Indeed. Great idea. I hold to the Trinity to conform with what the Bible says. If it showed something other than the Trinity, I would have followed that.
Your Views on The Trinity
- Thread starter Cyrus
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101G
Well-known member
thanks for the reply. ok, is the person in John 1:3 WHO MADE ALL THINGS, is he the same one person in Isaiah 44:24 who made all things? yes or no.
101G.
are you saying there is a verse that undoes the whole bible?
I was going through this video of a rabbi who thought he had found issues with Christian understanding of the bible.
7xLightray
Member
Greeting,
Yes, that's correct. The word, which was spirit, became the body/flesh of Christ.
But, eternal life is knowing two persons.
7xLightray
Member
Because who understands Rev 13:18.
7xLightray
Member
Rom 1:20 creation wise, Adam and Eve 1 Cor 11:3, 8-10. and Jn 1:15, 30, even Lk 20:41-44.
Yes!
No!
Jesus shows He cannot be the only true God that sent, for Jesus said He did not send Himself, or come of His own accord.
John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
John 7:28 So Jesus proclaimed, as he taught in the temple, “You know me, and you know where I come from. But I have not come of my own accord. He who sent me is true, and him you do not know.
John 7:29 I know him, for I come from him, and he sent me.”
John 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.
Isa 55:10-11 For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven..so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.
And on top of that with Isa 55:10-11, Jesus also said it's not His doctrine: Jn 7:16 "Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." It was the only true God who sent Him, and sent His word/doctrine. If you were looking for two witnesses.
101G
Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all.
First, thanks for the reply. second there is only "ONE" eternal Life who is a single person. supportive scripture,
#1. 1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;" 1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."
here, "ONLY", it mean ...... "and no one or nothing more besides; solely or exclusively". and the ONLY King of Kings, and Lord of lords is the Lord Jesus. so, he's the only eternal Life, one person.
#2. to clear up the two persons. listen carefully. a. the term God in Genesis 1:1 says it all.
God:
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433
PLEASE NOTE, the definition states [plural of H433] ok, who is H433?
H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Root(s): H410
now, if H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m. and H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m. are separate and distinct "PERSONS" then you have two Gods.
but the definition is clear that these two entities are the same person is clearly stated in the definition of H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m. LISTEN CAREFULLY, and CLEARLY. the [plural of H433]
understand now? plural "of" not "from", but "of" H433. of indicate the same PERSON. if the definition would have said "from" H433, then H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m would be a separate and Distinct person "From" H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m. then your trinity doctrine would have been correct.
so this is the KEY mistake of those who accept the Trinity doctrine. if they would have understood "of" vs "from" there would have not been a trinity doctrine at all. this is the deception from the evil one who has deceived the whole world. but we who is "of" God has been called out of the World to know the truth so we may witness to the TRUTH, which 101G is now presenting.
please understand, the Hebrew term "ECHAD", the strong #H259 certify the definition H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m as God the "EQUAL SHARE" ..... "OF" himself in flesh. supportive scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" to be EQUAL "WITH" make bare the truth of the Hebrew term H259 ECHAD. the equal Spirit SHARED "of" his own self is EQUAL "WITH", not EQUAL "TO", but equal "WITH". another mistake on the theologians. common mistakes of simple words like "of", vs "from", or "to" vs "with". now the clear understanding.
for the equal share is in the definition of this word "form" root,
G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313
and as you clearly stated, "God is a Spirit". but to understand if H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m and H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m are two separate persons are not, the answer is in the ROOT of G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n itself, for the definition states, [perhaps from the base of G3313]. well let's see what G3313 states,
G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something). we need not to go any futher we have our answer.
another word that is synonym with portion is "SHARE". BINGO, there is the TRUTH about the Godhead. God is the EQUAL SHARE of, of, of, HIMSELF, just as the definition 430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m states, a EQUAL SHARE "of" himself H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m in Flesh. and this is backed up in Scripture. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." BINGO, his "OWN" ARM? yes, he himself, (GOD), in flesh that came to EARTH IN "FLESH" MANIFESTED as a Man. this is why in heaven God says my, my, my Son, (on Earth), in referring to his own EQUALLY SHARED SPIRIT in Flesh in a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') state as a man while on EARTH. which my, (shows possession), while on Earth in flesh in a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') states. and in that state on Earth, he says my, my, my, Father which are in heaven, (my shows possession of that same one Spirit in heaven), supportive scripture, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." while on earth in flesh, (the Lord JESUS, without flesh was in heaven)..... all at the the same time. just as Isaiah 63:5 states, "MINE OWN ARM", and my show that possession. and this OWN ARM of God in Flesh is clearly demonstrated in Isaiah chapter 53.
we suggest you re-read this post for clarity. and if you have any questions, please ask them. 101G do not argue but seek a discussion in TRUTH, by the Scriptures.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
Rom 1:20 creation wise, Adam and Eve 1 Cor 11:3, 8-10. and Jn 1:15, 30, even Lk 20:41-44.
Yes!
No!
Romans 1:2 ERROR, Father and Son are not biological in respect to each other.
YES! ERROR, it is not the Father who sits on the throne in Revelation 4 or 5. for if so, one question, "WHO GAVE THE FATHER POWER". for he who sits was given power. scripture, Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."
so, book chapter and verse please as to WHO gave the Father POWER? will be looking for that scripture.
No?.... not the true God? re-read my post #87 above.
101G
101G
Well-known member
God, and by his word he gives understanding. Revelation 13:18 "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."
JUST READ THE PROCEEDING VERSES "WITH" THE HOLY SPIRIT AND YOU WILL HAVE YOUR ANSWER. (smile)....
101G.
civic
Well-known member
Yes sometimes I just pray to God without thinking about the Father,Son or H.S. and other times I address the Father and sometimes I address the Son.
The only thing with this diagram is the lines of separation . If there is only one God then the lines would be better dotted. Then is distinction but not separation.
101G
Well-known member
is not the Lord Jesus the Father? Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
is not the Father the Son equally Shared in Flesh? Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me." the Lord God? yes, JESUS.
the time has come for all to repent of the false doctrine of the trinity.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
To all trinitarians,
a serious question, "WHY stay in a doctrine that you say is a mystery to explain and have no knowledge scripturally to back up your belief. the scripture must harmonize. example, the one who sits on the throne in Revelation chapter 4 and 5 is the same one who stands before the throne.
so, the one who sits is he who stands, the only one TRUE God in the ECHAD of Equal Share of himself.
if any trinitarian say different then produce scripture to explain as to who sits and stand concerning the throne in Rev 4 & 5.
101G.
a serious question, "WHY stay in a doctrine that you say is a mystery to explain and have no knowledge scripturally to back up your belief. the scripture must harmonize. example, the one who sits on the throne in Revelation chapter 4 and 5 is the same one who stands before the throne.
so, the one who sits is he who stands, the only one TRUE God in the ECHAD of Equal Share of himself.
if any trinitarian say different then produce scripture to explain as to who sits and stand concerning the throne in Rev 4 & 5.
101G.
7xLightray
Member
Maybe, this should be made clear first, you know I am not a trinitarian, right?
Oops, lets back up, you skipped over my point(s), the most important one(s). I get it, you want to share your doctrine, but
before we carry on debating for nothing, this needs to be answered from post #86: You did not clear up the two persons, because, before you jump over what I have put forth in post #86, you first would need to show, before you can bring anything else to the table, how Jesus can be the only true God that sent, if Jesus did not send Himself. How one person can be both the one that sent and did not send, That is an act of a "person," and belonging to that "person"! Even, how the same person's doctrine, is and is not their doctrine. Then you/we would be in the right place to carry on. Otherwise our posts are going to get huge, answering things that otherwise may not have to be. Lets take this one step at a time, would you not agree? Cause I to have more to bring to the table, and questions, or responses, to put to you, but not all in one post.
Plus, I believe there is only one God person in Genesis 1, which is the Father, but that Jesus and the Father are two persons. And that is God's flesh and blood. And His own arm is His own power, which is His word. And Jesus is the image of God. You can say all that you have said in post #87, but still have two persons, this is what you seem to be missing (not to be rude).
Jesus is the arm of the lord, but does that mean Jesus the man and God the Father are the same person? God said He explained His image Isa 40:21.
Do you not know? Do you not hear?
Has it not been told you from the beginning?
Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
Here is a contradiction that can be solved: Adam is not Eve, and Eve is not Adam, yet, Adam is Eve, and Eve is Adam. Do you understand this, cause this explains God's image?Has it not been told you from the beginning?
Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
But, a doctrine which says the son person is the Father person (the same person), is denying the son (God's testimony about His Son); no son no father. You can't have a father and son with only one person, it takes two persons to have a father and son, according to creation. And, son of God means son of God, as in the son of Jim.
So, I will answer after you answer#86, would you not agree that to be right and fair, if we are to hear each other.
7xLightray
Member
It was not a question, though I understand how you could have mistaken it for a typo.
And yes, God does provide the answer, even the calculation, and the number(s). The answer is in 1 Kings 10:14, or 2 Chr 9:13, even Ezr 2:13 backs this up; and Rev 13:1-2.
This is how it reads in the k.Greek. Here the wisdom is/exists (Present, Indicative), the one possessing the intellect calculate the total (as reckoned up) of the beast. A total for a man (as reckoned up) is/exists (Present, Indicative: same as in Jn 8:58 Before Abraham was, I is/am/exist (also Present, Indicative)), and his total is 666.
What is the only command we are given? Calculate/compute/add up the total (as reckoned up) of the beast. We know were the beast is, what we are missing is how to calculate it. So, we should find a calculation from a man with the total of 666. This calls for the wisdom of Solomon!
I am trying to see if there is some argument against the Trinity doctrine that we discover when seeking to understand the Godhead. Is the argument against scripture being made in a messy format or is it just my inability to discern the argument? I know I've made malformed arguments for stuff about scripture. Even when I make a good argument, it can be hard for others to follow.
Because the Father is fully God, the Son is and the Holy Spirit is.
And there is one God.
This is clear in the Bible. Jesus is fully God..as is the Holy Spirit.
So... the only way this works is one Triune God.
If you call Jesus being the one person God..and He is the Father and the Holy Spirit...
That is still one Triune God.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Chuckle!!!! OF COURSE IT'S ILLOGICAL!!!! But you appear to have forgotten that its GOD we're discussing, and have forgotten (or never knew) that you know little of NOTHING of His totality, or his ways - And yet you try to address Him with "Human logic"???!!
Get real!!!!
That is such a critical element to remember. I think God's uniqueness in the Trinity is helpful to show this is not some idea created by people. Why make up something that would be beyond us to understand.lol
7xLightray
Member
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power [His word] and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [for the KJVO's]
