Those of the world-hate truth.
The Trinity and the Incarnation
- Thread starter Rory Wilson
- Start date
No one who has a God gets worship. Its error found in translations done out of Catholicism translating. There are many errors in those translations.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Nope... Hebrews 1:8 does not make one.
The renowned Greek scholar and Trinitarian, A. T. Robertson noted that the Greek word theos (God) could be understood as a vocative, “O God” or as a nominative, as in the phrase “God is thy throne” or “Thy throne is God.” He wrote: “Either [translation] makes good sense.” Hebrews exalts the Son, and in so doing exalts the Father. But in contrast to what Trinitarians say, Hebrews 1:8 (and thus Psalms 45:6) does not call Jesus “God” and does not support the Trinity. The Jews read Psalms 45 for centuries and never concluded that the Messiah would be “God in the flesh” or somehow be part of a Triune God. But beyond that, it is clear in Psalms 45 that the person who is the subject of the Psalms is not God, but is a human being.
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Peterlag
Well-known member
Jesus was never a "mere" man and he was never God. Nor will he ever be God.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Interesting that you say only God should be worshiped when Jesus says this...
John 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Dizerner
Active member
Of course he's God.
the Word was God. (Jn. 1:1 NKJ)
You should turn to prayer, you are badly deceived here.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Jesus Christ is not a lexical definition of logos. The verse does not say "In the beginning was Jesus." The "Word" is not synonymous with Jesus, or even the "Messiah." The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God's creative self-expression... His reason, purpose and plans, especially as they are brought into action. It refers to God's self-expression or communication of Himself. This has come to pass through His creation and especially the heavens. It has come through the spoken word of the prophets and through Scripture. Most notably it has come into being through His Son. The logos is the expression of God and is His communication of Himself just as a "word" is an outward expression of a person's thoughts. This outward expression of God has now occurred through His Son and thus it's perfectly understandable why Jesus is called the "Word." Jesus is an outward expression of God's reason, wisdom, purpose and plan. For the same reason we call revelation "a word from God" and the Bible "the Word of God."
If we understand that the logos is God's expression... His plan, purpose, reason and wisdom. Then it is clear they were with Him "in the beginning." Scripture says God's wisdom was "from the beginning" and it was common in Hebrew writing to personify a concept such as wisdom. The fact that the logos "became" flesh shows it did not exist that way before. There is no pre-existence for Jesus in this verse other than his figurative "existence" as the plan, purpose or wisdom of God for the salvation of man. The same is true with the "word" in writing. It had no literal pre-existence as a "spirit-book" somehow in eternity past, but came into being as God gave the revelation to people and they wrote it down.
Dizerner
Active member
It's one of his titles, my guy.
He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. (Rev. 19:13 NKJ)
You are contradicting yourself. Exist "that way," is implying it's existing, just in another way.
Things can change, it doesn't mean they never existed, simple logical error.
Turn to prayer—this blindness and spiritual stronghold cannot be argued away.
There was a moment I was unsure if Jesus was the Deity or not, and I simply prayed about it for a few months.
MTMattie
Active member
Does God the Father know that?
Heb 1:8
But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
You know whet else is said in Hebrews? verse 6
And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM.”
The son is called God, by the Father. And the angles sre to also worship God the son.
NEXT
Peterlag
Well-known member
Who are the "many" who Christ will say depart from me I never knew you? The Scripture says "many" who will expect to get in. All 42 translations say many with only 1 exception which is the Lamsa Bible that says "A great many".
New International Version
Many will say...
New Living Translation
On judgment day many will say...
English Standard Version
On that day many will say...
Berean Standard Bible
Many will say...
Berean Literal Bible
Many will say...
King James Bible
Many will say...
New King James Version
Many will say...
New American Standard Bible
Many will say...
NASB 1995
“Many will say...
NASB 1977
“Many will say...
Legacy Standard Bible
Many will say...
Amplified Bible
Many will say...
Christian Standard Bible
On that day many will say...
Holman Christian Standard Bible
On that day many will say...
American Standard Version
Many will say...
Contemporary English Version
On the day of judgment many will call me their Lord.
English Revised Version
Many will say...
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Many will say...
Good News Translation
When the Judgment Day comes, many will say...
International Standard Version
Many will say...
Majority Standard Bible
Many will say...
NET Bible
On that day, many will say...
New Heart English Bible
Many will tell me in that day...
Webster's Bible Translation
Many will say...
Weymouth New Testament
Many will say...
World English Bible
Many will tell me in that day...
Literal Standard Version
Many will say...
Berean Literal Bible
Many will say...
Young's Literal Translation
Many will say...
Smith's Literal Translation
Many will say...
Douay-Rheims Bible
Many will say...
Catholic Public Domain Version
Many will say...
New American Bible
Many will say...
New Revised Standard Version
On that day many will say...
Lamsa Bible
A great many will say...
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Many will say...
Anderson New Testament
Many will say...
Godbey New Testament
Many will say...
Haweis New Testament
Many will say...
Mace New Testament
many will cry out to me in that day...
Weymouth New Testament
Many will say...
Worrell New Testament
Many will say...
Worsley New Testament
many will say...
New International Version
Many will say...
New Living Translation
On judgment day many will say...
English Standard Version
On that day many will say...
Berean Standard Bible
Many will say...
Berean Literal Bible
Many will say...
King James Bible
Many will say...
New King James Version
Many will say...
New American Standard Bible
Many will say...
NASB 1995
“Many will say...
NASB 1977
“Many will say...
Legacy Standard Bible
Many will say...
Amplified Bible
Many will say...
Christian Standard Bible
On that day many will say...
Holman Christian Standard Bible
On that day many will say...
American Standard Version
Many will say...
Contemporary English Version
On the day of judgment many will call me their Lord.
English Revised Version
Many will say...
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Many will say...
Good News Translation
When the Judgment Day comes, many will say...
International Standard Version
Many will say...
Majority Standard Bible
Many will say...
NET Bible
On that day, many will say...
New Heart English Bible
Many will tell me in that day...
Webster's Bible Translation
Many will say...
Weymouth New Testament
Many will say...
World English Bible
Many will tell me in that day...
Literal Standard Version
Many will say...
Berean Literal Bible
Many will say...
Young's Literal Translation
Many will say...
Smith's Literal Translation
Many will say...
Douay-Rheims Bible
Many will say...
Catholic Public Domain Version
Many will say...
New American Bible
Many will say...
New Revised Standard Version
On that day many will say...
Lamsa Bible
A great many will say...
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Many will say...
Anderson New Testament
Many will say...
Godbey New Testament
Many will say...
Haweis New Testament
Many will say...
Mace New Testament
many will cry out to me in that day...
Weymouth New Testament
Many will say...
Worrell New Testament
Many will say...
Worsley New Testament
many will say...
dwight92070
Well-known member
[
It's interesting that you refuse to answer my question. Maybe you could say: "I don't know".
It's interesting that you refuse to answer my question. Maybe you could say: "I don't know".
Peterlag
Well-known member
What question?
That is error in your translation--Heb 1:4 is proof-- God, gave Jesus the name Jesus which made him better than the angels, otherwise he was equal to them. Psalm 45:7 is proof as weell. God anointed Jesus with the oil of exultation more than his companions= angels.
Jesus is Michael. God sent his best.
dwight92070
Well-known member
Why don't you tell us the history of the Jehovah's witnesses and the Watchtower Society and the New World Translation, Keiw1? Unless you're ashamed of them.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Hebrews is not a book I study much since most of it concerns Israel. It's just not one of my favorite books. But what I do study well are all the other Epistles and from them I have learned there's no teaching on the trinity anywhere. No whole paragraph or chapter teaching that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.
Peterlag
Well-known member
It seems it would have been clearly stated in the Bible and in the earliest Christian creeds if the doctrine of the Trinity was genuine and central to Christian belief and especially if belief in it was necessary for salvation as many Trinitarians teach. God gave the Scriptures to the Jewish people, and the Jewish religion and worship that comes from that revelation does not contain any reference to or teachings about a triune God. Surely the Jewish people were qualified to read and understand it, but they never saw the doctrine of the Trinity, but rather just the opposite as all throughout their history they fiercely defended the fact that there was only one God. Jesus himself tied the greatest commandment in the Law together with there being only one God when an expert in Old Testament law asked him which of the commandments was the most important. Jesus said to him “The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God….” (Mark 12:29-30).
The Theophanies of the OT clearly showed the presence of the PreIncarnate Christ as Deity. If you want to stay as blind as the Pharisees were then be my guest.
the Jews did not need to know the deity of Christ within the Godhead until Christ Jesus was incarnate or actually after the resurrection. But we know that the Jews did discuss the multiple powers in heaven when trying to understand scripture. It just became clearer when the Son actually was incarnate.
It is not required that someone belief this to be justified but it does seem that intentional ignorance and outright rejection of the deity of Christ would make it questionable whether such a person actually has come to know Christ. We just do not need something more blatant to reveal that the Son of God would be the more definite confirmation of the mysterious figures of the OT. And the constant anachronistic references to the Catholics as if they created the awareness of the Trinitarian essence of God just seems too much of Jehovah Witness indoctrination. Indeed a danger sign.
Peterlag
Well-known member
It's not just the Jews... it's the Christians too. Nobody has seen a teaching on the trinity anywhere in the Bible. No whole paragraph or chapter teaching that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. If the Jews had no trinity, and the Christians had no trinity until it was officially declared by the Catholic Church in the 4th century. Then don’t you have to wonder where it came from? If it was formulated by the same Church that brought you Mary Mother of God, immortality of the soul, purgatory and hellfire... then don't you wonder just a little bit?
All you folks ever put in front of me are bits and pieces of words and half verses that are scattered all over the Bible. Also there's no teaching on why God would come to the earth as a man. Such a concept accomplishes nothing. Romans says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. Some theologians teach that only God could pay for the sins of mankind, but the Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).
If there is a trinity then why not just come out and say it? Why do we have to jump all over the Bible cutting and pasting pieces of words that are scattered all over the Bible? Why not just teach it? I know enough about how the Bible is written in the New Testament and in the Gospels to know if there was a trinity it would have been taught. The Gospels would have clearly said...
Verily, verily I say unto you that I am Jesus and I'm also God.
The Epistles would have writings like...
Yay, I Paul do testify that Jesus who is God came down from heaven to be a man for us. And we do know and testify that this same Jesus who you crucified is God. And so let us bow our knee to the one and only true God-Man Jesus Christ.
And yet there's nothing like that anywhere. Not in the Old or New Testament. Not even one complete verse like that.
