You shall worship the Lord you God only.

[Studyman]

Yes, we always tried to what the word of God teaches, and I know the best work we can, are filthy rags before God.

Again, I was taught just as you were, by the religions of this world, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that God's Righteousness is Righteous, until I "Yield myself" to it, or as the rebellious Jews refused to do, "Submit myself" to His Righteousness. Then His Righteousness becomes a Filthy Rag to God. Can you not see the foolishness of such a teaching? And certainly God never ever promoted such a thing. But when in times past I walked according to the course of this world, I too, believed the same as you, that if I submit myself to God's Righteousness, it becomes a filthy rag to God. My Brother, lets look at the God Inspired Words of Isaiah together and see if we were taught the truth, or a deception about God's righteousness.

Is. 64:5 Thou "meetest him" that rejoiceth and "worketh righteousness", "those that remember thee" "in "thy" ways":

Well this doesn't look like a bad thing. Are we not told throughout the entire Bible, including the very Word's of Jesus Himself, to "Work Righteousness" and to remember to "Live By" God's Ways, not our own?

Listen to the Spirit of Christ in David.

Ps. 15:1 Who shall abide in thy tabernacle? "who" shall dwell in thy holy hill? 2 He that walketh uprightly, and "worketh righteousness", and speaketh the truth in his heart.

And to the Spirit of Christ in Peter;

Acts 10: 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and "worketh righteousness", is accepted with him.

And from the Spirit of Christ in John:

1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth (worketh) righteousness "is righteous", even as he (Jesus) "is righteous".

But what happened to the Jews? Did they "work God's Righteousness"? Or did they refuse to submit to God's Righteousness and went about establishing their own Righteousness?

Lets see what Isaiah actually said.

behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those (God's Righteousness) is continuance, and we shall be saved.

So did they repent? Did they "turn to God"?

Is. 64: 6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all "our" righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. 7 And there is none "that calleth upon thy name", that stirreth up himself "to take hold of thee": for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of "our iniquities".

So you see Capbook. God is not telling you that all His Righteousness are as "Filthy Rags" when a man submits himself to HIM, rather, "works of their righteousness" that they have done.

I will close with the Word's of the Jesus "of the Bible" Himself.

Matt. 13: 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom "of their Father". Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

This is only one of the many deceptions promoted by the "Many" who come in Christ's Name that Jesus said to "Take heed" of.

I truly hope that you will consider these things in the quiet moments of your personal study, and "come out of" the religious system of this world.

 

[Studyman]

Yes, we always tried to what the word of God teaches, and I know the best work we can, are filthy rags before God.
But when we believe in Christ by baptism, we are saved by God's grace through our faith (Ep 2:8-9) and sins are forgiven and received the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38) And when God's Spirit is within us and will cause us to walk in God's statutes, and we will be careful to observe God's ordinances.(Ezek 36:27). When we are led by the Spirit, we are not under the Law.(Gal 5:18) We will be called the sons of God. (Rom 8:14) And all of us, with unveiled faces, seeing the glory of the Lord as though reflected in a mirror, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another, for this comes from the Lord, the Spirit.(2 Cor 3:18)

And yet, the religious philosophy you have adopted and are now promoting, rejects God's Judgments concerning what is Holy, Clean, and Good, and instead has created their own definitions and Judgments pertaining to these things. You have adopted and are promoted a religious system that rejects God's Statutes and Sabbaths, and creates their own high days and sabbaths. And the merchants of this world wax rich adopting and promoting these man-made high days that they place Jesus' Name on. This same religious system creates images of God in the likeness of some random very handsome, long haired man that they call their God, even though the God they "Profess to know" has strictly forbidden such behavior. This religious system creates massive religious businesses and shrines of worship, with massive missions doing alms before men.

And they all quote "Some" of God's Word, as is the custom of the "other voice" in the garden since the serpent quoted "some" of God's Word to deceive Eve.

What I advocate for is not using select scriptures from God's Word for the purpose of self justification. Rather, "Live by" God's Word as Jesus instructs while we seek the Kingdom of god and HIS Righteousness.

All I posted above this are from the words of God, where as Paul taught;

Yes. And God did say, "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat".

But unless a man considers "Every Word" that proceeds from the mouth of God, these very Words can be used to Deceive Men. Jesus warned of this very thing. But "many" who call Him Lord, Lord, don't really believe Him.

And we are also warned "As also in all his (Pauls) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

It is and always has been the tradition of the prince of this world to quote "Some" of God's Word to promote a specific Philosophy. Paul didn't do this. As he said, "But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing "all things" which are written in the law and in the prophets:

15 And that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. (2 Tim 3:15-16)

Yes, let's hear more of Paul's Words to better understand his teaching to Timothy.

2 Tim. 3: 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall "wax worse and worse", deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But "continue thou in the things which thou hast learned" and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them. (Law and Prophets, the only scriptures availed to Paul and Timothy from their youth.)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, ( Law and Prophets Paul calls the Gospel of Christ in Rom. 1) which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which "is in" Christ Jesus. (The Author of my Faith) As it is written in the Gospel of Christ, "The Just shall Live By faith", Hab. 2:4

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, "for instruction in righteousness": 17 That the man of God "may be perfect", throughly furnished unto all good works.

Thank you for the discussion and the opportunity to share an understanding from one who has "Come out of her". Feel free to PM me if you would rather discuss some of these thing privately. Or ask anything you want to on this forum. I love to discuss the Holy Scriptures as opposed to just furthering popular religious philosophy.

 

[Capbook]

First off, I want to thank you so much for engaging in a discussion about this word "Judaism" to understand how it is commonly used by this world's religious system, compared according to Scriptures. Since you have been taught, and really believe and are promoting to others, that Judaism is a "Faith", adopted by Abraham, I want to make sure this teaching is aligned with the Christ of the Bible.

FYI, of all the preachers I have spoken with, of all the promoters of the various religious sects or philosophies that I have encountered, you are the very first one to actually begin to engage. And I have been trying to have this conversation for 30 years. Thank you again, for engaging with me on this topic and sharing with me your understanding.

Consider what Paul is saying here in the Scriptures you referenced.

Gal. 1: 13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the "Jews' religion", how that beyond measure "I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it": 14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

You are saying that this is "Judaism" and that Saul had adopted the same "Faith" as a Pharisee, that Abraham adopted. But according to Paul, when he was a Pharisee, he walked in a religion whose tradition was to "persecute the church of God, and waste it".

Stephen spoke of this very same religious tradition, concerning the "Traditions of Paul's Fathers", when he rebuked Paul and the promoters of the "Jews Religion" that Paul spoke to in Gal. 1.

Acts 7: 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: "as your fathers did", so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets "have not your fathers persecuted"? and they have slain (Murdered) them which shewed before of "the coming of the Just One"; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 "Who have received the law" (Oracles of God, Yes?) by the disposition of angels, and "have not kept it".

And what happened to Stephen for sharing this undeniable truth?

58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

Didn't Jesus also speak of the same "Jews religion" that Saul was Zealous for before his conversion, "Wherein in time past he walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience"?

Let's hear what Jesus actually said!

Luke 11: 47 Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and "your fathers killed them". 48 Truly ye bear witness "that ye allow the deeds of your fathers": for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres. 49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: 50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

Matt. 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, "thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee", how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

So Capbook, I mean no insult, no disrespect, no malice in the very least. I only advocate that we believe what is actually written in the Holy Scriptures about these things. We have been taught, not by the Holy Scriptures, but by "other voices" in this world God placed us in, that "Judaism" is a religion founded by God. You actually have been convinced, not by the Holy Scriptures, but by religions of this world that "come in Christ's Name", that Abraham adopted "Judaism", that Moses taught "Judaism".

In Jesus' Time, Saul, and most all of Jerusalem and the promoters of the "Jews religion" (Except Zacharias, Simeon, others I'm sure) claimed to be "Abraham's Children", adopting and following what you have been taught and are now promoting to others, is "Judaism" which you are promoting is an "Abrahamic Faith".

But when I read for myself, and hearken to what Jesus actually says, I find a completely different Gospel.

John 8: 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. "Jesus saith" unto them, "If" ye were Abraham's children, ye would do "the works of Abraham". 40 But now ye seek to kill me, "a man" that hath told you the truth, which "I have heard of God": "this did not Abraham". 41 Ye do the deeds "of your father". Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came "from God"; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

And anyone can go back in the God inspired Holy Scriptures to find out what the "works of Abraham" were if they are interested in Seeking God's Truth. And if a person were to do this, they would find that Abraham didn't adopt any religious sect of this world. Not the "Jewish religion". Not "Islam", and not what is become "Christianity".

Abraham believed God, and showed His belief by "Living by" Every Word that proceeded out of the mouth of God. This is the same FAITH that the man Jesus exhibited towards HIS God who sent Him.

Abraham wasn't perfect, but HE was faithful to God. He didn't always understand God, but he trusted God's Commandments and obeyed them anyway. The God inspired Holy Scriptures tells me that it was "Because" of this obedience that God Blessed Abraham. And it was accounted to him as "Faith". Wasn't that Abraham's "Faith"? Who convinced you that the "Jews religion" Saul zealously promoted, that transgressed God's commandments by their own traditions, was Abraham's Faith? You should leave any religious sect that would promote such a deception.

Abraham, like everyone of us, was called to leave the religion of his fathers, and follow God on a journey "unto a land that I will shew thee".

Noah, Moses, Caleb, David, Daniel, Shadrack, Rehab, Zacharias, Peter, James, Cornelius etc., and every example of Faithful man recorded for our admonition in the Holy Scriptures, adopted and strived for this Narrow Path that Jesus Promoted.

This is the "Church of God" that existed before Abraham that I am striving for. Not this world's religious system made up of thousands of different religious sects and branches of the 3 main religions you correctly identified as "Judaism", "Christianity" or "Islam".

This is why it is so important to understand what context you used in the word "Judaism" as a Label to define my Faith. Since "Judaism" is defined by you, is the "Jews Religion" that Paul promoted before his conversion, then I can say without hesitation, that I do not adopt the doctrines and traditions of the Jews, who Jesus told me, "Full well rejected the commandment of God, that they may keep their own tradition".

The members of God's Church, which existed before Abraham, have not and do not engage in such behavior. At least according to the Holy Scriptures.

Thanks for your well-explained standpoint about Judaism's distinction from the Church of God whom your are striving for.
I only have a nonspecific knowledge about it, only by its term. What I am familiar with were the Fathers of old, Adam to Abraham, Isaac and Israel were God's people in the Old Testament. But in the New Testament I believe Jesus had to come as the Jews religious leaders and others by their traditions become self-righteous.

 

[Capbook]

Of course I do. The Hebrews author was simply quoting the God inspired Word's of David, which I posted for your consideration but you completely ignored these Words I posted when David spoke them. Why would you ignore them when David spoke them, and not even consider them worthy of discussion, and then post them, implying that I don't believe them? Perhaps your intent in not nefarious, but you simply missed or didn't read my replies. Many on this forum can only see what they write, not really interested in a true fellowship or discussion. All they do on this forum is justify their own words, and are not interested in seeking the truth in their beliefs. I think this is ungodly fruit, and disrespectful to others who reply to my posts. It seems that a person should at least read and consider what someone else writes, and then seek the Scriptures to resolve a disagreement.

In this way men can grow in the knowledge, not only of the God's truth, but of the intents of our own hearts. Here, let's consider Hebrews 1.

Heb. 1: 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

I love the Holy Scriptures because they are part of God's armor. God's Words came from the mouth of David in times Past, but in the latter days, God's Word came from Jesus, "Whom HE has appointed heir of all things". David and the Author of Hebrews tells us why.

Psalms 45: 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: "the sceptre" of thy kingdom (Jesus) is a right sceptre.

Jesus is the Sceptre of God's Kingdom, Yes? God's Appointed heir of all things? God's Staff? Do yourself a favor and do a Word study of "Staff", in your closet, in sincere seeking of God's Truth, and for goodness sakes, stop adopting the philosophies of the "other voice" in the garden God placed you in, who come in Christ's Name. Put Jesus' name in most of the time the Word staff is used in the Law and Prophets, and then perhaps you will start to learn the truth about Jesus and His Relationship to His Father.

7 Thou (The Scepter of God's Kingdom, Jesus) lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of this) God, "thy" ((The Scepter of God's Kingdom, Jesus') God, hath anointed thee (Jesus) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (All other men born of a woman)

According to what you are posting, it is you who doesn't believe David or Hebrews. God's Throne is for ever and ever, Jesus is the Sceptre of God's Kingdom. God appointed Him to this Service "BECAUSE" of what Jesus did. At least this is what David and the Hebrew Author and Paul Teaches.

Ph. 2: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore (Because of this) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Hebrews 1:8, Yes, a quote from Ps 45:6-7. The fact that the writer of this epistle I believe makes no reference of this to the human king, as the "forever and ever throne" by Bible lexicon defined it as "perpetual, or continue to exist," we will find it hard to find such throne except that this application of the Psalm refer to the Jewish Messiah, for us refer to Jesus. It has been generally admitted, by both Jewish and Christian interpreters, to have such a reference. Even those who have doubted its primary applicability to the Messiah, have regarded it as referring to Jesus in a secondary sense. Many have supposed that it referred to a human in the primary sense, and that it has a secondary reference to the Messiah. To me it seems most probable that it had an original and exclusive reference to the Messiah. It is to be remembered that the hope of the Messiah was the special hope of the Jewish people. The coming of the their future king, so early promised, was the great event to which they all looked forward with the deepest interest.

 

[Capbook]

And yet, the religious philosophy you have adopted and are now promoting, rejects God's Judgments concerning what is Holy, Clean, and Good, and instead has created their own definitions and Judgments pertaining to these things. You have adopted and are promoted a religious system that rejects God's Statutes and Sabbaths, and creates their own high days and sabbaths. And the merchants of this world wax rich adopting and promoting these man-made high days that they place Jesus' Name on. This same religious system creates images of God in the likeness of some random very handsome, long haired man that they call their God, even though the God they "Profess to know" has strictly forbidden such behavior. This religious system creates massive religious businesses and shrines of worship, with massive missions doing alms before men.

And they all quote "Some" of God's Word, as is the custom of the "other voice" in the garden since the serpent quoted "some" of God's Word to deceive Eve.

What I advocate for is not using select scriptures from God's Word for the purpose of self justification. Rather, "Live by" God's Word as Jesus instructs while we seek the Kingdom of god and HIS Righteousness.



Yes. And God did say, "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat".

But unless a man considers "Every Word" that proceeds from the mouth of God, these very Words can be used to Deceive Men. Jesus warned of this very thing. But "many" who call Him Lord, Lord, don't really believe Him.

And we are also warned "As also in all his (Pauls) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

It is and always has been the tradition of the prince of this world to quote "Some" of God's Word to promote a specific Philosophy. Paul didn't do this. As he said, "But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing "all things" which are written in the law and in the prophets:




Yes, let's hear more of Paul's Words to better understand his teaching to Timothy.

2 Tim. 3: 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall "wax worse and worse", deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But "continue thou in the things which thou hast learned" and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them. (Law and Prophets, the only scriptures availed to Paul and Timothy from their youth.)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, ( Law and Prophets Paul calls the Gospel of Christ in Rom. 1) which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which "is in" Christ Jesus. (The Author of my Faith) As it is written in the Gospel of Christ, "The Just shall Live By faith", Hab. 2:4

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, "for instruction in righteousness": 17 That the man of God "may be perfect", throughly furnished unto all good works.

Thank you for the discussion and the opportunity to share an understanding from one who has "Come out of her". Feel free to PM me if you would rather discuss some of these thing privately. Or ask anything you want to on this forum. I love to discuss the Holy Scriptures as opposed to just furthering popular religious philosophy.

Obeying God's Law, statutes and Sabbath keeping cannot saved us. By God's grace through our faith saved us, not of our own doing, not a result of own works. That would be salvation by works and self-righteousness, because the best works we can do are still filthy rags before God. God will put us in a place that we desire to do His will not not to be saved, but being already saved by our faith. Doing the good works including obedience to God's law, Sabbath keeping and etc, is the result of us being saved, and not to be saved.

Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
NASB

 

[Capbook]

Again, I was taught just as you were, by the religions of this world, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that God's Righteousness is Righteous, until I "Yield myself" to it, or as the rebellious Jews refused to do, "Submit myself" to His Righteousness. Then His Righteousness becomes a Filthy Rag to God. Can you not see the foolishness of such a teaching? And certainly God never ever promoted such a thing. But when in times past I walked according to the course of this world, I too, believed the same as you, that if I submit myself to God's Righteousness, it becomes a filthy rag to God. My Brother, lets look at the God Inspired Words of Isaiah together and see if we were taught the truth, or a deception about God's righteousness.

Is. 64:5 Thou "meetest him" that rejoiceth and "worketh righteousness", "those that remember thee" "in "thy" ways":

Well this doesn't look like a bad thing. Are we not told throughout the entire Bible, including the very Word's of Jesus Himself, to "Work Righteousness" and to remember to "Live By" God's Ways, not our own?

Listen to the Spirit of Christ in David.

Ps. 15:1 Who shall abide in thy tabernacle? "who" shall dwell in thy holy hill? 2 He that walketh uprightly, and "worketh righteousness", and speaketh the truth in his heart.

And to the Spirit of Christ in Peter;

Acts 10: 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and "worketh righteousness", is accepted with him.

And from the Spirit of Christ in John:

1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth (worketh) righteousness "is righteous", even as he (Jesus) "is righteous".

But what happened to the Jews? Did they "work God's Righteousness"? Or did they refuse to submit to God's Righteousness and went about establishing their own Righteousness?

Lets see what Isaiah actually said.

behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those (God's Righteousness) is continuance, and we shall be saved.

So did they repent? Did they "turn to God"?

Is. 64: 6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all "our" righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. 7 And there is none "that calleth upon thy name", that stirreth up himself "to take hold of thee": for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of "our iniquities".

So you see Capbook. God is not telling you that all His Righteousness are as "Filthy Rags" when a man submits himself to HIM, rather, "works of their righteousness" that they have done.

I will close with the Word's of the Jesus "of the Bible" Himself.

Matt. 13: 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom "of their Father". Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

This is only one of the many deceptions promoted by the "Many" who come in Christ's Name that Jesus said to "Take heed" of.

I truly hope that you will consider these things in the quiet moments of your personal study, and "come out of" the religious system of this world.

What I mean about filthy rags are our own best working to follow God's commands without the help and guidance from the Holy Spirit. If you can do that, I'll appreciate you, but we all know that all comes short of the glory of God.

If we follow God's guidance through the Holy Spirit, we will not fall. But if we fall, it is us to be blamed because I really believe the Spirit will not led us to commit sin.