The Definition of Grace

[brightfame52]

2 Corinthians 5:19–20 (KJV 1900) — 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

It seems one must be yet

be ye reconciled to God.

Reconciliation is Salvation from the charges of sin, they are not imputed to the reconciled world. and Be ye reconciled is the call to faith in what has taken place, its in the passive voice, meaning they are being acted upon. Also the imperative is issued to them that are already reconciled Vs 18-19 show that.

 

[civic]

Reconciliation is Salvation from the charges of sin, they are not imputed to the reconciled world. and Be ye reconciled is the call to faith in what has taken place, its in the passive voice, meaning they are being acted upon. Also the imperative is issued to them that are already reconciled Vs 18-19 show that.

Reconciliation comes before salvation just like regeneration, you are conflating them .

 

[brightfame52]

Reconciliation comes before salvation just like regeneration, you are conflating them .

Reconciliation is Salvation. One who is reconciled to God is saved from the penalty of sin because its not charged to them. Is being saved from the penalty of sin Salvation or not ?

 

[TomL]

Reconciliation is Salvation from the charges of sin, they are not imputed to the reconciled world. and Be ye reconciled is the call to faith in what has taken place, its in the passive voice, meaning they are being acted upon. Also the imperative is issued to them that are already reconciled Vs 18-19 show that.

It was something they were required to do an imperative

God's reconciliation did not leave them with nothing to do

 

[brightfame52]

It was something they were required to do an imperative

God's reconciliation did not leave them with nothing to do

Its in the passive voice, they are being caused to believe , the command is Gods and He causes it to occur. What happens when Gods command was Let there be light ?

 

[TomL]

Its in the passive voice, they are being caused to believe , the command is Gods and He causes it to occur. What happens when Gods command was Let there be light ?

So what? It is still an imperative something were to accept

2 Corinthians 5:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
It's passive because god effected it and they were to accept or receive it
We are ambassadors therefore on behalf of Christ (ὑπερ Χριστου οὐν πρεσβευομεν [huper Christou oun presbeuomen]). Old word from πρεσβυς [presbus], an old man, first to be an old man, then to be an ambassador (here and Eph. 6:20 with ἐν ἁλυσῃ [en halusēi] in a chain added), common in both senses in the Greek. “The proper term in the Greek East for the Emperor’s Legate” (Deissmann, Light from the Ancient East, p. 374), in inscriptions and papyri. So Paul has a natural pride in using this dignified term for himself and all ministers. The ambassador has to be persona grata with both countries (the one that he represents and the one to which he goes). Paul was Christ’s Legate to act in his behalf and in his stead. As though God were entreating by us (ὡς του θεου παρακαλουντος δἰ ἡμων [hōs tou theou parakalountos di’ hēmōn]). Genitive absolute with ὡς [hōs] used with the participle as often to give the reason (apparent or real). Here God speaks through Christ’s Legate. Be ye reconciled to God (καταλλαγητε τῳ θεῳ [katallagēte tōi theōi]). Second aorist passive imperative of καταλλασσω [katallassō] and used with the dative case. “Get reconciled to God,” and do it now. This is the ambassador’s message as he bears it to men from God.

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), 2 Co 5:20.

 

[brightfame52]

So what? It is still an imperative something were to accept

2 Corinthians 5:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
It's passive because god effected it and they were to accept or receive it
We are ambassadors therefore on behalf of Christ (ὑπερ Χριστου οὐν πρεσβευομεν [huper Christou oun presbeuomen]). Old word from πρεσβυς [presbus], an old man, first to be an old man, then to be an ambassador (here and Eph. 6:20 with ἐν ἁλυσῃ [en halusēi] in a chain added), common in both senses in the Greek. “The proper term in the Greek East for the Emperor’s Legate” (Deissmann, Light from the Ancient East, p. 374), in inscriptions and papyri. So Paul has a natural pride in using this dignified term for himself and all ministers. The ambassador has to be persona grata with both countries (the one that he represents and the one to which he goes). Paul was Christ’s Legate to act in his behalf and in his stead. As though God were entreating by us (ὡς του θεου παρακαλουντος δἰ ἡμων [hōs tou theou parakalountos di’ hēmōn]). Genitive absolute with ὡς [hōs] used with the participle as often to give the reason (apparent or real). Here God speaks through Christ’s Legate. Be ye reconciled to God (καταλλαγητε τῳ θεῳ [katallagēte tōi theōi]). Second aorist passive imperative of καταλλασσω [katallassō] and used with the dative case. “Get reconciled to God,” and do it now. This is the ambassador’s message as he bears it to men from God.

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), 2 Co 5:20.

It's a imperative passive God's command causes faith in what is already true. The command isn't to the unreconciled but to the reconciled

 

[TibiasDad]

I would not agree that God cannot be obligated when he has obligated himself through covenant promises. Once he has made an unconditional promise as he did to Abraham and his family through Jacob, then his actions are by the principle of promise and not by grace. I am not making this up. God said this himself.

Luke 24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

He 6:13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

God has obligated himself to keep his promises to whom he made them. He calls them everlasting covenants. They are immutable. He will not change them.

God included gentiles under the principle of grace and mercy through Jesus Christ and gave us gentiles the Life giving Spirit that he promised to the nation of the Jews in covenants. The Jewish nation rejected his fulfillment of his covenant promises when he came to fulfill it, Lk 24:44 above and Acts 2-7. Only a few Jews received Jesus Christ as their promised Messiah but God is the God of the second chance and he made a new covenant with the Jewish people by which he could include the gentiles and provide the blood sacrifice that could take away our sins, something that was not provided for gentiles in the OT apart from the Jewish nation. A gentile must become as a Jew and keep the law and live as a Jew in order to participate in God's sacrificial system. Now, because of the once for all time eternal sacrifice of Jesus Christ for the whole world and his rising from the dead there is no such requirement and all of the redeemed are equally children of God in Jesus Christ, his body. This age of grace has expanded God's salvation to include gentiles, which has always been his intention, but it has not negated a single national promise God has made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, or Jesus Christ.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.


Reason and logic is applicable to these scriptures in light of the everlasting and unconditional covenants of God to Israel.

This sounds a lot like my final paragraph:

“It is “the great and precious promises” of God that obligate God, not our asking him to save us. It is his promise alone that “whoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life” that obligates him to do what he does.”

This meaning that only God can obligate God…


Doug

 

[TomL]

It's a imperative passive God's command causes faith in what is already true. The command isn't to the unreconciled but to the reconciled

Sorry but there is nothing there about caused faith. You are readingyiour theology into scripture

BTW in context it is the world which was the object of God's reconciliation

2 Corinthians 5:18–20 (NASB 2020) — 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

And world does not mean the unconditionally elected

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry but there is nothing there about caused faith. You are readingyiour theology into scripture

BTW in context it is the world which was the object of God's reconciliation

2 Corinthians 5:18–20 (NASB 2020) — 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

And world does not mean the unconditionally elected

It's a imperative passive God's command causes faith in what is already true. The command isn't to the unreconciled but to the reconciled. See with the command they are being acted upon to be reconciled in their minds and heart, persuaded that they are already reconciled.

 

[civic]

Sorry but there is nothing there about caused faith. You are readingyiour theology into scripture

BTW in context it is the world which was the object of God's reconciliation

2 Corinthians 5:18–20 (NASB 2020) — 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

And world does not mean the unconditionally elected

Yes another giant leap of unbiblical faith to make world mean elect, not one Greek lexicon will define it in that manner. There are 8 variants of meaning and not a single one means elect.

Strong's Greek: 2889. κόσμος (kosmos) -- order, the world

 

[mailmandan]

Grace is the unmerited favor of God in which God shows us mercy, kindness, and patience instead of the judgment that we deserve for sinning against Him. God's grace cannot be earned by our actions. Grace is based on the character of God and not on our performance or ability to keep the law. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 11:6 - "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

We are saved by grace through faith, not works, not of ourselves it is the gift of God. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Galatians 2:21 - "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

2 Timothy 1:9 - "who has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity."

Yet God's grace (enabling power) operates sovereignly in the lives of believers.

1 Corinthians 15:10 - But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.

2 Corinthians 1:12 - For our proud confidence is this: the testimony of our conscience, that in holiness and godly sincerity, not in fleshly wisdom but in the grace of God, we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially toward you.

2 Corinthians 12:9 - And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age.

 

[Rockson]

2 Corinthians 5:18–20 (NASB 2020) — 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

And world does not mean the unconditionally elected

So in not understanding what Jesus came and did for the WORLD what value is there then in the Calvinistic message. I'd say absolutely none in fact it's design from the one who brought it forth (and I'm not talking about flesh and blood here) was to neutralize the minds of ones who hear it to make them feel there's a possibility God doesn't even love them. Trusting and hoping some of our Calvinists friends would finally see their great error and recognize they need a new wineskin, paradigm way of thinking. What they're holding onto with all tenacity does not hold truth.

 

[TomL]

So in not understanding what Jesus came and did for the WORLD what value is there then in the Calvinistic message. I'd say absolutely none in fact it's design from the one who brought it forth (and I'm not talking about flesh and blood here) was to neutralize the minds of ones who hear it to make them feel there's a possibility God doesn't even love them. Trusting and hoping some of our Calvinists friends would finally see their great error and recognize they need a new wineskin, paradigm way of thinking. What they're holding onto with all tenacity does not hold truth.

Yes it is a great hope

 

[charismaticlady]

@TibiasDad :

The only thing unmerited about God’s grace is why, when and how it is given to us, but not what it is. Grace itself is not unmerited favor, Scripture defines grace as the divine power of God.

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me; nor do I count my life dear to myself, so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.

Acts 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

2 Peter 1:2-4 2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

1 Peter 1: 13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.” (No one can be holy except by the power of God.)

Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Acts 4:33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

Acts 11:23 When he came and had seen the grace of God, he was glad, and encouraged them all that with purpose of heart they should continue with the Lord.

Acts 13:43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

Acts 14:3 Therefore they stayed there a long time, speaking boldly in the Lord, who was bearing witness to the word of His grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands.

2 Corinthians 12:9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Corinthians 8:1-4 Moreover, brethren, we make known to you the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia: 2 that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded in the riches of their liberality. 3 For I bear witness that according to their ability, yes, and beyond their ability, they were freely willing, 4 imploring us with much urgency that we would receive the gift and the fellowship of the ministering to the saints. 5 And not only as we had hoped, but they first gave themselves to the Lord, and then to us by the will of God. 6 So we urged Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also complete this grace in you as well. 7 But as you abound in everything—in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in all diligence, and in your love for us—see that you abound in this grace also.

Ephesians 1:19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power

Ephesians 3:7 …of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,

Philippians 1:7 just as it is right for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart, inasmuch as both in my chains and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers with me of grace.

Romans 15:13 Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 15:19 19 in mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God, so that from Jerusalem and round about to Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Corinthians 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.

2 Timothy 1:7-9 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. 8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

1 Peter 1:5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 5:10 But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.

2 Peter 3:18 ..but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ…

2 Corinthians 9:13-15 while, through the proof of this ministry, they glorify God for the obedience of your confession to the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal sharing with them and all men, 14 and by their prayer for you, who long for you because of the exceeding grace of God in you. 15 Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!

Galatians 2:19-21 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

2 Timothy 2:1 You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

 

[TibiasDad]

Reconciliation is Salvation from the charges of sin, they are not imputed to the reconciled world.

Reconciliation is the restoration of relationship between two or more parties. It can only occur after sins are forgiven and enmity is removed.

and Be ye reconciled is the call to faith in what has taken place, its in the passive voice, meaning they are being acted upon.

Only God has the power to reconcile a relationship, for God is the offended party. Only he can forgive, only he can allow the offender into his presence and accept him.

Thus, we are always passive participants, but that doesn’t make us inactive participants. The preaching of the gospel is the cry to all unreconciled people that God is willing to restore the relationship between them, and compelling them to allow him to restore the peace between them.

Also the imperative is issued to them that are already reconciled Vs 18-19 show that.

It is illogical to tell a reconciled person to be reconciled! Only unreconciled persons need to be reconciled! The imperative is not directed at God but at men! “Let God restore you!” is the meaning of “Be reconciled”.


Doug

 

[civic]

Reconciliation is the restoration of relationship between two or more parties. It can only occur after sins are forgiven and enmity is removed.



Only God has the power to reconcile a relationship, for God is the offended party. Only he can forgive, only he can allow the offender into his presence and accept him.

Thus, we are always passive participants, but that doesn’t make us inactive participants. The preaching of the gospel is the cry to all unreconciled people that God is willing to restore the relationship between them, and compelling them to allow him to restore the peace between them.



It is illogical to tell a reconciled person to be reconciled! Only unreconciled persons need to be reconciled! The imperative is not directed at God but at men! “Let God restore you!” is the meaning of “Be reconciled”.


Doug

Amen I’m reminded of Genesis 15

When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torchappeared and passed between the pieces.18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi[e] of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates— 19 the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, 20 Hittites,Perizzites, Rephaites, 21 Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.”

 

[brightfame52]

Reconciliation is the restoration of relationship between two or more parties. It can only occur after sins are forgiven and enmity is removed.



Only God has the power to reconcile a relationship, for God is the offended party. Only he can forgive, only he can allow the offender into his presence and accept him.

Thus, we are always passive participants, but that doesn’t make us inactive participants. The preaching of the gospel is the cry to all unreconciled people that God is willing to restore the relationship between them, and compelling them to allow him to restore the peace between them.



It is illogical to tell a reconciled person to be reconciled! Only unreconciled persons need to be reconciled! The imperative is not directed at God but at men! “Let God restore you!” is the meaning of “Be reconciled”.


Doug

Reconciliation is Salvation, and thats on you to put your logic over what the scripture declares.

 

[civic]

Reconciliation is Salvation, and thats on you to put your logic over what the scripture declares.

Nope it is not the same or else universalism would be true if they were the same.

Next

hope this helps !!!

 

[brightfame52]

Nope it is not the same or else universalism would be true if they were the same.

Next

hope this helps !!!

Say what you will, Reconciliation is Salvation