes. According to Saadia, humankind was the shape favoured by God as his image. In Genesis 3:5 Saadia interpreted in the phrase as angels69 and translated it as angels in his Arabic rendition of the Pentateuch.70 Besides, Saadia explicated God's statement in Genesis 3:22 as follows: "Behold, Adam has already been made like one of us [endowed] with the knowledge of good and evil".71
Rashi's () treatment of the plural forms in the aforementioned passages did not offer any coherent strategy of interpretation but rather relied on the Targumic and Midrashic solutions.72 Thus, on the one hand Rashi followed a mental shortcut according to which humankind was created in the image of angels, on the other hand, he affirmed that the image, in which human beings were made, was that of their Creator because God himself created humankind as alluded to in Psalm 139:5. In Rashi's opinion, God was so humble that he would regularly consult the heavenly court (more specifically, the angels) surrounding him as exemplified by 1 Kings 22:19 and Daniel 4:14/17. Rashi argued that God indeed consulted his heavenly court and therefore he said to his angels "let us make [...]", yet no one assisted God in the work of creation because the LORD alone created humankind. Furthermore, Rashi admitted that God's exemplary humility might be misperceived as if the superior (i.e. God) needed to win inferiors' (i.e. angels') approval or permission to take any action. Consequently, God addressed the angels by saying to them "let us make [...]" but God did not invite them to join him in the work of creation which in the light of Genesis 1:27a () was performed by God alone, not by multiple agents ().
Here Is The Answer To That QuestionScriptura - Home Page
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Trinitarian Christians maintain that Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 11:7 are proof-texts of an alleged tri-unity god, but this claim is erroneous. The inference that "Let us make man in our image" ((Genesis 1:26)) refers to the plurality of God is refuted by the subsequent verse, which relates the creation of man to a singular God, "And God created man in His image" ((Genesis 1:27)).
In this verse the Hebrew verb "created" appears in the singular form. If "let us make man" indicates a numerical plurality, it would be followed in the NEXT verse by, "And they created man in their image." Obviously, the plural form is used in the same way as in the divine appellation 'Elohim, to indicate the all-inclusiveness of God's attributes of authority and power, the plurality of majesty. It is customary for one in authority to speak of himself as if he were a plurality.
Hence, Absalom said to Ahithophel, "Give your counsel what we shall do" ((2 Samuel 16:20)). The context shows that he was seeking advice for himself' yet he refers to himself as "we" ((see also Ezra 4:16-19)).
God Manifesting His Humility
There is another possible reason for the use of the plural on the part of God, and that is to manifest His humility. God addresses Himself to the angels and says to them, "Let us make man in our image." It is not that He invites their help, but as a matter of modesty and courtesy, God associates them with the creation of man. This teaches us that a great man should act humbly and consult with those lower than him.
It is not unusual for God to refer to His heavenly court (angels) as "us," as we see in Isaiah 6:8, "And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, 'Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?'" Although God often acts without assistance, He makes His intentions known to His servants. Thus, we find "Shall I conceal from Abraham that which I am doing" ((Genesis 18:17)); "He made known His ways to Moses, His doings to the children of Israel" ((Psalms 103:7)); "For the Lord God will do nothing without revealing His counsel to His servants the prophets" ((Amos 3:7)).
A misconception similar to that concerning Genesis 1:27 is held by trinitarian Christians with reference to the verse, "Come, let us go down, and there confound their language" ((Genesis 11:7)). Here, too, the confounding of the language is related in verse 9 to God alone, ". . . because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth." In this verse the Hebrew verb "did" appears in the singular form.
The Singularity of God
Also, the descent is credited in verse 5 to the Lord alone, "And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower." In this verse the Hebrew verb "came down" appears in the singular form. If a doctrine of plurality of persons is to be based on the grammatical form of words, the frequent interchanging of the singular and the plural should vitiate such an attempt as being without foundation or merit. We may safely conclude that the Bible refutes most emphatically every opinion, which deviates from the concept of an indivisible unity of God.
Chapter 45 of Isaiah, using the Tetragrammaton, unequivocally asserts that the Lord alone is the creator and ruler of all things in the universe. The six uses of 'Elohim in this chapter ((verses 3, 5, 14, 15, 18, 21)) show that the term 'Elohim is synonymous with the Tetragrammaton, and that both epithets refer to the absolute one-and-only God. The singularity of God, expressed in the first-person singular in verse 12, clearly shows who is meant by the phrase, "Let us create man in our image": "I, even I, have made the earth, and created man upon it; I, even My hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded."
As for the Messiah, of him God says, "And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even My servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the Lord will be their God, and My servant David prince among them; I the Lord have spoken" ((Ezekiel 34:23-24)). The Lord alone will be worshiped as God, while the Messiah, as the servant of God, lives with the people. God and the Messiah are not and cannot be equals, for it is God alone who gives the Messiah power to rule in the capacity of His appointed servant.
When God said: "Let us make man in our image ?
God said "Let us make man in our image... " and "Come, let us go down, and there confound their language"To whom does the "us" refer? Is there a Judaism relationship with God?
Thanks, your answer is not sufficient-not on this verse @TomL and you can try the Logos Bible Software-pure speculation.
J.
yes the Lord "ALONE" which is the TRUTH throughout the bible. example. Hebrews 1:10 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:" clearly the Lord laid the foundation of the earth, CORRECT, well let's see. Zechariah 12:1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him."
Either the Lord is the LORD, (THE SAME ONE PERSON, else one has two God that LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH.
there is no extra hurdles to jump. either this is the same one PERSON or as said one has two Gods, which is polytheism by definition.
the scriptures are self explanatory, just read them with the Holy Spirit.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
is not the Lord, Jesus? did he JESUS, the "Lord" lay the foundation of the earth? yes or no.
101G.
HAHA
You have completely lost it
Jesus is the mighty God who is above all
you think he is the equal of human judges
Psalm 82:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 I have said, Ye are gods; And all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.
Waylon
New member
Perhaps as an act of obedience to God, or as foreshadowing of His sacrificial death, Jesus asks John the Baptist to baptize Him in the Jordan River (Matthew 3:13–16). In the moment that Jesus resurfaces, He sees the heavens open and the Holy Spirit descend "like a dove," to rest on Him in a bodily form (Luke 3:22).
It is unclear if only Jesus and possibly John the Baptist saw the action in the heavens and the arrival of the dove-like Holy Spirit (John 1:32). It seems clearer that all who were present at Jesus' baptism heard the voice of God, however. Matthew quotes God's voice as saying, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."
All three members of the Trinity are involved in this moment. God the Son, in human form, is joined by God the Holy Spirit in dove-like form, while the voice of God the Father calls down from heaven. This is one of the most potent examples of the mystery of the Trinity in the Bible.
What God says in this moment makes the claim of the Bible crystal clear: Jesus is the Son of God. This firmly confirmed to all who heard it that Jesus is the Messiah, sent by God to fulfill the prophecies and begin to establish His kingdom on earth.
The tenderness of God the Father toward Jesus reveals His character. He describes Jesus as beloved and says that He is well pleased with Him. God's love, even for His own Son, is central to who He is. It also adds heartbreak to the sacrifice God is making in offering the life of Jesus for the sins of humanity. BibleRef
That one verse is not the only verse in the bible
and as stated scripture interprets scripture
According to scripture, only God creates
From scripture, we know the word and the Spirit created
It's not an eastern or western lens that is needed but a biblical one
101G
Well-known member
this was his Anointing by his Spirit. to PREACH the Gospel.
ERROR, the bible never said that it was God voice from heaven speaking. this is why so many mistakes, errors, and by some lies get started on assumptions.
Anither ERROR in assumption.
yes he is the Son of God the Messiah, meaning he is God SHARED in FLESH as a Man, the ECHAD of the Spirit. this is bore out in Isaiah 63:5 ... the ARM of God.
101G.
Johann
Well-known member
Good to know you can't respond to what's been shown to you-definitely an Eastern biblical lens. I’ve yet to see an apologist who can stand in a debate against an Imam or an Orthodox or Ultra-orthodox Jewish rabbi.
Late here 12.07 AM.
@praise_yeshua took up all my time.
J.
Sure heaven is just full of creatures who imagine Jesus is their son
what will you do with this
2 Peter 1:17–18 (KJV 1900) — 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
Get a better argument
Johann
Well-known member
Absolutely-have you actually watched the debates online?
Favorite past the time for me.
J.
Saw Sam Shamoun make mincemeat out of a few
Yes unbelief. But its hard to believe when 99 percent claiming to follow Jesus don't even know what he actually taught. Thus its impossible for those to obey.
Johann
Well-known member
Its sad really. They refuse to believe Jesus. He is 100% clear at John 17:3 that the one who sent him( Father) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD. The Father = the only one named God by Paul at 1 Cor 8:6 as well.
