The Definition of Grace

[charismaticlady]

'If we say that we have no sin,
we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins,
he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned,
we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.'
(1John 1:8-10)

'Then Peter said unto them,
Repent, and be baptized every one of you
in the name of Jesus Christ
for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.'
(Act 2:38)

Hello @charismaticlady,

In 1John 1:8, that you refer to, John is including himself, with his use of the word, 'we', in what he is saying; so are you saying that John is not born again? Also the believer has had their sins forgiven in their entirety on believing: So any further act of sinfulness on the believers part, is confessed, in acknowledgement of that fact; in gratitude to the One Who saved them by His grace. Unlike Acts 2:38, that you refer to, which is an initial act of repentance, leading to salvation.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

So does verse 6 who is not a Christian but SAYS he is. The key word is not "we" but "say." John explains better in chapter 2:4.

He who SAYS, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[TibiasDad]

LOL Don't you know NOTHING is impossible with God? Once your mind and heart are cleansed of all unrighteousness, and God is in control of your conscience, He starts working on pruning the fruit of the Spirit towards never stumbling. 2 Peter 1:2-11

1 Corinthians 2:14

This doesn’t answer my objection. Can saving grace ever be merited? By denying unmerited favor, you are implying that we deserve salvation. That is impossible! God cannot ever say we deserve his salvation.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

@TibiasDad

Can saving grace ever be merited?

Yes, but only by Christ, and its saving grace in that it actually saves by Grace them He died for. Rom 5:21

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[charismaticlady]

This doesn’t answer my objection. Can saving grace ever be merited? By denying unmerited favor, you are implying that we deserve salvation. That is impossible! God cannot ever say we deserve his salvation.

Doug

We have free choice. We didn't deserve His taking away our sin, but it is up to us to keep ourselves. 1 John 5:18. It is called obedience. That makes us abide in Him, and He in us. It is actual righteousness, not a righteous covering imputed to us, hiding the sin we keep committing as Calvinists believe. We become His brethren and conformed to His likeness.

 

[TibiasDad]

@TibiasDad



Yes, but only by Christ, and its saving grace in that it actually saves by Grace them He died for. Rom 5:21

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Then we cannot merit it. Christ cannot merit salvation because he doesn’t need saving. Christ provides grace, for those whom are undeserving.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Then we cannot merit it. Christ cannot merit salvation because he doesn’t need saving. Christ provides grace, for those whom are undeserving.

Doug

His People needed saving, so He merited it for them Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

 

[TibiasDad]

We have free choice. We didn't deserve His taking away our sin, but it is up to us to keep ourselves. 1 John 5:18. It is called obedience. That makes us abide in Him, and He in us.

We are made capable to obey by the work of Christ and the indwelling of the Spirit, and thus we are responsible to “live by the Spirit”, and we will get the result of our choices, either life or death. (Rom 8:12-13)

It is actual righteousness, not a righteous covering imputed to us, hiding the sin we keep committing as Calvinists believe. We become His brethren and conformed to His likeness.

I will agree with you on this. As we “walk in the light as he is in the light” we become righteous.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

His People needed saving, so He merited it for them Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Matthew doesn’t say Christ merited for us, it says that his purpose was to save us from our sins. We do not deserve to be saved, we have not earned being saved, thus, it is an unearned and undeserved gift.

He saves because he chooses to save us, not because we have deserved it or have been made to merit salvation.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Matthew doesn’t say Christ merited for us, it says that his purpose was to save us from our sins. We do not deserve to be saved, we have not earned being saved, thus, it is an unearned and undeserved gift.

He saves because he chooses to save us, not because we have deserved it or have been made to merit salvation.

Doug

Matt 1:21 doesnt say Christ didnt merit Grace and Salvation for His People, not every one. Now its an undeserved Gift to them it saved, but it cost Christ His Life. And everyone He died for is saved. If a person isnt saved, and dies in unbelief, Christ didnt die f0r them

 

[TibiasDad]

Matt 1:21 doesnt say Christ didnt merit Grace and Salvation for His People, not every one.

???

Doug

 

[charismaticlady]

We are made capable to obey by the work of Christ and the indwelling of the Spirit, and thus we are responsible to “live by the Spirit”, and we will get the result of our choices, either life or death. (Rom 8:12-13)


I will agree with you on this. As we “walk in the light as he is in the light” we become righteous.

Doug

Looks like we are on the same page, brother Doug.

 

[Complete]

We are made capable to obey by the work of Christ and the indwelling of the Spirit, and thus we are responsible to “live by the Spirit”, and we will get the result of our choices, either life or death. (Rom 8:12-13)


I will agree with you on this. As we “walk in the light as he is in the light” we become righteous.

Doug

'If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness,
we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light,
we have fellowship one with another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves,
and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar,
and his word is not in us.'
(1Jn 1:6-10)

Hello @TibiasDad,

I believe you are inadvertently falling down a rabbit hole here with @charismatic lady, and misquoted the verse highlighted above. We do not, 'become' righteous. for the believer in Christ Jesus is already righteous before God in Him.

The righteousness of God is a gift ascribed to us who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It is given to us, it cannot be earned, or lost. It is not influenced by our walk in any way. We walk in newness of life before the father now in spirit, in Christ Jesus, regardless of the failure of the flesh to respond in kind: In His sight we stand in Christ 'Holy and without blame', our sins having been forgiven, 'accepted in the Beloved', and 'complete in Him'. This is the reckoning of God by faith. We are to take this reckoning of God and live in the light of it, for only then are we empowered to live accordingly . We reckon ourselves to be, 'dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God', through Christ Jesus our risen Lord: regardless of what evidence we see in the flesh that would try to convince us otherwise. The flesh counts for nothing in regard to our standing before God in Christ Jesus our Lord. This is a walk by faith, by reckoning on the all-sufficiency of the finished work of Christ.

We obviously seek to walk worthy of the calling that we have received, for in doing so, we go on to perfection, or maturity, in the hope of gaining the prize of reigning with Christ if we endure unto the end: For the prize we can lose, but life in Christ we cannot lose, because, 'the gifts and calling of God are without repentance;.

Thank you for your input
In Christ Jesus
Chris​

 

[charismaticlady]

We walk in newness of life before the father now in spirit, in Christ Jesus, regardless of the failure of the flesh to respond in kind

The invisibility cloak doctrine is error. God sees everything. Jesus takes away our sin OUT OF OUR NATURE, to not sin in the here and now. That is the old man in Romans 6:5-7. "5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin."

 

[civic]

Then we cannot merit it. Christ cannot merit salvation because he doesn’t need saving. Christ provides grace, for those whom are undeserving.

Doug

Bingo the heresy that Christ needed salvation , the new birth and suffered in hell for our sins. I’ve seen quite a bit of these false doctrines online lately.

 

[charismaticlady]

What does this have to do with the idea of God’s favor being unmerited?


Doug

The apostles taught that grace is the power of God. Where do you see "unmerited favor" written as the definition of grace?

 

[charismaticlady]

This doesn’t answer my objection. Can saving grace ever be merited? By denying unmerited favor, you are implying that we deserve salvation. That is impossible! God cannot ever say we deserve his salvation.

Doug

You can add to God's word and never arrive at the truth. But I choose the Word of God interpreting the Word of God.

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me; nor do I count my life dear to myself, so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.

Acts 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

If Jesus could repent for us, then it would be unmerited; but it is we who arrives at repenting and Jesus in turn gives us the power of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38 REPENT ... and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[brightfame52]

The apostles taught that grace is the power of God. Where do you see "unmerited favor" written as the definition of grace?

Its Both, Spiritual Power and its undeserved, Grace is

 

[Rockson]

I will agree with you on this. As we “walk in the light as he is in the light” we become righteous.

Id say this a little bit different but I'd like to believe we're all really on the same page just maybe talking past each other.

I'd say we have already been made the righteousness of God through Christ Jesus our Lord. due to the precious blood of Jesus which has blotted out our sin. That doesn't mean we can't effect our righteousness consciousness by falling into sin but then if we confess our sins he's faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I'd say when we walk in the light as he's in the light and progressive do so it's not that we become more righteous but rather that we're being more conformed to the image of Christ. Being conformed to the image of Christ isn't get saved and you've arrived but it is a going from glory to glory. A young saint is however righteous by Jesus righteousness but he's growing into perfection.

 

[charismaticlady]

Its Both, Spiritual Power and its undeserved, Grace is

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

You forget that Jesus makes us worthy. He is the author and finisher of our faith. I thank Him for who He's made me. If you keep sinning, then you're right. You are unworthy, but you will not be known by Him. "Depart from me." Matthew 7:19:23

If you don't confirm your beliefs with proof from Scripture, don't respond. I'm not interested in doctrines of men like "unmerited."

 

[brightfame52]

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

You forget that Jesus makes us worthy. He is the author and finisher of our faith. I thank Him for who He's made me. If you keep sinning, then you're right. You are unworthy, but you will not be known by Him. "Depart from me." Matthew 7:19:23

If you don't confirm your beliefs with proof from Scripture, don't respond. I'm not interested in doctrines of men like "unmerited."

I don't know what you talking about