Ephesians 2:8 salvation is the gift

Ephesians 2:8 [YLT] for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift,

Faith is not the gift,
False.
salvation is, see below in Ephesians 2:8

1- salvation - being saved is by grace
2- salvation by grace comes by/thought faith ( genitive case )
3- salvation by grace does not come from yourself- this ( nominative case ) refers to salvation ( nominative case ) which is the gift by Gods grace.
4- salvation is the gift (nominative case )of Gods grace

conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift
True.
not faith.
False.

SALVATION is indeed the GIFT of God, and as you noted yourself in point #2, there is no salvation without FAITH, making FAITH part of SALVATION which is all "of God the gift" and "not of you".

You need to stop trying to claim credit for God's gift ... God SAID it is NOT of you.
 
Ephesians 2:8 [YLT] for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift,


False.

True.

False.

SALVATION is indeed the GIFT of God, and as you noted yourself in point #2, there is no salvation without FAITH, making FAITH part of SALVATION which is all "of God the gift" and "not of you".

You need to stop trying to claim credit for God's gift ... God SAID it is NOT of you.
my Brother in Christ @civic

Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Since God is "giving" i want to be receiving = everyday

Our faith comes from hearing and hearing by the Word of God = everyday

looking to JESUS the Author(Beginning) and the Finisher(End) of faith = everyday
 
@civic
What a mess is made from this passage to support a doctrine that does not exist in Scripture. Jesus and the Apostles teach faith is mans responsibility, not Gods.
And "you" just gave a practical exhibition and explanation of art of this!
As a former calvinist

civic, you must had been a very confused Calvinist, and indeed there are many of them out there and I find fault them as I do with you ~ most of which come from the Reformed community of believer.
 
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@civic

And "you" just gave a practical exhibition and explanation of art of this!
In support of @civic and Truth i understand and believe that God gave to us the ability to respond as God is Calling.

Of course the ability to respond is given by God BUT also the ability to resist was already given to all of us thru sin.

We can SEE this CLEAR as Day in Hebrews chapter 4
Even MORE CLEAR is this from Romans chapter 2


Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God.

Always side with TRUTH
 
@DavidTree
But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
My brother, this statement is incorrect ~ free justification is not a promise concerning our faith, but free justification is by two immutable acts of God..... His holy oath and his promises of free grace to the seed of Jesus Christ BASED UPON HIS FAITH AND OBEDIENCE, not our.

Romans 3:22​

“Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:”

Philippians 3:9
“And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:”

Galatians 2:16​

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

Galatians 2:20​

“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”

Acts 3:16​

“And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.”
 
Since God is "giving" i want to be receiving = everyday

I would assume all here do. Those who were predestined and those with free will.
Our faith comes from hearing and hearing by the Word of God = everyday

This is a true statement.

That is why I got my faith at a young age, and it was my choice to believe to avoid hell back then.
Having matured I see that was a fairly dumb reason , but I now have the gift of Salvation, by having been saved, by my faith in Christ Jesus.
looking to JESUS the Author(Beginning) and the Finisher(End) of faith = everyday
 
@ap
@DavidTree

My brother, this statement is incorrect ~ free justification is not a promise concerning our faith, but free justification is by two immutable acts of God..... His holy oath and his promises of free grace to the seed of Jesus Christ BASED UPON HIS FAITH AND OBEDIENCE, not our.

Romans 3:22​

“Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:”

Philippians 3:9
“And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:”

Galatians 2:16​

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

Galatians 2:20​

“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”

Acts 3:16​

“And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.”
Read again please for the mystery/confusion/debate has been SOLVED by the Word that KNEW this would be beforehand.

A.) "But the Scripture has confined all under sin,
B.) that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ
C.)
might be given to those who believe."

There is a responsibility that God placed in Adam & Eve and everyman since = believe One Way or the other(satan)

Once Adam sinned, satan gained control over mankind and death reigned.
For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Everything we have need of for Salvation is provided/given to us Freely thru CHRIST
Now God has enabled us to receive as HE enables us to hear and that is when God's Will meets with our will to believe.


We are not forced to believe = we are given the ability(GRACE) to hear and receive

This is the Truth that @civic sees = we are not forced to believe
The Truth of Salvation is that it is freely GIVEN to those who believe by the faith that also is GIVEN


 
@DavidTree
In support of @civic and Truth i understand and believe that God gave to us the ability to respond as God is Calling.
David, it is not that God gave the ability, it is a blessed truth of the word of God that Christ has, is, and will build his church upon THIS ROCK, and what rock is that? It is a truth of the holy scriptures, that whosoever is a true member of the Church of Jesus Christ, became such by Divine revelation of God, by creating a new man within them, and that new after the image of Jesus Christ has the power to believe, see, and know the truth. Just as Peter's confession of whom Jesus was.
 
In support of @civic and Truth i understand and believe that God gave to us the ability to respond as God is Calling.

Of course the ability to respond is given by God BUT also the ability to resist was already given to all of us thru sin.

We can SEE this CLEAR as Day in Hebrews chapter 4
Even MORE CLEAR is this from Romans chapter 2


Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God.

Always side with TRUTH
clap.gif
 
@DavidTree
Read again please for the mystery/confusion/debate has been SOLVED by the Word that KNEW this would be beforehand.
David, I'll be back later on this afternoon and will respond to your post.
 
I would assume all here do. Those who were predestined and those with free will.


This is a true statement.

That is why I got my faith at a young age, and it was my choice to believe to avoid hell back then.
Having matured I see that was a fairly dumb reason , but I now have the gift of Salvation, by having been saved, by my faith in Christ Jesus.
The fear of hell is not a "dumb reason" = for JESUS strongly promoted us to fear Judgment and Hell
Godly Fear = My first response to the Gospel = conviction of sin in my heart = which led to Great JOY = Forgiveness

God's concern is not what method of reasoning from His Word that we are saved but that we hear His Word and are SAVED

Let us LOOK at just a few of the MANY warnings(fear) that JESUS made CLEAR for us to fear!!!

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell

John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the
unquenchable fire.

And these will go away into
eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 
In support of @civic and Truth i understand and believe that God gave to us the ability to respond as God is Calling.

Of course the ability to respond is given by God BUT also the ability to resist was already given to all of us thru sin.

We can SEE this CLEAR as Day in Hebrews chapter 4
Even MORE CLEAR is this from Romans chapter 2


Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God.

Always side with TRUTH
Grace always precedes everything yet God has given man the personal responsibility to believe and receive the gospel. That’s on man.
 
@ap

Read again please for the mystery/confusion/debate has been SOLVED by the Word that KNEW this would be beforehand.

A.) "But the Scripture has confined all under sin,
B.) that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ
C.)
might be given to those who believe."

There is a responsibility that God placed in Adam & Eve and everyman since = believe One Way or the other(satan)

Once Adam sinned, satan gained control over mankind and death reigned.
For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Everything we have need of for Salvation is provided/given to us Freely thru CHRIST
Now God has enabled us to receive as HE enables us to hear and that is when God's Will meets with our will to believe.


We are not forced to believe = we are given the ability(GRACE) to hear and receive

This is the Truth that @civic sees = we are not forced to believe
The Truth of Salvation is that it is freely GIVEN to those who believe by the faith that also is GIVEN
Yes Gods grace always precedes the hearing and believing in the gospel but it’s mans responsibility to believe. God does not zap some with faith while not zapping others with faith. Calvinists would have us think God gives some unbelievers faith while not giving most all humans no faith.
 
@DavidTree

David, it is not that God gave the ability, it is a blessed truth of the word of God that Christ has, is, and will build his church upon THIS ROCK, and what rock is that? It is a truth of the holy scriptures, that whosoever is a true member of the Church of Jesus Christ, became such by Divine revelation of God, by creating a new man within them, and that new after the image of Jesus Christ has the power to believe, see, and know the truth. Just as Peter's confession of whom Jesus was.
ABSOLUTELY = Thank You

And it does not conflict with Scripture posted in 264 & 267
 
Yes Gods grace always precedes the hearing and believing in the gospel but it’s mans responsibility to believe. God does not zap some with faith while not zapping others with faith. Calvinists would have us think God gives some unbelievers faith while not giving most all humans no faith.
Took me a while(which is responsible thinking) to sort this all out as i read thru everyone's posts and the Scriptures

i do not like to rush to judgment because it usually backfires
 
@DavidTree
Read again please for the mystery/confusion/debate has been SOLVED by the Word that KNEW this would be beforehand.
Greetings David,

I know very well the mystery hidden from ages and from generations, but is now is made known to his saints, which is: "Christ IN YOU," the hope of glory.

Colossians 1:26​

Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:”

This mystery is made known to his saints, not to the world, but to those whom the Father will reveal Himself.

Matthew 11:25-27​

“At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

I have said this to prepare the way to answer your poist according to the word of God. You said:
A.) "But the Scripture has confined all under sin,
Amen, very true according to the testimony of the Spirits of God.
B.) that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ
C.)
might be given to those who believe."
David, as I said above, this is incorrect and not according to the testimony of God's word. As I said above:
My brother, this statement is incorrect ~ free justification is not a promise concerning our faith, but free justification is by two immutable acts of God..... His holy oath and his promises of free grace to the seed of Jesus Christ BASED UPON HIS FAITH AND OBEDIENCE, not our.
Our faith, ever so weak most of the time, is not the means of our legal justification, that impossible, for if that be so, if so, according to most, then Jesus Christ died in vain, if God's righteousness is given based upon man's works of the flesh, (for that's all he has before one is born again,) then why did Christ have to come and live and died in order for us to be redeem, if all one needs to do is excise faith as though it is just that easy to do, living in a body of SIN and death...a body that is at enmity against the God of heaven. All who believe this lie, the "mystery of Christ" to a degree is still hidden from them. No pun intended, but we must be faithful to God's testimony concerning His Son, and we will.
+
There is a responsibility that God placed in Adam & Eve and everyman since = believe One Way or the other(satan)
Well, I have never read it that way, and neither have you~God did indeed give Adam one simple commandment to do, with a warning of not doing so, what would happen, and he disobey the God that created him, as soon as God left him to himself, without any assistance to keep him from disobeying, even though all he needed to live a perfect life of happiness was provided for him, with one exception, God did not provide him total security from disobey and falling into the judgement that was given to him. Adam had nothing but the power of his will to overcome whatever may come to him to cause him to disobey God. So, the fault was THE FLESH, not having the power to obey God perfectly, even angels without God providing security for them by his election of them fell into sin immediately, as soon as he left them to themselves! God alone is immutable.

The New Covenant of Grace provided for us a security of making sure we inherit eternal life, but it was through the Son of God, and his perfect life of faith and obedience to God's word, and all he stood as their surety will inherit eternal life BASED on Christ's life of faith and obedience not their! This is the mystery of Christ revealed in the NT. We are members of his body he being the head thereof, our bodies are the temple of the Living God, which gives us hope of glory that we all will be partakers of who believes ~ our faith being the evidence thereof, not the means of obtaining!
Once Adam sinned, satan gained control over mankind and death reigned.
For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
Agree
everything we have need of for Salvation is provided/given to us Freely thru CHRIST
Amen
Now God has enabled us to receive as HE enables us to hear and that is when God's Will meets with our will to believe.
Provide scripture, which I already know there are none to provide, you are just repeating what you have heard. If you make a statement then back up with proof, or better not to make it. We are not co-partners with Christ in our salvation from sin and condemnation. Man in the flesh has no power to do spiritual acts pleasing to God, imp[possible.
We are not forced to believe = we are given the ability(GRACE) to hear and receive
Forced? God simply created a new man within us, to give us the power to believe, we do so willing once we have a new nature which is what being born of the Spirit does for God's elect. I could give a few examples if you need them, just ask.
This is the Truth that @civic sees = we are not forced to believe
The Truth of Salvation is that it is freely GIVEN to those who believe by the faith that also is GIVEN
Coming back in the morning with a another posit addresses this very point.
 
A.) "But the Scripture has confined all under sin,
B.) that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ
C.)
might be given to those who believe."
@Red Baker says: "I said above, this is incorrect and not according to the testimony of God's word.
@Red Baker please explain how Galatians 3:22 is "incorrect"

There is no interpretation given on this passage from me = Galatians 3:22

"But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe."
 
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