It's Impossible to Believe in Christ Without Believing the Trinity

[Muckah]

The Bible teaches the Trinty. It took me many years to see it and believe it. The flowing verses changed to mind.

20 But as he was thinking this over, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, Joseph, descendant of David, do not be afraid to take Mary [as] your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of (from, out of) the Holy Spirit.
Mt 1:20.

19 Go then and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mt 28:19.


14 And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled (fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us; and we [actually] saw His glory (His honor, His majesty), such glory as an only begotten son receives from his father, full of grace (favor, loving-kindness) and truth.
Jn 1:14.

4 When you read this you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ
Eph 3:4.

2 [For my concern is] that their hearts may be braced (comforted, cheered, and encouraged) as they are knit together in love, that they may come to have all the abounding wealth and blessings of assured conviction of understanding, and that they may become progressively more intimately acquainted with and may know more definitely and accurately and thoroughly that mystic secret of God, [which is] Christ (the Anointed One).
3 In Him all the treasures of [divine] wisdom (comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God) and [all the riches of spiritual] knowledge and enlightenment are stored up and lie hidden.
Col 2:2–3.

14 Since, therefore, [these His] children share in flesh and blood [in the physical nature of human beings], He [Himself] in a similar manner partook of the same [nature], that by [going through] death He might bring to nought and make of no effect him who had the power of death—that is, the devil
Heb 2:14.

It is impossible to believe explicitly in the mystery of Christ without faith in the Trinity, since the mystery of Christ includes that the Son of God took flesh; that He renewed the world through the grace of the Holy Ghost; and again, that He was conceived by the Holy Ghost.… And consequently, when once grace had been revealed, all were bound to explicit faith in the mystery of the Trinity

When we become a Christian, part of the grace of God toward us is the gift of the Holy Spirit. When we receive Christ, we receive the Holy Spirit as well. The Holy Spirit acts like an automatic “sin alarm” system. The things we used to do before we were saved that didn’t bother us at all … now an alarm goes off in us when we even consider doing them. That is the Holy Spirit tweaking us to remind us that we are about to sin against the holiness of God.
When Paul says the Spirit has “poured” the love of God into our hearts, he uses a term that suggests such an abundance that there is not sufficient room to contain it. We don’t just have a little of the love of God by the Spirit, we have love that is overflowing! This, I believe, is the overflow that every new Christian experiences when they first come to know Christ and know the Spirit’s presence.

 

[360watt]

What happens often, is rather than go deeply into a passage of Scripture, many will skim over the surface or isolate passages from their surrounds.

So with Jesus saying 'the Father is greater than I'

Its often assumed 'greater ' means 'superior'...therefore Jesus is either not God..or a lesser god.

What gets left out, is that He is about to ascend to equal position as the Father.

The difference is temporary. Jesus is not lesser.

Same goes with Jesus being in subjection to the Father.

This isnt superiority, but almost like the mind governing the body.

Its not about inequality, superiority.

Jesus is co-equal, co-eternal with the Father and Holy Spirit. ..together, One being...God.

 

[dwight92070]

Here are some fascinating verses that relate to this:

John 15:26 "When the helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH WHO PROCEEDS FROM THE FATHER, He will testify about Me, ..."
John 8:42 "Jesus said to them, 'If God were your Father, you would love Me, FOR I PROCEEDED FORTH AND HAVE COME FROM GOD, ...' "
John 16:27-28 "... for the Father Himself loves you, because you have love Me and have believed THAT I CAME FORTH FROM THE FATHER. I CAME FORTH FROM THE FATHER AND HAVE COME INTO THE WORLD;
John 17:7-8 "Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them AND TRULY UNDERSTOOD THAT I CAME FORTH FROM YOU, AND THEY BELIEVED THAT YOU SENT ME."

"WHO PROCEEDS FROM THE FATHER"
"FOR I PROCEEDED FORTH AND HAVE COME FROM GOD"
"I CAME FORTH FROM THE FATHER"
"I CAME FORTH FROM THE FATHER AND HAVE COME INTO THE WORLD"
"THEY ... TRULY UNDERSTOOD THAT I CAME FORTH FROM YOU, AND THEY BELIEVED THAT YOU SENT ME."

The fact that Jesus proceeded forth from God or the Father is a separate idea than Him coming from God. It's two different things:

First He proceeded forth from God, then He came from God.
First He came forth from the Father, then He came into the world.
First He came forth from God, then God sent Him.

In other words He emerged out of the very essence of God - and THEN God sent Him. He was and is the very same "stuff" as God was and is -even as the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, even so Jesus proceeded forth from God.

 

[101G]

The Bible teaches the Trinty. It took me many years to see it and believe it. The flowing verses changed to mind.

20 But as he was thinking this over, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, Joseph, descendant of David, do not be afraid to take Mary [as] your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of (from, out of) the Holy Spirit.
Mt 1:20.

Greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus. just looking at this first verse you gave, if the Holy Spirit conceived the body of flesh bone and blood in Mary, is not the conceiver of any child, is the actual "Father?" yes or no.

101G.

 

[101G]

John 15:26 "When the helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH WHO PROCEEDS FROM THE FATHER, He will testify about Me, ..."

who actual sent the Comforter, and it will answer who sent the Son. scripture, John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
WAS IT THE FATHER WHO SENT THE H/S OR THE SON, WHICH ONE?

101G.

 

[101G]

What happens often, is rather than go deeply into a passage of Scripture, many will skim over the surface or isolate passages from their surrounds.

So with Jesus saying 'the Father is greater than I'

Its often assumed 'greater ' means 'superior'...therefore Jesus is either not God..or a lesser god.

What gets left out, is that He is about to ascend to equal position as the Father.

The difference is temporary. Jesus is not lesser.

Same goes with Jesus being in subjection to the Father.

This isnt superiority, but almost like the mind governing the body.

Its not about inequality, superiority.

Jesus is co-equal, co-eternal with the Father and Holy Spirit. ..together, One being...God.

if what you said is true. please tell us is this the same one "GOD" or not. speaking of the SON, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." now the "FATHER". Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
101G's simple question, "is these two separate and distinct persons who made all things?" is this two separate and distinct creators? your answer please.

101G.

P.S. as for "Jesus saying 'the Father is greater than I", is that in quantity or quality?

 

[360watt]

if what you said is true. please tell us is this the same one "GOD" or not. speaking of the SON, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." now the "FATHER". Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
101G's simple question, "is these two separate and distinct persons who made all things?" is this two separate and distinct creators? your answer please.

101G.

P.S. as for "Jesus saying 'the Father is greater than I", is that in quantity or quality?

To the passage itself..the greater is just positional. Thats what happens in the passage..He ascends to be one with the Father.

There is no difference in power and diety. Jesus is not another being..but one God with the Father and Holy Spirit.

Kind of like the mind communicating with the body. Not exactly..but similar

 

[360watt]

who actual sent the Comforter, and it will answer who sent the Son. scripture, John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
WAS IT THE FATHER WHO SENT THE H/S OR THE SON, WHICH ONE?

101G.

Jesus also sends the Holy Spirit

 

[101G]

To the passage itself..the greater is just positional. Thats what happens in the passage..He ascends to be one with the Father.

There is no difference in power and diety. Jesus is not another being..but one God with the Father and Holy Spirit.

Kind of like the mind communicating with the body. Not exactly..but similar

the PERSON is the same. he only made himself G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') 1. to make empty. while in flesh as the ECHAD of himself.

101G.

 

[101G]

Jesus also sends the Holy Spirit

the Lord Jesus said "I" will send. and no one else. but.....is not the Lord Jesus the Holy Spirit, (HIMSELF), Uh O, ...... that came twice? once in NATURAL FLESH as a baby, per Luke 2:25 "And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him." 101G suggest you look up that term "consolation", and on Pentecost, Acts chapter 2. Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place." Acts 2:2 "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting." Acts 2:3 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them." Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

did you understand John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."
so 360 when did the Lord Jesus come to them. Notice he said, "I will not leave you comfortless" ...... "I will come to you" and he did come to them .... on Pentecost. now to back that up, Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." and did not the KINGDOM COME on Pentecost? for the Kingdom of God is the HOLY GHOST. Romans 14:17 "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost." and some stand then would see this coming.

101G.

 

[David Koberstein]

The Bible teaches the Trinty. It took me many years to see it and believe it. The flowing verses changed to mind.

20 But as he was thinking this over, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, Joseph, descendant of David, do not be afraid to take Mary [as] your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of (from, out of) the Holy Spirit.
Mt 1:20.

19 Go then and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mt 28:19.


14 And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled (fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us; and we [actually] saw His glory (His honor, His majesty), such glory as an only begotten son receives from his father, full of grace (favor, loving-kindness) and truth.
Jn 1:14.

4 When you read this you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ
Eph 3:4.

2 [For my concern is] that their hearts may be braced (comforted, cheered, and encouraged) as they are knit together in love, that they may come to have all the abounding wealth and blessings of assured conviction of understanding, and that they may become progressively more intimately acquainted with and may know more definitely and accurately and thoroughly that mystic secret of God, [which is] Christ (the Anointed One).
3 In Him all the treasures of [divine] wisdom (comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God) and [all the riches of spiritual] knowledge and enlightenment are stored up and lie hidden.
Col 2:2–3.

14 Since, therefore, [these His] children share in flesh and blood [in the physical nature of human beings], He [Himself] in a similar manner partook of the same [nature], that by [going through] death He might bring to nought and make of no effect him who had the power of death—that is, the devil
Heb 2:14.

It is impossible to believe explicitly in the mystery of Christ without faith in the Trinity, since the mystery of Christ includes that the Son of God took flesh; that He renewed the world through the grace of the Holy Ghost; and again, that He was conceived by the Holy Ghost.… And consequently, when once grace had been revealed, all were bound to explicit faith in the mystery of the Trinity

When we become a Christian, part of the grace of God toward us is the gift of the Holy Spirit. When we receive Christ, we receive the Holy Spirit as well. The Holy Spirit acts like an automatic “sin alarm” system. The things we used to do before we were saved that didn’t bother us at all … now an alarm goes off in us when we even consider doing them. That is the Holy Spirit tweaking us to remind us that we are about to sin against the holiness of God.
When Paul says the Spirit has “poured” the love of God into our hearts, he uses a term that suggests such an abundance that there is not sufficient room to contain it. We don’t just have a little of the love of God by the Spirit, we have love that is overflowing! This, I believe, is the overflow that every new Christian experiences when they first come to know Christ and know the Spirit’s presence.

Some Messianic Jews do not believe in the Trinity. I am not one of them, however these Messianics believe in Yeshua for forgiveness of their sins and for eternal life.
Would you consider these Messianics saved?
Shalom

 

[Dizerner]

Some Messianic Jews do not believe in the Trinity. I am not one of them, however these Messianics believe in Yeshua for forgiveness of their sins and for eternal life.
Would you consider these Messianics saved?
Shalom

I consider Oneness still able to be saved through faith in the atonement of Christ.

 

[civic]

I consider Oneness still able to be saved through faith in the atonement of Christ.

what about unitarians (arians )?

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP,
Greeting. if you're convinced of a three person Godhead, may 101G ask you one question? "is the person in John 1:3 who made all things, is this the SAME PERSON who MADE ALL THINGS in Isaiah 44:24" YES or NO?

Looking to hear from you. thanks in advance.

101G.

 

[Dizerner]

what about unitarians (arians )?

As long as they believe and trust in Christ for the atonement of sins, they may be ignorant or blinded and still saved (it is still a grievous error).

Because they acknowledge God sent Christ as an atonement, and trust in that, the sufficiency is in the atonement itself.

I'm very certain of this.

 

[David Koberstein]

I consider Oneness still able to be saved through faith in the atonement of Christ.

I believe this is a trait from Orthodox Judaism that makes it hard to view and accept the Trinity as a Messianic Jew .
Shalom

 

[101G]

what about unitarians (arians )?

NO to all who do not WORSHIP is Spirit and ....... "TRUTH". these whom the Father seek. if unitarianism is TRUE, then ok, if NOT........ ?

101G.

 

[mikesw]

To the original post, individuals in a church group do not have to know or understand the Triune nature of God. I see Christ capturing people's hearts apart from any specific doctrinal knowledge. As many say, we are not saved by what we know but by whom we know. They can have not learned about the Triune nature or have misunderstood the concept. It is the defiance of this doctrine that leads me to start questioning whether someone knows the true Christ. The primary problem is when church leaders teach contrary to the Triune nature and still quite bad when they share no opinion on the website about the church beliefs.

 

[101G]

To the original post, individuals in a church group do not have to know or understand the Triune nature of God. I see Christ capturing people's hearts apart from any specific doctrinal knowledge. As many say, we are not saved by what we know but by whom we know. They can have not learned about the Triune nature or have misunderstood the concept. It is the defiance of this doctrine that leads me to start questioning whether someone knows the true Christ. The primary problem is when church leaders teach contrary to the Triune nature and still quite bad when they share no opinion on the website about the church beliefs.

why do a person have to share a personal opinion on a doctrine? the scriptures are true and clear, for they are not changing for 101G opinion, or anyone else opinion. what we all need to do is to seek God wisdom of his scriptures and let him guide us in HIS truth. for if one is lead of the SAME Spirit, they would say the "SAME THING". and 101G agree that the Lord Jesus have many souls in different church houses and denominations, but he will not leave anyone in darkness when there is LIGHT SHINING. for this was one of the reason why he came, "FOR THOSE WHO SIT IN DARKNESS". for God is not the author of confusion. .... not to stay in darkness.

the test for 101G is this. if he, God, the Lord Jesus say he is one person in diversity state in the ECHAD of himself, and his apostles say the same thing, then 101G is saying what the Lord Jesus and his apostles are say. and so far, 101G has not seen in the bible where God said that he is three separate and distinct persons.

101G.

 

[mikesw]

why do a person have to share a personal opinion on a doctrine? the scriptures are true and clear, for they are not changing for 101G opinion, or anyone else opinion. what we all need to do is to seek God wisdom of his scriptures and let him guide us in HIS truth. for if one is lead of the SAME Spirit, they would say the "SAME THING". and 101G agree that the Lord Jesus have many souls in different church houses and denominations, but he will not leave anyone in darkness when there is LIGHT SHINING. for this was one of the reason why he came, "FOR THOSE WHO SIT IN DARKNESS". for God is not the author of confusion. .... not to stay in darkness.

the test for 101G is this. if he, God, the Lord Jesus say he is one person in diversity state in the ECHAD of himself, and his apostles say the same thing, then 101G is saying what the Lord Jesus and his apostles are say. and so far, 101G has not seen in the bible where God said that he is three separate and distinct persons.

101G.

No one has to share an opinion on scripture or doctrine to be justified in Christ. But no one can speak on scripture unless they are speaking from an opinion. Some opinions have good foundations while others are lacking substantiation. That ability to share opinions is why you are posting here and why people don't agree with your opinion. You are able to share what you like, what you feel is the testimony of scripture. good luck!!