praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I would like to know what good pleasure means to you.
I do agree that God does as He pleases. He was gracious to those that drown. That graciousness benefited them while it lasted.
We choose. We chose. You choose. You chose. You will choose.
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
I do agree that God does as He pleases. He was gracious to those that drown. That graciousness benefited them while it lasted.
makesends
Well-known member
For example...?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I thought it was self explanatory. There is no meaningfulness to will if Grace is Irresistible.
makesends
Well-known member
How do you know that?
makesends
Well-known member
Jr. Lol, there is a difference.
civic
Well-known member
You are right- oops. Good catch.
civic
Well-known member
doesn’t fall far from the 
tree. A real chip off the old block 
Affinity
Member
You got that right.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
The two examples are not antithetical to each other. Kings, as the head authority of their countries, are especially under God’s control to accomplish what he wants with them. Mary choosing to listen to Jesus doesn’t mean that God can’t or doesn’t take providential control of his actions or visa versa. The circumstances of the two situations are completely different: One is a government authority and one is a woman choosing to shirk her duties in the kitchen to learn from Jesus.[Proverbs 21:1 NKJV] The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, Like the rivers of water; He turns it wherever He wishes.
(Is Mary's heart any stronger?)
God tells us that he has determined the extent of the reigns and size of nations (Acts 17:24-27) but Jesus also said to allow even children to come to him to learn, and thus Jesus applauds Mary for making that choice.
Doug
Diserner
Well-known member
There's another way to take this verse with Hebrew grammar. There is no word corresponding to "is" there.
One could read it, "Like streams of water is the king's heart in the hand of the Lord—he turns it wherever he wishes it."
That is, when the king's heart is in the hand the Lord, that is when his heart is turned.
[Like] channels of water, is the heart of a king, in the hand of Yahweh,--whithersoever he will, he turneth it. (Prov. 21:1 ROT)
TibiasDad
Well-known member
makesends
Well-known member
1. No. God determined you to do it, so you chose to do that.
2. Again, no. Choice is real, and you do choose.
3. As a matter of fact, only because God has determined it, is your choice real.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
If God has determined freedom of choice, then God has not determined what we choose.
Doug
Diserner
Well-known member
Get outta here with your man's logic and philosophy.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Figures. Thanks for the clarification. Sr. didn't say that.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Whatever God wills he does so according to his good pleasure.
This is a perfect example of how far one can stretch Scripture to accommodate the notion that "A loving God would never..."
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
That isn't describing what good pleasure means to you. It is nothing more than an excuse for choices you can't theological explain. It is essential stating that I know God's will...just trust me. Don't pay attention.
How am I stretching? They experienced the Grace of God. Do you deny that the goodness of God leads us to repentance?
makesends
Well-known member
If that is your definition of freedom of choice, then God has not determined freedom of choice.
