Your Views on The Trinity

Peterlag said:
There is not one verse that says Jesus is God the Son. Nor has there ever been a teaching on it anywhere in the Bible. The Jews never saw it anywhere in the entire Old Testament nor anyone in the New Testament ever taught it. The Catholics who invented this nonsense have used only about 8 verses that they have to piece together from statements that are scattered all over the New Testament. One should think if such nonsense was true and important that it would have been taught by someone. And it is not. Only in the minds of Catholics who cannot explain it.
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Welcome to the forum Peterlag. So what are we talking about? You don't believe in the trinity? Or you don't believe in the deity of Jesus Christ? Or you don't believe that Jesus is the son of God?

Let's start with the last one first. Jesus is God’s Son in that He was conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:35 declares, “The angel answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.’”

Then the deity of Jesus Christ. We could make a long list out of this one. Let's go with Jesus forgave sin in the bible and only God can do that.

Jesus Forgives Sins​

1. Jesus got into a boat, crossed the sea, and came to his own city. 2. Some people brought him a paralyzed man on a stretcher.
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Cheer up, friend! Your sins are forgiven.” Matthew 9:1-2

Then we have the Trinity. The Apostle John has something to say about the trinity.

23 No one who [habitually] denies (disowns) the Son even has the Father. Whoever confesses (acknowledges and has) the Son has the Father also.
24 As for you, keep in your hearts what you have heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the first dwells and remains in you, then you will dwell in the Son and in the Father [always].
25 And this is what He Himself has promised us—the life, the eternal [life].
1 John 2:23–25.

John is saying if you have one you have both because they're a trinity, God the Father God the Son and the Holy Spirit. Each being God. :love:
 
Cyrus said:
Welcome to the forum Peterlag. So what are we talking about? You don't believe in the trinity? Or you don't believe in the deity of Jesus Christ? Or you don't believe that Jesus is the son of God?

Let's start with the last one first. Jesus is God’s Son in that He was conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:35 declares, “The angel answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.’”

Then the deity of Jesus Christ. We could make a long list out of this one. Let's go with Jesus forgave sin in the bible and only God can do that.

Jesus Forgives Sins​

1. Jesus got into a boat, crossed the sea, and came to his own city. 2. Some people brought him a paralyzed man on a stretcher.
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Cheer up, friend! Your sins are forgiven.” Matthew 9:1-2

Then we have the Trinity. The Apostle John has something to say about the trinity.

23 No one who [habitually] denies (disowns) the Son even has the Father. Whoever confesses (acknowledges and has) the Son has the Father also.
24 As for you, keep in your hearts what you have heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the first dwells and remains in you, then you will dwell in the Son and in the Father [always].
25 And this is what He Himself has promised us—the life, the eternal [life].
1 John 2:23–25.

John is saying if you have one you have both because they're a trinity, God the Father God the Son and the Holy Spirit. Each being God. :love:
Click to expand...
The Bible teaches that Jesus is the son of God. The Bible does not teach that Jesus is God. We have about 50 places that say Jesus is the son of God. We have zero places where it says Jesus is God. Let's start there.
 
The deity of Jesus Christ works for me. Not so much for unitarians.

The very first one that I like to use is what Jesus himself said...

Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the Father? John 14:9

30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[a]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” John 10:30-38

The deity of Christ is a doctrine essential to Christianity.

So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.
Mark 2:28.

IN THE beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. [Isa. 9:6.]
2 He was present originally with God.
3 All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being.
4 In Him was Life, and the Life was the Light of men.
5 And the Light shines on in the darkness, for the darkness has never overpowered it [put it out or absorbed it or appropriated it, and is unreceptive to it].
6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 This man came to witness, that he might testify of the Light, that all men might believe in it [adhere to it, trust it, and rely upon it] through him.
8 He was not the Light himself, but came that he might bear witness regarding the Light.
9 There it was—the true Light [was then] coming into the world [the genuine, perfect, steadfast Light] that illumines every person. [Isa. 49:6.]
10 He came into the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him [did not know Him].
11 He came to that which belonged to Him [to His own—His domain, creation, things, world], and they who were His own did not receive Him and did not welcome Him.
12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name—[Isa. 56:5.]
13 Who owe their birth neither to bloods nor to the will of the flesh [that of physical impulse] nor to the will of man [that of a natural father], but to God. [They are born of God!]
14 And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled (fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us; and we [actually] saw His glory (His honor, His majesty), such glory as an only begotten son receives from his father, full of grace (favor, loving-kindness) and truth. [Isa. 40:5.]
John 1:1–14

58 Jesus replied, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I AM. [Exod. 3:14.]
John 8:58
Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God!
John 20:28
Therefore [because He stooped so low] God has highly exalted Him and has freely bestowed on Him the name that is above every name,
10 That in (at) the name of Jesus every knee should (must) bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 And every tongue [frankly and openly] confess and acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:9–11
For it has pleased [the Father] that all the divine fullness (the sum total of the divine perfection, powers, and attributes) should dwell in Him permanently.
Colossians 1:19

There's a start I'm just getting warmed up.
 
Cyrus said:
The deity of Jesus Christ works for me. Not so much for unitarians.

The very first one that I like to use is what Jesus himself said...

Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the Father? John 14:9

30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[a]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” John 10:30-38

The deity of Christ is a doctrine essential to Christianity.

So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.
Mark 2:28.

IN THE beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. [Isa. 9:6.]
2 He was present originally with God.
3 All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being.
4 In Him was Life, and the Life was the Light of men.
5 And the Light shines on in the darkness, for the darkness has never overpowered it [put it out or absorbed it or appropriated it, and is unreceptive to it].
6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 This man came to witness, that he might testify of the Light, that all men might believe in it [adhere to it, trust it, and rely upon it] through him.
8 He was not the Light himself, but came that he might bear witness regarding the Light.
9 There it was—the true Light [was then] coming into the world [the genuine, perfect, steadfast Light] that illumines every person. [Isa. 49:6.]
10 He came into the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him [did not know Him].
11 He came to that which belonged to Him [to His own—His domain, creation, things, world], and they who were His own did not receive Him and did not welcome Him.
12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name—[Isa. 56:5.]
13 Who owe their birth neither to bloods nor to the will of the flesh [that of physical impulse] nor to the will of man [that of a natural father], but to God. [They are born of God!]
14 And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled (fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us; and we [actually] saw His glory (His honor, His majesty), such glory as an only begotten son receives from his father, full of grace (favor, loving-kindness) and truth. [Isa. 40:5.]
John 1:1–14

58 Jesus replied, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I AM. [Exod. 3:14.]
John 8:58
Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God!
John 20:28
Therefore [because He stooped so low] God has highly exalted Him and has freely bestowed on Him the name that is above every name,
10 That in (at) the name of Jesus every knee should (must) bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 And every tongue [frankly and openly] confess and acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:9–11
For it has pleased [the Father] that all the divine fullness (the sum total of the divine perfection, powers, and attributes) should dwell in Him permanently.
Colossians 1:19

There's a start I'm just getting warmed up.
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These that you quote are not teachings. They are verses that you think means Jesus is God. A teaching would be a whole chapter or two saying that Jesus is God and why. There's no such teaching anywhere. I will commit on even your verses if you would enjoy giving me just one at a time.
 
civic said:
He is a modalist, oneness. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all the same person.
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Who is a modalist,, oneness. hope you're not speaking of 101G. if so, get it right. 101G is a diversified Oneness. and yes the HOLY SPIRIT hold the title of Father/LORD, and Son/Lord at the same time in the ECHAD, per Isaiah 63:5 and Phil 2:6. please get it right...... ok. .... (smile). o_O

PICJAG 101G
 
Peterlag said:
There must be some reason why folks think there was some reason why God would come down as a man. What would that profit? Romans 5:15 says “For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.” Some theologians teach that only God could pay for the sins of mankind, but the Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).
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Correct, most do not understand that "MAN" is God's own image to come. which he did in due time.... Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." hence is the reason why he is Father, the Ordinal FIRST, and the Son, the Ordinal LAST in the ECHAD. and this coming in flesh... his own Image, is also borne out in Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,"
this is God's OWN ARM of Isaiah 63:5 and declared in Isaiah chapter 53.

God is a MAN, but not like you and all of us, that lie.

101G
 
Cyrus said:
Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the Father? John 14:9

30 I and the Father are one.”
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do you know how the Lord Jesus and the Father is "ONE?"

101G.
 
101G said:
Correct, most do not understand that "MAN" is God's own image to come. which he did in due time.... Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." hence is the reason why he is Father, the Ordinal FIRST, and the Son, the Ordinal LAST in the ECHAD. and this coming in flesh... his own Image, is also borne out in Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,"
this is God's OWN ARM of Isaiah 63:5 and declared in Isaiah chapter 53.

God is a MAN, but not like you and all of us, that lie.

101G
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May I have the verse that says God is a man? I must have missed it If you already gave it.
 
Peterlag said:
These that you quote are not teachings. They are verses that you think means Jesus is God. A teaching would be a whole chapter or two saying that Jesus is God and why. There's no such teaching anywhere. I will commit on even your verses if you would enjoy giving me just one at a time.
Click to expand...
You should have been there in around AD30 to advise God how he should have spoken to the people. You missed a great opportunity. Other than that, there is no reason that Jesus has to have spoken to suit your demands. Jesus conveyed his divinity in the fashion in accord with God's wisdom and plan.
Responding to individual verses is related to finding proof texts out of context. You do not find the essence of Christ in a single verse here or there.
 
mikesw said:
You should have been there in around AD30 to advise God how he should have spoken to the people. You missed a great opportunity. Other than that, there is no reason that Jesus has to have spoken to suit your demands. Jesus conveyed his divinity in the fashion in accord with God's wisdom and plan.
Responding to individual verses is related to finding proof texts out of context. You do not find the essence of Christ in a single verse here or there.
Click to expand...
Something that is openly admitted by theologians that is not known by many Christians is that the doctrine of the Trinity is not stated in the Bible, but is actually “built” by piecing together statements that are said to support it. Since most Christians believe the Trinity is a mystery and not to be understood is a huge reason why doctrinal discussions about it are often avoided or brushed aside and ignored. Worse, the teaching that the Trinity is a“mystery” has been used as a club to beat down doubters and dissenters, and those people are often branded as “heretics” and their role in Christianity minimized.
 
101G said:
Who is a modalist,, oneness. hope you're not speaking of 101G. if so, get it right. 101G is a diversified Oneness. and yes the HOLY SPIRIT hold the title of Father/LORD, and Son/Lord at the same time in the ECHAD, per Isaiah 63:5 and Phil 2:6. please get it right...... ok. .... (smile). o_O

PICJAG 101G
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yes thats modalism. :)
 
Fred said:
I know of some Unitarians who affirm it is okay to pray to Jesus, while other Unitarians say it should not be done.

What do you believe?
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I now spend much of my time right inside the spirit as close as I can get right in their face. The Greek word menō translated "abide" often deals with being in him, which I'm very concerned about when it comes to walking in Christ, which I believe is the same as walking in the spirit. To be in him or to abide in him deals with remaining or continuing to be present. To dwell, live, and be within him to the end that we are operative in him by his divine influence and energy. My first red flag that started me looking into how to do this was when I realized it's the Catholics that teach we are sinners. They teach us to look at ourselves and our sin. I teach that we should look at Christ and to walk in his spirit.
 
Peterlag said:
I now spend much of my time right inside the spirit as close as I can get right in their face. The Greek word menō translated "abide" often deals with being in him, which I'm very concerned about when it comes to walking in Christ, which I believe is the same as walking in the spirit. To be in him or to abide in him deals with remaining or continuing to be present. To dwell, live, and be within him to the end that we are operative in him by his divine influence and energy. My first red flag that started me looking into how to do this was when I realized it's the Catholics that teach we are sinners. They teach us to look at ourselves and our sin. I teach that we should look at Christ and to walk in his spirit.
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Allot of calvinists who came out of the RCC believe the same thing. Believers are saints, not sinners. The Apostles address the churches as saints in their epistles. :)
 
civic said:
Allot of calvinists who came out of the RCC believe the same thing. Believers are saints, not sinners. The Apostles address the churches as saints in their epistles. :)
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I don't know anything about Calvinists. And by the way, who are you... one of those big shot administers?
 
Peterlag said:
I don't know anything about Calvinists. And by the way, who are you... one of those big shot administers?
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No I started this forum with our @Administrator. I don’t like to moderate I enjoy posting and apologetics. Allot of us were on another forum for many years and several people asked if I would start a forum. I did not want to do it alone and asked our administrator if he would like to do it together and here we are 1 year later on this forum.
 
civic said:
No I started this forum with our @Administrator. I don’t like to moderate I enjoy posting and apologetics. Allot of us were on another forum for many years and several people asked if I would start a forum. I did not want to do it alone and asked our administrator if he would like to do it together and here we are 1 year later on this forum.
Click to expand...
That's right, Just always remember and never forget who the big shot administrator is.:ROFLMAO:
 

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