Ephesians 2:8 salvation is the gift

[Red Baker]

So lets with an open mind, without presuppositions read what the Bible says about the Son and His pre existence as the Son in Scripture. Here are many passages which confirm He is the Eternal Son who created all things and was together with the Father before creation as the Son

First, I desire for you to practice what you are here preaching ~You said: "So lets with an open mind, without presuppositions read what the Bible says about the Son and His pre existence as the Son in Scripture."

So, I must ask you why did you not even attempted to address these following points:

And we ask~"How can eternal generation of the Son of God be accepted as biblical truth, and for those still holding such doctrine still contend that Jesus Christ is self-existence and independent"? We shall prove that this is an impossibility and a contradiction of terms used in the eternal Sonship defense.

Also:

Reason #1~The Eternal Sonship is a dogma that is discredited logically by self contradiction. To contend that Jesus was eternally begotten is a manifest contradiction of term. We ask: can an object begin and not begun? No. The saying within itself is most absurd. Why do not people consider this, and understand it? Acts 28:25-27 is the answer. I'm putting my next statement this in a box quote to emphasize its important and to isolate it so one can fully ponder the words carefully and think on them before responding:

Please consider carefully: Eternity is that which has no beginning, nor stands in reference to time ~ Son supposes time, generation, and father; time is also antedent to such generation ~ therefore, the conjunction of the two terms: Son and eternity ~ is absolutely impossible as they imply different and opposite ideal. Words must have meaning, or else, how can we communicate with each other on a level where we can understand each other? I understand eternity and I also understand the word son, and so do my readers, and we should know how to use each word properly, without confusing the meaning of either.

Again:

Question #3~ "What part of Jesus Christ was derived from God?"

Surely not his Divine Nature! if One God can be derived, why not many? Many Mighty Gods and Everlasting Fathers, (there not many, but ONE, revealed to us as three, according to their work in the affairs of creation, and the salvation of the elect seed of Jesus Christ) many first Causes, and last End of all things! The Eternal Spirit of God is not capable of diminution or divisibility, that is an impossibility. This would be going against what his word teaches us, that we should have no other gods before Him.

I'm going to address each scripture you present and I desire you to show the same respect to what I have presented to you~ so far you have not.

John 17:1, 5
“Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You,

And now, Father, glorify Me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Notice above its the Son with the Father sharing the same glory together with Hm before creation, before the world came into existence. The same below. The Word who was God is the Son. Scripture interprets scripture. Hermenuetics 101.

civic, this is not difficult ~Jesus Christ in his Divinity was God, and the glory of the Godhead and its fulness fully dwelt IN HIM as God manifest in human flesh. There were NOT two separate God's in Genesis 1:1 but ONE.

Deuteronomy 6:4​

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:”

Philippians 2:6​

“Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:”

Colossians 2:9​

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”

This can only be true, if he was the I AM THAT I AM, without any qualifications. So, yes before Christ took on the form of servant, he was the Word in the beginning that was God, who spoke the worlds into existence. As a Son, he was praying unto His father who is a Spirit that lives in eternity.

Hebrews 1:1-2
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

Verse 2 is talking about the son and it says that God made the universe through him, (in the context of him being a son).

This is true of Christ's Divinity, being the the everlasting father of all things! Isaiah 9:6 All things were created by him, and for him.

Colossians 1:16,17​

“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

This is "only" true if we understand that the God of Genesis 1:1 is Jesus Christ in his Divinity as the eternal God, the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and end of all things.

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9;You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
10He also says,
“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.

And Here Jesus who is both God and man says that the Father sent the Son. This shows the Son existing before becoming man.

John 3:17
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.

John tells us the same below:

1 John 4:9
This is how God’s love was revealed among us: God sent His one and only Son into the world, so that we might live through Him.

1 John 4:10
10In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son as the atoning sacrifice for our sins.


And love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as the atoning sacrifice for our sins.

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent His Son to be the Savior of the world.

As does Paul below:

Romans 8:3
For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh,

Galatians 4:4-5
But when the time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, / to redeem those under the law, that we might receive our adoption as sons.

We have already address this, once ~ Again, however God sent Jesus into the world, He sent His disciples the same way (John 17:18)! However God sent His Son, He sent His servants the same way before Him (Matthew 21:33-39). When was John the Baptist sent from God (John 1:6)? Before or after he was born to Elisabeth? So was Jesus sent from God. Isaiah illustrates how a man is sent by God – called to service (Isaiah 6:8; Romans 10:15). The Son God sent forth to redeem was made of a woman (Gal 4:4-5). Note the grammar!

 

[civic]

My last on this because you either cannot or will not see what I see.

I see the 2nd person of the Trinity who started out as the Word, and eventually was picked, chosen, or volunteered to come to earth as a human being to straighten out the mess mankind was making of things. He did not lose all of His divine attributes
as were exampled in the Holy Bible but without him as a sacrifice we would still be killing and sacrificing animals.

There is no reason that this Spirit who was chosen or volunteered for the job had to carry the title Son because there is no record the Father was ever called Father pre creation.

If that makes me a heretic.... then Ill be joining the likes of Calvin in eternity.

Vaya con Dios....

The Trinity is eternal - Father, Son, Holy Spirit