Who was the Book of John Addressed to?

[jeremiah1five]

Because I never heard of your view.

My question was - Are the born again Gentiles (no Jewish DNA) rot in hell?



Okay, thanks for honest answer.

I put my trust (for instance) on -
Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”
Gal 3:9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Be well.

These are not non-Hebrew Gentiles but mixed heritage Hebrews like Samaritans who are the descendants of the northern kingdom tribes and Gentiles. But they are also mixed Hebrews of the two southern kingdom tribes and Gentiles. God deliberately scattered His people as judgment among the Gentiles during the Assyrian and Babylonian conquest of Israel and Judah kingdoms, respectively. Jews called mixed heritage Jews of the northern kingdom and Gentiles as "Samaritan" and not "Jews" in the same attitude Jews call mixed heritage Jews and southern kingdom tribes and Gentiles as "Gentiles" and not called them "Jews." If a "remnant" of all Jews alive in 522 BC can be counted as 10% of all living Jews, then this means that the majority (90%) of all Jews living in this era remained in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture, even losing their practicing Jewish culture with many of their men never been circumcised because when the Jewish Temple(s) of the northern and southern kingdoms were destroyed the Mosaic religion was in recession and disarray because of these conquests and Exiles. This is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our sight and Jew-Gentile offspring began to be born after the rapes, concubinage, and slavery of the Jews for their disobedience to God in worshiping idols and other sins, sins that were in time covered by the blood of the lamb of God sent in due time to redeem His people Israel and Judah. From the Assyrian conquest of Israel in 722 BC and the Babylonian conquest of Judah in 586 BC the Abraham seed underwent a great many thousands upon thousands of mixed heritage offspring, which, unless God willed it, only Jews would be saved and not Gentiles so-called. There were 25-30 generations of Jews born from 722 BC to Christ and by living in Gentiles lands it would be very difficult to maintain the Hebrew culture living among idol-worshiping Gentiles.

And because of these facts right before Jesus ascended, He directed His eleven apostles to go into the four cardinal points of the compass (From Mount Olive Jerusalem is west, Samaria is north, Judah is south, and uttermost parts are east or towards the Orient) with a good news message which stated unequivocally this message to the Jews living in Gentile lands like the Galatian region and Ephesus that, God has kept His Promise. The Prophet like unto Moses had come and now God is calling all Israel of both kingdom and all twelve tribes to "Repent, for the kingdom of God is here!"

Saul, also, was sent by God into Gentile lands with the same message of redemption.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

These mixed heritage Jews of Gentile ancestry was ripe for a God-instigated revival of epic proportions. These mixed heritage Jews of Gentile ancestry were "in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ" Eph 2:11–13..

What do you suppose "in the flesh made by hands" means? And note the words "afar off." Where have we seen that term before? Yes, it was Peter in Acts 2:

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Acts 2:38–39.

The Holy Spirit of Promise was PROMISED TO ISRAEL by the prophet Joel. He wasn't promised to non-Hebrew Gentiles. Here is that promise and prophecy to Israel:

27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel,
And that I am the LORD your God, and none else:
And my people shall never be ashamed.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward,
That I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids
In those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth,
Blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
Before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered:
For in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance,
As the LORD hath said,
And in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
Joel 2:27–32.

This began on the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest (ca. AD 32) when over a million Jews living in Israel and from far away places came to Jerusalem in obedience to the LORD and on that day three thousand Jews and mixed heritage Jews of Gentile ancestry became born-again of the Holy Spirit of Promise as God promised through Joel, and thousands and thousands every day came to saving faith in Israel's Lord and Savior and King.

God keeps His Promises.
NOWHERE in Scripture did God promise His Spirit to non-Hebrew Gentiles.
NOWHERE in Scripture did the high priest under the Law of Moses pray or offer sacrifices for non-Hebrew Gentiles.
NOWHERE in Scripture did the high priest sprinkle non-Hebrew Gentiles with the sacrificial blood of the atoning sacrifice.
And Jesus Christ, lamb of God, neither did He. The last Passover Jesus tells the twelve disciples representing the twelve tribes of Israel that His body and blood are "given to you."
WHERE in Scripture did God make any salvation covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles as He did with Abram the Hebrew and his Hebrew seed?
WHERE in Scripture does it say, King of Gentiles as it does repeatedly King of Israel?

Tell me if you know.

 

[jeremiah1five]

LOL
Not for you to say J!
All those "show mes" sound more like a threat than a request.
But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since we can't see each other on these forums.
You sound like one of those persons that battle it out with others because they insist on being right
when everyone is telling them that they're not right.
It gets a person a little tired and they get a little ornery...it happens to all of us, I think.

Same thing happened to the prophets God sent to Israel.
They were told they were ornery, and wrong, and heretical, and other words not fit for a Christian site at this time.
As the days come to a close the intensity will increase and end with the two witnesses of Revelation 11. And it will be Gentiles along with Jews that will kill these two witnesses because they come with a message to a people to whom God sent strong delusion. I know who I am. I know what I am doing. But so did the prophets of God. I used to be a Jonah and went that-a-way when I was directed this way. And I suffered for my disobedience. Greatly. And my disobedience was such that God finally took everything from me.
Everything.
Every thing.

 

[jeremiah1five]

J....I'm going to ask again because it's an important question...
and I THINK I've stated my position.

IF you're saying that the Abrahamic Covenant was made ONLY with Abraham and no Gentiles,,,
then you're right.

IF you're saying that the Covenant did not INCLUDE Gentiles,,,then you're not right because God meant to include
ALL NATIONS...IOW....all PEOPLE EVERYWHERE....in the future...which would, of course, be the New Covenant.

This is the New Covenant.

Pay attention to who God enjoins in this covenant and then come back here and make your necessary corrections.


27 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah
With the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them,
To pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down,
And to destroy, and to afflict;
So will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.
29 In those days they shall say no more,
The fathers have eaten a sour grape,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge.
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity:
Every man that eateth the sour grape,
His teeth shall be set on edge.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:27–34.

The New Covenant is made by God between God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah.
Does it say "nations" or "Gentiles"?
Whose sin is being addressed and forgiven?

Just answer me this ONE QUESTION:

Jeremiah 31:31-34 is the prophecy of God making a New Covenant.

WHO are the parties included in this covenant?

You either take the Scripture as written or you will add to the Bible things not there.

What do you do?

 

[GodsGrace]

Same thing happened to the prophets God sent to Israel.
They were told they were ornery, and wrong, and heretical, and other words not fit for a Christian site at this time.

Yes J....but you're not a prophet of God like they were.
We're supposed to be gathering the sheep not separating them.
I don't know for sure if you're wrong...I'm just now beginning to understand your position.

As the days come to a close the intensity will increase and end with the two witnesses of Revelation 11. And it will be Gentiles along with Jews that will kill these two witnesses because they come with a message to a people to whom God sent strong delusion. I know who I am. I know what I am doing. But so did the prophets of God. I used to be a Jonah and went that-a-way when I was directed this way.

I agree. We shouldn't be a Jonah and should be willing to announce the word of God....
but I think it should be the gospel message and it SOUNDS like you're excluding a lot of people.
I might be wrong.

And I suffered for my disobedience. Greatly. And my disobedience was such that God finally took everything from me.
Everything.
Every thing.

I dislike to say that God took anything away from us, although, ultimately, nothing happens that He does not ALLOW to happen.
But what happens to us does, to me, seem to be brought about in a natural way by not obeying the rules of God, which disobedience always ends up doing us harm.
I am very sorry that you lost everything and I pray that you remain close to God, as it seems to me that you are.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Yes J....but you're not a prophet of God like they were. We're supposed to be gathering the sheep not separating them.

I think you're infected with an erroneous false Gentile theology and not a biblical theology. All prophets did two things foundational to their ministry. You don't know me; therefore, you cannot judge. But you will try to apply your false understanding of a prophet of God beyond their practical existence.
A prophet is called of God. Not every prophet has the same calling. Nor do they all have the same authority. Then, there is the variable of their spiritual gifts, their personality also plays a part. Then, their experience and self-exploratory education also defines the prophet. Besides this, there are 'pounds' and 'talents', or natural gifts and abilities.

And no, prophets are not "supposed to gathering the sheep." Some prophets were sent to divide the people and they divided the people into truth and error (or lies.) The people killed all God's prophets they were sent to minister. And it's not always to gather sheep. Prophets were killed in the extreme based upon the debauchery of the people and the laxity of the laws guiding their behavior. The prophets were killed because they held a seemingly "minority" belief. The people strayed so far from God that when a prophet did appear their prophecies of truth contrasted against the people's lies and delusions and false doctrine. But all the prophets share one reality and that was when a prophet appeared judgment was not far behind. Jesus was a Prophet. Part of His Ministry was to divide the sheep from the goats and this faculty was a natural occurrence because of the truth they spoke. Take Jeremiah. Look at what God instructed him to do:

10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant. Jeremiah 1:10.

And if you were among those Jeremiah prophesied against you would accuse him of exactly those things because the people all thought as you do, that prophets are all the same and were to "gather the sheep." But for the most part the prophets did two things: they fore-tell and they forth-tell. And their foretelling was only their ability to "read the room" and exercise insight into the eventual direction of the people if they didn't correct their paths back to God. Some were given dreams and visions, and some were not. So, you might think I am wrong or saying things that are not biblical of that I am incorrect, the truth of the matter is that once the mixed heritage Hebrews who grew up in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture and survived the Jewish-Roman wars, because they were not taught their Hebrew culture, their religion, and yes, the Law of Moses, it was very easy for them because of their lack of Jewish upbringing unmoored true, biblical Christianity from its Hebrew roots, then Jewish Christianity of the bible decreased while their Gentile mindset increased upon the things of God and soon the Jewish flavor of Christianity by default of their ignorance of the Law of Moses became Gentile misunderstanding.

I don't know for sure if you're wrong...I'm just now beginning to understand your position.
I agree. We shouldn't be a Jonah and should be willing to announce the word of God....
but I think it should be the gospel message and it SOUNDS like you're excluding a lot of people.
I might be wrong.

No, we are not all supposed to "preach the gospel." We do not all have the same calling. We are not all apostles sent "into the world" to preach Jesus or the gospel. Our first duty is to wait on the Lord, soak up biblical teaching and theology, mind our own business, and to always be ready to give an answer to those that ask of the hope in you. And if they are not asking, then to say NOTHING! But pastors and other folk who have access to a pulpit teach the people that all the people are supposed to "preach the gospel" and to tell everyone they meet about Jesus. But that is false teaching. We are all not 'mouths' in the body of Christ. If we are all supposed to 'preach' (a function of the mouth), then were is the hearing, or the foot or hands in the body of Christ?

I dislike to say that God took anything away from us, although, ultimately, nothing happens that He does not ALLOW to happen.
But what happens to us does, to me, seem to be brought about in a natural way by not obeying the rules of God, which disobedience always ends up doing us harm.
I am very sorry that you lost everything and I pray that you remain close to God, as it seems to me that you are.

What did Saul say? What did he say about counting everything as dung (excrement/crap) so that he may win Christ? But that thinking is what I was left with after God took every thing from me. No, I wasn't materialistic. Things were not my god. And I appreciate the "sorrow", but instead give God the glory, praise Him. At least do that instead of looking at what I may have lost and instead to what I gained. And I'll leave it there. Just don't discount what I say because it goes against what you think you know. All I ask is that you consider it and the things I say. It may not be an echo of what you've been taught or what you think you've learned, and for now put it in the backburner of your mind. All I do is plant and water. God (in His time) will bring the increase. You are at your preordained 'level' and I am at mine. If what I say is the truth of God then He will water my seeds or else the ground in not good. But there is nothing wrong with the seed.

 

[GodsGrace]

This is the New Covenant.

Pay attention to who God enjoins in this covenant and then come back here and make your necessary corrections.


27 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah
With the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them,
To pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down,
And to destroy, and to afflict;
So will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.
29 In those days they shall say no more,
The fathers have eaten a sour grape,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge.
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity:
Every man that eateth the sour grape,
His teeth shall be set on edge.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:27–34.

The New Covenant is made by God between God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah.
Does it say "nations" or "Gentiles"?
Whose sin is being addressed and forgiven?

Agreed. In Jeremiah 31 God is making a Covenant with Israel.

Just answer me this ONE QUESTION:

Jeremiah 31:31-34 is the prophecy of God making a New Covenant.

WHO are the parties included in this covenant?

You either take the Scripture as written or you will add to the Bible things not there.

What do you do?

I take the scriptures as written and do not add to scripture.
I find too many incorrect doctrine do this and we're specifically told not to by John.

So in Jeremiah 31:31-34 God is speaking about making a New Covenant with the Jewish people.
He will write the law on their hearts and it will no longer be on stone...
the law vs the spirit.

So please answer these questions:
1. Are you saying that Gentiles are not included in the New Covenant?
(I'm sorry I don't read every post on every thread).

2. Could you please explain what Genesis 17:6 means to you? (The Nations spoken of).

3. With whom is the New Covenant made?

4. What does Luke 22:20 mean? Matthew and Mark call it the Covenant...is there a difference between that and Luke's New Covenant?

 

[Red Baker]

I posted to @jeremiah1five a very good post with information he could have used ....
but, I see from his post to me no. 368, that he's a rather ornery fellow.

Fran, I do not think he would be a good partner to have a cup cappuccino with....

But I love cappuccino, just too far to come.

 

[Red Baker]

Agreed. In Jeremiah 31 God is making a Covenant with Israel.


I take the scriptures as written and do not add to scripture.
I find too many incorrect doctrine do this and we're specifically told not to by John.

So in Jeremiah 31:31-34 God is speaking about making a New Covenant with the Jewish people.
He will write the law on their hearts and it will no longer be on stone...
the law vs the spirit.

So please answer these questions:
1. Are you saying that Gentiles are not included in the New Covenant?
(I'm sorry I don't read every post on every thread).

2. Could you please explain what Genesis 17:6 means to you? (The Nations spoken of).

3. With whom is the New Covenant made?

4. What does Luke 22:20 mean? Matthew and Mark call it the Covenant...is there a difference between that and Luke's New Covenant?

I'll come back to these thread tomorrow.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think you're infected with an erroneous false Gentile theology and not a biblical theology. All prophets did two things foundational to their ministry. You don't know me; therefore, you cannot judge. But you will try to apply your false understanding of a prophet of God beyond their practical existence.
A prophet is called of God. Not every prophet has the same calling. Nor do they all have the same authority. Then, there is the variable of their spiritual gifts, their personality also plays a part. Then, their experience and self-exploratory education also defines the prophet. Besides this, there are 'pounds' and 'talents', or natural gifts and abilities.

And no, prophets are not "supposed to gathering the sheep." Some prophets were sent to divide the people and they divided the people into truth and error (or lies.) The people killed all God's prophets they were sent to minister. And it's not always to gather sheep. Prophets were killed in the extreme based upon the debauchery of the people and the laxity of the laws guiding their behavior. The prophets were killed because they held a seemingly "minority" belief. The people strayed so far from God that when a prophet did appear their prophecies of truth contrasted against the people's lies and delusions and false doctrine. But all the prophets share one reality and that was when a prophet appeared judgment was not far behind. Jesus was a Prophet. Part of His Ministry was to divide the sheep from the goats and this faculty was a natural occurrence because of the truth they spoke. Take Jeremiah. Look at what God instructed him to do:

10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant. Jeremiah 1:10.

And if you were among those Jeremiah prophesied against you would accuse him of exactly those things because the people all thought as you do, that prophets are all the same and were to "gather the sheep." But for the most part the prophets did two things: they fore-tell and they forth-tell. And their foretelling was only their ability to "read the room" and exercise insight into the eventual direction of the people if they didn't correct their paths back to God. Some were given dreams and visions, and some were not. So, you might think I am wrong or saying things that are not biblical of that I am incorrect, the truth of the matter is that once the mixed heritage Hebrews who grew up in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture and survived the Jewish-Roman wars, because they were not taught their Hebrew culture, their religion, and yes, the Law of Moses, it was very easy for them because of their lack of Jewish upbringing unmoored true, biblical Christianity from its Hebrew roots, then Jewish Christianity of the bible decreased while their Gentile mindset increased upon the things of God and soon the Jewish flavor of Christianity by default of their ignorance of the Law of Moses became Gentile misunderstanding.


No, we are not all supposed to "preach the gospel." We do not all have the same calling. We are not all apostles sent "into the world" to preach Jesus or the gospel. Our first duty is to wait on the Lord, soak up biblical teaching and theology, mind our own business, and to always be ready to give an answer to those that ask of the hope in you. And if they are not asking, then to say NOTHING! But pastors and other folk who have access to a pulpit teach the people that all the people are supposed to "preach the gospel" and to tell everyone they meet about Jesus. But that is false teaching. We are all not 'mouths' in the body of Christ. If we are all supposed to 'preach' (a function of the mouth), then were is the hearing, or the foot or hands in the body of Christ?

What did Saul say? What did he say about counting everything as dung (excrement/crap) so that he may win Christ? But that thinking is what I was left with after God took every thing from me. No, I wasn't materialistic. Things were not my god. And I appreciate the "sorrow", but instead give God the glory, praise Him. At least do that instead of looking at what I may have lost and instead to what I gained. And I'll leave it there. Just don't discount what I say because it goes against what you think you know. All I ask is that you consider it and the things I say. It may not be an echo of what you've been taught or what you think you've learned, and for now put it in the backburner of your mind. All I do is plant and water. God (in His time) will bring the increase. You are at your preordained 'level' and I am at mine. If what I say is the truth of God then He will water my seeds or else the ground in not good. But there is nothing wrong with the seed.

Yes J.
You like the sound of your own voice.
You're not my teacher and being taught by you is not why I'm here.

I asked you very specific questions....
If you care to respond to them....I can continue....
otherwise...I bid you farewell.

AND REMEMBER THIS:
John the Baptist was THE LAST PROPHET.

Some churches claim to have APOSTLES...
Some churches claim to have PROPHETS...

These are really odd churches which should not be attended by anyone.
NO MORE APOSTELS.
NO MORE PROPHETS.

And, it's rather interesting that you can't seem to just stick to the topic
but have to show your pride at being a "prophet".
I think pride is a sin.

 

[GodsGrace]

Fran, I do not think he would be a good partner to have a cup cappuccino with....

But I love cappuccino, just too far to come.

I would have to agree with you.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'll come back to these thread tomorrow.

OK
But please stop giving me the talk on Calvinism.
It's an incredibly illogical and blasphemous religion.
I understand why so many just really dislike it.
IT CHANGES THE CHARACTER OF GOD.
I don't think He'll be too happy about this.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Agreed. In Jeremiah 31 God is making a Covenant with Israel.
I take the scriptures as written and do not add to scripture.
I find too many incorrect doctrine do this and we're specifically told not to by John.

If you agree, why do you still insist [non-Hebrew] Gentiles are in the New Covenant with God and Israel?

So in Jeremiah 31:31-34 God is speaking about making a New Covenant with the Jewish people.
He will write the law on their hearts and it will no longer be on stone...
the law vs the spirit.

Correct again.

So please answer these questions:
1. Are you saying that Gentiles are not included in the New Covenant?
(I'm sorry I don't read every post on every thread).

I'm not saying it, Scripture is. Or, should I say, Scripture isn't saying it.
More to the point, it's what is NOT in Scripture that is of great significance and import, especially about covenant and salvation. And before I engage on these things let me first be clear that when I speak about "Scripture" I am talking about the Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets, from Genesis to Malachi (the order of our western world bibles.)

I believe we must differentiate between what's known as the Old Testament and the New Testament. One difference is that the Hebrew Scripture came about in just over a millennium. The New Testament in about five to six decades. Another point is the Hebrew Scripture was written and stored/possessed by the Hebrew people. The New Testament, although the writers were of Hebrew/Jewish descent, was gathered and kept together as a book, or collection of "books" by non-Hebrew Gentiles in the fourth century. But a case can also be made that the fourth century Christians were of mixed Hebrew ancestry (Abraham's seed) and not non-Hebrew Gentiles.

Now, the New Testament are scripture (lower-case "s") as script-ure per se, but other than Luke and Revelation do God command things be written down and/or taught to people as a memorial (song of Moses, et.al.) or other preserved record for safekeeping as done with the Old Testament. Then there are the compositions or writings themselves. There are four "gospels" and epistles or personal letters, and one prophecy (Revelations.)
I seriously doubt that Peter's, Saul's, Jude, James, and John's letters were aware that over three hundred years later some others would collect their letters and make a "book" for the main reason to combat false doctrine. The Old Testament wasn't preserved for this reason. There was no urgency in compiling the existence of the Old Testament. The New Testament was another matter.

2. Could you please explain what Genesis 17:6 means to you? (The Nations spoken of).

I'd have to do that in conjunction with at least one other "verse" for context and use it together with verse seven.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Genesis 17:6–7.

I presume you're looking at the word "nations" which you take to mean "Gentiles." but at the time it was used historically it didn't mean "Gentiles." Strong defines the word to mean "masses" as in animal or people.

nation: gôy [H#1471] rarely (shortened) goy, go’-ee; apparently from the same root as [H#1465] (gevah) (in the sense of massing.) <---- meaning.

But as to your verse let me answer that at the time of its use by Moses "nation" did not mean Gentile. And one reason is that Gentiles, or non-Hebrews were born from Japheth and Ham. "Goy" [singular] and its plural "goyim" merely means "massing" of people, or a lot of people. A great number, God says.

"Nations" is also used in a verse in which God is addressing Sarai, Abe's wife who was also his half-sister. Abraham was born from Noah's other son named Shem.

To trace Abraham's lineage back to Eber, we primarily rely on the genealogical records found in the book of Genesis, particularly in chapters 10 and 11. Here's a breakdown:

• Abraham:
  • Abraham's father was Terah.
• Terah:
  • Terah's father was Nahor.
• Nahor:
  • Nahor's father was Serug.
    
• Serug:
  • Serug's father was Reu.
    
• Reu:
  • Reu's father was Peleg.
    
• Peleg:
  • Peleg's father was Eber.

Therefore, the lineage is: Abraham -> Terah -> Nahor -> Serug -> Reu -> Peleg -> Eber.

Key points to remember:

• This lineage is part of a larger genealogical record that traces back to Noah and ultimately to Adam.
  
  
• Eber is a significant figure, as the term "Hebrew" is believed to be derived from his name.
  
  
• It is also very important to note that the lineage continues further back from Eber, to Shem, and then to Noah.

And before Genesis 17:6 God was already separating Abraham's grandfathers and great grandfathers from the rest of the Adamites. Here's Sarai's lineage:

Tracing Sarai's (Sarah's) lineage back to Eber involves navigating the genealogical records within the Book of Genesis. Here's what we can glean:

• Sarai's Relationship to Abraham:
  
  • Genesis 20:12 indicates that Sarai was Abraham's half-sister, the daughter of his father Terah, but not of his mother. This is a crucial point for tracing her lineage.
  • Therefore, Sarai's lineage is tied to Terah's.
• Terah's Lineage:
  
  • Terah's lineage, as recorded in Genesis 11, traces back through:
    • Terah
    • Nahor
    • Serug
    • Reu
    • Peleg
    • Eber
• Therefore:
  • Because Sarai is Terah's daughter, she shares that same ancestral line leading back to Eber.

In essence, Sarai's connection to Eber is through her father, Terah, and the genealogical line that Genesis provides for him.

12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife. Gen. 20:12.

Sarai was Abe's half-sister. She was from the family of Eber. Both were Hebrew (Eber.) Thus, "nations" cannot mean "Gentile" at this time because the first reason is that non-Hebrew Gentiles do not "come out of thee" (Abe and Sarai.) So, part of Abraham's covenant blessings is that God would make him a great nation or "massing" of people and make his name great in the earth. The other reason is that non-Hebrew Gentiles are not born to two Hebrew parents (Abe and Sarah.) It's biologically impossible. If I'm Mexican and my wife is Mexican, and we have a child the child will not be a Chinese baby but a Mexican baby. Ya falla?

3. With whom is the New Covenant made?

You answered it correctly above when you said Jews/Jewish people.
The New Covenant is with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. There are no Gentiles mentioned or named in the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah 31:31-34.

4. What does Luke 22:20 mean? Matthew and Mark call it the Covenant...is there a difference between that and Luke's New Covenant?

20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Luke 22:20.

Nope. No difference. What Jesus is doing is establishing the New Covenant in His blood as the lamb of God, But for accuracy the New Covenant began on the Jewish Feast of Harvest (Pentecost ca. AD 32.) On this day three thousand Jews were born-again.

All the New Covenant is, is the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The New Covenant of Jeremiah is wrapped around the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. In the New Covenant of Jeremiah is Jesus Christ fulfilling the Law by which God forgives Israel their sin. Jeremiah declares God forgiving Israel's sin and He does this through the work of Jesus Christ on the cross and empty tomb.
Now all that is left is for God to send His disciples and messengers to herald to the Jews living in Gentile lands that God has kept His Promises and that Israel's Messiah had come.

 

[Red Baker]

OK
But please stop giving me the talk on Calvinism.
It's an incredibly illogical and blasphemous religion.
I understand why so many just really dislike it.
IT CHANGES THE CHARACTER OF GOD.
I don't think He'll be too happy about this.

@GodsGrace

I very seldom defend Calvinism per se, but what I do teach (if it is Calvinism to some,) though I call it the faithful testimony of God revealed in his word, does not in any way whatsoever change the character of God, but rather emphasizes and clarifies God's inherent sovereignty and his attributes that most neglect and refuses to preach.

I know that God is much more angry with those who preach a defeated, powerless, etc., Godhead.

One more thing: since I do not defend a man's name, doctrine, etc., neither do I require others to believe in Calvinism before I would accept them as children of God, I accept other's faith base on their faith in the scriptures, and their zeal, fear, and love for God, and godly living, and go from there. There are some on both sides of this debate (Calvinism/Arminianism) that quite frankly, I would not fellowship with, or even acknowledge them as brethren!

 

[jeremiah1five]

Yes J.
You like the sound of your own voice.

Believe me, I don't mumble or talk out the words I post. I am always in a quiet, contemplative frame of mind and usually focused on what I type because all my comments are the result of looking at the keyboard and typing using only my two index fingers.

You're not my teacher and being taught by you is not why I'm here.

That's true, I am not. And I am not given the ministry of teacher in the body of Christ.

I asked you very specific questions....
If you care to respond to them....I can continue....
otherwise...I bid you farewell.

And those questions are?

AND REMEMBER THIS:
John the Baptist was THE LAST PROPHET.

Under the Law Jesus Christ is the last Prophet. John was older than Jesus and born first by about six months.
But under the New Covenant the prophet has pivoted from that of the Old Testament prophets and all five ministries of the hand of God and body of Christ exist today among the brethren. But let me be clear because I seriously doubt you understand the spiritual gifts in the body of Christ. As a matter of fact those that deny the existence of the five ministries of the hand of God in the body of Christ deny the life of Jesus Christ in that body and denying the existence of Christ in the body of Christ makes a person an antichrist.

Some churches claim to have APOSTLES...
Some churches claim to have PROPHETS...

These are really odd churches which should not be attended by anyone.
NO MORE APOSTELS.
NO MORE PROPHETS.

As agreed, I am not your teacher, but I'm going to teach you something about the body of Christ and let's see if you are a wise and good student, a wise and good disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ. I think a good and true disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ will receive something of what I'm about to post so these things are not necessarily for you.

The five gift ministries in the body of Christ - of which the apostle and prophet are part of - is found here:

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:11.

Each of these five gift ministries correspond to a digit in the hand of the body of Christ. The thumb represents the apostle; the index or pointing finger represents the prophet; the middle or 'long' finger represents the evangelist; the ring finger represents the pastor/shepherd; and the pinkie or little finger represents the teacher. The hand in Scripture represents 'service' or 'service rendered.' And these five gift ministries represent 'service' in the body of Christ. Ephesians 4:11 Saul lists these five spiritual gift ministries in the body of Christ and the following verses 12-16 describe who receives this service of ministries: believers in the body of Christ. As the following passages indicate these five gift ministries are to and for the body of Christ. They are NOT for the world of unbelievers.

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Eph. 4:12

These five gift ministries of service are to and for:

1. perfecting of the saints - NOT for perfecting the world.
2. the work of the ministry - NOT for the work of the world.
3. for the edifying of the body of Christ - NOT for the edification of the world.

In effect, spiritual gifts for a spiritual people.
And all five are the gifts of the Holy Spirit and each ministry represent Christ to His body. These are ALL the life of Christ to and for His body.

Christ is the Apostle:
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; Heb 3:1.

Christ is Prophet:
11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.
Matt. 21:11.

Christ is Evangelist:
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mk 1:14–15.

Christ is Pastor/Shepherd:
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
John 10:14.

Christ is Teacher:
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
John 3:1–2.

A born-again believer is a vessel by which they have the Spirit of Christ dwelling in them. All five gift ministries are the life of Christ in the person. Christ is Apostle, not the believer; Christ is Prophet, not the person; Christ is Evangelist, not the person and so on. And all five gift ministries are the life of Christ in His Church, the body of Christ. God's purpose of gifting His body these five ministries are as what Ephesians 4: 11 says:

for the perfecting of the saints,
for the work of the ministry,
for the edifying of the body of Christ.

They are not for the unbelieving world of unsaved people. And since Pentecost God has been gifting His Church and Body Himself in these particular ministries to and for the body of Christ. God's reasons for doing so is found in the passages below:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Eph 4:12–16.

These five gift ministries are the life of Christ in His Church and body so that we may grow and we all "come in the unity of the faith, that we henceforth be no more children." That, among the others listed in this verse are the purpose of these gifts. To grow UP in Christ.

So, to deny the existence of the apostle or prophet is to deny the life of Christ in His Church and the persons or people that deny the life of Christ in His Church and Body are antichrist. As I said, each digit of the hand of God represents one of these five gift ministries and this is most practical. Christ is the Head. IF there are no apostles and prophets in the body of Christ then this means there are no thumb and pointing finger in the hand of God. Try to pick something up off the floor without a thumb. The opposable thumb is a thing of miracle for man is the only creature on God's green earth that has an opposable thumb. Without the thumb/apostle the hand of God in the body is deformed and unable to function as God intended.

Some might disagree, even with your erroneous belief that there are no more apostles of prophets after John the Baptist. Then again you believe Saul/Paul was an apostle and he says so. Personally, the twelve disciples of the lamb are covenant-saved and with Jesus right now in glory. I also believe Saul/Paul is also an apostle. I also believe that since Pentecost and as soon as the Jewish Christians began to understand the New Covenant era the Jews found themselves in that the Lord has called some in His Church to be an apostle, and also an evangelist, pastor and teacher. And there were other apostles in the Church thereafter. Epaphroditus was one. So were Junias and the others Saul names in Romans 16. Some erroneously believe Saul 'replaced' Judas and became the thirteenth apostle. Well, that too is error. God and His Christ do not replace, they add.

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Acts 2:47.

Now, the Greek word for apostle is "apostolos" and it only means "commissioned." Commissioned to do what? Well, that depends. Yet the main point is that no matter who God calls and what they are commissioned (authorized) to do it is Christ that works in the believer to do God's will. Sadly, many Christians who come to faith might have John MacArthur's NKJV Study Bible. He denies in the commentary part of his study bible at Ephesians 4:11 and 1 Corinthians 12, and 14 denies the apostle and prophet in the Church today and this also makes him an antichrist to deny contrary to Scripture the life of Christ in His people. Well, some years ago I called him out on it. He never responded.

And, it's rather interesting that you can't seem to just stick to the topic
but have to show your pride at being a "prophet".
I think pride is a sin.

All true born-again believers who are indwelt of the Holy Spirit cannot have pride. If they are waking up every day seeking God in prayer and Scripture, believe me, that person is humble. Being humble under the influence of the Spirit keeps one humble. Pride is of the flesh. And since you don't know me, you cannot judge righteous judgment about my spirit, attitude, and character. See, what God gives me by way of understanding Scripture and the knowledge He gives me only serves to keep me humble. The knowledge I possess is all given and revealed to me by the Spirit. At any rate I hope you learn something about the Body of Christ.
And stop denying Christ.

 

[ProDeo]

Nope. No difference. What Jesus is doing is establishing the New Covenant in His blood as the lamb of God, But for accuracy the New Covenant began on the Jewish Feast of Harvest (Pentecost ca. AD 32.) On this day three thousand Jews were born-again.

Speculation and false also.

Acts 2:9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
Acts 2:10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome,
Acts 2:11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.”

proselytes are non born Jews but gentiles converted to Judaism.

Acts 2:16 But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel:
Acts 2:17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;

It does not say - And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all [Jewish] flesh, it says all flesh and all = all.

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’

It does not say - And it shall come to pass that every Jew who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, the word everyone excludes exceptions, does not allow changes, everyone = everyone.

Acts 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

And there you go again adding / changing Scripture.

Scripture does not say Jews but souls.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace

I very seldom defend Calvinism per se, but what I do teach (if it is Calvinism to some,) though I call it the faithful testimony of God revealed in his word, does not in any way whatsoever change the character of God, but rather emphasizes and clarifies God's inherent sovereignty and his attributes that most neglect and refuses to preach.

RB....A rose by any other name.....
I think you know that one.

It doesn't matter what you call yourself...you follow the teachings of John Calvin, and other reformed/calvinist theologians.
If you want to believe what John Calvin taught...then at least own up to it.
Admit it and defend your beliefs.
But you can't say you're not calvinist....
preach/teach calvinism....
and keep insisting that you're not what you teach.
YOU ARE what you teach.
If you teach Calvinism....
you're a calvinist.
It's that simple.

And how does Calvinism change the character of God?
Let's see:

The bible teaches that God is:
LOVING
MERCIFUL
JUST

I could list tens of verses if necessary, but I've found it doesn't help at all.
So, basically we would just have to agree on this.
Is God a loving God?
I'd go further and say that GOD IS LOVE, just as John stated in 1 John 4:8.
It's not that God HAS love in Him....
GOD IS LOVE.

Is God a merciful God?
Was He merciful throughout history?
Was it His mercy for us, His creation, that caused Him to make a plan
of salvation after Adam fell?
Was He merciful to the Israelites who built the golden calf?
Was God merciful to Nineveh?
GOD IS MERCIFUL.

Is God a just God?
Does God give to everyone what they deserve?
Or not?
This is justice.
GOD IS JUST.

Now let's look at Calvinism...which is what you believe to be the truth.

God, in calvinism, is neither love nor mercy.
He is not a loving or merciful God.
A God that would create humans just to send them to hell for no reason
except for His own good pleasure....is certainly not a loving or merciful God.
He shows no love for those that HE created....
No mercy for us.
We are at the hands of a maniac who is all-powerful.
A being that will do as He pleases with His creatures and has no pity on them.
This is the God of calvinism.

God, in calvinism, is not just.
A just God gives to every person what that person deserves.
This is what just means.
If God chooses some for heaven and some for hell,
BASED ON NOTHING AT ALL....
is this justice?
No....it is not.
The God of calvinism is not a just God.

Calvinism changes the character of God.
The God YOU teach does not exist.
And we could be thankful that He does not.

And what must God think of the persons that make Him out to be
UNLOVING, UNMERCIFUL, and UNJUST?

I know that God is much more angry with those who preach a defeated, powerless, etc., Godhead.

And who would that be RB?
Who IN CHRISTIANDOM, believes in a powerless God?
I haven't met that person yet.
Many atheists do....but no Christian.

Do you know the 3 omnis?
Of course you do.
It's what ALL OF CHRISTIANITY believes about God.
OMNISCIENT
OMNIPRESENT
OMNIPOTENT

One more thing: since I do not defend a man's name, doctrine, etc., neither do I require others to believe in Calvinism before I would accept them as children of God, I accept other's faith base on their faith in the scriptures, and their zeal, fear, and love for God, and godly living, and go from there. There are some on both sides of this debate (Calvinism/Arminianism) that quite frankly, I would not fellowship with, or even acknowledge them as brethren!

Oh. So now you DO believe in Calvinism?
Yes. Be honest about it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Believe me, I don't mumble or talk out the words I post. I am always in a quiet, contemplative frame of mind and usually focused on what I type because all my comments are the result of looking at the keyboard and typing using only my two index fingers.

That's true, I am not. And I am not given the ministry of teacher in the body of Christ.

And those questions are?

Under the Law Jesus Christ is the last Prophet. John was older than Jesus and born first by about six months.
But under the New Covenant the prophet has pivoted from that of the Old Testament prophets and all five ministries of the hand of God and body of Christ exist today among the brethren. But let me be clear because I seriously doubt you understand the spiritual gifts in the body of Christ. As a matter of fact those that deny the existence of the five ministries of the hand of God in the body of Christ deny the life of Jesus Christ in that body and denying the existence of Christ in the body of Christ makes a person an antichrist.

As agreed, I am not your teacher, but I'm going to teach you something about the body of Christ and let's see if you are a wise and good student, a wise and good disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ. I think a good and true disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ will receive something of what I'm about to post so these things are not necessarily for you.

The five gift ministries in the body of Christ - of which the apostle and prophet are part of - is found here:

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:11.

Each of these five gift ministries correspond to a digit in the hand of the body of Christ. The thumb represents the apostle; the index or pointing finger represents the prophet; the middle or 'long' finger represents the evangelist; the ring finger represents the pastor/shepherd; and the pinkie or little finger represents the teacher. The hand in Scripture represents 'service' or 'service rendered.' And these five gift ministries represent 'service' in the body of Christ. Ephesians 4:11 Saul lists these five spiritual gift ministries in the body of Christ and the following verses 12-16 describe who receives this service of ministries: believers in the body of Christ. As the following passages indicate these five gift ministries are to and for the body of Christ. They are NOT for the world of unbelievers.

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Eph. 4:12

These five gift ministries of service are to and for:

1. perfecting of the saints - NOT for perfecting the world.
2. the work of the ministry - NOT for the work of the world.
3. for the edifying of the body of Christ - NOT for the edification of the world.

In effect, spiritual gifts for a spiritual people.
And all five are the gifts of the Holy Spirit and each ministry represent Christ to His body. These are ALL the life of Christ to and for His body.

Christ is the Apostle:
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; Heb 3:1.

Christ is Prophet:
11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.
Matt. 21:11.

Christ is Evangelist:
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mk 1:14–15.

Christ is Pastor/Shepherd:
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
John 10:14.

Christ is Teacher:
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
John 3:1–2.

A born-again believer is a vessel by which they have the Spirit of Christ dwelling in them. All five gift ministries are the life of Christ in the person. Christ is Apostle, not the believer; Christ is Prophet, not the person; Christ is Evangelist, not the person and so on. And all five gift ministries are the life of Christ in His Church, the body of Christ. God's purpose of gifting His body these five ministries are as what Ephesians 4: 11 says:

for the perfecting of the saints,
for the work of the ministry,
for the edifying of the body of Christ.

They are not for the unbelieving world of unsaved people. And since Pentecost God has been gifting His Church and Body Himself in these particular ministries to and for the body of Christ. God's reasons for doing so is found in the passages below:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Eph 4:12–16.

These five gift ministries are the life of Christ in His Church and body so that we may grow and we all "come in the unity of the faith, that we henceforth be no more children." That, among the others listed in this verse are the purpose of these gifts. To grow UP in Christ.

So, to deny the existence of the apostle or prophet is to deny the life of Christ in His Church and the persons or people that deny the life of Christ in His Church and Body are antichrist. As I said, each digit of the hand of God represents one of these five gift ministries and this is most practical. Christ is the Head. IF there are no apostles and prophets in the body of Christ then this means there are no thumb and pointing finger in the hand of God. Try to pick something up off the floor without a thumb. The opposable thumb is a thing of miracle for man is the only creature on God's green earth that has an opposable thumb. Without the thumb/apostle the hand of God in the body is deformed and unable to function as God intended.

Some might disagree, even with your erroneous belief that there are no more apostles of prophets after John the Baptist. Then again you believe Saul/Paul was an apostle and he says so. Personally, the twelve disciples of the lamb are covenant-saved and with Jesus right now in glory. I also believe Saul/Paul is also an apostle. I also believe that since Pentecost and as soon as the Jewish Christians began to understand the New Covenant era the Jews found themselves in that the Lord has called some in His Church to be an apostle, and also an evangelist, pastor and teacher. And there were other apostles in the Church thereafter. Epaphroditus was one. So were Junias and the others Saul names in Romans 16. Some erroneously believe Saul 'replaced' Judas and became the thirteenth apostle. Well, that too is error. God and His Christ do not replace, they add.

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Acts 2:47.

Now, the Greek word for apostle is "apostolos" and it only means "commissioned." Commissioned to do what? Well, that depends. Yet the main point is that no matter who God calls and what they are commissioned (authorized) to do it is Christ that works in the believer to do God's will. Sadly, many Christians who come to faith might have John MacArthur's NKJV Study Bible. He denies in the commentary part of his study bible at Ephesians 4:11 and 1 Corinthians 12, and 14 denies the apostle and prophet in the Church today and this also makes him an antichrist to deny contrary to Scripture the life of Christ in His people. Well, some years ago I called him out on it. He never responded.

All true born-again believers who are indwelt of the Holy Spirit cannot have pride. If they are waking up every day seeking God in prayer and Scripture, believe me, that person is humble. Being humble under the influence of the Spirit keeps one humble. Pride is of the flesh. And since you don't know me, you cannot judge righteous judgment about my spirit, attitude, and character. See, what God gives me by way of understanding Scripture and the knowledge He gives me only serves to keep me humble. The knowledge I possess is all given and revealed to me by the Spirit. At any rate I hope you learn something about the Body of Christ.
And stop denying Christ.

The above is what I feared and you did go down that rabbit hole.
I thought we were discussing the New Covenant.
The above would have to be cut down and answered at separate times due to the length.
I ran thru it quick, but there's just too much.

John was the last OT prophet.
Jesus was a Prophet, a King, and a Priest.
I don't know why we'd want to get into this.

See my post no. 386.
I've come to understand that you don't believe Gentiles can be part of the New Covenant.
I'd like to go over scripture regarding this.

For instance....also please answer this: (after post 386)
WHO were the other sheep Jesus had to tend to?
John 10:16
15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.



And who are the following?
Matthew 22:8-10
8 "Then he said to his slaves, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.
9 'Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.'
10 "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.

Those who were invited are the Jews who rejected the Messiah.
So who were those on the main highways?

 

[Duane]

In a broad sense, John wrote to provide the Christians of the province of Asia (now in Asia Minor) with a fuller understanding of the life and ministry of Jesus Christ. More specifically, he wrote to lead his readers to a settled faith on the basis of the words and works of Jesus, with the result that they “may have life in His name” John 20:31

 

[jeremiah1five]

Speculation and false also.

Acts 2:9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
Acts 2:10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome,
Acts 2:11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.”

proselytes are non born Jews but gentiles converted to Judaism.

Typical Constantinian Gentile theology textbook response. Do you even study the text or regurgitate what's written in Gentile theology books. You see, I used to believe those things, too, the same garbage you're accepting as true without actually looking at the text.
But of course you would say those things.

No, proselytes are Hellenized Jews. And the difference between proselytes and God Fearers is that proselytes have fully committed themselves to the Mosaic Law and they are circumcised while most God Fearers are not. No Gentile would be at a Jewish Feast because non-Hebrew Gentiles are considered by Jews as "unclean" and as Jesus once called one a "dog" (Gentile) every Jews knows there are no Gentiles in any of the two major covenant with God. Every Jew KNOWS Gentiles are NOT the seed of Abraham and as such are not the rightful heir according to the promise. You need to stop looking at the Hebrew Scripture with a Gentile mindset.

Acts 2:16 But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel:

What business does a Gentile have with a Jewish prophet such as Joel? But let's look closer to the text and this time with Hebrew understanding of the three Hebrew covenants.

Acts 2:17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;

It does not say - And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all [Jewish] flesh, it says all flesh and all = all. Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’

It doesn't have to say "Jewish" flesh when this love letter from God is to and for the Jewish people, when the prophet is giving a message from God to the Hebrew people.
Here is the actual text from Joel:

27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel,
And that I am the LORD your God, and none else:
And my people shall never be ashamed.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward,
That I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids
In those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth,
Blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
Before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered:
For in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance,
As the LORD hath said,
And in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
Joel 2:27–32.

The terminology of "whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD" is given elsewhere in Scripture and when translated into English reads exactly the way you are taking it, that an unbeliever can "call on the LORD" If you understand salvation, then you would know that men are not in charge of their sinful nature and that sin is not in the act as it is in the nature of man. There is no salvation formula men can perform. There is no such thing as "accept Jesus into your heart or confess with your mouth" and you will be saved. Men do not control the wind or the Spirit. It blows where IT WILLS just as Jesus taught Nicodemus in John 3.

First, the children of Israel are already in salvation covenant with God. As long as the high priest and the rest of the religious leaders sacrifice animals in order to atone yearly for the sins of the children of Israel, then the children of Israel are "covered" for a year of the Jewish calendar.

To "call on the name of the LORD" is terminology that refers to worship and only those who are already in relationship with God are qualified can do. If you knew Hebrew, you would know what that terminology actually is. But when you translate it into English it gives the impression that merely "calling on someone" in the next room is how it reads in Hebrew. No, to "call on the name of the LORD" refers to worship, and only those who have relationship with God can do. King David was in covenant relationship with God being of the tribe of Judah. Take a read at what he says here:

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest,
And causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts:
We shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house,
Even of thy holy temple.
Psalm 65:4.

There's a reason Scripture says in Jonah 2:9, "salvation is of the LORD." That's because God controls who is saved and who is not. Like Jesus said, "the wind blows where it wills and you cannot tell where it's going and where it's coming from." Just remember what the John the apostle said:

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:12–13.

"Calling on the name of the LORD" refers to worship and only those in covenant worship with God can do.

It does not say - And it shall come to pass that every Jew who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, the word everyone excludes exceptions, does not allow changes, everyone = everyone.

Try studying Scripture rather than regurgitate false Gentile theology. God sent the prophet Joel to Israel. His prophecy is a message from God to the children of Israel. It doesn't have to specify "Jew" when the whole prophetic message is from God to the Jew. And the children of Israel at the time of Moses were given the Mosaic Covenant from God. So, as a people they are already in covenant relationship with God.

Acts 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

And there you go again adding / changing Scripture.

Scripture does not say Jews but souls.

Only Jews were at the Jewish Feast. Uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentile "dogs" are not. But let's have Scripture prove my point. Take a look at WHO Peter is addressing when he opens his big fat mouth:

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Acts 2:14.

"Ye men of Judaea" refers to the two southern kingdom tribes at the Jewish Feast. Those words that follow are aimed directly at Judah and Benjamin. The book of Joel primarily addresses Judah and Jerusalem. This strongly indicates that his ministry was directed towards the people of the southern kingdom, Judah. And for the next seven verses Peter is speaking to Judah and Benjamin. Quoting Joel is appropriate because God sent the prophet Joel to the southern kingdom of Judah. But there's more:

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Acts 2:22.

Now Peter turns his attention to the ten northern kingdom tribes. From verse 22 to 28 Peter is addressing the ten northern kingdom tribes. Then, he turns his attention back to the two southern kingdom tribes [Judah] when he says, "Men and brethren."

29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:29.

And in verse 33 Peter says this to the two southern kingdom tribes (remember, Joel was sent by God to the kingdom of Judah)

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Acts 2:33.

You try to correct me in saying the Holy Spirit was given to ALL flesh - Gentile included - but Joel's prophecy was given by God to the twelve tribes of Jacob/Israel.

27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel,
And that I am the LORD your God, and none else:
And my people shall never be ashamed.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward,
That I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids
In those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth,
Blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
Before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered:
For in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance,
As the LORD hath said,
And in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
Joel 2:27–32.

Context is important. Once you begin to look at the Hebrew Scripture with a Hebrew mindset, then Scripture really opens up to you.

And the three thousand souls that were saved at the Jewish Feast of Harvest refers to the twelve tribes of Israel that attended this Jewish Feast. It also says in Acts 2:47 that "the Lord added to His Church DAILY such as should be saved," can only mean that thousands of Jews every day (daily) were being saved and filled by the Holy Spirit of Promise promised to the children of Israel. Peter then brings his sermon to a close:

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Acts 2:38–39.

The prophecy of Joel is clear. God sent Joel to the two southern kingdom tribes where he prophesied the promise of the Holy Spirit. That's why Peter calls Him that. And notice it is God that chooses and does the calling. So, no, Joel's prophecy did not include non-Hebrew Gentiles. Joel was sent to the kingdom of Judah, and his prophecies were to them - including the Holy Spirit of Promise promised to the two southern and northern kingdom tribes.

* Joel's prophecy promised the Holy Spirit. (Joel 2.)
* At the Feast of Harvest the twelve tribes of Israel were in attendance - no Gentiles.
* This is proved by Peter calling out the two kingdoms with a particular message from God to each kingdom.
* The three thousand souls that received the Spirit was given among the twelve tribes of Israel - no Gentiles.
* God doesn't lie.
* If your position is STILL Gentiles received the Spirit then either God lied, or your theology belief is wrong.
* God didn't lie.
* Your theology on Gentiles receiving the Spirit is wrong.

You need to get yourself out of other people's bible studies and look again at the Word of God and let it tell you what to believe rather than you telling Scripture what to say.

The defense rests.

 

[ProDeo]

The defense rests.

Nope, your are not the defense, you are the accuser.

You believe and actively promote that only those with Jewish DNA may receive salvation and eternal life and the rest of the humanity will rot in hell.

And Scripture proofs you wrong.

The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles [ESV]

Acts 10:44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
Acts 10:45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.
Acts 10:46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,
Acts 10:47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

Acts 11:1 Now the apostles and the brothers who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.
Acts 11:18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

Acts 13:46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Acts 13:47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Acts 14:27 And when they arrived and gathered the church together, they declared all that God had done with them, and how he had opened a door of faith to the Gentiles.

----------------

But you prefer to stick with the Jews who rejected the will of God as (for instance) stipulated in Acts 14

Acts 14:1 Now at Iconium they entered together into the Jewish synagogue and spoke in such a way that a great number of both Jews and Greeks believed.
Acts 14:2 But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brothers.
Acts 14:3 So they remained for a long time, speaking boldly for the Lord, who bore witness to the word of his grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands.
Acts 14:4 But the people of the city were divided; some sided with the Jews and some with the apostles.
Acts 14:5 When an attempt was made by both Gentiles and Jews, with their rulers, to mistreat them and to stone them,

Acts 14:19 But Jews came from Antioch and Iconium, and having persuaded the crowds, they stoned Paul and dragged him out of the city, supposing that he was dead.

Enough Scripture for one day.

You are on the wrong side my friend, still stuck in 2000 years old Jewish beliefs, come into God's reality, salvation is for everyone who believes, not limited to Jews only.