Thomas... My Lord and my God

[Pancho Frijoles]

God alone is the proper recipient of prayer.

Too bad your heresy can't accept what the Bible teaches.

Too bad your fantasy can’t accept what Jesus, who you call “Lord”, teaches.
Listen to Him and do as He did.

SUMMARY FOR OUR READERS

1. Jesus prayed to God, His Father, as any other Israelite.
2. Jesus taught us to pray to God, Our Father in Heaven.
3. Peter continued to pray to the God of Abraham at the Temple, as any other Israelite.
4. Paul prayed regularly to God, Our Father, as any other Israelite.
5. The Book of Revelation presents the prayers of the saints as ascending to God, The God of Jesus.
6. Jesus said that, if we asked Him things, he would hear us
7. There are very few instances in the Bible (perhaps three) in which Christians ask things to Jesus.
8. Jesus is said to be a Mediator between God and man, and in such role, He is called “Man”.
9. A mediator may be a proper recipient of prayer. That is natural and does not imply a logical fallacy.
10. God cannot be a mediator…otherwise it would imply a logical fallacy.

Anyone accepting Jesus as Lord is obliged to follow his teachings and example.
Anyone accepting Jesus as Lord should submit his will to the will of He who Jesus called “My God”.

 

[Fred]

I have no clue why you think Jesus has to be God because we can pray to him.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-trinity-made-easy.87/page-4#post-3446

 

[Fred]

1. Jesus said that, if we asked Him things, he would hear us

Which proves Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer.

See the link in post 202.

 

[Peterlag]

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-trinity-made-easy.87/page-4#post-3446

The Old Testament is referring to God in the above link. These different administrations are suited to different times because God has spoken everything to its proper time and administration. We will never understand the truth of God’s Word if we read into one administration what God tells us belongs to another administration. If we believe what God said in one administration and carry it into another administration that was on a different principle, we will be taking what is true for one time, and using it to contradict what is also true for another time. When we mix them all together, by jumbling the whole Bible together: Law, Gospel, Grace, Judgment, Glory, Jew, Gentile, and the Church of God, we will be very confused in our understanding of the truth of God’s Word.

What is written directly to the Jews, belongs to and is for the Jews. What is written directly to the Gentiles, belongs to and is for the Gentiles. What is written directly to the Church of God, belongs to and is for the Church of God. What does God mean when He tells us that the visions shown to Isaiah was concerning Judah and Jerusalem? It was not addressed to us or written concerning us, but it was addressed to and concerning Judah and Jerusalem. It would be dishonest for the Church of God to interpret to the Church of God what God said concerns Israel.

 

[Peterlag]

Okay. So Gen 32:22-32 says nothing toward your view. So you flop again. The angel is about Jacob fighting the manifestation of God. The angel or man Jacob fought was shown to be the struggle with God (gen 32:28). So it is hard to see why you use this in contraversion of your broad view.

We learn from Hosea 12:4 that the “man” was an angel.

Hosea 12:4
Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;

 

[Fred]

The Old Testament is referring to God in the above link.

And Jesus quotes it in the New Testament (Luke 4:8).

In fact, that there is one Lord (YHWH) (Deut. 6:4) is inseparably linked with the worship that He ALONE is to receive (Deut. 6:13).

If others besides YHWH can be properly prayed to then there can be more than 1 YHWH.

 

[Fred]

not a single verse that says Jesus was prayed to.

Two Unitarians here even disagree with your false position that Jesus isn't to be prayed to.

 

[Runningman]

The ones you couldn't refute.

104 pages of none being able to refute my OP is an embarrassment. The OP still stands. People can argue about praying to Jesus if they wish, but the point of the OP was that there are no teachings or instructions about praying to Jesus in the Bible. That is not something God, Jesus, or any of the apostles told anyone to do. Case closed.

 

[Fred]

104 pages of none being able to refute my OP is an embarrassment. The OP still stands. People can argue about praying to Jesus if they wish, but the point of the OP was that there are no teachings or instructions about praying to Jesus in the Bible. That is not something God, Jesus, or any of the apostles told anyone to do. Case closed.

See post 207.

It's just you and your heresy embracing one another.

Pathetic.

 

[Runningman]

See post 207.

It's just you and your heresy embracing one another.

Pathetic.

There are specific instructions on who to pray to and how to pray in Matthew 6:6,9 that teach people how to pray to the Father. That's it. There are no teachings about "When you pray, pray to Jesus." Nothing like that exists in the Bible. It's true that some Unitarians do pray to Jesus and I will not fault them, but on the matter of instruction there is no explicit command or teaching to pray to Jesus.

 

[Fred]

There are specific instructions on who to pray to and how to pray in Matthew 6:6,9 that teach people how to pray to the Father. That's it. There are no teachings about "When you pray, pray to Jesus." Nothing like that exists in the Bible. It's true that some Unitarians do pray to Jesus and I will not fault them, but on the matter of instruction there is no explicit command or teaching to pray to Jesus.

See post 209.

 

[Runningman]

See post 209.

Already looked at it and read most of that entire thread. I've also already read the Bible and thoroughly researched this topic before posting it. @Peterlag I know you have no issue about praying to Jesus, but if you ever want to put the trins in a corner, just point out the fact there are no teachings about praying to Jesus in the bible and watch them chase their tails trying to prove it.

 

[Fred]

Already looked at it

Which proves you didn't understand it.

Next time read it and think at the same time.

 

[Runningman]

Which proves you didn't understand it.

Next time read it and think at the same time.

This board got humbled. There is not a single teaching or instruction on praying to Jesus.

 

[Fred]

This board got humbled. T

No, you did.

And it is great to see.

 

[Fred]

Jesus is not THE proper recipient, but A proper recipient.
You can pray to Him, He will listen to you.

Why don't you debate your fellow Unitarian @Runningman about this topic (praying to Jesus).
He thinks it is a big no-no.

This way neither one of you could legitimately accuse the other of Trinitarian bias.

Step up!

 

[Runningman]

No, you did.

And it is great to see.

Not at all. I want to open dozens of threads about how the Bible teaches nothing about praying to Jesus, but it's still too soon. In time I will. If anything I am emboldened.

 

[Fred]

I think I can find Scripture that tells us we can pray to Jesus.

See post 216.
The same offer is applied to you.

Step up!

 

[Fred]

Not at all. I want to open dozens of threads about how the Bible teaches nothing about praying to Jesus, but it's still too soon. In time I will. If anything I am emboldened.

Two Unitarians here totally disagree with your absurdity.

This great to see.

 

[Fred]

I want to open dozens of threads about how the Bible teaches nothing about praying to Jesus

Zero proof for such an outlandish assertion.