The Trinity The Touchstone of Truth
- Thread starter Rowan
- Start date
No it does not make him equal. If he were equal he wouldn't have had to be given all authority--Jesus is clear--The Father is greater than i.
101G
Well-known member
see that's why you think what 101G said makes no sense. LISTEN CAREFULLY, 101G never equated the Lord JESUS ..... "TO" ..... the Father, no, 101G is saying that JESUS is the Father in the Equal Share of himself as First and Last. First/Father, and Last/Son.
this proves you did not read 101G's posts. if you would have read it .... it clearly by the Apostle Paul said JESUS is the God of our fathers. just as Ananias said, "the God of our father has chosen/Made". see, if you would read 101G's post you would have known that.
now, go and read it..... please. don't glance at it READ IT.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
you ERROR.
"The Father is Greater than I"
We will give you the Short version of the explanation, straight to the point. John 14:28 "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I".
this verse have been taken out of context for way to long, and grossly misunderstood. the scriptures say, in all thy getting get understanding. So, let’s get some understanding. the word, "GREATER", here in this verse is not the word GREAT, but, "GREATER", it's an Adjective used here, and not an Adverb, this is very important. because the word GREATER is the Greek word G3187 meizon (meid'-zone) adj. Which means,
1. larger (specially, in age)
{literally or figuratively}
[irregular comparative of G3173]
KJV: elder, greater(-est), more Root(s): G3173
Dictionary.com define this word, as an Adjective, (of a city) considered with the inclusion of the outer suburbs: example, Greater London. the definitions is indicating quantity, (MORE), instead of quality, (SUPERIOR). this is the key to understanding the scripture.
quantity: "an exact or specified amount or measure". measure here, in quantity, give us a starting point in the understanding of Greater.
So What did our Lord and saviour Jesus meant when he said, "The Father is Greater than I", Greater: the Greek word G3187 meizon (meid'-zone), as said indicate quantity, and quantity is synonyms for “MEASURE”. in the book of Romans 12:3 it states, "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith". this verse gives us the understanding of quantity, vs quality. every man is the same, (quality), no man is superior/quality to another, so there's no rank. also as with MALES and FEMALES in the kingdom of GOD. For there is neither male nor female, we all are the same when it come to the giving of FAITH from God. We all gets the same MEASURE/quantity. the same Spirit that is in every man, male/female, is given the same amount/measure or the same quantity of Faith. so likewise as the same Spirit that manifest in that fleshly body, only the quantity, or the Omni attributes did. other words his Omni attributes was as Phil 2:7 states, was in G2758 κεν?ω kenoo (ke-no-o'). let’s look at this in John the 14th. chapter. here, the Lord Jesus is speaking of the work of salvation. as the Spirit was in Christ, (the flesh), the man, he was limited, by that fleshly body with BLOOD. the Lord Jesus didn't go into all the world while he was here on earth in flesh and blood. he was limited in his work of salvation, because of that body he was in. but to see this clearly, watch the WORKS and how it is used. John 14:12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father". see that word "greater" here in verse 12. it is the same word, "greater", our Lord Jesus uses in verse 28. wait a minute, is Jesus saying that men who believe is GREATER than him in power, (quality)? as which some been led to assume what greater means? NO. (is the servant GREATER than his Master?), again no. so what is the Lord Jesus really saying. as we have said, GREATER, have several meaning, depending on how you used it, in context or out of context, but let the bible explain itself. with that said, now we are seeing the real use of the word, in context meaning, greater as in quantity, and not in quality. greater used as an adjective, it means, "more" as in more believers to do the SAME quality of work, because it is the Lord HIMSELF who do the work. Once glorified, (in Spirit, the Comforter), a greater numbers/believers as he is Spirit in them/us doing the same quality of work he was doing as only one individual in flesh and blood. John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works, (there it is), than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father". so we who believe will do the SAME works, (quality), but now as the body/church grows, Greater in numbers, there will be millions of Jesus, (indwelling Spirit), doing the same quality of work. so again greater here means more.
let’s look at the answer to this millions, (quantity), of Jesus workers at work as we’re co-worker with him. This is why he goes to the father, to be glorified in the Spirit. And in Spirit form he now can dwell in each and every believer doing the same work. listen, John 14:14 "If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it". let’s see those Omni attributes of JESUS, after he goes to the Father and is glorified in the Spirit, (John 17:4 & 5), which only the Almighty possess. the verse to show this, John 14:14 again, “If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it". wait a minute, if Christ is in me, and the same Spirit of Christ is in you, wherever you are. this means that Jesus, #1 must be everywhere at the same time in order to hear your request, and he have to be everywhere at the same time to to , again to do the request, remember he said, "If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it", so he is doing the work, and if he's doing the work, and he have disciples, in Mobile, Baltimore, New York, Detroit, Dallas, Kansas City, Cairo, Hong Kong, Tokyo, and ect... then Jesus must be, #2 Omnipresent to do the work in all those places at the same time, and, and, and another and to know which disciple is asking, he must be #3 Omniscient, and, and for him to perform what is asked of him by his disciples, he must be Omnipotent. here the Lord Jesus is displaying all the attributes of GOD, who many calls FATHER. why? because he is GOD THE FATHER IN FLESH. Father is only a title that signify, "FIRST", and in Flesh, as Son, it Signify "LAST" as in Adam, who is "flesh". supportive scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he". just as John 1:1 states the "Word was "WITH" God and is God. BINGO
now back to where we left off at. the Lord Jesus, the man didn't go into all the world. but he sent his disciples, (GREATER in quantity/numbers), THAT''S WHY HE GOES TO THE FATHER SO THAT HE CAN SEND/COME AS THE COMFORTER because of his glorification in the Spirit. And he, JESUS, as Spirit can now be in everyone who believes, quantity), that's why the scriptures say, "now we're the sons of God", why? because we're his HANDS, and his FEET, to go into all the world, that where he didn’t go while in the human nature, we do. just as that flesh of God was sent into the world, so are we, (who are of flesh), are sent into all the world, by the Spirit in us. Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”:. this work is not of angels, (who are spirits, without bodies), remember what Jesus said, "for a spirit have not flesh and bones as I do", (Luke 24:39). are you getting the picture now? they, the angles only help us. that's why the angel told Cornelius to send for Peter, he'll tell you what to do, See Acts chapter 10.
Let’s put this in simple form so all can understand.
GREATER is in quantity, for our Lord Jesus was in flesh in a G2758 κεν?ω kenoo (ke-no-o'), STATE. limited to time and space, while in that flesh. But Glorified in the Spirit, or empowered with the Omni attributes as he had before, now in the Glorified state, John 173-5, he fills both heaven and earth. So John 14:28 shows the “Diversity” of God in both flesh and spirit as to the accessibility of the Omni attributes which only God have. So yes, in flesh, in the diversified state, the “Spirit” with the Omni attributes is “GREATER that he, in the share body in flesh, in a G2758 κεν?ω kenoo (ke-no-o'), STATE., without the Omni attributes.
All of this is know from the understanding of, quantity, (MORE), instead of quality, (SUPERIOR).
let this edify you.
101G.
Runningman
Well-known member
So you believe Jesus is the same person as the Father or what exactly.
I did actually read your writings for a change. I confess many times before I did not, but this time I did. The "God of our fathers" isn't Jesus in Acts 3. The God of our fathers is the Father, also known as YHWH, who has a son named Jesus. The entire narrative below is about God glorifying, resurrecting, and sending Jesus. The Lord is the Father. He's clearly an entirely separate actor from Jesus. I am positive you will not believe this, but nevertheless the Bible says it.
Acts 3 KJV
13The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. 14But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 15And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. 16And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. 18But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 22For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 25Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
101G
Well-known member
the Equal Share.
if you have read you did not understand then. but it's clear as day.
the Equal Share.
the Equal Share
101G
Runningman
Well-known member
Hmm if that were so then I would expect a consistent reading from the New Testament regarding that. It's not really said they are an Equal Share together. The way it reads to me is that God and Jesus just aren't the same person.
I was a Trinitarian before some years ago. Took a break from the Bible a long time. Picked up again maybe 10 years later. I began again with the assumption God is a Trinity, but that isn't what I saw anymore either with my eyes or heart. I saw clearly that God and Jesus aren't the same person. It wasn't until after I "woke up" so to speak, that I began receiving real spiritual gifts.
I don't know how to say this, but putting down the "kool-aid" for a while and taking some time off to detox might be something good to help you get a fresh perspective. Anyway, you have your beliefs and I respect that, but I don't agree.
Peterlag
Well-known member
It was common in their culture to speak of something that was of God coming down from above. Even the Manna that the Jews ate that they said came down from heaven did not snow down on them from above. They found it on the ground. Even we talk like that when we might speak about some new law in America when we say it came from Washington. That does not mean the Law was driven down to the rest of the country in trucks.
