Salvation is according to the will of God
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Selah
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… which would be everyone who believes in Christ, the Elect—everyone called by His name.
Isaiah 43:5-7 (NKJV) 5 Fear not, for I [am] with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, And gather you from the west; 6 I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’ And to the south, ‘Do not keep them back!’ Bring My sons from afar, And My daughters from the ends of the earth-- 7 Everyone who is called by My name, Whom I have created for My glory; I have formed him, yes, I have made him.”
There you go again avoiding posting the context so it may be ascertained whether you actually address anything
The context shows Doug was correct.
The audience here is national Israel.
Isaiah 43:1–10 (KJV 1900) — 1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, And he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine. 2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: When thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; Neither shall the flame kindle upon thee. 3 For I am the LORD thy God, The Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee. 4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, Thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: Therefore will I give men for thee, And people for thy life. 5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, And gather thee from the west; 6 I will say to the north, Give up; And to the south, Keep not back: Bring my sons from far, And my daughters from the ends of the earth; 7 Even every one that is called by my name: For I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. 8 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, And the deaf that have ears. 9 Let all the nations be gathered together, And let the people be assembled: Who among them can declare this, And shew us former things? Let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: Or let them hear, and say, It is truth. 10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, And my servant whom I have chosen: That ye may know and believe me, And understand that I am he: Before me there was no God formed, Neither shall there be after me.
Now will you actually address the issue that it is national Israel that is in view in the passage above?
brightfame52
Active Member
That doesnt matter, at the time the Church was in national israel, the scripture is only to the church
The context shows Doug was correct.
The audience here is national Israel.
The true church did not consist of all of national Israel
Isaiah 43:1–10 (KJV 1900) — 1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, And he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine. 2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: When thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; Neither shall the flame kindle upon thee. 3 For I am the LORD thy God, The Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee. 4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, Thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: Therefore will I give men for thee, And people for thy life. 5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, And gather thee from the west; 6 I will say to the north, Give up; And to the south, Keep not back: Bring my sons from far, And my daughters from the ends of the earth; 7 Even every one that is called by my name: For I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. 8 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, And the deaf that have ears. 9 Let all the nations be gathered together, And let the people be assembled: Who among them can declare this, And shew us former things? Let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: Or let them hear, and say, It is truth. 10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, And my servant whom I have chosen: That ye may know and believe me, And understand that I am he: Before me there was no God formed, Neither shall there be after me.
Now will you actually address the issue that it is national Israel that is in view in the passage above?
brightfame52
Active Member
That doesnt matter, at the time the Church was in national israel, the scripture is only to the church
But all of national Israel were not of the true church
quit your running
The context shows Doug was correct.
The audience here is national Israel.
The true church did not consist of all of national Israel
Isaiah 43:1–10 (KJV 1900) — 1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, And he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine. 2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: When thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; Neither shall the flame kindle upon thee. 3 For I am the LORD thy God, The Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee. 4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, Thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: Therefore will I give men for thee, And people for thy life. 5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, And gather thee from the west; 6 I will say to the north, Give up; And to the south, Keep not back: Bring my sons from far, And my daughters from the ends of the earth; 7 Even every one that is called by my name: For I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. 8 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, And the deaf that have ears. 9 Let all the nations be gathered together, And let the people be assembled: Who among them can declare this, And shew us former things? Let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: Or let them hear, and say, It is truth. 10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, And my servant whom I have chosen: That ye may know and believe me, And understand that I am he: Before me there was no God formed, Neither shall there be after me.
Now will you actually address the issue that it is national Israel that is in view in the passage above?
brightfame52
Active Member
In Preaching Salvation by Grace, or the Gospel of Gods Grace it must be made known the origin of a saved persons Salvation. Its origin is the Purpose and Grace given them in Christ Jesus b4 the world began 2 Tim 1:9
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Notice it states "not according to our works" that means no conditions performed by us, for we didnt exist save in the Mind and Purpose of God in Christ our Mediator. This is the Testimony of the Gospel, be not ashamed of it !
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Notice it states "not according to our works" that means no conditions performed by us, for we didnt exist save in the Mind and Purpose of God in Christ our Mediator. This is the Testimony of the Gospel, be not ashamed of it !
brightfame52
Active Member
Now here is Gospel Truth, Salvation by Gods own Purpose and Grace to a Elect People,
The late Don Fortner wrote:
The late Don Fortner wrote:
That is indeed true. Salvation is by God's own Purpose and Grace to an Elect People. That is not at issue. The issue is who are the Elect People, that is, who does God choose. Neither you nor Don Fortner, and especially not Calvinism/Reformed Theology, get that one right. You all insist that election is totally independent of the one being chosen. That is false. The first recorded words of God in this regard are found in Genesis 4:7 with God speaking to Cain. He says to Cain, "If you do well, will you not be accepted?" That is the consistent message throughout God's special revelation, His word, the Bible.
brightfame52
Active Member
God's word.
@Jim @brightfame52
Don and I are both from Winston-Salem, N.C., and went to the same Hi School together same years. He went on to Piedmont Bible college and I served the flesh for seven plus years more. He was very religious that's all I remember about Don. I later went to hear him preach in Hendersonville, N.C. about ten years or so before he died. It was nice to see again after all those years.
Rather than a response determined by God, He calls on men to make a choice.
Jeremiah 4:4 (LEB) — 4 Circumcise yourselves to Yahweh, and remove the foreskins of your hearts, men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, lest my wrath goes forth like the fire and burns, and there is no one who extinguishes it, because of the evil of your deeds.”
Jeremiah 18:7–10 (LEB) — 7 One moment I speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom, to uproot, and to tear down, and to destroy it. 8 But if that nation turns back from its evil that I have threatened against it, then I will relent concerning the disaster that I planned to do to it. 9 And the next moment I speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom, to build, and to plant it. 10 But if it does evil in my sight, to not listen to my voice, then I will relent concerning the good that I said I would do to it.
Ezekiel 18:21–24 (LEB) — 21 But if the wicked returns from all of his sins that he has done and he keeps all of my statutes and he does justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die! 22 All of his transgressions that he committed will not be remembered against him. Through his righteousness that he has done he shall live. 23 Have I delight by any means in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord Yahweh, and not at his turning from his way, so that he lives? 24 And when the righteous turns from his righteousness, so that he does injustice, and does all of the detestable things that the wicked do, then will he live because of all of his righteousness that he did? Those things will not be remembered because of his infidelity that he displayed, and because of his sin that he committed. Through them he shall die.
Ezekiel 18:30–32 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you. 31 Throw away from yourselves all of your transgressions that you committed, and make for yourselves a new heart and new spirit, and so why will you die, house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “And so repent and live!”
Ezekiel 33:13–15 (LEB) — 13 When I say to the righteous, ‘Certainly he will live,’ and he trusted in his righteousness, and he turns and he does injustice, all of his righteousness will not be remembered, and because of his injustice that he did, because of it he will die. 14 And when I say to the wicked, ‘Certainly you will die,’ but he returns from his sin and he does justice and righteousness— 15 for example, the wicked returns a pledge for a loan, he restores stolen property, he goes in the statutes of life so as not to do injustice—certainly he will live; he will not die.
Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring,
Joshua 24:15 (LEB) — 15 But if it is bad in your eyes to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you want to serve, whether it is the gods that your ancestors served beyond the river, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my household, we will serve Yahweh.”
Luke 13:24 (LEB) — 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able to,
Deuteronomy 4:29–32 (LEB) — 29 But from there you shall seek Yahweh your God and will find him, if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul. 30 In your distress when all these things have found you in the latter days, then you will return to Yahweh your God, and you will listen to his voice. 31 For Yahweh your God is a compassionate God; he will not abandon you, and he will not destroy you, and he will not forget the covenant of your ancestors that he swore to them. 32 “Yes, ask, please, about former days that preceded you from the day that God created humankind on the earth; ask even from one end of the heaven up to the other end of heaven whether anything ever happened like this great thing or whether anything like it was ever heard.
Deuteronomy 5:28–33 (LEB) — 28 “And Yahweh heard the sound of your words when you spoke to me, and Yahweh said to me, ‘I have heard the sound of the words of this people that they have spoken to you; they are right with respect to all that they have spoken. 29 If only they had such a mind’; that is, to fear me and to keep all my commandments at all times, so that it will go well for them and for their children forever. 30 Go! Say to them, “Return to your tents.” 31 But you stand here with me, and let me tell you all of the commandments and the rules and the regulations that you shall teach them, so that they may do them in the land that I am giving to them to take possession of it.’ 32 “So you must be careful to do just as Yahweh your God commanded you; you shall not turn to the right or to the left. 33 In exactly the path that Yahweh your God has commanded, you must go, so that you may live and it will go well for you and you may live long in the land that you will take possession of.”
Deuteronomy 11:26–28 (LEB) — 26 “See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: 27 the blessing, if you listen to the commandments of Yahweh your God that I am commanding you today, 28 and the curse, if you do not listen to the commandments of Yahweh your God, but rather you turn from the way that I am commanding you today to go after other gods that you have not known.
Jeremiah 18:7–12 (LEB) — 7 One moment I speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom, to uproot, and to tear down, and to destroy it. 8 But if that nation turns back from its evil that I have threatened against it, then I will relent concerning the disaster that I planned to do to it. 9 And the next moment I speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom, to build, and to plant it. 10 But if it does evil in my sight, to not listen to my voice, then I will relent concerning the good that I said I would do to it. 11 “So now then, say, please, to the people of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, ‘Thus says Yahweh, “Look, I am preparing evil against you, and I am planning a plan against you. Please turn back, each one from his evil way, and walk rightly in your ways and your deeds.” ’ 12 But they will say, ‘It is hopeless, for we will go after our own plans, and each one of us will act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.’
Jeremiah 36:2–4 (LEB) — 2 “Take for yourself a scroll and you must write on it all the words that I have spoken to you against Israel, and against Judah, and against all the nations, from the day that I spoke to you, from the days of Josiah, and until this day. 3 Perhaps when the house of Judah hears all the disasters that I am planning to do to them, then they may turn back each one from his evil way, and I will forgive their guilt and their sin.” 4 Then Jeremiah called Baruch the son of Neriah, and Baruch wrote from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of Yahweh that he had spoken to him on a scroll.
Isaiah 1:15–21 (LEB) — 15 And when you stretch out your hands, I will hide my eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I will not be listening. Your hands are full of blood. 16 Wash! Make yourselves clean! Remove the evil of your doings from before my eyes! Cease to do evil! 17 Learn to do good! Seek justice! Rescue the oppressed! Defend the orphan! Plead for the widow! 18 “Come now, and let us argue,” says Yahweh. “Even though your sins are like scarlet, they will be white like snow; even though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool. 19 If you are willing and you are obedient, you shall eat the good of the land. 20 But if you refuse and you rebel, you shall be devoured by the sword. For the mouth of Yahweh has spoken.” 21 How has a faithful city become like a whore? Full of justice, righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers.
brightfame52
Active Member
Lol, so you expect me to exegete all those scriptures ? You will be waiting for a long time
brightfame52
Active Member
False teaching. You are making mans faith to be a condition, correct? And everyone isn't invited to believe. Believing is a imperative, a command not a invitation. Those whom Christ didn't die for, have no right to believe in Jesus because they are condemned by the law, married to it.
Behold
Active Member
God forgives any sinner, all their sin, through The Cross of Christ......one believer at a time.
And noone is chosen before they are born, to NOT be able to trust in Christ, as Lying Hyper Calvinism Teaches.
brightfame52
Active Member
Yeah you teaching conditions, thats works all day, every day
TibiasDad
Active Member
Hyperbole is not convincing! Evidence is!
Is not “faith” a necessary thing? If you do not have faith you will not be saved. Therefore, faith is a condition of being saved.
Your “man’s faith” is inserting your preconceived notions into the equation.
Everyone who hears the gospel is invited. Without the gospel there is no opportunity to be invited.
An imperative is not a command, it is a necessity.
Prove it! You keep making propositions without supporting evidence to establish it. Anyone to whom the gospel is preached has the right, the opportunity and the potential for believing. That’s why we are to “go into all the world” to as many people as possible- because they can be saved!
Doug
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