You shall worship the Lord you God only.

[Studyman]

Yes, we always tried to what the word of God teaches, and I know the best work we can, are filthy rags before God.

Again, I was taught just as you were, by the religions of this world, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that God's Righteousness is Righteous, until I "Yield myself" to it, or as the rebellious Jews refused to do, "Submit myself" to His Righteousness. Then His Righteousness becomes a Filthy Rag to God. Can you not see the foolishness of such a teaching? And certainly God never ever promoted such a thing. But when in times past I walked according to the course of this world, I too, believed the same as you, that if I submit myself to God's Righteousness, it becomes a filthy rag to God. My Brother, lets look at the God Inspired Words of Isaiah together and see if we were taught the truth, or a deception about God's righteousness.

Is. 64:5 Thou "meetest him" that rejoiceth and "worketh righteousness", "those that remember thee" "in "thy" ways":

Well this doesn't look like a bad thing. Are we not told throughout the entire Bible, including the very Word's of Jesus Himself, to "Work Righteousness" and to remember to "Live By" God's Ways, not our own?

Listen to the Spirit of Christ in David.

Ps. 15:1 Who shall abide in thy tabernacle? "who" shall dwell in thy holy hill? 2 He that walketh uprightly, and "worketh righteousness", and speaketh the truth in his heart.

And to the Spirit of Christ in Peter;

Acts 10: 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and "worketh righteousness", is accepted with him.

And from the Spirit of Christ in John:

1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth (worketh) righteousness "is righteous", even as he (Jesus) "is righteous".

But what happened to the Jews? Did they "work God's Righteousness"? Or did they refuse to submit to God's Righteousness and went about establishing their own Righteousness?

Lets see what Isaiah actually said.

behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those (God's Righteousness) is continuance, and we shall be saved.

So did they repent? Did they "turn to God"?

Is. 64: 6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all "our" righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. 7 And there is none "that calleth upon thy name", that stirreth up himself "to take hold of thee": for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of "our iniquities".

So you see Capbook. God is not telling you that all His Righteousness are as "Filthy Rags" when a man submits himself to HIM, rather, "works of their righteousness" that they have done.

I will close with the Word's of the Jesus "of the Bible" Himself.

Matt. 13: 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom "of their Father". Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

This is only one of the many deceptions promoted by the "Many" who come in Christ's Name that Jesus said to "Take heed" of.

I truly hope that you will consider these things in the quiet moments of your personal study, and "come out of" the religious system of this world.

 

[Studyman]

Yes, we always tried to what the word of God teaches, and I know the best work we can, are filthy rags before God.
But when we believe in Christ by baptism, we are saved by God's grace through our faith (Ep 2:8-9) and sins are forgiven and received the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38) And when God's Spirit is within us and will cause us to walk in God's statutes, and we will be careful to observe God's ordinances.(Ezek 36:27). When we are led by the Spirit, we are not under the Law.(Gal 5:18) We will be called the sons of God. (Rom 8:14) And all of us, with unveiled faces, seeing the glory of the Lord as though reflected in a mirror, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another, for this comes from the Lord, the Spirit.(2 Cor 3:18)

And yet, the religious philosophy you have adopted and are now promoting, rejects God's Judgments concerning what is Holy, Clean, and Good, and instead has created their own definitions and Judgments pertaining to these things. You have adopted and are promoted a religious system that rejects God's Statutes and Sabbaths, and creates their own high days and sabbaths. And the merchants of this world wax rich adopting and promoting these man-made high days that they place Jesus' Name on. This same religious system creates images of God in the likeness of some random very handsome, long haired man that they call their God, even though the God they "Profess to know" has strictly forbidden such behavior. This religious system creates massive religious businesses and shrines of worship, with massive missions doing alms before men.

And they all quote "Some" of God's Word, as is the custom of the "other voice" in the garden since the serpent quoted "some" of God's Word to deceive Eve.

What I advocate for is not using select scriptures from God's Word for the purpose of self justification. Rather, "Live by" God's Word as Jesus instructs while we seek the Kingdom of god and HIS Righteousness.

All I posted above this are from the words of God, where as Paul taught;

Yes. And God did say, "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat".

But unless a man considers "Every Word" that proceeds from the mouth of God, these very Words can be used to Deceive Men. Jesus warned of this very thing. But "many" who call Him Lord, Lord, don't really believe Him.

And we are also warned "As also in all his (Pauls) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

It is and always has been the tradition of the prince of this world to quote "Some" of God's Word to promote a specific Philosophy. Paul didn't do this. As he said, "But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing "all things" which are written in the law and in the prophets:

15 And that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. (2 Tim 3:15-16)

Yes, let's hear more of Paul's Words to better understand his teaching to Timothy.

2 Tim. 3: 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall "wax worse and worse", deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But "continue thou in the things which thou hast learned" and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them. (Law and Prophets, the only scriptures availed to Paul and Timothy from their youth.)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, ( Law and Prophets Paul calls the Gospel of Christ in Rom. 1) which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which "is in" Christ Jesus. (The Author of my Faith) As it is written in the Gospel of Christ, "The Just shall Live By faith", Hab. 2:4

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, "for instruction in righteousness": 17 That the man of God "may be perfect", throughly furnished unto all good works.

Thank you for the discussion and the opportunity to share an understanding from one who has "Come out of her". Feel free to PM me if you would rather discuss some of these thing privately. Or ask anything you want to on this forum. I love to discuss the Holy Scriptures as opposed to just furthering popular religious philosophy.

 

[Capbook]

First off, I want to thank you so much for engaging in a discussion about this word "Judaism" to understand how it is commonly used by this world's religious system, compared according to Scriptures. Since you have been taught, and really believe and are promoting to others, that Judaism is a "Faith", adopted by Abraham, I want to make sure this teaching is aligned with the Christ of the Bible.

FYI, of all the preachers I have spoken with, of all the promoters of the various religious sects or philosophies that I have encountered, you are the very first one to actually begin to engage. And I have been trying to have this conversation for 30 years. Thank you again, for engaging with me on this topic and sharing with me your understanding.

Consider what Paul is saying here in the Scriptures you referenced.

Gal. 1: 13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the "Jews' religion", how that beyond measure "I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it": 14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

You are saying that this is "Judaism" and that Saul had adopted the same "Faith" as a Pharisee, that Abraham adopted. But according to Paul, when he was a Pharisee, he walked in a religion whose tradition was to "persecute the church of God, and waste it".

Stephen spoke of this very same religious tradition, concerning the "Traditions of Paul's Fathers", when he rebuked Paul and the promoters of the "Jews Religion" that Paul spoke to in Gal. 1.

Acts 7: 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: "as your fathers did", so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets "have not your fathers persecuted"? and they have slain (Murdered) them which shewed before of "the coming of the Just One"; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 "Who have received the law" (Oracles of God, Yes?) by the disposition of angels, and "have not kept it".

And what happened to Stephen for sharing this undeniable truth?

58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

Didn't Jesus also speak of the same "Jews religion" that Saul was Zealous for before his conversion, "Wherein in time past he walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience"?

Let's hear what Jesus actually said!

Luke 11: 47 Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and "your fathers killed them". 48 Truly ye bear witness "that ye allow the deeds of your fathers": for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres. 49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: 50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

Matt. 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, "thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee", how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

So Capbook, I mean no insult, no disrespect, no malice in the very least. I only advocate that we believe what is actually written in the Holy Scriptures about these things. We have been taught, not by the Holy Scriptures, but by "other voices" in this world God placed us in, that "Judaism" is a religion founded by God. You actually have been convinced, not by the Holy Scriptures, but by religions of this world that "come in Christ's Name", that Abraham adopted "Judaism", that Moses taught "Judaism".

In Jesus' Time, Saul, and most all of Jerusalem and the promoters of the "Jews religion" (Except Zacharias, Simeon, others I'm sure) claimed to be "Abraham's Children", adopting and following what you have been taught and are now promoting to others, is "Judaism" which you are promoting is an "Abrahamic Faith".

But when I read for myself, and hearken to what Jesus actually says, I find a completely different Gospel.

John 8: 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. "Jesus saith" unto them, "If" ye were Abraham's children, ye would do "the works of Abraham". 40 But now ye seek to kill me, "a man" that hath told you the truth, which "I have heard of God": "this did not Abraham". 41 Ye do the deeds "of your father". Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came "from God"; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

And anyone can go back in the God inspired Holy Scriptures to find out what the "works of Abraham" were if they are interested in Seeking God's Truth. And if a person were to do this, they would find that Abraham didn't adopt any religious sect of this world. Not the "Jewish religion". Not "Islam", and not what is become "Christianity".

Abraham believed God, and showed His belief by "Living by" Every Word that proceeded out of the mouth of God. This is the same FAITH that the man Jesus exhibited towards HIS God who sent Him.

Abraham wasn't perfect, but HE was faithful to God. He didn't always understand God, but he trusted God's Commandments and obeyed them anyway. The God inspired Holy Scriptures tells me that it was "Because" of this obedience that God Blessed Abraham. And it was accounted to him as "Faith". Wasn't that Abraham's "Faith"? Who convinced you that the "Jews religion" Saul zealously promoted, that transgressed God's commandments by their own traditions, was Abraham's Faith? You should leave any religious sect that would promote such a deception.

Abraham, like everyone of us, was called to leave the religion of his fathers, and follow God on a journey "unto a land that I will shew thee".

Noah, Moses, Caleb, David, Daniel, Shadrack, Rehab, Zacharias, Peter, James, Cornelius etc., and every example of Faithful man recorded for our admonition in the Holy Scriptures, adopted and strived for this Narrow Path that Jesus Promoted.

This is the "Church of God" that existed before Abraham that I am striving for. Not this world's religious system made up of thousands of different religious sects and branches of the 3 main religions you correctly identified as "Judaism", "Christianity" or "Islam".

This is why it is so important to understand what context you used in the word "Judaism" as a Label to define my Faith. Since "Judaism" is defined by you, is the "Jews Religion" that Paul promoted before his conversion, then I can say without hesitation, that I do not adopt the doctrines and traditions of the Jews, who Jesus told me, "Full well rejected the commandment of God, that they may keep their own tradition".

The members of God's Church, which existed before Abraham, have not and do not engage in such behavior. At least according to the Holy Scriptures.

Thanks for your well-explained standpoint about Judaism's distinction from the Church of God whom your are striving for.
I only have a nonspecific knowledge about it, only by its term. What I am familiar with were the Fathers of old, Adam to Abraham, Isaac and Israel were God's people in the Old Testament. But in the New Testament I believe Jesus had to come as the Jews religious leaders and others by their traditions become self-righteous.

 

[Capbook]

Of course I do. The Hebrews author was simply quoting the God inspired Word's of David, which I posted for your consideration but you completely ignored these Words I posted when David spoke them. Why would you ignore them when David spoke them, and not even consider them worthy of discussion, and then post them, implying that I don't believe them? Perhaps your intent in not nefarious, but you simply missed or didn't read my replies. Many on this forum can only see what they write, not really interested in a true fellowship or discussion. All they do on this forum is justify their own words, and are not interested in seeking the truth in their beliefs. I think this is ungodly fruit, and disrespectful to others who reply to my posts. It seems that a person should at least read and consider what someone else writes, and then seek the Scriptures to resolve a disagreement.

In this way men can grow in the knowledge, not only of the God's truth, but of the intents of our own hearts. Here, let's consider Hebrews 1.

Heb. 1: 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

I love the Holy Scriptures because they are part of God's armor. God's Words came from the mouth of David in times Past, but in the latter days, God's Word came from Jesus, "Whom HE has appointed heir of all things". David and the Author of Hebrews tells us why.

Psalms 45: 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: "the sceptre" of thy kingdom (Jesus) is a right sceptre.

Jesus is the Sceptre of God's Kingdom, Yes? God's Appointed heir of all things? God's Staff? Do yourself a favor and do a Word study of "Staff", in your closet, in sincere seeking of God's Truth, and for goodness sakes, stop adopting the philosophies of the "other voice" in the garden God placed you in, who come in Christ's Name. Put Jesus' name in most of the time the Word staff is used in the Law and Prophets, and then perhaps you will start to learn the truth about Jesus and His Relationship to His Father.

7 Thou (The Scepter of God's Kingdom, Jesus) lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of this) God, "thy" ((The Scepter of God's Kingdom, Jesus') God, hath anointed thee (Jesus) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (All other men born of a woman)

According to what you are posting, it is you who doesn't believe David or Hebrews. God's Throne is for ever and ever, Jesus is the Sceptre of God's Kingdom. God appointed Him to this Service "BECAUSE" of what Jesus did. At least this is what David and the Hebrew Author and Paul Teaches.

Ph. 2: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore (Because of this) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Hebrews 1:8, Yes, a quote from Ps 45:6-7. The fact that the writer of this epistle I believe makes no reference of this to the human king, as the "forever and ever throne" by Bible lexicon defined it as "perpetual, or continue to exist," we will find it hard to find such throne except that this application of the Psalm refer to the Jewish Messiah, for us refer to Jesus. It has been generally admitted, by both Jewish and Christian interpreters, to have such a reference. Even those who have doubted its primary applicability to the Messiah, have regarded it as referring to Jesus in a secondary sense. Many have supposed that it referred to a human in the primary sense, and that it has a secondary reference to the Messiah. To me it seems most probable that it had an original and exclusive reference to the Messiah. It is to be remembered that the hope of the Messiah was the special hope of the Jewish people. The coming of the their future king, so early promised, was the great event to which they all looked forward with the deepest interest.

 

[Capbook]

And yet, the religious philosophy you have adopted and are now promoting, rejects God's Judgments concerning what is Holy, Clean, and Good, and instead has created their own definitions and Judgments pertaining to these things. You have adopted and are promoted a religious system that rejects God's Statutes and Sabbaths, and creates their own high days and sabbaths. And the merchants of this world wax rich adopting and promoting these man-made high days that they place Jesus' Name on. This same religious system creates images of God in the likeness of some random very handsome, long haired man that they call their God, even though the God they "Profess to know" has strictly forbidden such behavior. This religious system creates massive religious businesses and shrines of worship, with massive missions doing alms before men.

And they all quote "Some" of God's Word, as is the custom of the "other voice" in the garden since the serpent quoted "some" of God's Word to deceive Eve.

What I advocate for is not using select scriptures from God's Word for the purpose of self justification. Rather, "Live by" God's Word as Jesus instructs while we seek the Kingdom of god and HIS Righteousness.



Yes. And God did say, "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat".

But unless a man considers "Every Word" that proceeds from the mouth of God, these very Words can be used to Deceive Men. Jesus warned of this very thing. But "many" who call Him Lord, Lord, don't really believe Him.

And we are also warned "As also in all his (Pauls) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

It is and always has been the tradition of the prince of this world to quote "Some" of God's Word to promote a specific Philosophy. Paul didn't do this. As he said, "But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing "all things" which are written in the law and in the prophets:




Yes, let's hear more of Paul's Words to better understand his teaching to Timothy.

2 Tim. 3: 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall "wax worse and worse", deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But "continue thou in the things which thou hast learned" and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them. (Law and Prophets, the only scriptures availed to Paul and Timothy from their youth.)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, ( Law and Prophets Paul calls the Gospel of Christ in Rom. 1) which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which "is in" Christ Jesus. (The Author of my Faith) As it is written in the Gospel of Christ, "The Just shall Live By faith", Hab. 2:4

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, "for instruction in righteousness": 17 That the man of God "may be perfect", throughly furnished unto all good works.

Thank you for the discussion and the opportunity to share an understanding from one who has "Come out of her". Feel free to PM me if you would rather discuss some of these thing privately. Or ask anything you want to on this forum. I love to discuss the Holy Scriptures as opposed to just furthering popular religious philosophy.

Obeying God's Law, statutes and Sabbath keeping cannot saved us. By God's grace through our faith saved us, not of our own doing, not a result of own works. That would be salvation by works and self-righteousness, because the best works we can do are still filthy rags before God. God will put us in a place that we desire to do His will not not to be saved, but being already saved by our faith. Doing the good works including obedience to God's law, Sabbath keeping and etc, is the result of us being saved, and not to be saved.

Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
NASB

 

[Capbook]

Again, I was taught just as you were, by the religions of this world, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that God's Righteousness is Righteous, until I "Yield myself" to it, or as the rebellious Jews refused to do, "Submit myself" to His Righteousness. Then His Righteousness becomes a Filthy Rag to God. Can you not see the foolishness of such a teaching? And certainly God never ever promoted such a thing. But when in times past I walked according to the course of this world, I too, believed the same as you, that if I submit myself to God's Righteousness, it becomes a filthy rag to God. My Brother, lets look at the God Inspired Words of Isaiah together and see if we were taught the truth, or a deception about God's righteousness.

Is. 64:5 Thou "meetest him" that rejoiceth and "worketh righteousness", "those that remember thee" "in "thy" ways":

Well this doesn't look like a bad thing. Are we not told throughout the entire Bible, including the very Word's of Jesus Himself, to "Work Righteousness" and to remember to "Live By" God's Ways, not our own?

Listen to the Spirit of Christ in David.

Ps. 15:1 Who shall abide in thy tabernacle? "who" shall dwell in thy holy hill? 2 He that walketh uprightly, and "worketh righteousness", and speaketh the truth in his heart.

And to the Spirit of Christ in Peter;

Acts 10: 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and "worketh righteousness", is accepted with him.

And from the Spirit of Christ in John:

1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth (worketh) righteousness "is righteous", even as he (Jesus) "is righteous".

But what happened to the Jews? Did they "work God's Righteousness"? Or did they refuse to submit to God's Righteousness and went about establishing their own Righteousness?

Lets see what Isaiah actually said.

behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those (God's Righteousness) is continuance, and we shall be saved.

So did they repent? Did they "turn to God"?

Is. 64: 6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all "our" righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. 7 And there is none "that calleth upon thy name", that stirreth up himself "to take hold of thee": for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of "our iniquities".

So you see Capbook. God is not telling you that all His Righteousness are as "Filthy Rags" when a man submits himself to HIM, rather, "works of their righteousness" that they have done.

I will close with the Word's of the Jesus "of the Bible" Himself.

Matt. 13: 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom "of their Father". Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

This is only one of the many deceptions promoted by the "Many" who come in Christ's Name that Jesus said to "Take heed" of.

I truly hope that you will consider these things in the quiet moments of your personal study, and "come out of" the religious system of this world.

What I mean about filthy rags are our own best working to follow God's commands without the help and guidance from the Holy Spirit. If you can do that, I'll appreciate you, but we all know that all comes short of the glory of God.

If we follow God's guidance through the Holy Spirit, we will not fall. But if we fall, it is us to be blamed because I really believe the Spirit will not led us to commit sin.

 

[Studyman]

What I mean about filthy rags are our own best working to follow God's commands without the help and guidance from the Holy Spirit. If you can do that, I'll appreciate you, but we all know that all comes short of the glory of God.

I know exactly what you meant Capbook. You are promoting the popular religious philosophy that Isaiah is saying that when men strive to obey God's Commands, AKA, strive to walk in "His Righteousness", "that HE before ordained that we should walk in them", then His Righteousness become "filthy rags". I simply wanted to show you what Isaiah actually said. And that the righteousness Isaiah called a "filthy Rag" was not God's Righteousness that Isaiah was striving to Live By or obey as God instructed, but "their own" righteousness that they set about to establish because they refused to submit to the Righteousness of God.

Do you believe God is the Holy Spirit? If God says "Don't Steal", is this not "help and guidance from the Holy Spirit"? Are you saying that God told you not to steal, knowing that you don't have the capacity to "Yield yourself" to Him, and therefore stop stealing?

The implication of your adopted religious philosophy here is, "Well why stop stealing, or Keeping God's Sabbaths Holy, or SEEKING God's Righteousness, or submitting myself to God's Judgments, since I fall short of the Glory of God anyway. Why should I strive against sin, or strive to "Live By" the Words of God Jesus said to live by, since God's Righteousness becomes a filthy rag when I submit to Him?

With this mind, that most certainly wasn't in the Christ Jesus "of the bible", men adopt a popular religious sect of this world, who calls Jesus Lord, Lord, but rejects God's Judgments and creates their own. Who reject God's Statutes, and creates their own high days. Who despises God's Sabbaths, and creates their own sabbaths.

And when the Scriptures bring question to this man-made religion, the promoters thereof say, so what "we all comes short of the glory of God".

If we follow God's guidance through the Holy Spirit, we will not fall.

What "spirit" would lead men to a religious system that "Full well transgresses God's commandments so that they can keep their own man-made religious traditions?

What did the Jesus "of the bible" tell men to "DO" so that they won't fall? And if a man calls this Jesus Lord, then why aren't they "doers" of His Sayings?

But if we fall, it is us to be blamed because I really believe the Spirit will not led us to commit sin.

There is a spirit that leads men to disobey God's Commandments, or as Jesus calls it "work iniquity". And yes, if you know it is a sin to steal, or drink blood, or commit adultery, or any of God's Judgments and commandments, and you walk in them anyway because the "Other voice" in the garden God placed you is, teaches you it's OK, "You shall surely not die", this is truly a spirit of this world. But not the Holy Spirit.

Food for thought.

 

[Capbook]

I know exactly what you meant Capbook. You are promoting the popular religious philosophy that Isaiah is saying that when men strive to obey God's Commands, AKA, strive to walk in "His Righteousness", "that HE before ordained that we should walk in them", then His Righteousness become "filthy rags". I simply wanted to show you what Isaiah actually said. And that the righteousness Isaiah called a "filthy Rag" was not God's Righteousness that Isaiah was striving to Live By or obey as God instructed, but "their own" righteousness that they set about to establish because they refused to submitto the Righteousness of God.

Yes, that's what I meant, man's own doing of righteousness.

Do you believe God is the Holy Spirit? If God says "Don't Steal", is this not "help and guidance from the Holy Spirit"? Are you saying that God told you not to steal, knowing that you don't have the capacity to "Yield yourself" to Him, and therefore stop stealing?

Yes, if we always yields/surrenders ourselves to the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we will not fall. But the author of 1 John 2:1, had written to the believers not to sin, but if anyone does, we have an Advocate to the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous.

The implication of your adopted religious philosophy here is, "Well why stop stealing, or Keeping God's Sabbaths Holy, or SEEKING God's Righteousness, or submitting myself to God's Judgments, since I fall short of the Glory of God anyway. Why should I strive against sin, or strive to "Live By" the Words of God Jesus said to live by, since God's Righteousness becomes a filthy rag when I submit to Him?

I don't see God's Righteousness as filthy rags. I mean our self-righteousness as filthy rags before God. Self-righteousness means to me as aspiring to achieve righteousness without the God's Spirit guidance, I believe like the Pharisees.

With this mind, that most certainly wasn't in the Christ Jesus "of the bible", men adopt a popular religious sect of this world, who calls Jesus Lord, Lord, but rejects God's Judgments and creates their own. Who reject God's Statutes, and creates their own high days. Who despises God's Sabbaths, and creates their own sabbaths.

We do keep the Sabbath.

And when the Scriptures bring question to this man-made religion, the promoters thereof say, so what "we all comes short of the glory of God".

Would consider yourself sinless? I'm sorry, I consider this as a hard question because if you do Jesus then is not alone.

What "spirit" would lead men to a religious system that "Full well transgresses God's commandments so that they can keep their own man-made religious traditions?

Well, what tradition you are referring to?

What did the Jesus "of the bible" tell men to "DO" so that they won't fall? And if a man calls this Jesus Lord, then why aren't they "doers" of His Sayings?

Do you imply that believer should be sinless? I believe it is possible if we always deny ourselves and follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Are you familiar with Ecc 7:20?
Eccl 7:20 Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.
NASB

There is a spirit that leads men to disobey God's Commandments, or as Jesus calls it "work iniquity". And yes, if you know it is a sin to steal, or drink blood, or commit adultery, or any of God's Judgments and commandments, and you walk in them anyway because the "Other voice" in the garden God placed you is, teaches you it's OK, "You shall surely not die", this is truly a spirit of this world. But not the Holy Spirit.

Yes, it is not just the "other voice" but also the one within us. Does anyone excluded by the Bible text below?
Jer 17:9-10
9 "The heart is more deceitful than all else
And is desperately sick;
Who can understand it?
10 "I, the Lord, search the heart,
I test the mind,
NASB

Food for thought.

Yes, a food for thought indeed.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Studyman]

Yes, that's what I meant, man's own doing of righteousness.

That is not what Isaiah said though. You are re-writing the Scriptures here in order to justify a popular religious philosophy that you have adopted and are promoting to others. Isaiah said, "Our Righteousness", "not their doing" of God's Righteousness.

This is a huge distinction. Perhaps, like so "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, you simply don't care. But I'm going to assume you do.

This is what "YOU" said, "What I mean about filthy rags are our own best working to follow "God's commands"

What I am trying to show you, is that Isaiah isn't talking about a people who were trying to follow "God's Commands". This world's religions have taught you, and now you are promoting to others, that Isaiah is talking about men who are trying to obey God's Commands, trying to walk in God's Commands, but HIS Commands are just impossible to follow. And they just can't please God and that is why God was angry with them. But Abraham pleased God. Caleb pleased God. Joshua pleased God. David pleased God. Shadrack pleased God. Zacharias and Elizabeth pleased God. Saul repented and pleased God. Why was God pleased with them, but not the Pharisees or their fathers? Was it not because the rebellious Jews walked in and promoted "Their Own Righteousness", while the Faithful examples in the Bible did their best to submit their imperfect self to God's Righteousness?

Jesus tells us, but we have been taught by this world's religious system NOT to really listen to Him.

Mark 7: 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject "the commandment of God", that ye may keep "your own tradition".

CAN'T YOU SEE, they we not trying to keep God's Righteousness or follow God's commands, but their "own righteousness".

This is what Isaiah was speaking about. Unless you believe the Holy Spirit wasn't on Isaiah, or Jesus.

Paul tells us, but we have been taught by this world's religious system NOT to really listen to Him.

Rom. 10: 3 For they (rebellious Jews Isaiah was speaking about) being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish "their own righteousness", "have not submitted themselves" unto the righteousness "of God".

CAN'T YOU SEE, they we not trying to keep "God's Righteousness" or follow "God's commands", but their "own righteousness".

Ezekiel tells us, but we have been taught by this world's religious system NOT to really listen to Him.

Ez. 20: 18 But I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes "of your fathers", neither observe "their judgments", nor defile yourselves with "their idols": 19 I am the LORD your God; walk in "my statutes", and keep "my judgments", and "do" them; 20 And hallow "my sabbaths"; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

21 Notwithstanding the children "rebelled against me" ( This is who Isaiah is speaking about) they "walked not" in my statutes, neither "kept" my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; "they polluted" my sabbaths:

But you see Capbook, these men were NOT "Doing their best to follow God's Commands". Isaiah was NOT speaking about a people who were trying "to follow God's Commands", as you can see, if God will let you, these men rejected God's Commands, and chose instead to walk after the imagination of their own hearts. They established their own righteousness, and rejected the righteousness of God. That is why God was angry with the Jews. And that is why the Bible was written, so that we would follow the masses, "Who call Jesus Lord, Lord, but reject God's definition of Sin.

 

[Studyman]

Yes, that's what I meant, man's own doing of righteousness.


Yes, if we always yields/surrenders ourselves to the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we will not fall. But the author of 1 John 2:1, had written to the believers not to sin, but if anyone does, we have an Advocate to the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous.

The Same Spirit, on the Same John also said:

1 John 2: 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, "if" we keep" his commandments. (Not the religious traditions of this world) 4 He that saith, "I know him", and keepeth not "his" commandments, "is a liar", and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, (Not the traditions of this world's religious system) "in him" verily is the "love of God" perfected: "hereby know" we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so "to walk", even as he walked.

And the Same Spirit of Christ, on the Same John also said:

1 John 3: 7 Little children, let "no man" deceive you: (Deceived means believing something that is not true) he that doeth righteousness" is righteous, even as "he" is righteous.

Isn't this true guidance of the Holy Spirit? Is Jesus an Advocate for men who call HIM, Lord, Lord but HE doesn't even know them? Men who call Him Lord, Lord, but reject God's Righteousness and Judgments in favor of their own righteousness and judgments, is HE their Advocate?

How is it you believe "SOME" of John's Words, but not all? Does the Holy Spirit direct men to pick and choose what Scriptures to believe, and what Scriptures to ignore?

1 John 5: 1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep "his" commandments. 3 For this "is" the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

In this world God placed me in, there is a religious system that calls Jesus Lord, Lord who rejects His Righteous Judgments in favor their own Righteous Judgments. They have rejected God's Statutes and sabbaths and have created instead, their own high days and sabbaths.

How is this religion any different than the religion of the rebellious Jews? Am I to believe it's OK to reject God's Righteousness and go about establishing my own righteousness, as long as I do so "In Christ's Name"?

I don't see God's Righteousness as filthy rags. I mean our self-righteousness as filthy rags before God. Self-righteousness means to me as aspiring to achieve righteousness without the God's Spirit guidance, I believe like the Pharisees.

God's is a Spirit Yes? And God's Word of Spiritual, Yes? Doesn't Paul say:

2 Tim. 3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the "man of God" may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


You seem to be trying to separate God, from the Spirit of God. That somehow God's Spirit telling me what is Righteousness, in His Inspired Word, is somehow different than "God's Spirit Guidance"?

For instance, drinking blood or committing adultery is "Unrighteousness", according to God's Spirit. God has judged such behavior as SIN or "Unrighteousness, or Ungodliness. If I am born into a world in which religious men, "who profess to know God" promote the drinking of blood, or lusting after women other than our wives, then these men are rejecting God's Righteousness in favor of their own righteousness, Yes? They are full well rejecting the commandments of God so that they may keep their own traditions.

The righteousness of men who engage in this behavior, is the righteousness Isaiah is speaking to. Now if I trust God's Spiritual Guidance, that Paul calls the "Holy Scriptures", and I read what God actually says:

Duet. 12: 23 Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh. 24 Thou shalt not eat it; thou shalt pour it upon the earth as water. 25 Thou shalt not eat it; that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, when thou shalt do that which is right in the sight of the LORD.

Ex. 20: 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Prov. 6: 24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman. 25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.

And I turn away from the religious traditions of my fathers, and the religious philosophies of this world, and "Yield myself" to God's Righteousness, then according to what the Bible actually teaches, I am being Righteous, just as Jesus was righteous.

But the religion you have adopted doesn't teach this. And this world's religious system doesn't teach this. That is Jesus said to "Come out of Her", to "Be ye therefore not like unto them", to "Take HEED that you are not deceived by the "MANY" who come in Christ's Name".

That is why Caleb was accepted by God, but the rest of Israel was not. Because the works of righteousness that men have "done" is from below, and is a filthy rag. But the Righteousness of God is from above. This is why the Jesus "of the bible" said to Seek God's Righteousness, and not the righteousness of this world's religious system that the "Christians" in Matt. 7:22 walked in.

 

[Studyman]

We do keep the Sabbath.

Not God's Sabbath. Yes, this world's religious system has created a sabbath, but it isn't the Sabbath Jesus walked in, nor is it the Sabbath HE said was "made for man". If you did, you wouldn't be teaching that Isaiah is talking about Israel striving to submit to God's Righteousness was the reason why God was angry with them.

Would consider yourself sinless? I'm sorry, I consider this as a hard question because if you do Jesus then is not alone.

The reason why I replied to your post is because you were furthering a popular but false teaching about God and His Prophets concerning His "filthy Rag" statement. I know this, because I am led by the "Holy Spirit" which is able to make me wise unto Salvation, which if through the Faith that was in Christ Jesus, "who being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient (To God) unto death"

The goal for the repentant human being is to be sinless. To become servants of God's Righteousness as Paul teaches. To "Go and Sin no more". What is Sin and what is righteousness? Shall I listen to the "Other voice" in the garden God placed me in, like EVE did, to "know God and His Righteousness"? Or shall I submit to by Lord and Savior, and become a "Doer" of His Sayings?

When I "SEEK the Righteousness of God I am SEEKING to be Led by the Holy Spirit. And this Spirit sent to me His Christ and has commanded me to "Hearken unto Him". In this way the Holy Spirit instructs me on everything I need to know. What to drink and not drink. What to eat and not eat. Who to worship and who not to worship? Who to Take Heed of, and who to trust.

Am I perfect? No, but I am instructed to "strive against Sin". To "Be perfect as His father and my Father in heaven are perfect.

Paul expresses the Spirit in me much better than I can in the answer of your question.

Phil. 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, (Pharisees Law) but that which is through the faith "of Christ", "the righteousness" which is "of God" by faith:

10 That I may know him, (Jesus) and the power of his (Jesus) resurrection, and the fellowship of his (Jesus) sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; (Striving against Sin is a life long battle)

11 If by any means "I might attain" unto the resurrection of the dead.

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: "but I follow after", if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count "not myself" to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things "which are behind", and reaching forth unto those things "which are before", (Another "Today" that if I hear His voice, I will not harden my heart)

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God (Sinless perfection was is) in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

You can't SEE that the leaven of your teaching of Isaiah concerning the filthy rag, has leavened your entire body. Everything you read is through the leaven/prism of this falsehood. Just as your understanding of Judaism, and the Jews religion.

What I advocate for, in my less that perfect body, is that men "listen" to the Jesus of the Bible, and consider from the heart, what HE actually says, and for goodness sake, come out of this world's religious system, "that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

 

[Capbook]

Not God's Sabbath. Yes, this world's religious system has created a sabbath, but it isn't the Sabbath Jesus walked in, nor is it the Sabbath HE said was "made for man". If you did, you wouldn't be teaching that Isaiah is talking about Israel striving to submit to God's Righteousness was the reason why God was angry with them.



The reason why I replied to your post is because you were furthering a popular but false teaching about God and His Prophets concerning His "filthy Rag" statement. I know this, because I am led by the "Holy Spirit" which is able to make me wise unto Salvation, which if through the Faith that was in Christ Jesus, "who being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient (To God) unto death"

The goal for the repentant human being is to be sinless. To become servants of God's Righteousness as Paul teaches. To "Go and Sin no more". What is Sin and what is righteousness? Shall I listen to the "Other voice" in the garden God placed me in, like EVE did, to "know God and His Righteousness"? Or shall I submit to by Lord and Savior, and become a "Doer" of His Sayings?

When I "SEEK the Righteousness of God I am SEEKING to be Led by the Holy Spirit. And this Spirit sent to me His Christ and has commanded me to "Hearken unto Him". In this way the Holy Spirit instructs me on everything I need to know. What to drink and not drink. What to eat and not eat. Who to worship and who not to worship? Who to Take Heed of, and who to trust.

Am I perfect? No, but I am instructed to "strive against Sin". To "Be perfect as His father and my Father in heaven are perfect.

Paul expresses the Spirit in me much better than I can in the answer of your question.

Phil. 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, (Pharisees Law) but that which is through the faith "of Christ", "the righteousness" which is "of God" by faith:

10 That I may know him, (Jesus) and the power of his (Jesus) resurrection, and the fellowship of his (Jesus) sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; (Striving against Sin is a life long battle)

11 If by any means "I might attain" unto the resurrection of the dead.

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: "but I follow after", if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count "not myself" to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things "which are behind", and reaching forth unto those things "which are before", (Another "Today" that if I hear His voice, I will not harden my heart)

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God (Sinless perfection was is) in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

You can't SEE that the leaven of your teaching of Isaiah concerning the filthy rag, has leavened your entire body. Everything you read is through the leaven/prism of this falsehood. Just as your understanding of Judaism, and the Jews religion.

What I advocate for, in my less that perfect body, is that men "listen" to the Jesus of the Bible, and consider from the heart, what HE actually says, and for goodness sake, come out of this world's religious system, "that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Maybe your Sabbath is not my Sabbath is for the people of God in Heb 4:9.

As I’ve said, when baptized, God put is in a place where we desire to do God’s will.

Since you despise Judaism, and strive for the Church of God, do you attend holy convocation?

 

[Studyman]

Maybe your Sabbath is not my Sabbath is for the people of God in Heb 4:9.

Your sabbath, the Pharisees sabbath, the Catholic sabbath, they are all the same. They are the "works of men". I'm talking about God's Sabbath Commandment that Jesus walked in, God's instruction in Righteousness that Jesus obeyed. The Good works "God before ordained" that His People should walk in them. The people, according to Paul, who "Yield themselves" to God in these things, are the "people of God" according to what is written in the Holy Scriptures.

If you were as interested in actually seeking the truth of the Scriptures, as you are in justifying your adopted religion, you would have heard the inspired Words of Christ through the Hebrew author before he got to verse 9.

Heb. 4: 1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, "as well as unto them": but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith (Belief) in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom "it was first preached" entered not in because of unbelief:

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, "To" day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

As I’ve said, when baptized, God put is in a place where we desire to do God’s will.

And yet, this world's religious system you are defending and justifying, have rejected God's judgments in favor of their own. They have rejected God's Sabbath, in favor of the Catholic sabbath. They have rejected the Statutes of God and created their own high days and definition of Holy. They have created an image of God in the likeness of man. This is undeniable truth. And now you are telling me all this is God's Will. What if the Word's of the Jesus "of the Bible" are true, and the religious system of this world you have adopted and are now defending, is the deceiver?

They preach the deception to all who will listen to them, that God was mad at Israel for striving to follow His Commands. And they preach the Pharisees and Abraham adopted and promoted the same religion that you call "Judaism". There is no end to the deception and cleaver lies, and subtle falsehoods they have promoted, since the other voice in the garden convinced Eve that God lied to her.

David in Psalms 14 and 5, and Paul who quoted him in Romans 3 tries to tell you the truth about this world's religion.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD. 5 There were they in great fear: for God is in "the generation of the righteous".

Since you despise Judaism, and strive for the Church of God, do you attend holy convocation?

No Capbook. You defined "Judaism" as the Pharisees religion that Saul lived by and promoted according to his own words, "Wherein in time past he walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".

God despised the Pharisees religion, and Paul told us all, who would listen to him, that it was not the "Church of God". And in fact, it was a religious system who rejected and mocked the Righteousness of God, and mocked and persecuted the members of the Church of God, who "Yielded themselves" to Him, and their bodies as instruments of Righteousness unto Him, as it is to this day. And HE appointed His Son to be the Head of this Church, and commanded men to hearken unto Him. And HE told both you and I to "Live by" God's Word, not this world's religious system.

As for "Holy Convocation", here is what the Holy Spirit tells us.

Lev. 23: 3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

4 These are the feasts "of the LORD", even holy convocations, which ye (God's People) shall proclaim in their seasons.

And since you claim to believe John, here is what John says.

1 John 2: 3 And hereby "we do know" that we know him, if we keep "his commandments".

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not "his commandments", is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso ( Whosoever, anyone, everyone) keepeth his word, "in him" verily is "the love of God" perfected: hereby (This is how we ) know we that we are in him.

It is past time that I bow out of this discussion. You are clearly more interested in justifying yourself and your adopted religion, than you are actually discussing what is actually written by the Spirit of the same Christ "many" claim to trust.

But God's Word does not return void, therefore I have hope that before it's too late, in the private confines of your heart, you might consider what God actually says, and join with the faithful examples of the Bible, like Caleb and Zacharias under the old priesthood, and Stephen and the early church of God under God's New Priesthood, who remained Faithful to God even when the religious world around them, "who professed to know God" were not.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Again, I was taught just as you were, by the religions of this world, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that God's Righteousness is Righteous, until I "Yield myself" to it, or as the rebellious Jews refused to do, "Submit myself" to His Righteousness. Then His Righteousness becomes a Filthy Rag to God. Can you not see the foolishness of such a teaching? And certainly God never ever promoted such a thing. But when in times past I walked according to the course of this world, I too, believed the same as you, that if I submit myself to God's Righteousness, it becomes a filthy rag to God. My Brother, lets look at the God Inspired Words of Isaiah together and see if we were taught the truth, or a deception about God's righteousness.

Is. 64:5 Thou "meetest him" that rejoiceth and "worketh righteousness", "those that remember thee" "in "thy" ways":

Well this doesn't look like a bad thing. Are we not told throughout the entire Bible, including the very Word's of Jesus Himself, to "Work Righteousness" and to remember to "Live By" God's Ways, not our own?

Listen to the Spirit of Christ in David.

Ps. 15:1 Who shall abide in thy tabernacle? "who" shall dwell in thy holy hill? 2 He that walketh uprightly, and "worketh righteousness", and speaketh the truth in his heart.

And to the Spirit of Christ in Peter;

Acts 10: 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and "worketh righteousness", is accepted with him.

And from the Spirit of Christ in John:

1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth (worketh) righteousness "is righteous", even as he (Jesus) "is righteous".

But what happened to the Jews? Did they "work God's Righteousness"? Or did they refuse to submit to God's Righteousness and went about establishing their own Righteousness?

Lets see what Isaiah actually said.

behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those (God's Righteousness) is continuance, and we shall be saved.

So did they repent? Did they "turn to God"?

Is. 64: 6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all "our" righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. 7 And there is none "that calleth upon thy name", that stirreth up himself "to take hold of thee": for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of "our iniquities".

So you see Capbook. God is not telling you that all His Righteousness are as "Filthy Rags" when a man submits himself to HIM, rather, "works of their righteousness" that they have done.

I will close with the Word's of the Jesus "of the Bible" Himself.

Matt. 13: 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom "of their Father". Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

This is only one of the many deceptions promoted by the "Many" who come in Christ's Name that Jesus said to "Take heed" of.

I truly hope that you will consider these things in the quiet moments of your personal study, and "come out of" the religious system of this world.

Many have been deceived into believing its WRONG to try and do good .
As though somehow that is evil .
THIS is evil , WHEN ONE TRIES to ATTAIN to RIGHTEOUNESS but not BY FAITH .
Self righteousness is what is evil . But to do good and to flee evil , THAT IS WHAT GOD has always desired we do .
TO HEED HIM . Yes . For finding fault with them , NOT HIS LAW , he said i will make a new covenant .
GOD always ordained we walk in good works . ITS JUST NOW IN CHRIST we become HIS WORKMAN SHIP
unto good works . As paul even says .
GOD never desired disobediance. for folks to beleive that desiring to do good is somehow evil
IS one scary thought . ITS the seeking righteousness WITHOUT faith that is the PROBLEM .
they did not attain to the righteousness of the law , for they sought it by their own works , NOT BY FAITH .
Abraham is a good example of FAITH WITH WORKS . TRUE FAITH . GOD said ABRAHAM BELEIVED
and ABRAHAM DID . that is faith . but many sought it by APPEARANCE , not in heart
They desired the worship of man , to be seen . JESUS exposes that heart .
And shows us what the true desire of GOD is . TO SIMPLY LOVE THE LORD , TO DO GOOD
to obey HIM from THE HEART . a true agape love of HOW GOD always desired to BE WORSHIPPED .
IN SPIRIT and IN TRUTH . but many seem to attack those
who correct sin and error and remind folks to BE doing good . Acting as if these are the legalists .
WHEN IN TRUTH they are the born again whose LOVE IS FOR GOD and for the peoples and desire
ALL GLORY and HONOR TO GOD and GOOD to the people .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Your sabbath, the Pharisees sabbath, the Catholic sabbath, they are all the same. They are the "works of men". I'm talking about God's Sabbath Commandment that Jesus walked in, God's instruction in Righteousness that Jesus obeyed. The Good works "God before ordained" that His People should walk in them. The people, according to Paul, who "Yield themselves" to God in these things, are the "people of God" according to what is written in the Holy Scriptures.

If you were as interested in actually seeking the truth of the Scriptures, as you are in justifying your adopted religion, you would have heard the inspired Words of Christ through the Hebrew author before he got to verse 9.

Heb. 4: 1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, "as well as unto them": but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith (Belief) in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom "it was first preached" entered not in because of unbelief:

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, "To" day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.



And yet, this world's religious system you are defending and justifying, have rejected God's judgments in favor of their own. They have rejected God's Sabbath, in favor of the Catholic sabbath. They have rejected the Statutes of God and created their own high days and definition of Holy. They have created an image of God in the likeness of man. This is undeniable truth. And now you are telling me all this is God's Will. What if the Word's of the Jesus "of the Bible" are true, and the religious system of this world you have adopted and are now defending, is the deceiver?

They preach the deception to all who will listen to them, that God was mad at Israel for striving to follow His Commands. And they preach the Pharisees and Abraham adopted and promoted the same religion that you call "Judaism". There is no end to the deception and cleaver lies, and subtle falsehoods they have promoted, since the other voice in the garden convinced Eve that God lied to her.

David in Psalms 14 and 5, and Paul who quoted him in Romans 3 tries to tell you the truth about this world's religion.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD. 5 There were they in great fear: for God is in "the generation of the righteous".



No Capbook. You defined "Judaism" as the Pharisees religion that Saul lived by and promoted according to his own words, "Wherein in time past he walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".

God despised the Pharisees religion, and Paul told us all, who would listen to him, that it was not the "Church of God". And in fact, it was a religious system who rejected and mocked the Righteousness of God, and mocked and persecuted the members of the Church of God, who "Yielded themselves" to Him, and their bodies as instruments of Righteousness unto Him, as it is to this day. And HE appointed His Son to be the Head of this Church, and commanded men to hearken unto Him. And HE told both you and I to "Live by" God's Word, not this world's religious system.

As for "Holy Convocation", here is what the Holy Spirit tells us.

Lev. 23: 3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

4 These are the feasts "of the LORD", even holy convocations, which ye (God's People) shall proclaim in their seasons.

And since you claim to believe John, here is what John says.

1 John 2: 3 And hereby "we do know" that we know him, if we keep "his commandments".

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not "his commandments", is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso ( Whosoever, anyone, everyone) keepeth his word, "in him" verily is "the love of God" perfected: hereby (This is how we ) know we that we are in him.

It is past time that I bow out of this discussion. You are clearly more interested in justifying yourself and your adopted religion, than you are actually discussing what is actually written by the Spirit of the same Christ "many" claim to trust.

But God's Word does not return void, therefore I have hope that before it's too late, in the private confines of your heart, you might consider what God actually says, and join with the faithful examples of the Bible, like Caleb and Zacharias under the old priesthood, and Stephen and the early church of God under God's New Priesthood, who remained Faithful to God even when the religious world around them, "who professed to know God" were not.

Correct , when paul was writing to the hebrews
THIS REST he spoke of what not about the earthen sabbath
it was about THIS REST . COME UNTO ME ALL YE WHO DO LABOR and are weary AND YE SHALL FIND
rest for your souls . Paul was writing about FAITH IN CHRIST , somehow some groups
got that one messed up . Sda perhaps and it seems some within the jewish movements .
UNBELIEF . paul spoke of UNBELIEF . ENTERING INTO HIS REST , BELIEF , BELEIF IN CHRIST .
Entering into works covenant , back under the law is not good , because no man can be justified by the law
but only exposed as the sinner they are my friend .
WHILE the law sure is HOLY and GOOD , by it CAN NO MAN be justified .
Added it was due to trangressions , due to GOD was amongst the people
and To keep the people safe , THE LAW was added TILL THE PROMISE CAME .
I mean if even a dead body was found actions in the law HAD to be performed TO KEEP the peoples safe .
GOD cannot dwell in evil and will DESTROY it . As even we see
the jews had to PUT THE BLOOD up on them doors OR THEY TOO would have BEEN DESTROYED BY GOD .
The law was added to this people , FOR GOD would be amongst them and lead them
BUT it was only temporary TILL THE PROMISE WOULD COME , HE WHO WOULD FULLFILL all righteousness
and create A NEW peoples , a new creature , and by HIS BLOOD they are covered , their sins NOT imputed unto them .
But we both know JESUS aint the minstir of sin , the trangressor of the law
SO this generation better watch out cause many sure seem to be following a SIN accepting ,UNBELIEF accepting
jesus . AND you understand WHY that jesus was not and shall not be captilized on my watch .
FOR IT IS NOT THE JESUS , its one who has come using that name to lead this people INTO TOTAL REBELLION
against CHRIST , against TRUTH , against HIS COVENANT and it has made the ROAD VERY BROAD INDEED .

 

[Studyman]

Do you imply that believer should be sinless?

Paul said; "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof"

The Jesus "of the bible" said to those whose sins He forgave, "now go and sin no more".

God through His Prophets said;

Ez. 18: Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Is God, and His Son, my Lord and Savior, the Jesus Christ "of the Bible", and Paul implying that a true believer be sinless?

Answer that question, and you will know my answer.

I believe it is possible if we always deny ourselves and follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit said not to create or partake of images of God in the likeness of anything, including men. The Holy Spirit said to "Be Holy as I am Holy" and gave us His Judgments. You can read about the Judgments Jesus walked in if you like.

Lev. 11: 45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt (SIN), to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

If we reject God's judgments and adopt a religion who has created their own, is that really deenying ourself, and following the guidance of the Holy Spirit?

Are you familiar with Ecc 7:20?
Eccl 7:20 Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.
NASB

Yes, I am familiar and I believe all that is written in the Law and prophets, like Jesus and Paul did. And yes, I have certainly sinned, and may sin again, although I strive against it. But if you want to know what is really hypocritical, really wicked, really dishonest, it is to claim to believe one verse inspired by God, to justify a religious philosophy that rejects God's Judgments, but then out of the same heart, completely reject, ignore and hide from Inspired Words of the SAME Prophet that can't be used to justify the same religious philosophy.

Truly God understands the heart of men, and this tactic proves that the heart is deceitful above all things.

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and "keep his commandments": for this is the "whole duty" of man. 14 For God shall bring every work "into judgment", with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Yes, it is not just the "other voice" but also the one within us. Does anyone excluded by the Bible text below?
Jer 17:9-10
9 "The heart is more deceitful than all else
And is desperately sick;
Who can understand it?
10 "I, the Lord, search the heart,
I test the mind,
NASB

So I just don't get your point here. If you know and believe the truth about your own heart, and God has shown you the way to "Rule over it", why do choose to adopt the philosophies of this world's religious system who, as Jeremiah warns in chapter 23, "and they say unto every one that "walketh after the imagination of his own heart", No evil shall come upon you.

Listen to Peter;

1 Pet. 4: 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous (Who fall short of the glory of God) scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore (Because of this Biblical Truth) let them that suffer (denying the flesh) according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls "to him in well doing", as unto a faithful Creator.

As I said, it's time to move on. But I sincerely hope in my heart, that you might consider all that is written, and follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit through Paul's teaching.

But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Your sabbath, the Pharisees sabbath, the Catholic sabbath, they are all the same. They are the "works of men". I'm talking about God's Sabbath Commandment that Jesus walked in, God's instruction in Righteousness that Jesus obeyed. The Good works "God before ordained" that His People should walk in them. The people, according to Paul, who "Yield themselves" to God in these things, are the "people of God" according to what is written in the Holy Scriptures.

If you were as interested in actually seeking the truth of the Scriptures, as you are in justifying your adopted religion, you would have heard the inspired Words of Christ through the Hebrew author before he got to verse 9.

Heb. 4: 1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, "as well as unto them": but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith (Belief) in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom "it was first preached" entered not in because of unbelief:

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, "To" day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.



And yet, this world's religious system you are defending and justifying, have rejected God's judgments in favor of their own. They have rejected God's Sabbath, in favor of the Catholic sabbath. They have rejected the Statutes of God and created their own high days and definition of Holy. They have created an image of God in the likeness of man. This is undeniable truth. And now you are telling me all this is God's Will. What if the Word's of the Jesus "of the Bible" are true, and the religious system of this world you have adopted and are now defending, is the deceiver?

They preach the deception to all who will listen to them, that God was mad at Israel for striving to follow His Commands. And they preach the Pharisees and Abraham adopted and promoted the same religion that you call "Judaism". There is no end to the deception and cleaver lies, and subtle falsehoods they have promoted, since the other voice in the garden convinced Eve that God lied to her.

David in Psalms 14 and 5, and Paul who quoted him in Romans 3 tries to tell you the truth about this world's religion.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD. 5 There were they in great fear: for God is in "the generation of the righteous".



No Capbook. You defined "Judaism" as the Pharisees religion that Saul lived by and promoted according to his own words, "Wherein in time past he walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".

God despised the Pharisees religion, and Paul told us all, who would listen to him, that it was not the "Church of God". And in fact, it was a religious system who rejected and mocked the Righteousness of God, and mocked and persecuted the members of the Church of God, who "Yielded themselves" to Him, and their bodies as instruments of Righteousness unto Him, as it is to this day. And HE appointed His Son to be the Head of this Church, and commanded men to hearken unto Him. And HE told both you and I to "Live by" God's Word, not this world's religious system.

As for "Holy Convocation", here is what the Holy Spirit tells us.

Lev. 23: 3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

4 These are the feasts "of the LORD", even holy convocations, which ye (God's People) shall proclaim in their seasons.

And since you claim to believe John, here is what John says.

1 John 2: 3 And hereby "we do know" that we know him, if we keep "his commandments".

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not "his commandments", is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso ( Whosoever, anyone, everyone) keepeth his word, "in him" verily is "the love of God" perfected: hereby (This is how we ) know we that we are in him.

It is past time that I bow out of this discussion. You are clearly more interested in justifying yourself and your adopted religion, than you are actually discussing what is actually written by the Spirit of the same Christ "many" claim to trust.

But God's Word does not return void, therefore I have hope that before it's too late, in the private confines of your heart, you might consider what God actually says, and join with the faithful examples of the Bible, like Caleb and Zacharias under the old priesthood, and Stephen and the early church of God under God's New Priesthood, who remained Faithful to God even when the religious world around them, "who professed to know God" were not.

Jesus kept the true sabbath , its the pharisees who did not .
When was it ever evil TO DO GOOD on the sabbath .
I want to give us an example of David and the shew bread .
Was it written the shewbread was for priests only . YES .
Now had king david been reinging over Jerusalem
and decided , HEY i am a kings kid , today i think i am just going to walk into the temple
and eat me some of that bread , cause hey i am a king . THAT WOULD have been EVIL .
But david didnt do that . HE and his men were in dire need of food .
NOW where is it written to do evil . IT AINT . IN fact we are to do good to those in need .
David and his men WERE IN NEED . JESUS uses this to show them their error .
In the law it was written you shall circumsize a male child on the eighth day .
A works .
HOWEVER notice if the eight day of said child fell on the SABBATH , they could perform this work
and BE GUILTLESS due to IT was told to do so .
And if a child could be circumsized on the sabbath to keep THE LAW
THEN A child could be made whole , healed on the sabbath . DOING good .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

It was the pharisees who did evil on the sabbath , NOT JESUS .
JESUS did good on the sabbath and healed and made whole
if a child was to be circumsized , a works , if their eighth day fell upon the sabbath
and would be guiltless
Then how is it evil to make one whole on the sabbath . THEY were the decieved , not JESUS .
JESUS did not trangress the sabbath , THEY DID .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Nice try the Father never says I am God. Another swing and a miss.

This can be tricky my friend . We both KNOW who JESUS IS
but it is made clear the FATHER is the FATHER .
I know its the same spirit my friend , just as GOD IS HIS WORD , HE IS HIS SPIRIT
But notice The thing that must be believed is HE IS THE SON OF GOD .
John never wrote and said he who beleives not that JESUS IS THE FATHER
HE said the SON .
HOWEVER dont think for one second i deny the diety . I DONT .
I have seen HIS OWN WORDS . saying I AM ALPHA and OMEGA , first and the last , beginning and the end .
GOD is HIS WORD , HE IS HIS SPIRIT . HIS WORD became flesh .
Oh i know there are many who deny the diety of Christ and they do so unto their own destruction .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Paul said; "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof"

The Jesus "of the bible" said to those whose sins He forgave, "now go and sin no more".

God through His Prophets said;

Ez. 18: Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Is God, and His Son, my Lord and Savior, the Jesus Christ "of the Bible", and Paul implying that a true believer be sinless?

Answer that question, and you will know my answer.



The Holy Spirit said not to create or partake of images of God in the likeness of anything, including men. The Holy Spirit said to "Be Holy as I am Holy" and gave us His Judgments. You can read about the Judgments Jesus walked in if you like.

Lev. 11: 45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt (SIN), to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

If we reject God's judgments and adopt a religion who has created their own, is that really deenying ourself, and following the guidance of the Holy Spirit?




Yes, I am familiar and I believe all that is written in the Law and prophets, like Jesus and Paul did. And yes, I have certainly sinned, and may sin again, although I strive against it. But if you want to know what is really hypocritical, really wicked, really dishonest, it is to claim to believe one verse inspired by God, to justify a religious philosophy that rejects God's Judgments, but then out of the same heart, completely reject, ignore and hide from Inspired Words of the SAME Prophet that can't be used to justify the same religious philosophy.

Truly God understands the heart of men, and this tactic proves that the heart is deceitful above all things.

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and "keep his commandments": for this is the "whole duty" of man. 14 For God shall bring every work "into judgment", with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.




So I just don't get your point here. If you know and believe the truth about your own heart, and God has shown you the way to "Rule over it", why do choose to adopt the philosophies of this world's religious system who, as Jeremiah warns in chapter 23, "and they say unto every one that "walketh after the imagination of his own heart", No evil shall come upon you.

Listen to Peter;

1 Pet. 4: 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous (Who fall short of the glory of God) scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore (Because of this Biblical Truth) let them that suffer (denying the flesh) according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls "to him in well doing", as unto a faithful Creator.

As I said, it's time to move on. But I sincerely hope in my heart, that you might consider all that is written, and follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit through Paul's teaching.

But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Jeremiah warns in chapter 23, "and they say unto every one that "walketh after the imagination of his own heart", No evil shall come upon you

WELL dont this look all too familiar . ITS Exactly what the false shepards hirelings have done unto this people
within christendom .
None does repent of his wickendness for they promise them life, or to be exact they promise them another jesus
that accepts their sins .