FreeInChrist
Active Member
Mr Baker, did I bother you all the days you went missing during your move? NO. And I should not take the time to respond to you now, except the move is delayed a day due to horrible rain.... or should I now call you Pastor Red, perhaps Brother Red in your newly formed "religious" group you are teaching and preaching to.@FreeInChrist
So, why are you trying to impress us with your Greek knowledge, as though it matters?
Who really cares about a language that none of us can speak?
This was written shorty after the KJV came off the press.
"The Priests say that we know not the original, and our Bibles are not rightly translated, nor cannot be pronounced according to the original; besides in translations there are errors, for no translation is simply authentical, and the undoubted Word of God. We demand of you, answer if you can; as to how know you that your Hebrew and Greek copies are true copies? Is it not possible for any to write contrary to their copy, if copies may be printed false, they may be written false, the art of Printing is not above 350 years old. Can you produce the first original copy, or any of those the Apostles wrote? If not, the cause is the same and you know the original no more than those that know not Greek or Hebrew? If you may depend upon the faithfulness of the Writer and Printer of your Copies, why not others upon those that did it upon oath? Doctor Fulke in his confutation of the Rheims Testament justifieth the English Translation of the Bible, in his “New Testament Confutation,” printed in 1589. But we receive not the truth by tradition. I would know of you that are so for Hebrew and Greek, &c., if the knowledge of the tongues be sufficient to teach those that have those tongues the mind of the Spirit of God in the Scriptures or no? If yea, then all that know these tongues know the mind of God; if no, then it is but an insufficient help, and what is an insufficient help worth more than nothing. The knowledge of Greek and Hebrew is a help to read a Greek and Hebrew Bible, because else they cannot read them. So the knowledge of the English tongue is of necessity to read the English Bible. The cause is the same; but the understanding the English tongue, and reading it in the Bible cannot give them to understand, the meaning of it no more than the knowledge of the tongues Greek and Hebrew though it helps them to read the Bible in those tongues, yet is not able to give them to understand the meaning of it. That this is so, some of them, who know the tongues confess; for Apollo was a learned man, he saw the first copies of the Bible, and if that could have caused him to know the mind of God what need had he to learn of Aquila a tradesman {one of the laity as the Priests use to say} and Priscilla his wife the mind of God as he did. Acts.18:26. Also what is the reason that those that know the tongues cannot agree among themselves? What is the mind of God in his Word, that some of you in your expositions are as contrary to each other as light is to darkness; the natural man cannot perceive the things that be of God; a natural man may be, and some are learned men it’s confessed; some of the Jesuits are good Scholars, &c., for they know the tongues, &c.; then it will follow a man may be such a learned man and yet cannot understand nor perceive the things of God. Nicodemus was a great scholar and teacher in Israel yet how simple was he concerning the meaning of Christ’s words. Tell me then what a help their human learning is to them in spiritual knowledge in the things of the Spirit. The Word saith that he reveals to us the deep things of God by his Spirit, I Cor.2:10; he saith not by Greek and Hebrew. If our translation be true then we can tell the meaning of it as well as you; if it be not true tell me what is that Preaching worth that is proved by a false translation, and if we must believe contrary to our translation because you say so, what is this but an implicit faith and human? And seeing you so differ among yourselves about the meaning of the word or the mind of God in it, tell me, how I may know which of you I am to believe? Also you confess that one word {in the ‘original’} could bear nine or ten divers significations; how know you which of them is the mind of God in that place, unless he reveal it to you? And if God please he can reveal it to a simple man, and God doth do so, and this is that for which Christ thanks his Father, because he hath hid these things from the wise and the learned, and revealed it unto babes, “the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee; and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed; and the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee; and he saith, I am not learned.” “For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes; the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.” Isa.29:10-12. Neither of them can read it, both put it off for they cannot understand it, the unlearned thinks as he hath been taught, that if he were learned in Greek and Hebrew he could understand it; but the former who was such a learned man could not do it, it is hid from the learned; for it’s not in being learned, nor in not being learned. What then will some say, it is because God hath not revealed it to them therefore they do not know it. The Lord saith that none can know the things of God, but he to whom the Spirit will reveal them. “But as it is written, eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit, for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him, even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.” I Cor.2:9-16. “I have more understanding than all my teachers, for thy testimonies are my meditation. I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.” Psal.119:99-100. The knowledge of Greek, Hebrew and English are all human learning of equal excellency, necessity, and use for the translation and reading of the Bible; and as without the knowledge of Greek and Hebrew, the Bible could not be translated into English, so he that translated the Bible into English, could not have done it without the knowledge of the English tongue; therefore there is the same use and help and necessity of the English tongue as of the Greek or Hebrew tongue; so there is the same to be said for the French and Dutch tongue, and all other tongues and therefore why the Greek and Hebrew tongues should be of any more use and excellency than other tongues, there is no reason to be given for it. As Aaron the Priest set up the golden calf it was called a god and Aaron made Proclamation, Exod.32:4-8, &c., and the people idolized it and danced about it, so the Priests have set up Greek and Hebrew as a god, and the people rejoice exceedingly in it, for they idolize it and fall down and worship it, because the Priest have made a Proclamation for it and commended it for such a rare thing to help them to the knowledge of the mind of God. A golden business by custom is turned into necessity and it is in such an esteem as they do idolize it and worship it, as they did the calf. And because some of the Army see this Idolatry, the Presbyter is not pleased. Instead of allowing some errors, as we fear some among you endeavour a universal toleration of all Religions, it seems some errors may be allowed. But do the Scriptures allow it, or are you willing to allow of a few? As they endeavour for toleration for all apostates; then you shall have toleration, but that will not content you, though its doubted to allow your Religion openly, we see your principal is that you would have none tolerated but your selves, will not you be of the true Religion, unless ye be forced to it, or are you willing to be of a false. Religion, and to think it will be a sufficient excuse for you to say you are compelled to it or do you love to see the bodies of others tortured, and their estates ruined, because they are not of your Religion. “Instead of preserving the purity of Religion and the worship of God, we fear you are opening the door to desperate and damnable errors and heresies against the truth of God.” And so for fear of letting in of errors we must keep out the truth? It is better to let in twenty errors, than to keep out one truth, for truth is more good than evil is evil. It is better to suffer errors than to persecute the truth, and the Professors of it, for always by such fine pretenses and glosses we have been deprived of our liberty. We have fought for it as our treasure; persons and friends, and the blood of the brethren were laid down to be freed from the cruel Task-masters of Egypt, the Bishops and Presbyters yoke. Hear you not the wife say, my husband lost his life for the freedom of the people of God. Many children may truly say, my father spent his estate and laid down his life for my liberty, and the people of God. The Parliament and Army promised us the liberty, and for this they fought, if the Army had not provided for our liberties herein, they had not given us that which their consciences tell them is our due, they had deceived us, the equity of the thing pleads for us, many of the chief of them had never been soldiers, but to break asunder this iron yoke that was upon our necks and the Kingdoms. " Samuel RIchardson
If you had taken the time to read the replies before mine you would have understood
If you had been reading those who posted before me and their opinions of what was what I simply took the opportunity to actually tie the two of them indirectly together.
Why? Well, as Miss Dorothy Bryson would say to you... a word to the wise is sufficient.
And I did not think y'all would jump for joy if we got into Hebrew or Aramaic considering the subject matter and location.
Vaya con dios Red.... I'll be back when I am back but I will be keeping my eye on you and a few others.
