civic
Well-known member
Good for him
Your Views on The Trinity
- Thread starter Cyrus
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7xLightray
Member
No one here to give you help?
Same person? No!
But Jesus is the living word by/through whom God created all things. So, Jesus is also the builder of all things along side the Father Prov. 8 (for God spoke the commanded, and the word did what God spoke).
In Isaiah chapters 44-45 God, or LORD, refers to the Father, and Cyrus refers to Christ. It is about God the Father sending His savior.
Isaiah 44:24
Isa 44:24 Thus says the LORD (the Father), your Redeemer (through Christ, the Father working in His Son Isa 45:13-15; 2 Cor 5:18-19), who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD (the Father), who made all things (the Father by His eternal living spoken word Psalms 33:6, and then became flesh/body), who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself (the Father Person, by His spoken word that became flesh, His Son. So, in this way the Father and Son (who is the spoken word of God) are the builders of all creation, as in Prov. 8),Isa 44:25 who frustrates the signs of liars and makes fools of diviners, who turns wise men back and makes their knowledge foolish (those that make up their own doctrines and Gods, by their own imaginations, not able to back up their word Act 17:29; Isa 45:16),
Isa 44:26 who confirms the word of his servant and fulfills the counsel of his messengers, who says of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be inhabited,’ and of the cities of Judah, ‘They shall be built, and I will raise up their ruins’ (all through/by Christ);
Isa 44:27 who says to the deep, ‘Be dry; I will dry up your rivers’;
Isa 44:28 who (the Father) says of Cyrus (Christ Jesus His Son), ‘He (Christ) is my (the Father's) shepherd (Christ), and he (Christ) shall fulfill all my (the Father's) purpose’; saying of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be built,’ (by Christ) and of the temple, ‘Your foundation shall be laid (by Christ).’”
..but it continues on into chapter 45..
Isa 45:1 Thus says the LORD (the Father) to his anointed (Christ), to Cyrus (Christ), whose right hand I have grasped, to subdue nations before him and to loose the belts of kings (God who has put and will put all things under Christ's feet), to open doors before him that gates may not be closed (to let His captives free):
Isa 45:2 “I will go before you and level the exalted places (the Father through John the Baptist, who had the spirit from birth), I will break in pieces the doors of bronze (or brass H5154 same word as Isa 48:4) and cut through the bars of iron (hard hearts of men; Psalms 107 (noticing verse 16); Isaiah 48:1,4 "neck is an iron sinew..brow brass (H5154 same word as Isa 45:2)"; Jer. 6:28),
Isa 45:3 I will give you the treasures of darkness and the hoards in secret places (Psalm 107:10,14; Isaiah 9:2), that you may know that it is I, the LORD, the God of Israel, who call you by your name (Jesus Matt. 1:21; Luke 1:31).
Isa 45:4 For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen (for salvation Acts 5:30-31), I call you by your name, I name you (Jesus Matt. 1:21; Luke 1:31), though you do not know me.
Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you (Isa 11:1-5; Isa 49:2 Jesus received everything from God the Father, His father), though you do not know me,
Isa 45:6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other (true God, who is the Father).
Just keep reading to the end of the chapter 45 to see more.
Isa 45:16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols (false Gods).
101G
Well-known member
thanks for the help but it is no good. and here's why. #1, you said, "But Jesus is the living word by/through whom God created all things." First error. did you not read, he was Alone" and "by HIMSELF", so there was no one else to go through. for "ALONE" means, having no one else present and by having no one else present that destroys any other person he went through.
ERROR #2. you said, "So, Jesus is also the builder of all things along side the Father Prov. 8 (for God spoke the commanded, and the word did what God spoke)." God wors is anot another person.... it is his WISDOM. supportive scripture. Genesis 1:3 " And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." here "Light" is WISDOM of, of, of, God. not another person, the Hebrew word "LIGHT" is,
LIGHT: H216 אוֹר 'owr (ore) n-f.
1. illumination.
2. (concretely) luminary (in every sense, including lightning, happiness, etc.).
[from H215]
KJV: bright, clear, + day, light (-ning), morning, sun.
Root(s): H215
see definition #2 happiness and another word for "happiness" is A. delight, B, Rejoice. Proverbs 8:22 " The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." Proverbs 8:23 " I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was." Proverbs 8:24 " When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water." Proverbs 8:25 " Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:" Proverbs 8:26 " While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world." Proverbs 8:27 " When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:" Proverbs 8:28 " When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:" Proverbs 8:29 " When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:" Proverbs 8:30 " Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;" Proverbs 8:31 " Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men."
here WISDOM/LIGHT according to the definition, LIGHT: H216 אוֹר 'owr (ore) n-f., WISDOM here is personified as Feminine, just as the wisdom of, of, God is Alway defined as. and God is "LIGHT"/WISDOM, who is Spirit. Genesis 1:2 " And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
this is just too easy not to understand.
Redemer through Christ? was not God in, in, in, Christ, meaning in Flesh? 2 Corinthians 5:19 " To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."
question, "was God in JESUS or in Christ?"...... (smile)...... this is just too easy.
must we go on?
101G.
7xLightray
Member
Never said Jesus was a person when God spoke!
I have already said this, that not until Jesus was born man, did Jesus become a person. That's why there are not two God's, yet, Jesus is equal to God, because He is God's Son, and therefore Jesus existed in the form of God. I guess you forgot about, did not read, or just did not understand, Post #140; #94; #58 (this is a good one that explains it).
The spirit of God, is God's image Isa. 40:18-22, His image!
Through Christ, in Christ, yes, that was the Father in Christ, working through Christ! It does not bother me either word works. I was not trying to mislead you, recall, I was the one that gave you that verse. And it even uses both words..
2 Cor 5:18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation;
2 Cor 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
Do you understand Isa chapters 44-45, now, or is your heart still hard?
e v e
Well-known member
skip person ... christ a deity incarnated.
so what . the first commandment doesn't insist on that concept.
absurd. relationship does not require identity.
sure... as will be all Gods sons in eden paradise.
man was made in the image of Him, male,
and His spirit, female.
so??
e v e
Well-known member
7xLightray
Member
So,
Where's the bread? All I see is philosophy.
What do I have to do with philosophy?
I'm starving here, where's the bread?
Where's the bread? All I see is philosophy.
What do I have to do with philosophy?
I'm starving here, where's the bread?
101G
Well-known member
did you not say THROUGH HIM?
another ERROR, flesh is born, not the Spirit.
ERROR, the Lord Jesus was always a person. never started nor stopped.
another ERROR, not equal "TO", but EQUAL "WITH", indicating the same one person in the ECHAD as the diversity, meaning the same one person in ordinal designation of FIRST and LAST.
this is just too easy not to understand.......
the term "Son" here is not biological in nature, son identifies character/the characteristics of God "EQUALLY SHARED in flesh. Oh my...
must we go on in correction?
101G.
7xLightray
Member
This is what I said, "But Jesus is the living word by/through whom God created all things.", if this was the one you were referring to.
Lets do this one at a time (cause I can see from your replies you are not grasping what I am saying, and it is straightforward, as God reveled Himself in/through creation, and His word). And if you do not understand this, then why pile more onto you. So, lets tackle them one at a time. It seems you are struggling with this one, Jesus did not become a person until he was born man, and keep coming back to it. So, lets start with that one. If one does not include, or receive, everything another is saying, then one can misinterpret another, correct?
Yes, by/through His word the Father created all things. And I also said, both, that Jesus was not a person at the time of creation, and, not until He was born man did He become a person! In posts #58; #94; #140; #167..
From post #58: Jesus existed in the form of God, He was before all creation, and all of creation was made by Him (which was the word that came forth out of God's mouth, and whatever is before creation is God). God's word is eternal, and living, that comes forth out of the eternal living God. So, he is first before anything created, but not that He was a person at this time. Grass may not be a person, but it is living. And that eternal living word became flesh, and the person, who grew in wisdom.
From post #94: I believe there is only one God person in Genesis 1, which is the Father.
From post #140: In beginning the word (God's eternal living word, which came forth out of God's mouth, which would become the flesh/body of Jesus, real flesh/body, but not made of the earth, but from heaven) was with God (the Father person, who was the only person at this time. God's word is living, but not another person, at this time, anyway) before God created anything. Jesus was not known, but foreknown before the foundations of the world, as both verses speak in Isa 45:4, 5 "though thou hast not known me" showing that Jesus (the person) did not know God at this time (not referring to the "spirit" of Christ, thought (sorry, should have been "though"), just the person who would be born man)..It was God and His spoke word that was with Him..God created everything by His spoken word. Which word became the flesh/body of Jesus, that produced the person Jesus, that grew in wisdom..because Jesus is the spoken word that God the Father used to create all things..So, in beginning was the only true God the Father, who is one person, Jesus became a person when he became man.
From post #167: In the beginning there was only one person (person #1), who sent His son (person #2) into the world, and the son became a person (person #2) at that time (before this, He was not a person).
And a person is responsible for everything they say and do. Therefore it is not a contradiction that person #2 is not person #1 that sent, because person #2 is not responsible for the words person #1 spoke.
In fact person #2 was the word that person #1 spoke.
How else can I explain God's spoke word, that came out of His mouth, was not a person at the time of creation, not until Jesus was born man! I am speaking straightforward!
Adam and Eve were created in the image of God (were you not able to solve post #94 of Adam and Eve?). Adam and Eve explain God's image. Isaiah 40:18-22 is saying the spirit of God is His image, and it also says, God explained His image in Genesis!!
Only respond to Jesus being a person at creation, and take the rest as me only helping you to understand my position.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
SO then we agree God is ONE - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Whatever that means.
101G
Well-known member
that is your biggest mistake. by/through, listen, 101G by scripture, will make it plain as day for you to to one more to, to understand the "ECHAD" of God. QUESTION, is this one "person" or two? Isaiah 41:4 " Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."
is this two separate and distinct persons, yes or no? but before you answer, 101G will male it clearer for you... Revelation 1:11 " Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."
is either scripture saying that this is two persons.... yes or no?
101G.
101G
Well-known member
ok, then 101G ask you, is this the Father WHO MADE ALL THINGS? John 1:3 " All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
101G
7xLightray
Member
You're just being manipulative, you know I am not saying I agreeing with the Trinity; that could not have come across any clearer.
What you don't know, is what I am saying, so it would seem.
7xLightray
Member
Lets start at the beginning and clear this up. How do you say God created everything? By, or through, His spoke word? Or, some other way? Cause your seemingly rejection of God creating evrything by His spoken word, His power, is puzzling. How do you say God created?
7xLightray
Member
I already explained this, did I not.
No! Jn 1:3 is speaking about the word of God that He spoke to create all things. God did not speak a person, He spoke words! Which word would become the man Jesus the Christ! And because Jesus is that word that became flesh, then Jesus was that word that created all things!
God created all things by/through His word, spoken word, did He not??
God created all things by/through His word, spoken word, did He not??
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
You said: "I believe Trinity is in the Bible, and was prophesied about, and proves God is master of all." Seems pretty clear that you're a "trinitarian".
101G
Well-known member
at the beginning, just as you said, is only ONE PERSON. and God "SAID". Genesis 1:1 " In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Genesis 1:2 " And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." Genesis 1:3 " And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
he "SAID" .... "BY" himself. Oh how clear can one get. there is no mystery. for he was "ALONE" and BY, BY, BY, BY, himself. how plain can one Get. he, he, he, SPOKE and it was done.
there was no second person or third. just as the scriptures said, he was "ALONE" and BY... himself. if one would look up the word "Through", according to the Noah Webster 1828 dictionary is is also rendered "BY" just as in Isaiah 44:24 "BY" HIMSELF.
101G
7xLightray
Member
Only if you put on blinders, and ignore every single other thing I said!
And when one refuses to receive parts of what another says, then one will misunderstand, and misquote, what the other is saying. This is your sin. Knowingly refusing to understand another.
101G
Well-known member
@7xLightray, did you look up the word, "by" in the Noah Webster 1828 dictionary, and please note the third definition.
101G.
101G.
