The Trinity The Touchstone of Truth

[Runningman]

there should be no debate. because "I AM" is a verb and not a noun. Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
I AM is: H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw) v.
1. to exist.
2. to be or become.
3. to come into being, i.e. to happen, to occur (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary).
[a primitive root]
KJV: beacon, X altogether, be(-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-)self, require, X use.
Compare: H1933

as a verb, God is IDENTIFIED as "WHAT" he is in NAME, and NOT "WHO" he is in Name. so I AM is not God personal Name.

101G.

This is not related to my previous post so I don't know why you are changing the subject out of the blue when I wasn't even talking to you, but I do welcome you since we have chatted many times already. Did we talk about this once already? My position did not change. What Acts 3:13 say is clear that Jesus is not the God of Abraham, but the God of Abraham is the I AM in Exodus 3:14,15. Don't reject or redefine words and ignore grammar. How do you explain that?

 

[Peterlag]

see that verse 14 you posted, ...... "14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth." the "God" of our Father hath chosen thee? yes the Lord Jesus, and here how we all know. that term "Chosen" is the Greek term
G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai) v.
1. to handle for oneself in advance.
2. (figuratively) to purpose.
[middle voice from G4253 and a derivative of G5495]
KJV: choose, make
Root(s): G4253, G5495
this word is also translated as "make" as you can see. and the apostle Paul confirms that the God of our fathers is Jesus christ as he was before king Agrippa in this third account of the same event with more detail. which is found in Acts 26:13 "At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me." Acts 26:14 "And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." Acts 26:15 "And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest." Acts 26:16 "But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;"
that term "MAKE" is the same term used by Ananias in saying that Jesus is God, yes the GOD of our fathers.

so, do you believe the bible? if you do then your doctrine and theology are in ERROR. we suggest you read these scriptures for yourself.

101G.

The God of your fathers does not mean Jesus is God. It just means the God of their fathers.

 

[101G]

This is not related to my previous post so I don't know why you are changing the subject out of the blue when I wasn't even talking to you, but I do welcome you since we have chatted many times already. Did we talk about this once already? My position did not change. What Acts 3:13 say is clear that Jesus is not the God of Abraham, but the God of Abraham is the I AM in Exodus 3:14,15. Don't reject or redefine words and ignore grammar. How do you explain that?

GINOLJC, to all.
first 101G was responding to your post #699 you had with Dave. and here you use Acts 3:13 to ... try .... to prove that the Lord JESUS "I AM" is not the God Abraham... but ERROR again and here's why. we suggest you read 101G's post https://berean-apologetics.communit...nity-the-touchstone-of-truth.1521/post-143362 which clearly explain that JESUS, the Lord is the God of Abraham.

101G

 

[civic]

Which verse says YHWH came to earth as a man.

Matthew 1:23, John 1:1,14 1 Tim 3:16 for starters.

 

[Runningman]

Matthew 1:23, John 1:1,14 1 Tim 3:16 for starters.

None of those mention anything of the sort. Try again.

 

[civic]

None of those mention anything of the sort. Try again.

They sure do as each one declares its God who became man. YHWH promised in the OT He would come and dwell with man just like He did with Adam in the garden.

Next fallacy

 

[Runningman]

GINOLJC, to all.
first 101G was responding to your post #699 you had with Dave. and here you use Acts 3:13 to ... try .... to prove that the Lord JESUS "I AM" is not the God Abraham... but ERROR again and here's why. we suggest you read 101G's post https://berean-apologetics.communit...nity-the-touchstone-of-truth.1521/post-143362 which clearly explain that JESUS, the Lord is the God of Abraham.

101G

Jesus isn't the I AM. To suggest otherwise is almost equal to accuse Jesus of lying. So you're saying that Jesus is the I AM but is not the God of Abraham? This is chaos.

 

[Runningman]

They sure do as each one declares its God who became man.

You're in a different thread splitting hairs over the definition of a single word in Acts 20:28 but here in this thread you have the audacity to claim YHWH came to earth as a man and then cite verses that do not say anything remotely close to what you say.

 

[civic]

You're in a different thread splitting hairs over the definition of a single word in Acts 20:28 but here in this thread you have the audacity to claim YHWH came to earth as a man and then cite verses that do not say anything remotely close to what you say.

Well what does the bible say in those verses

the Word ( God John 1:1) became flesh in John 1:14
God was manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16
Hs name is Emmanuel- God with us

next fallacy

 

[Runningman]

Well what does the bible say in those verses

the Word ( God John 1:1) became flesh in John 1:14

That doesn't mention anything about an incarnation. 1 John 1:1-3 calls the Word of life the same thing as eternal life. The Word is a thing and John 1:1 is just personification.

God was manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16

"God" in 1 Timothy 3:16 is a later addition to the Bible and only the KJV and a few others use it. Most modern Bibles omit it because it's false. You've made a rookie mistake. You've never studied 1 Timothy 3:16?

Hs name is Emmanuel- God with us

next fallacy

That doesn't identify Jesus as the God who was with them, but rather the definition of the word Emmanuel. Having a name about God doesn't make someone God. There are literally over a dozen Bible names that are a reference to God without those people being God.

Next fallacy.

 

[101G]

Jesus isn't the I AM. To suggest otherwise is almost equal to accuse Jesus of lying. So you're saying that Jesus is the I AM but is not the God of Abraham? This is chaos.

can you read? Jesus is the ONLY GOD in a ECHAD of First/Father/Spirit.... title LORD. and Last/Son/Flesh and bone ..... title Lord.
we see you didn't read the LINK for if you did, then you would not ask that IGNORANT question. read the LINK... ok.... https://berean-apologetics.communit...nity-the-touchstone-of-truth.1521/post-143362

and three, what 101G is saying just what the bible has ALREADY said, the Lord Jesus is the God ... "I AM" ... in flesh. the God of Abraham.

101G.

 

[DavidTree]

Tanslation is wrong. Won't bother debating or explainign it to you. You'll for sure reject all and not even try to discuss it. You have your religion and that's that, but don't think your false gospel will ever make it past here. We Christians will do our best to stop your organization when we can.

Elohim is in CHARGE of translation.

You approach to Scripture is rely upon your own self sufficiency, therefore you will not be able to SEE.

"we christians" ???

Followers of Christ are determined by believing His words.

 

[DavidTree]

(smile), you have the floor..... LOL,

101G

Question - AGAIN - Do you AGREE, BELIEVE and SUBMIT to every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God???

ESPECIALLY Isa 44:24 = "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

Yes or No???

 

[Keiw1]

God is His own God because THEY are THREE

All things are POSSIBLE with GOD

The Father is the only true God Jesus teaches-John 17:3--Why wont you believe him?

 

[DavidTree]

The Father is the only true God Jesus teaches-John 17:3--Why wont you believe him?

You are always leaving out the TRUTH.........why? Because you believe those who are lying to you!!!

John 17:1-5

When Jesus had spoken these things, He lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son may glorify You. For You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him.
Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do.
And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.

Can you SEE the TRUTH that you always reject???

 

[Keiw1]

You are always leaving out the TRUTH.........why? Because you believe those who are lying to you!!!

John 17:1-5

When Jesus had spoken these things, He lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son may glorify You. For You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him.
Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do.
And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.

Can you SEE the TRUTH that you always reject???

You cant see it. All who can understand English for themselves see 100% Jesus calls his Father-THE ONLY TRUE GOD. Yes only one greater can give another authority.

 

[MTMattie]

There is no evidence from the Scriptures that anyone believed or taught that Jesus was God. None.

John 8 .......

These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.

Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.

And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

EVEN SPOT UNDERSTANDS THESE.
NOW...... You want scriptures.

What does John 8:24 mean?​

Once again, Jesus professes to be the one and only option for salvation. Earlier, when claiming to be "the light of the world" (John 8:12), He made the same suggestion. Then, while debating with the Pharisees, Jesus directly said that those who reject Him "will die in [their] sin" (John 8:21). Since Jesus is sent by God the father (John 8:16), comes from heaven (John 8:23), and does the will of God (John 7:28–29), those who reject Him cannot be saved (John 3:36). To turn your back on Christ is to turn your back on God Himself (John 6:29).

This is the context of Jesus' recent comments about going where He cannot be followed. First and foremost, this means returning to heaven after His crucifixion and resurrection (John 20:17). However, it also reflects the fact that these men are running out of time to accept their Savior. At some point, they'll realize they need to seek Christ, but it will be too late (Luke 16:19–31).

Interestingly, Jesus once again uses the "I AM" phrasing here. In the gospel of John, there are seven highlighted moments where Jesus describes Himself using this specific expression. While this is not one of those, the meaning is the same. When God stated His identity in Exodus 3:14, He referred to Himself as "I AM," using a Hebrew phrasing implying necessary existence and absolute truth. When Jesus states in this verse that one must believe "I am he," it's yet another instance where He does, in fact, tell others that He is God.

 

[DavidTree]

You cant see it. All who can understand English for themselves see 100% Jesus calls his Father-THE ONLY TRUE GOD. Yes only one greater can give another authority.

Everyone who is Born-Again by the WORD knows that the ONLY Begotten SON of GOD came from His FATHER.

That makes the WORD equal and of the SAME Being as His FATHER.

"In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with GOD and the WORD was GOD"

You do not know this because you are in darkness being blinded by the darkness of watchtower.

 

[Runningman]

can you read? Jesus is the ONLY GOD in a ECHAD of First/Father/Spirit.... title LORD. and Last/Son/Flesh and bone ..... title Lord.
we see you didn't read the LINK for if you did, then you would not ask that IGNORANT question. read the LINK... ok.... https://berean-apologetics.communit...nity-the-touchstone-of-truth.1521/post-143362

and three, what 101G is saying just what the bible has ALREADY said, the Lord Jesus is the God ... "I AM" ... in flesh. the God of Abraham.

101G.

I read it. Your argument doesn't make sense. You are trying to equate Jesus to the "God of our fathers" when there are dozens of examples of Jesus not being God. You also have used what is called a non sequitur because your conclusion is not actually stated anywhere in the Bible, i.e., Jesus is never called the "God of our fathers." God choses and gives people to Jesus, not the other way around.

Matthew 12
18“Here is My Servant,
whom I have chosen,
My beloved,
in whom My soul delights.
I will put My Spirit on Him,
and He will proclaim justice to the nations.

John 17
2For You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him.

 

[Runningman]

Elohim is in CHARGE of translation.

You approach to Scripture is rely upon your own self sufficiency, therefore you will not be able to SEE.

"we christians" ???

Followers of Christ are determined by believing His words.

Christians believe and do the same things Jesus did. Jesus served, obeyed, and worshipped the Father. Jesus got his life, teachings, authority, etc from the Father. Jesus never taught anyone anything about believing he is God.