praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Not when they are an adult/mature. Do you mind if I ask you how "old you are"?
I thought you would understand such things.
Your Views on The Trinity
- Thread starter Cyrus
- Start date
Not when they are an adult/mature. Do you mind if I ask you how "old you are"?
I thought you would understand such things.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I quoted the ESV Bible. Which certainly has more authority than your "paraphrase". No. I am not accepting your false paraphrase. Deal with a reputable English reference or establish your paraphrase as being accurate. I have no requirement to come toward you in this. None.
"Spoon feed"? I can confirm that I've witnessed children tell other children how to eat before. No one takes such seriously. I'm trying to stay out of such rhetoric at the moment. Trust me, I can give better than I get it. No need to go there.
I sure do. It is metaphorical expression relative to value of Jesus Christ. You're trying to create separation between the Father and Son. A "rank". A "pecking order".
I've managed people doing complex projects for a long time. I don't need to be the "boss" to get things done. In fact, when we all agree, everything goes perfectly.
That is Unity. You prefer to have control. I can tell you enjoy when you're in control. Don't project your nature upon the Son.
You were not claiming this earlier. You insisted that the Trinity can not be true because of how "Trinitarians" treat the literal fleshly form of Jesus Christ.
NOW.... you're appealing to a "doctrine"..... Which is it"?
Are you going to change your argument again. I bet you will. Please be consistent.
7xLightray
Member
So then, you agree a father has authority over a child.
If God was your literal father, you would not obey Him when you got older? Maybe not, but does that make it right in God's eyes? Also, things were different in their day. For example, a father had authority even when they were older, he could refuse to give his daughter over to marriage.
But the older Jesus loved His father, and came to do His will, not His own will. That is obeying His father, when He was older.
My father is greater then me, because he was before me. But equal to me, because I came out of him.
Cyrus
Active member
After some research on The Trinity I like the description "three manifestations of One God." But how does this one God involve three? That's where most of us become confused.
We have a desire to understand how the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are eternally distinct persons. The terms Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are rather three functions or manifestations of the one God.
For example, I am a father, a son, and a friend. These are different roles that I play as a single person. Similarly, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three temporal functions of the one God in action within various circumstances.
We have a desire to understand how the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are eternally distinct persons. The terms Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are rather three functions or manifestations of the one God.
For example, I am a father, a son, and a friend. These are different roles that I play as a single person. Similarly, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three temporal functions of the one God in action within various circumstances.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
We are not talking about children.
You're running here. You know you are. You said something really stupid and now you're trying to salvage your position.
No. My Father was an idiot drunk. Why would I obey an idiot drunk.
There is no division among the Father and Son. Perfect Unity. When you see the SON. You see the Father.
John 14:9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
I'll stop right here and wait for you to acknowledge your mistake.
Again. You're dishonoring the Son by insisting that He needs to be ordered around by the Authority of the Father.
It really is a extraordinarily moronic position to hold (did you know that "moronic" once was a medical term relative to IQ) The etymology of the English word moron comes through Greek. Which is μωρός.... Which is often translated "fool" in early modern English Bibles. Relative to English, you could literally use the word "Blockhead".
I know this offends some but sometimes I wish people would just see evidence for what it is. The languages of men are often silly circles. << just making an academic point here....
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praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Relative to the teaching of the Trinity, this would be a bad example. I'm not criticizing you at all.
I would recommend that you get to know the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union and you will then better understand the apologetic defense of the Holy Trinity.
The truths revealed in the Union of the Divine Person of Jesus Christ into a body of flesh..... reveals to us the complex nature of God.
Christ is a Divine Person. Not a human person.
The word "Person" is a descriptive term relative to totality of "being". Most people treat Person as Personification. Which is not accurate. It is more than a representation.
Speculator
Member
The Scripture lead to the conclusion that the one being of God exists as three eternally distinct (though inseparable) persons who save in loving interaction with each other. From time eternal, the divine Word (or Son) of God was “with” God the Father.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. John 1:1–5
The Holy Spirit facilitated the conception of the Son in Mary’s womb
Then the angel said to her, The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you [like a shining cloud]; and so the holy (pure, sinless) Thing (Offspring) which shall be born of you will be called the Son of God. Luke 1:35
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. John 1:1–5
The Holy Spirit facilitated the conception of the Son in Mary’s womb
Then the angel said to her, The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you [like a shining cloud]; and so the holy (pure, sinless) Thing (Offspring) which shall be born of you will be called the Son of God. Luke 1:35
Cyrus
Active member
Hypostatic Union ... I've heard of it before all refresh my memory on it, thanks. Divine person I like that description
7xLightray
Member
That's not true I also gave you this..
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. From the KJV.
What? No clue as to what you are going on about here.
Mat 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
Lets see here, in John 1:14 The word came down from heaven and became flesh. And in John 6:51 The bread that came down is His flesh.
Yes I did in post #16, under "The Doctrine of the Incarnation of Christ: For example, Trinity doctrine teaches the Word was a Person that came down from heaven, and that Christ's flesh/body came from Mary.
Christ's doctrine contradicts that doctrine of the Trinity, when saying the bread/word that came down from heaven is the flesh/body of Christ."
That's right, I also claimed that as well.
It is both.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
The KJV is wrong. King James is dead. What he wanted in his edition doesn't mean anything to me. Sometimes is right. This time it is wrong.
I used the words you posted. "Spoon feed". I don't let children feed me. You're lose teeth is you let children "spoon feed" you.
Yep. Metaphorical expression used as an example. You're playing a word association game. Do you still use that methodology? I gave that up when I started studying the Scriptures. English is funny like that.
John 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
Funny how you say "both" NOW when you didn't say it earlier. You're confirming what I said. You're making this up as you go. Which is why you're being inconsistent.
There are no contradictions. You're ignoring the work of Jesus Christ in the Incarnation.
Have you "eaten the flesh" of Jesus Christ? I don't see any concern whatsoever for Jesus Christ in your words. In fact, I see you belittling Him.
After all.... He had to obey the Father because "he didn't want to do it". Right?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I'll think I'll start a thread from a theological perspective of immutability.
7xLightray
Member
Yes, we are talking about children. I'm the child of my father, even now at this time. Jesus is the child of God, and He gave up His will for His fathers will, this is obeying His father when He was older.
What did I say that was stupid, that I'm running from? What mistake? Jesus is the perfect image of God, yup, but why bring this up?
"Again. You're dishonoring the Son by insisting that He needs to be ordered around by the Authority of the Father." No, Jesus gave up His will for the Fathers will, that is obeying the Father.
Cyrus
Active member
That sounds interesting go for it.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I'm not in front of all my resources at the moment. I'll work on it tonight. Thanks
7xLightray
Member
Okay, if you think this will make a difference..
ESV John 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
No. We really are not. A son turns into a father (or not) and the father dies. A son becomes a father and the father is forgotten. Generation after generation. Surely you know how it works.
With God, it is different.
Do you mind stating clearly what "rank" Jesus Christ has relative to the Father. Is he "second" or are there sons above Jesus Christ?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
If we are going to have a conversation, then you need to respond to more than what you're responding to currently. I'm not going to participate if you're just going to "pick and choose" what YOU want to include.
It does make a difference relative to your "word association games".
7xLightray
Member
Does not matter, a father is greater then a son, but a son is equal to a father. Until you can come to understand this simple order in creation, I see no point in debating it.
Jesus existed in the form of God, He was before all creation, and all of creation was made by Him (which was the word that came forth out of God's mouth, and whatever is before creation is God). God's word is eternal, and living, that comes forth out of the eternal living God. So, he is first before anything created, but not that He was a person at this time. Grass may not be a person, but it is living. And that eternal living word became flesh, and the person, who grew in wisdom, as we all do (usually). So whatever rank would you say that puts Him in? As in this "You shall be over my house, and all my people shall order themselves as you command. Only as regards the throne will I be greater than you.”
7xLightray
Member
You said "The KJV is wrong. King James is dead. What he wanted in his edition doesn't mean anything to me. Sometimes is right. This time it is wrong." You quoted the ESV, so here is the ESV. It still says what I said it says, look... John 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
Do you disagree with the ESV also, now?
Grace ambassador
Well-known member
op: Tri-Unity Of The GodHead:
Excellent Examples Of Humility we should follow?:
God The Son Humbled Himself To "Be Sent By God The Father"!
(Luke 4:18; John 5:30, 5:36, 5:37, 6:39, 6:44, 6:57, 7:29, 20:21 AV),
And:
God, The Holy Spirit [ Doubly ] Humbled Himself To "Be Sent By
Both The Father And The Son"!! (John 14:26, 15:26 AV)
"That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches
of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of The Mystery
of God [ The Holy Spirit ], and of the Father, and of Christ" (Colossians 2:2 AV)
Why The Triune GodHead Is Correct!
Amen.
Excellent Examples Of Humility we should follow?:
God The Son Humbled Himself To "Be Sent By God The Father"!
(Luke 4:18; John 5:30, 5:36, 5:37, 6:39, 6:44, 6:57, 7:29, 20:21 AV),
And:
God, The Holy Spirit [ Doubly ] Humbled Himself To "Be Sent By
Both The Father And The Son"!! (John 14:26, 15:26 AV)
"That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches
of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of The Mystery
of God [ The Holy Spirit ], and of the Father, and of Christ" (Colossians 2:2 AV)
Why The Triune GodHead Is Correct!
Amen.
