It's Impossible to Believe in Christ Without Believing the Trinity

[Runningman]

GINOLJC, to all
yes, in context.

see above... (smile)

This is a bigger problem than bad theology on your part, you also have poor reading comprehension. Let's try another example. You will basically just make the Bible say anything you want by manipulating the rules to your will.

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God." John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
THE SAME? yes, the SAME "WORD" was GOD. ........ context, context, Context.

Now, can you please answer my original question ...... please. is the WORD here in John 1:1-3 who is the SAME, GOD. is this the same one person in Isaiah 44:24 who is God that "MADE ALL THINGS?" yes or no...... your answer please.

101G.

The Word isn't identified as The God in John 1:1. There are two distinct usages of God in this verses Ton Theon (which means The God) and (theos) where the Word is not "The God." Also, this translation contradicts Scripture. The Bible says the Father is the only true God. It would probably be better to make the Word a lowercase g god or translate it in such a way so as to make the word something godly because 1 John 1:1-3 calls the Word a thing. The Word is just eternal life. When you know that much, you will understand the rest better.

 

[Runningman]

You have become the one verse unitarian. That is what I call the wrong angle. Even Eph 4:4-6 includes Jesus as Lord and the Spirit. So you include the Trinune God in that passage.

I'll take the title "one verse Unitarian" over "zero verse trinitarian" any day.

 

[Runningman]

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He (the Word) was in the beginning with God.

3; All things came into being through Him, ( the Word) and apart from Him (the word) nothing came into being that has come into being.

Even the JW NWT gives the Word a place in creation. might be a different view calling him a little god (small g) but is there, none the less.
Naming at least 2 in the creation of things.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

2 This one was in the beginning with God.

3. All things came into existence through him, ( this Word) and apart from him ( this Word) not even one thing came into existence.

4. What has come into existence by means of him ( this Word) was life, and the life was the light of men.*

So even the JW say this little god created life.... proving even they know at least 2 were there in the beginning. Yahweh and this little god.

Proof enough that the WORD was the creator.

Please show us from anywhere in the Old Testament where the Word is actually a pre-existent being saying anything, doing anything, or creating. If you can do that, I will try to work with your interpretation.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Please show us from anywhere in the Old Testament where the Word is actually a pre-existent being saying anything, doing anything, or creating. If you can do that, I will try to work with your interpretation.

Wisdom is referred to as if it were a person in Proverbs 8:22-31 (see below). Wisdom is equivalent of Logos in John 1.
Wisdom has always been with God, and it is an attribute intrinsic to God.
However, no Jew ever thought that "Wisdom" was a divine person apart from YHWH.

Poetic passages are to be interpreted as such. That's the case of the first verses of John 1.

The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
When there were no watery depths, I was given birth, when there were no springs overflowing with water;
before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,
before he made the world or its fields or any of the dust of the earth.
I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Then I was constantly at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,
rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind."

 

[101G]

Wisdom is referred to as if it were a person in Proverbs 8:22-31 (see below). Wisdom is equivalent of Logos in John 1.
Wisdom has always been with God, and it is an attribute intrinsic to God.
However, no Jew ever thought that "Wisdom" was a divine person apart from YHWH.

Poetic passages are to be interpreted as such. That's the case of the first verses of John 1.

The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
When there were no watery depths, I was given birth, when there were no springs overflowing with water;
before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,
before he made the world or its fields or any of the dust of the earth.
I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Then I was constantly at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,
rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind."

(smile), Wisdom is God "CREATING" ... ALL THINGS. is not the LIGHT in Genesis 1:3 is the Spirit that created all things?

we suggest you learn who is the LIGHT in Genesis 1:3...... (smile).

In much G.L.

101G.

P.S. Yes, Jesus is the LIGHT who is the Spirit that "MADE ALL THINGS"

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

(smile), Wisdom is God "CREATING" ... ALL THINGS. is not the LIGHT in Genesis 1:3 is the Spirit that created all things?

we suggest you learn who is the LIGHT in Genesis 1:3...... (smile).

In much G.L.

101G.

P.S. Yes, Jesus is the LIGHT who is the Spirit that "MADE ALL THINGS"

I see your point and my perspective is very close to yours.
Yes, Wisdom is God in action, creating all things. The Word of John 1:1 is God in action, creating all things. The Holy Spirit is God in action, transforming our life. The Light is God in action, illuminating our minds. Love is God in action, moving our lives.

In the end it is just a matter of how literal or metaphorical we want to interpret the wording in those passages.
In the end, I can poetically say God is Wisdom, God is Life, God is Light, God is Love, God is Word, God is The Spirit.

 

[101G]

I see your point and my perspective is very close to yours.
Yes, Wisdom is God in action, creating all things. The Word of John 1:1 is God in action, creating all things. The Holy Spirit is God in action, transforming our life. The Light is God in action, illuminating our minds. Love is God in action, moving our lives.

In the end it is just a matter of how literal or metaphorical we want to interpret the wording in those passages.
In the end, I can poetically say God is Wisdom, God is Life, God is Light, God is Love, God is Word, God is The Spirit.

let's do that, first, 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God."
KNOWING THAT, let's examine the scriptures at Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Genesis 1:3 "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."

Genesis 1:4 "And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness."

Genesis 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

Let's look at this "Light" here in verses 3 & 4 this is not NATURAL LIGHT, but a PERSON as said. according to the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionary,
H216 אוֹר 'owr (ore) n-f.
1. illumination.
2. (concretely) luminary (in every sense, including lightning, happiness, etc.).
[from H215]
KJV: bright, clear, + day, light (-ning), morning, sun.
Root(s): H215

see definition #2. ....... and "happiness," there. now scripture, Proverbs 8:22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." Proverbs 8:23 "I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was."Proverbs 8:24 "When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water." Proverbs 8:25 "Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:" Proverbs 8:26 "While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world." Proverbs 8:27 "When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:" Proverbs 8:28 "When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:" Proverbs 8:29 "When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:" Proverbs 8:30 "Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;" Proverbs 8:31 "Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men."

those word, "delight" and "Rejoicing " guess what they are synonyms with? that's right "Happiness" the same word happiness found in the definition of LIGHT in Genesis 1:3 & 4. H216 אוֹר 'owr (ore) n-f. Notice #2.
1. illumination.
2. (concretely) luminary (in every sense, including lightning, happiness, etc.).
[from H215]
KJV: bright, clear, + day, light (-ning), morning, sun.

one more, in Proverbs 8:31 "Rejoicing", another word for it..... that's right "happiness" so without a doubt, the LIGHT in verses 4 and 5 is not natural sunlight, or physical, light but the LIGHT in verses 3 & 4 is WISDOM, (WHO), meaning GOD, the LORD JESUS. who made all things by, by, by, HIMSELF, just as Isaiah 44:24 clearly states. he was "ALONE", and "BY, BY, BY HIMSELF. Jesus, the wisdom and the POWER of God who is the Light of the world. (Knowledge and understanding), LISTEN TO SCRIPTURE, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God." John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." John 1:4 "In him was life; and the life was the light of men." John 1:5 "And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." this is why he, JESUS, God, separate the Light/TRUTH, Knowledge and understanding from IGNORANCE/Darkness without Understanding.

so, the LIGHT, in Genesis 1 is NOT a "WHAT", but a "WHO", and this Who is personified in Proverb 8, and showed up in flesh in time at John 1:1. good spot on your part.

My sources for this Revelation is, The Holy Spirit, as teacher.

101G.