makesends
Well-known member
OT: I suppose most drivers could be charged with "wreckless" driving.
(Sorry, couldn't help it. Don't put me on 'ignore')
We choose. We chose. You choose. You chose. You will choose.
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
(Sorry, couldn't help it. Don't put me on 'ignore')
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
For the benefit of the spelling and grammar challenged, the word is reckless. Wreckless would mean it's not a wreck (a wreck is something disabled or in a state of ruin or dilapidation). And I agree that what Spurgeon said is not a wreck, therefore it is wreckless.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
If the Gospel is something that requires a preacher with no exception, then there are going to be a lot of angry people in hell who could justly say they could have been saved but are suffering in hell because no preacher reached them. That also makes God a liar when he said "All the Father gives me will come to me."
Again, I am not discouraging the act of obedience in speaking the Gospel. Just sayin'.
Again, I am not discouraging the act of obedience in speaking the Gospel. Just sayin'.
civic
Well-known member
That is just speculation on your part with no stats or experience to substantiate the assertion.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I don't see your issue. You believe the Gospel will find the elect. The issue is with your use of what Spurgeon once said. Many Calvinists believe that God will send the Gospel to the elect. I disagree but my issue is what Spurgeon said.
This requires your supposition to be true. Your supposition of what this means is not accurate.
I understand your position. Contrary to the obedience of men, you believe all the elect will be saved. I disagree.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I've always had issues with typing too fast and trying to correct later. You know this. It is why you said "for the benefit of the spelling and grammar challenged". If that distracts from what I've said then the real problem isn't mine. Not that it really matters and certainly not something I expect many to accept.... but I'm generally always busy. I try to do too much at one time. See it as an excuse or not. I'm "reckless" myself. I never tried to be different than Spurgeon, I even admitted I was like him.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
I'd give you stats and experience, but forgive me; I don't know anyone in deepest darkest Africa to testify that he/she had a special revelation.
His point stands, though. "All the Father gives me will come to me". The word "all" is there qualified. All of whom? All the Father gives me. What will they do? Come to Him. You free-willers like logic, so logically, they will come whether or not a preacher goes to them.
civic
Well-known member
All those did come past tense and fulfilled with the disciples and those who followed Him while He was walking this earth.
He will lose none the Father HAS GIVEN ME- past tense. And raise THEM up on the last day.
context is King.
Behold
Well-known member
Its true that God chooses to give Salvation to All who choose to believe in Jesus.
This choosing that the unbeliever does... is called "Believing". Its literally to repent of unbelief and turn to Faith in Christ, as a Choice.
Or as Jesus said..>"All that BELIEVE, in me.. (notice the ALL).... I give unto (the Believer) eternal life and you shall never go to Hell (perish)".
Believing is not something That God does for you.
its something that God accepts, as "Faith", and that's your choice.
See, if Faith was caused by God, then it would not be Faith and it would not be Believing and it would not be a choice to make.
God does not pre-destine you to be forced to believe, as Calvin's cult teaches.
No..
God predestines you to be CONFORMED, after you are born again, into the Image of Christ".
makesends
Well-known member
I agree with the first sentence. The second, I don't follow your reasoning.
But concerning that first, Romans 1 leaves them without excuse —regardless. THEY, of their own will, rejected God, even if there was no gospel —as we know it— preached.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
I'm referring to what Spurgeon said about "All the Father gives me shall come to me". In short, he hypothesized, what if the Father gives someone to Jesus who is out of reach of any preacher? God will send a preacher or even give that person a special revelation of the Gospel so that his promise should be fulfilled.
Jesus revealed Himself to Paul by special revelation, so I don't consider it out of the question. I honestly don't know how God works in every case. But my main point is that when Jesus says "All the Father gives me shall come to me", I take that as an unbreakable promise that God can certainly make true without man's help if need be.
makesends
Well-known member
I agree completely. To hypothesize otherwise is to invent a bogus situation.
Repent and receive are used with respect to salvation. These two words take the deliberate act of human will to act positively upon the Gospel of Christ that is presented. And isn't that really your contention; that human will of choosing is not a factor for his salvation?
Does God repent or receive for a person? Or does God expect the person to willingly repent and receive salvation by trusting in Jesus Christ our Lord?
Doesn't repentance-the changing of mind take the human will to choose between devotion to God over sin, between receiving Jesus Christ over rejecting Him?
At the end of it all, it is God who does everything necessary to save a person except repent and believe. Man must repent and receive Jesus Christ by faith.
God Bless
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Rockson
Well-known member
The ironic thing is you should maybe consider that you're taking away the glory and the praise one would give to the character of God who offers his LOVE and salvation to all. Such is what Calvinistic thinking does.
Thank you for clarifying.
One is not born again, receiving the new life of God's Spirit, until that one has repented and believed first. The Spirit of the Lord is only in those who have received and believed.
Where in the bible does it say an unbeliever is given a new life of the Spirit?
So you're saying God is the one who repents and believes for you. That is not in the bible either.
This is not biblical: An unrepentant and unbelieving person is given the new life of the Spirit who repents and believes for the man.
This is biblical: "At the end of it all, it is God who does everything necessary to save a person except repent and believe. Man must repent and receive Jesus Christ by faith."
You argue that one is regenerated first, but the biblical record proves that to be false. The biblical record shows that God provides all the necessary grace for one to repent and believe. The act of human will is involved prior to receiving the forgiveness of sins and the new life of the Spirit.
If you want to discredit God by altering His salvation of man because to you it is not good enough, be my guest. But, God requires man to humble himself and come to Him for one's salvation; repenting of rebellion and humbly coming to God in belief to be forgiven and filled with His Spirit.
God Bless
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Where does faith come from? "faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ".
Faith comes first then the forgiveness of sins and the new life.
"And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him"
How was anyone born again prior to the glorification of our Lord Jesus Christ?
Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. (Joh 7:38-39)
This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. (Act 2:32-33)
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Act 2:38)
Knowing the Spirit of the Lord had not been given yet to believers of God, then how did one before the advent of Christ please God being in an unregenerate state?
The biblical answer to pleasng God is "by faith".
God Bless
makesends
Well-known member
Explain
makesends
Well-known member
Hard for me to tell if a person is serious or not, when they paraphrase this badly. Hard for me to take a person seriously when what they sound like is mocking rather than reason.
The Spirit of God does not repent and believe for the man. The Spirit of God takes up residence, at God's own timing, in the creature to whom God has chosen before the foundation of the world to give mercy. This transforms the person from death to life, so it is called being "born from above", or 'born again'; in theological terms, 'regeneration'.
