Your Views on The Trinity

101G said:
if this is true... where was they in the beginning when all things was made. supportive scripture, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
if the LORD was "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF", where was the other two who supposed to be omnipresence?

for "ALONE" means.... having no one else present. if no one else was present, then your other two persons are not omnipresence, meaning they are not God or anything, especially persons.

101G.
Click to expand...
...except IF the LORD IS a reference to the Unity of three divine persons, this verse tells us that outside of the Unity, outside of the one true GOD, there was none other to help HIM.

The divine attributes do NOT just make a deity, it makes ONE deity who is alone among the supposed pantheon of GODs.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
SImple - There is one.

It's characterized as: Father Son And Holy Spirit. There are any number of explanations of it, and fancy diagrams. But in the final analysis NOBODY REALLY UNDERSTANDS the totality of it, and we never will - until later. In the meantime, it's just "Theology".
Click to expand...
I did not make this Quote "Your Views on The Trinity." No biggie though.

If you wish to feed me, I eat flesh. Please pass the bread!
Solve your contradictions, and show my doctrine in error; if you can stand. Both need to be done, for the good of us both.​
Gather all your mighty men, all the wise: students; educated; scribes; priests; ministers; theologians; Pharisees; the guy on the street corner; all, don't leave anyone out.
I know who I received this sword from, and I know who you worship.
I am not against you, but to make the crooked straight, yet, you are against me, this I know.​

I am trying to warn all about,
"Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
and I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto me," and the wrath to come, but if they reject it, my head is clean, theirs is red.

I know what it is like reading the Bible as a Trinitarian, as Oneness, as Unitarian, as J.W., and even one of my own (which also did not work out). Out of the first four, Trinity and Oneness, seemed like the best choices. And out of those two, the Trinity seemed the best choice, even with it's contradictions. I debated for, and against, all of them for about 14 years. It did not make me understand the scriptures a whole lot better, but I knew there was something wrong with all of these Christian denomination Gods, and mine. Which caused me to cry out to my God, because I thought it unfair that I could not know who my God was. Starting on Nov. 25, 2016 I have taken this doctrine to all the denomination I can. If you want a doctrine that no one can overcome, this is the one that will make the scriptures straight.

It is the fool who does not overturn every rock, even if he had to do it secret.
 
7xLightray said:
I did not make this Quote "Your Views on The Trinity." No biggie though.

If you wish to feed me, I eat flesh. Please pass the bread!
Solve your contradictions, and show my doctrine in error; if you can stand. Both need to be done, for the good of us both.​
Gather all your mighty men, all the wise: students; educated; scribes; priests; ministers; theologians; Pharisees; the guy on the street corner; all, don't leave anyone out.
I know who I received this sword from, and I know who you worship.
I am not against you, but to make the crooked straight, yet, you are against me, this I know.​

I am trying to warn all about,
"Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
and I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto me," and the wrath to come, but if they reject it, my head is clean, theirs is red.

I know what it is like reading the Bible as a Trinitarian, as Oneness, as Unitarian, as J.W., and even one of my own (which also did not work out). Out of the first four, Trinity and Oneness, seemed like the best choices. And out of those two, the Trinity seemed the best choice, even with it's contradictions. I debated for, and against, all of them for about 14 years. It did not make me understand the scriptures a whole lot better, but I knew there was something wrong with all of these Christian denomination Gods, and mine. Which caused me to cry out to my God, because I thought it unfair that I could not know who my God was. Starting on Nov. 25, 2016 I have taken this doctrine to all the denomination I can. If you want a doctrine that no one can overcome, this is the one that will make the scriptures straight.

It is the fool who does not overturn every rock, even if he had to do it secret.
Click to expand...
Much sound and fury about nothing.
 
This is one reason God must be a Trinity.
I will use the Son as an example....


No one has ever seen God. The one and only Son, who is himself God ​
and is at the Father’s side—he has revealed him. John 1:18​


That is a typical, and good, but generalized translation. One that needs some explaining
in regards to the exact meaning found in the original languages.

Back in the 90's I used to correspond with a pastor who taught exegetically.
In one letter he mentioned John 1:18, and that the Greek word used to say, that "he revealed him"
is a same Greek word that commands pastors to exegete the Scriptures for their hearers.

Later I noticed that the Amplified translation chose to render John 1:18 in that way.
Here is the Amplified classic rendering...


No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God,
Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him
[He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him
and He has made Him known].

Notice how it says that the Son *interprets* God for us? Why?

Because, God in nature and essence is totally foreign to our human frame of reference.
God as God is beyond our human comprehension.

Jesus, being both fully human and fully God?
He's God's perfect candidate to take what He fully knows about God
and to interpret for us (perfectly) God in human terms we can relate to!

Without Jesus having two natures in union?
We could never know God


grace and peace .............
 
GeneZ said:
This is one reason God must be a Trinity.
I will use the Son as an example....


No one has ever seen God. The one and only Son, who is himself God ​
and is at the Father’s side—he has revealed him. John 1:18​


That is a typical, and good, but generalized translation. One that needs some explaining
in regards to the exact meaning found in the original languages.

Back in the 90's I used to correspond with a pastor who taught exegetically.
In one letter he mentioned John 1:18, and that the Greek word used to say, that "he revealed him"
is a same Greek word that commands pastors to exegete the Scriptures for their hearers.

Later I noticed that the Amplified translation chose to render John 1:18 in that way.
Here is the Amplified classic rendering...


No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God,
Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him
[He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him
and He has made Him known].

Notice how it says that the Son *interprets* God for us? Why?

Because, God in nature and essence is totally foreign to our human frame of reference.
God as God is beyond our human comprehension.

Jesus, being both fully human and fully God?
He's God's perfect candidate to take what He fully knows about God
and to interpret for us (perfectly) God in human terms we can relate to!

Without Jesus having two natures in union?
We could never know God


grace and peace .............
Click to expand...
Excellent post not just because I agree with it but because of the way it was presented.
 
7xLightray said:
Facts/truth are backed up by scripture, not opinions.
I haven't seen a single scripture come out of you, yet. Which is what I require for facts/truth.
So. I'll wait until the bread comes, or at least bread crumbs.
Click to expand...
You claim to have read the bible, and saw no evidence of the "trinity". Discussion with you, then, is useless.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
You claim to have read the bible, and saw no evidence of the "trinity". Discussion with you, then, is useless.
Click to expand...
Sure. It would be one thing to be able to list passages that are seen to cause the trinity dispute and then provide alternative explanations. It is blindness not to see evidence of a trinity and therefore have no argument at all.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
You claim to have read the bible, and saw no evidence of the "trinity". Discussion with you, then, is useless.
Click to expand...
I never claimed I saw no evidence of the Trinity in the Bible. Definitely never claimed that!​
In fact, I believe Trinity is in the Bible, and was prophesied about, and proves God is master of all.
 
TedT said:
...except IF the LORD IS a reference to the Unity of three divine persons, this verse tells us that outside of the Unity, outside of the one true GOD, there was none other to help HIM.

The divine attributes do NOT just make a deity, it makes ONE deity who is alone among the supposed pantheon of GODs.
Click to expand...
is the person in John 1:3 "WHO MADE ALL THINGS", is also the same person in Isaiah 44:24 "WHO MADE ALL THINGS", yes or no?

101G.
 
GeneZ said:
This is one reason God must be a Trinity.
I will use the Son as an example....


No one has ever seen God. The one and only Son, who is himself God ​
and is at the Father’s side—he has revealed him. John 1:18​


That is a typical, and good, but generalized translation. One that needs some explaining
in regards to the exact meaning found in the original languages.

Back in the 90's I used to correspond with a pastor who taught exegetically.
In one letter he mentioned John 1:18, and that the Greek word used to say, that "he revealed him"
is a same Greek word that commands pastors to exegete the Scriptures for their hearers.

Later I noticed that the Amplified translation chose to render John 1:18 in that way.
Here is the Amplified classic rendering...


No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God,
Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him
[He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him
and He has made Him known].

Notice how it says that the Son *interprets* God for us? Why?

Because, God in nature and essence is totally foreign to our human frame of reference.
God as God is beyond our human comprehension.

Jesus, being both fully human and fully God?
He's God's perfect candidate to take what He fully knows about God
and to interpret for us (perfectly) God in human terms we can relate to!

Without Jesus having two natures in union?
We could never know God


grace and peace .............
Click to expand...
Nicely stated its where we get our English word exegete from.

Strong's Concordance
exégeomai: to show the way
Original Word: ἐξηγέομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: exégeomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ex-ayg-eh'-om-ahee)
Definition: to show the way
Usage: I lead, show the way; met: I unfold, narrate, declare.
HELPS Word-studies
1834 eksēgéomai (from 1537 /ek, "completely out of from" intensifying 2233 /hēgéomai, "to lead by showing priority") – properly, lead out completely (thoroughly bring forth), i.e. explain (narrate) in a way that clarifies what is uppermost (has priority).

[1834 (eksēgéomai) is the root of the English terms, "exegesis, exegete."

About ad 75, Josephus used 1834 (eksēgéomai) as a "technical term for the interpretation of the law as practiced by the rabbinate" (A. Schlatter, Der Evangelist Johannes, Stuttgart, 1948, p 36, who cites Josephus, Ant. 17.149; War 1.649; 2.162).]

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1834: ἐξηγέομαι

ἐξηγέομαι, ἐξηγοῦμαι; imperfect ἐξηγουμην; 1 aorist ἐξηγησαμην;
1. properly, to lead out, be leader, go before (Homer, et al.).

2. metaphorically, (cf. German ausführen) to draw out in narrative, unfold in teaching;

a. to recount, rehearse: (with the accusative of the thing and the dative of person, Acts 10:8); with the accusative of thing, Luke 24:35; Acts 21:19; without an accusative, followed by relative pronoun or adverb, ὅσα ἐποίησεν, Acts 15:12; καθώς, 14 (so in Greek writings from Herodotus down; the Sept. for סִפֵר, Judges 7:13, etc.).

b. to unfold, declare: John 1:18 (namely, the things relating to God; also used in Greek writings of the interpretation of things sacred and divine, oracles, dreams, etc.; cf. Meyer at the passage; Alberti, Observationes etc., p. 207f).

Englishman's Concordance

Luke 24:35 V-IIM/P-3P
GRK: καὶ αὐτοὶ ἐξηγοῦντο τὰ ἐν
NAS: They [began] to relate their experiences
KJV: they told what things [were done] in
INT: And they related the things on

John 1:18 V-AIM-3S
GRK: πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο
NAS: of the Father, He has explained [Him].
KJV: of the Father, he hath declared [him].
INT: Father he declared

Acts 10:8 V-APM-NMS
GRK: καὶ ἐξηγησάμενος ἅπαντα αὐτοῖς
NAS: and after he had explained everything
KJV: And when he had declared all [these] things
INT: and having related all things to them

Acts 15:12 V-PPM/P-GMP
GRK: καὶ Παύλου ἐξηγουμένων ὅσα ἐποίησεν
NAS: and Paul as they were relating what
KJV: and Paul, declaring what miracles
INT: and Paul relating what did

Acts 15:14 V-AIM-3S
GRK: Συμεὼν ἐξηγήσατο καθὼς πρῶτον
NAS: Simeon has related how God
KJV: Simeon hath declared how God
INT: Simon related how first

Acts 21:19 V-IIM/P-3S
GRK: ἀσπασάμενος αὐτοὺς ἐξηγεῖτο καθ' ἓν
NAS: After he had greeted them, he [began] to relate one by one
KJV: them, he declared particularly
INT: having greeted them he related by one

Strong's Greek 1834
6 Occurrences
 
I'm into the classical view of The Trinity As follows

In Trinitarian doctrine, God exists as three persons but is one being, having a single divine nature. The members of the Trinity are co-equal and co-eternal, one in essence, nature, power, action, and will.

Always have been always will be.
 
Blessed said:
I'm into the classical view of The Trinity As follows

In Trinitarian doctrine, God exists as three persons but is one being, having a single divine nature. The members of the Trinity are co-equal and co-eternal, one in essence, nature, power, action, and will.

Always have been always will be.
Click to expand...
Amen the only part of the statement I personally have an issue with is the "members". That word implies a membership. Instead of saying the members of the Trinity are co-equal I would rather say the Persons of the Trinity are co-equal or say the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are co-equal.

does that make sense ?
 
civic said:
Amen the only part of the statement I personally have an issue with is the "members". That word implies a membership. Instead of saying the members of the Trinity are co-equal I would rather say the Persons of the Trinity are co-equal or say the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are co-equal.

does that make sense ?
Click to expand...
Yes it makes sense, Persons carries far more clear understanding than members.

I looked it up and Persons does seem like the correct term.

'triad', from Latin: trinus 'threefold') is the central doctrine concerning the nature of God in most Christian churches, which defines one God existing in three coequal, coeternal, consubstantial divine persons: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ) and God the Holy Spirit, three distinct persons (hypostases) ...
 
civic said:
Nicely stated its where we get our English word exegete from.

Strong's Concordance
exégeomai: to show the way
Original Word: ἐξηγέομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: exégeomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ex-ayg-eh'-om-ahee)
Definition: to show the way
Usage: I lead, show the way; met: I unfold, narrate, declare.
HELPS Word-studies
1834 eksēgéomai (from 1537 /ek, "completely out of from" intensifying 2233 /hēgéomai, "to lead by showing priority") – properly, lead out completely (thoroughly bring forth), i.e. explain (narrate) in a way that clarifies what is uppermost (has priority).

[1834 (eksēgéomai) is the root of the English terms, "exegesis, exegete."

About ad 75, Josephus used 1834 (eksēgéomai) as a "technical term for the interpretation of the law as practiced by the rabbinate" (A. Schlatter, Der Evangelist Johannes, Stuttgart, 1948, p 36, who cites Josephus, Ant. 17.149; War 1.649; 2.162).]

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1834: ἐξηγέομαι

ἐξηγέομαι, ἐξηγοῦμαι; imperfect ἐξηγουμην; 1 aorist ἐξηγησαμην;
1. properly, to lead out, be leader, go before (Homer, et al.).

2. metaphorically, (cf. German ausführen) to draw out in narrative, unfold in teaching;

a. to recount, rehearse: (with the accusative of the thing and the dative of person, Acts 10:8); with the accusative of thing, Luke 24:35; Acts 21:19; without an accusative, followed by relative pronoun or adverb, ὅσα ἐποίησεν, Acts 15:12; καθώς, 14 (so in Greek writings from Herodotus down; the Sept. for סִפֵר, Judges 7:13, etc.).

b. to unfold, declare: John 1:18 (namely, the things relating to God; also used in Greek writings of the interpretation of things sacred and divine, oracles, dreams, etc.; cf. Meyer at the passage; Alberti, Observationes etc., p. 207f).

Englishman's Concordance

Luke 24:35 V-IIM/P-3P
GRK: καὶ αὐτοὶ ἐξηγοῦντο τὰ ἐν
NAS: They [began] to relate their experiences
KJV: they told what things [were done] in
INT: And they related the things on

John 1:18 V-AIM-3S
GRK: πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο
NAS: of the Father, He has explained [Him].
KJV: of the Father, he hath declared [him].
INT: Father he declared

Acts 10:8 V-APM-NMS
GRK: καὶ ἐξηγησάμενος ἅπαντα αὐτοῖς
NAS: and after he had explained everything
KJV: And when he had declared all [these] things
INT: and having related all things to them

Acts 15:12 V-PPM/P-GMP
GRK: καὶ Παύλου ἐξηγουμένων ὅσα ἐποίησεν
NAS: and Paul as they were relating what
KJV: and Paul, declaring what miracles
INT: and Paul relating what did

Acts 15:14 V-AIM-3S
GRK: Συμεὼν ἐξηγήσατο καθὼς πρῶτον
NAS: Simeon has related how God
KJV: Simeon hath declared how God
INT: Simon related how first

Acts 21:19 V-IIM/P-3S
GRK: ἀσπασάμενος αὐτοὺς ἐξηγεῖτο καθ' ἓν
NAS: After he had greeted them, he [began] to relate one by one
KJV: them, he declared particularly
INT: having greeted them he related by one

Strong's Greek 1834
6 Occurrences
Click to expand...
I learned that principle from Pastor Ralph G. Braun.
He taught from the Greek and I learned how valuable such an ability serves us to grow.
 

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