Who is a monotheist?

[synergy]

But Jesus is a Jew and you didn't distinguish him from the others. You'll be more careful going forward I am sure.

I didn't classify all Jews as unbelievers. I had very had very good things to say about the Greek speaking Jews who spearheaded the initial growth of Christianity in the Roman world.

So what do you think about how God predestined the Greek OT, the Greek NT, the Greek language, and the Greek-speaking Jewish people for the unveiling of the Trinity?

 

[Runningman]

I didn't classify all Jews as unbelievers. I had very had very good things to say about the Greek speaking Jews who spearheaded the initial growth of Christianity in the Roman world.

So what do you think about how God predestined the Greek OT, the Greek NT, the Greek language, and the Greek-speaking Jewish people for the unveiling of the Trinity?

That's good if God predestined that.

I am curious, is Christianity a new religion in your view or is it the New Covenant promised to the Jews and Gentiles?

 

[synergy]

That's good if God predestined that.

He sure did.

I am curious, is Christianity a new religion in your view or is it the New Covenant promised to the Jews and Gentiles?

It's the New Covenant promised to all who believe, Jews and Gentiles.

 

[Runningman]

He sure did.

It's the New Covenant promised to all who believe, Jews and Gentiles.

The New Covenant isn't a new religion with new gods. It's the next step after the Old Covenant. If you are a real New Covenant believer then you will have the same God as the Jews do and they by and large reject your idol.

 

[synergy]

The New Covenant isn't a new religion with new gods. It's the next step after the Old Covenant. If you are a real New Covenant believer then you will have the same God as the Jews do and they by and large reject your idol.

Read how God predestined people and events for the further revealing of God as Trinity:

S

Thread 'The Predestination of the Greek OT, the Greek NT, and the Greek Language for the revealing of the Holy Trinity.'

Mar 8, 2025

Belief in the Holy Trinity was not a human invention but was predestined by God, carefully prepared through history, language, and culture. The Greek language, the Greek OT (Septuagint), and Hellenistic Jewish thought all point to a divine setup for revealing the Holy Trinity in the fullness of time.

God Prepared Greek as the Perfect Theological Tool – Long before Christ, God orchestrated events so that Greek would become the dominant language of the ancient world. This wasn’t random. Greek had the precise vocabulary necessary to express complex theological truths, ensuring that the...

• synergy

• 
• 

 

[Studyman]

Are you seriously going to side with the Pharisees?

A "Jew" is one who "does the works of Abraham", not the "works" of the Pharisees. Jesus Himself tells you that the Pharisees were not Abraham's Children. Paul tells you a Pharisees might be a "Jew" outwardly, but a true Jew isn't a Jew outwardly. Salvation was of the Jews, not the Pharisees. Zacharias, John the Baptist, Simeon, Cornelious, all these men were "Jews" inwardly, not Pharisees.

So to "Side with the Jews" would be to "Side with Jesus, Abraham, Moses, Caleb, David, Isaiah, Paul etc.," not the Pharisees.

And these "Jews" were not wrong about the "One True God", at least according to the Bible.

Read the following Thread:

S

Thread 'The Predestination of the Greek OT, the Greek NT, and the Greek Language for the revealing of the Holy Trinity.'

Mar 8, 2025

Belief in the Holy Trinity was not a human invention but was predestined by God, carefully prepared through history, language, and culture. The Greek language, the Greek OT (Septuagint), and Hellenistic Jewish thought all point to a divine setup for revealing the Holy Trinity in the fullness of time.

God Prepared Greek as the Perfect Theological Tool – Long before Christ, God orchestrated events so that Greek would become the dominant language of the ancient world. This wasn’t random. Greek had the precise vocabulary necessary to express complex theological truths, ensuring that the...

• synergy

• 
• 

Yes, as Pancho is pointing out, there are people in this world who have adopted religious sects which promote a God who is made up of 5 divine persons. You have adopted a religious sect of this world which promotes a God who is made up of 3 divine persons. Like the former, you accept and promote philosophies which support your specific adopted religion, no different than the person who has adopted a God who is 5 divine persons.

The Jesus "of the Bible" promotes His Father as a Spirit and "The ONE True God" who is greater than He.

One what. That's the key.

Again, one what?

Jesus tried to correct the Pharisees and he almost got stoned for it.

Yes, Jesus exposed the doctrines and traditions of the mainstream religion of His Time, the religious sect of the "Pharisees", AKA, "Children of the devil" who HE said, "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition".

And it got Him killed.

But of the true "Jews", Jesus said:

John 4: 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. (I worship the Father, and I am not in Jerusalem) 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know "what we worship": for salvation "is of the Jews." (Not the Pharisees) 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Salvation was never about the DNA men are born with, according to my understanding of Scriptures.

Is. 56: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, "to serve him", and to love the name of the LORD, (Like Abraham) to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer "for all people".

You should consider changing your philosophy concerning the difference between a "Jew" and a "Pharisee", based on what is actually written in Scriptures, not according to what is promoted by this world's various religious sects or businesses.

Clearly there is a Stark difference.

 

[synergy]

A "Jew" is one who "does the works of Abraham", not the "works" of the Pharisees. Jesus Himself tells you that the Pharisees were not Abraham's Children. Paul tells you a Pharisees might be a "Jew" outwardly, but a true Jew isn't a Jew outwardly. Salvation was of the Jews, not the Pharisees. Zacharias, John the Baptist, Simeon, Cornelious, all these men were "Jews" inwardly, not Pharisees.

So to "Side with the Jews" would be to "Side with Jesus, Abraham, Moses, Caleb, David, Isaiah, Paul etc.," not the Pharisees.

And these "Jews" were not wrong about the "One True God", at least according to the Bible.



Yes, as Pancho is pointing out, there are people in this world who have adopted religious sects which promote a God who is made up of 5 divine persons. You have adopted a religious sect of this world which promotes a God who is made up of 3 divine persons. Like the former, you accept and promote philosophies which support your specific adopted religion, no different than the person who has adopted a God who is 5 divine persons.

The Jesus "of the Bible" promotes His Father as a Spirit and "The ONE True God" who is greater than He.



Yes, Jesus exposed the doctrines and traditions of the mainstream religion of His Time, the religious sect of the "Pharisees", AKA, "Children of the devil" who HE said, "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition".

And it got Him killed.

But of the true "Jews", Jesus said:

John 4: 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. (I worship the Father, and I am not in Jerusalem) 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know "what we worship": for salvation "is of the Jews." (Not the Pharisees) 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Salvation was never about the DNA men are born with, according to my understanding of Scriptures.

Is. 56: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, "to serve him", and to love the name of the LORD, (Like Abraham) to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer "for all people".

You should consider changing your philosophy concerning the difference between a "Jew" and a "Pharisee", based on what is actually written in Scriptures, not according to what is promoted by this world's various religious sects or businesses.

Clearly there is a Stark difference.

Let's say you were in Israel right now. How would you address a Jew who does not believe? Would you tell him that he is not a Jew?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I challenge you though—just as a matter of curiosity—find me one English dictionary that says God is a "supreme person" instead of "supreme being." If you like getting pedantic, that is.

Good morning, Dizerner

Dictionaries make a good job at defining God as a supreme Being, and not as a supreme Person, because God is also understood as an impersonal being, for example, by Pantheists.
That's why I say that Jainists, some Buddhists, Taoists, and Pantheists in General would not have any problem with you sharing the notion of an impersonal God.

If the Universe, or Existence as a whole, is God, as a pantheist believe, then we have a Supreme Being that is not a Supreme Person.
But for theists (monotheists and polytheists alike) God or "a god" is a personal being.

There seems to be a widespread confusion among some friends in the Forum about what "personal being" and "non-personal being" is.
A personal being is an individual with his/her own mind and agency (will to do things). Individual means that cannot be divided.

So, a church, or a country, are examples of non-personal beings.
The members of the church, or the citizens of the country, are examples of personal beings.

A Trinitarian God is an example of a non-personal being. You could even replace the word "God" by something like "Supreme Council".
Under a Trinitarian view, John 3:16 should be understood like this:

"For The Supreme Council so loved the world, that it sent one of its members, The Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

The New Covenant isn't a new religion with new gods. It's the next step after the Old Covenant. If you are a real New Covenant believer then you will have the same God as the Jews do and they by and large reject your idol.

Good morning Runningman

I agree with your words, except for the final ones, that I highlighted in red.
Jesus is not the idol of @synergy nor the idol of anyone here.

An idol leads us astray from God. Jesus take us to God.
God does not want us to pay attention to an idol. God wants us to pay attention to Jesus.
Whatever Jesus asked us to do, is what God asked us to do. No conflicting demands. No room for jealousy.

Trinitarians who honestly follow Jesus do not practice idolatry of any kind.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

And these "Jews" were not wrong about the "One True God", at least according to the Bible.

This is a great truth, Studyman.
The Jews were right and are right about the "One True God".

Jesus and the apostles, NEVER EVER denied, corrected or condemned Jews for their belief in One Personal God.
This should not surprise anyone, as Jesus and the apostles... were also Jews!
Jesus Himself quoted the Torah in Shema, Israel, when introducing the most important commandment.
Peter himself referred to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, without asking anyone to change any belief about His Oneness.
James, in his epistle, takes for granted that Christians keep believing that God is One.

All reproaches to Jews made by Jesus and his apostles are about their inability to recognize the true Messiah, the Anointed of God.

So, every time I invite my Christian friends to consult the rabbi of their neighborhood or city about the nature of God, I mean it.

 

[Studyman]

Let's say you were in Israel right now. How would you address a Jew who does not believe? Would you tell him that he is not a Jew?

I don't have to tell him anything. I would give him a bible and let Isaiah, Moses, Jesus, Paul, Ezekiel and others tell him.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

There is not a 1 to 1 ratio with God and person.

Your statement would be correct if you believed one of these two things

• God is a Council, Assembly, Organization or Family.
• God is Existence, or Reality, or the Universe.

In both cases your God would not be a personal God.
If you believe in a personal God, then the 1:1 ratio is logically essential.

God is One Being and 3 Persons

Let me try to understand what you mean by "One Being"
I was raised in a family of four persons: My dad, my mom, my sister and me. Was my family "One Being"?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Ah, you realize most of the Torah is rebuking Jews for being wrong about God is.

The ignorance here, lol.

Jews are not wrong about God being One Personal God.
I publicly challenge you to show Jesus or his apostles calling Jews to abandon the belief in The God of Israel as One God, as the Torah states.
In contrast, I can prove to you and our readers how Jesus and his apostles, as the Jews they were, kept thinking in The God of Israel as One God, the True and Only God.

Do you accept the challenge so that our readers can profit from reading our posts?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

People using your weird logic would call Jesus and the Bible anti-Semitic.

We are not "anti-sinners' by calling out sin. We are not "anti-health" by calling out sickness.

Love speaks the truth, love entails honesty, love calls out sin.

Only some kind of twisted worldly secular humanism thinks calling out sin is "hating people."

I have two comments on your post:

1. Nobody is speaking about "sin" in this thread. Believing that God is a Council of Three Persons is not a sin. It is just an intellectual mistake. If @Runningman thinks it is a sin, he is mistaken. If you believe that believing that God is One Person is a sin, you are mistaken.

2. Hating Jews can take many forms: for example, approving the perpetual torture of Jews for being Jews. Only a small fraction of Nazis killed Jews with their own hands. Most just considered the arrest, forced labor or massacre a well-deserved outcome for Jews. Furthermore, most could not provide a thoughtful, structured explanation of their anti-Semitic sentiments. They just trust their leaders... the Führer in particular. All that attitude was the result of hatred. By the same token, some Evangelical Christians cannot provide a reasonable explanation on why Jews who die as Jews have in perpetual torture a well-deserved reward. They just said they trust God. If God does it, He must have good reasons for it. Jews made their choice and they chose hell.

 

[Studyman]

This is a great truth, Studyman.
The Jews were right and are right about the "One True God".

Jesus and the apostles, NEVER EVER denied, corrected or condemned Jews for their belief in One Personal God.
This should not surprise anyone, as Jesus and the apostles... were also Jews!
Jesus Himself quoted the Torah in Shema, Israel, when introducing the most important commandment.
Peter himself referred to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, without asking anyone to change any belief about His Oneness.
James, in his epistle, takes for granted that Christians keep believing that God is One.

All reproaches to Jews made by Jesus and his apostles are about their inability to recognize the true Messiah, the Anointed of God.

So, every time I invite my Christian friends to consult the rabbi of their neighborhood or city about the nature of God, I mean it.

Yes, Jesus never rebuked anyone for living by the Words of God, as it is written.

It seems important to point out, and I mean so respectfully, that the Rabbi Gamaliel, the Chief Priests of Jesus' time, and the Scribes and Pharisees in charge of the Temple of God, all promoted falsehoods about God and His Salvation. While Zacharias, John the Baptists, Simeon and Anna, who were Jews but not Pharisees, all folks who had "Yielded themselves" to God, understood and promoted a different God, with a different nature, and they knew the Prophesied Messiah, and believed in Him even before HE was born.

Since I agree with you that the Bible is a Spiritual Book, I find this truth of the Bible fascinating. In Jesus Time, the greatest religious philosophers of that time, men who actually had exclusive possession of the Law and Prophets and had supposedly studied it for centuries, were not able to see what a poor Levite living in the wilderness, or a lessor priest whose job it was to keep the incense burning in the Temple, or a poor widow serving God with fasting a prayers, could see.

I'm not sure if I would send anyone to a modern Rabbi. First off, if he taught the truth about the Bible, he would be despised and shunned by modern "Jews", just as John the Baptist, Jesus and Paul was, in my view.

Great topic Pancho, interesting questions and perspectives posed, a great thought exercise. After all, we should know "What we worship" as Salvation is of the Jews. Seems prudent to know what a Jews is, giving the Christ's Words concerning them.

Again, a great topic about monotheist.

 

[Dizerner]

I publicly challenge you to show Jesus or his apostles calling Jews to abandon the belief in The God of Israel as One God, as the Torah states.

Equivocation smuggling in your false premise that One God is one person. Trying to win a debate by underhanded means.

1. If you believe that believing that God is One Person is a sin, you are mistaken.

You are not my teacher, lol, Christ said if the blind lead the blind both fall into a ditch. Yes, the NT teaches 3 Persons, yes I am talking about sin.

2. By the same token, some Evangelical Christians cannot provide a reasonable explanation on why Jews who die as Jews have in perpetual torture a well-deserved reward.

False and dishonest. You've been told that all people sin and your own conscience knows you fall short of God's perfection.

When you wake up in endless horrific suffering one day, you have absolutely no excuse whatsoever, because you chose your pride.

 

[Studyman]

Equivocation smuggling in your false premise that One God is one person. Trying to win a debate by underhanded means.

And yet it is you who cannot show even one verse in the Holy Scriptures where Jesus. or the Apostles God directed Him to choose, rebuked or otherwise instructed Jews to abandon the God and Father of the Lord's Christ that HE Himself said was the "One True God", as promoted in the Torah.

You are not my teacher, lol, Christ said if the blind lead the blind both fall into a ditch. Yes, the NT teaches 3 Persons, yes I am talking about sin.

Pancho is simply asking questions which challenge the Catholic Doctrine of God being 3 divine persons. Especially given that there is not One Word from the Jesus "of the Bible", which clearly declare such a God. Given it is the very foundation of many religious sects and businesses of this world, it seems Jesus would have said something, anything about it. But HE didn't. He said more about God's Sabbath, than HE said about God being 3 separate persons.

It's a legitimate question.

False and dishonest. You've been told that all people sin and your own conscience knows you fall short of God's perfection.
When you wake up in endless horrific suffering one day, you have absolutely no excuse whatsoever, because you chose your pride.

And yet it is you who are offended by a person simply questioning a popular religious philosophy promoted by this world's religions, but not by the Law and Prophets, or Jesus or the Apostles.

1 Tim. 2: 5 For there is one God, and one mediator "between God and men", "the man" Christ Jesus;

Your preaching that if I believe these Inspired Words of God, I will wake up immortal and spend eternity in horrific suffering is absurd, if the Bible is my guide.

Perhaps it is your pride that causes you to blindly follow such an absurd religious philosophy. After all, according to the Holy Scriptures, you will be judged by your own works, not Pancho's.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Equivocation smuggling in your false premise that One God is one person. Trying to win a debate by underhanded means.

Jews believe God is One Single Mind, One Single Will, and always treated God as He, a person.
Neither Jesus nor his apostles ever condemned or rejected that belief. On the contrary, they believed in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and his Oneness, as any other Jew.

This is my premise and it is true.
If you think it is a false premise, I challenge you to present your arguments.
It should be an easy task: The foundation of Jewish theology was One God treated as a He, as Person.
So, if that theology was wrong, Jesus or his disciples should have called the Jews to abandon it.

You are not my teacher, lol,

Certainly I'm not.

When you wake up in endless horrific suffering one day, you have absolutely no excuse whatsoever, because you chose your pride.

You will wake up in the presence of God, and to His infinite love and beauty. Then you will understand me and the rest of your brothers.

 

[Dizerner]

And yet it is you who cannot show even one verse in the Holy Scriptures where Jesus. or the Apostles God directed Him to choose, rebuked or otherwise instructed Jews to abandon the God and Father of the Lord's Christ that HE Himself said was the "One True God", as promoted in the Torah.

False accusation and moving the goalposts.

I believe in the ONE TRUE GOD OF ISRAEL whom the NT clearly teaches is THREE DIVINE PERSONS.

It's a legitimate question.

What I responded to was not a question, it was a false statement or declaration given with an air of authority.

Please get your facts straight before you criticize someone.

And yet it is you who are offended by a person simply questioning a popular religious philosophy promoted by this world's religions, but not by the Law and Prophets, or Jesus or the Apostles.

Projecting offense onto someone is slander and a red herring fallacy that distracts away from the points being made.

He is not "simply questioning." He is strongly asserting that Bible is false and not an accurate source of divine revelation.

1 Tim. 2: 5 For there is one God, and one mediator "between God and men", "the man" Christ Jesus;

Your preaching that if I believe these Inspired Words of God, I will wake up immortal and spend eternity in horrific suffering is absurd, if the Bible is my guide.

False. You are taking my words out of context.

I have elaborately and clearly explained to Pancho and anyone here that I believe the sin of Unitarian belief can potentially be atoned.

However, Pancho rejects the atoning Blood of Jesus Christ on behalf of his sins, and claims another way to God.

Perhaps it is your pride...

Perhaps it was YOUR pride the impelled you to take everything I said out of context and put no work into actually understanding it.

You misrepresented literally everything I said.

you will be judged by your own works, not Pancho's.

I live every day with this knowledge uppermost in my mind.

I am not scared of your dishonest and unbiblical condemnation of me.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

False accusation and moving the goalposts.

I believe in the ONE TRUE GOD OF ISRAEL whom the NT clearly teaches is THREE DIVINE PERSONS.

The NT could not have taught a different God than the one taught in the Tanakh to Israel. If the New Testament had taught a different god, then it would have no more value than any Pagan mythology, and you shouldn't take it as revelation, but as an interesting or entertaining reading.


*********

Did Jews at the time of Jesus and his apostles believed that The God of Israel was One Agent, One Mind? Yes.
Did Jesus Christ or his apostles reject, refute or call to abandon such belief? No.
Where are the proofs?

PROOF 1. Jesus, a Jew, didn't change the belief of the Jewish scribes in the God of the Torah.

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”​

​

"The most important one,” answered Jesus, is this: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one; Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. ​

The second is this: Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."​

​

“Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”​

​

When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions. (Mark 12:28-34)​

​

PROOF 2. Jesus, a Jew, didn't change the faith of his Jewish apostles in the God of Israel

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” (John 20:17)​

PROOF 3. Jesus, a Jew, didn't change the faith of the Jewish crowds in the God of Israel

The people were amazed when they saw the mute speaking, the crippled made well, the lame walking and the blind seeing. And they praised the God of Israel. (Matthew 15:31)​

​

PROOF 4. Jesus, a Jew, didn't change the faith of the Saducees in the God of Abraham

​

But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.”​

​

PROOF 5. Peter, a Jew, didn't change the belief of his Jewish audience in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Fellow Israelites, why does this surprise you? Why do you stare at us as if by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk? The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus." (Acts 3:12)​

​

PROOF 6. Paul, a Jew, didn't change the faith of his Jewish and God-fearer audience in the God of his ancestors

Fellow Israelites and you Gentiles who worship God, listen to me! The God of the people of Israel chose our ancestors; he made the people prosper during their stay in Egypt; with mighty power he led them out of that country... After this, God gave them judges until the time of Samuel the prophet. Then the people asked for a king, and he gave them Saul... After removing Saul, he made David their king... From this man’s descendants God has brought to Israel the Savior Jesus, as he promised.... We tell you the good news: What God promised our ancestors he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus." (Acts 13: 16-33, extracts)​

​

PROOF 7. Paul, a Jew, served the same God that his ancestors served.

​

I thank God, whom I serve, as my ancestors did, with a clear conscience, as night and day I constantly remember you in my prayers. (1 Tim 1:3)​

​

PROOF 8. James, a Jew, didn't change the belief of his Christian Jewish readers in the God of the Torah, the God of Abraham

​

My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good!... Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did... And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. (James 2: 1,19, 21-23)​

​

CONCLUSION: ​

The God of Israel is the one revealed in the Tanakh. Such God is treated as a "He": an individual agent, an individual mind.
This is the only God known, worshiped and preached by Jesus and his apostles.