Christian and Catholic!

[praise_yeshua]

ABRAHAM WAS SAVED IN GEN 15

Gen 15: 4 And behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying, “This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir.” 5 Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”

6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

God saved him at this moment,

when Abraham offered up his son. KNOWING the promise, and as Paul said in romans KNOWING God would raise him from the dead.

His faith was perfected.

BUT HE WAS SAVED IN GEN !%

Your claim doesn't match the words you're referencing. They are not compatible and nothing you said makes them compatible.

If faith pleases God, then it doesn't need anything else to please God.

There is no need to fight the inevitable conclusion that James is wrong in what he said. Wrong at many levels.

 

[JLB]

Abraham was saved by faith in Gen 15 decades before he offered his son..

False.

Abraham was saved by faith when he obeyed the Gospel.


Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
So Abram departed as the LORD had spoken to him. Genesis 12:1-4

 

[JLB]

ABRAHAM WAS SAVED IN GEN 15

Gen 15: 4 And behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying, “This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir.” 5 Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”

6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

God saved him at this moment,

when Abraham offered up his son. KNOWING the promise, and as Paul said in romans KNOWING God would raise him from the dead.

His faith was perfected.

BUT HE WAS SAVED IN GEN !%

False Abraham was saved in Genesis 12… because he obeyed.


And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
Galatians 3:8


Check Mate!

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

False.

Abraham was saved by faith when he obeyed the Gospel.


Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
So Abram departed as the LORD had spoken to him. Genesis 12:1-4

I posted the passage to you..

Abraham believed god and God credited to him as righteousness. this is in Gen 15. Not gen 12

also note. yes abraham departed. but he did not do everything the lord said

he did not depart from his family. He took Lot and his family

he did not go directly to the promised land. He went north of there first.. against Gods command..

Maybe you should try to study some

but non of this matter. Your just proved my point. Abraham was not saved when he offered up his son. he was saved decades earlier. so in trying to prove me wrong in something, you hurt your own argument

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Check Mate!

Your check mate just check mated you

You just proved Abraham was not justified when he offered up his son.. and how James did not speak of eternal justificatrion by works.. But that Abraham proved his living faith by his works.

CHECK MATE!

 

[praise_yeshua]

False.

Abraham was saved by faith when he obeyed the Gospel.


Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
So Abram departed as the LORD had spoken to him. Genesis 12:1-4

No one knows when Abraham first understood the Gospel.

He lived the Gospel throughout his life in his own family. In similar fashion we do the same things ourselves. Loyalty to God is expressed in our descendants.

For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord to do justice and judgment, that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which He hath spoken of him.”

 

[praise_yeshua]

Your check mate just check mated you

You just proved Abraham was not justified when he offered up his son.. and how James did not speak of eternal justificatrion by works.. But that Abraham proved his living faith by his works.

CHECK MATE!

Nonsense. You would have considered Abraham a fool and God already knew that Abraham was a man of faith. Both of you are dead wrong. It will potentially affect your eternal state.

Genesis 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord to do justice and judgment, that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which He hath spoken of him.”

You're following men that are leading your astray.

 

[JLB]

I posted the passage to you..

Abraham believed god and God credited to him as righteousness. this is in Gen 15. Not gen 12

Yes. I know you posted Genesis 15 claiming that was when Abraham was saved by faith and plainly showed you that is not true.

Abraham was saved when he obeyed the Gospel in Genesis 12.

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
Galatians 3:8

• In you all the nations shall be blessed.”

This is a direct quote from Genesis 12.

 

[JLB]

You just proved Abraham was not justified when he offered up his son..

I proved Abraham was justified in Genesis 12 and was also justified again in Genesis 22.

Abraham was saved in Genesis 12.

 

[JLB]

No one knows when Abraham first understood the Gospel.

Abraham obeyed the Gospel in Genesis 12.

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
Galatians 3:8

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8

 

[praise_yeshua]

Abraham obeyed the Gospel in Genesis 12.

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
Galatians 3:8

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8

There is not a single word in what you posted that details when Abraham first believed the Gospel.

Abraham left all that he had in search of God. Abraham received faith from his ancestors. Even Enoch received his faith from Adam. Adam lived to the seventh generation. It is why Jude mentions Adam in the context of even Enoch.

You see points in time referenced in the Scriptures in the verses you reference. Only God knows when Abraham first believed and pleased God.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Abraham obeyed the Gospel in Genesis 12.

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
Galatians 3:8

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8

So you don't believe what God said about knowing Abraham? God knew Abraham would be faithful to Him throughout Abraham's life.

Justification is often misunderstood.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes. I know you posted Genesis 15 claiming that was when Abraham was saved by faith and plainly showed you that is not true.

No. I posted to you gen 15 in which GOD said Abraham was saved.

Abraham was saved when he obeyed the Gospel in Genesis 12.

He was not justified in Gen 12.

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
Galatians 3:8

• In you all the nations shall be blessed.”

This is a direct quote from Genesis 12.

lol. I am just repeating what God said.

When abraham was saved.

and again, it does not matter, your proving your whole argument for james 2 is in error.

thank you... Yuo want this voctroy, you can have it, the victory that James 2 is verified to not be about salvation is greater

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I proved Abraham was justified in Genesis 12 and was also justified again in Genesis 22.

Abraham was saved in Genesis 12.

lol. talk about a reversal.. you must be worried

Abraham was saved (justified) in gen 15.

Justification is in effect us being given Gods righteousness..

That did not happen when Abraham offered his son.

 

[praise_yeshua]

lol. talk about a reversal.. you must be worried

Abraham was saved (justified) in gen 15.

Justification is in effect us being given Gods righteousness..

That did not happen when Abraham offered his son.

You have no idea when Abraham was saved. You weren't there. God was. You're trying to make Abraham answer to you. He doesn't. No one does. One thing is for certain. It happened before he left everything he knew.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

James 2

so lets look at these two

In romans 4.

1. Paul says Abraham could not be saved by works. He was saved by faith only
2. Paul says if braham tried to work for it. He would have something to boast of (he saved himself) Paul used same words in Eph 2
3. Paul says if abraham worked for it, he would have incured debt, not grace
4. Paul says it is not those who work, but those who trust God who are saved
5. Paul says that righteousness is imputed to all men (not just abraham) apart from works (no works are involved)
6. Paul quote david, saying blessed is the man to whom God does not impute sin because he has forgiven those sins and they are covered

In james

1. James questioned people who said they had faith. But had no works (he did not question their lack of works. he questioned their claimed faith)
2. He then in order to stir them up to test their own faith, ask the question. can this faith (that is a hearer only not a doer. it has no works) save?
3. James then goes onto show them his own works. I will prove my faith by my works (just as abraham did as we will see)
4. He ten called them out. You prove to me your faith without works)
5. James then quoted the same quote from gen 15. which is when Abraham was saved (imputed righteousness)
6. And just as James said his works proved his faith, Abraham also had works to prove his faith.
7. James used an example of a work. Abraham offered up his son Isaac. (this occurred decades after Abraham was imputed righteousness in Gen 15. So Abraham was already saved when he did this work)
8. James then states the truth, When abraham offers his son, his faith was perfected (proven) and GOD was vindicated when he saved abraham many decades before.. which means God knew abrahams faith was reasl. and did not make a mistake

so here we have two passages, both in agreement

saly you and others like you want to look at james a totally different way. reject or ignore paul or twist paus words (as you do james words) and make them apposed to each other. causes james and paul to be at odds. making both of their writtings invalid and untrustworthy

You want to follow a word that can not be trusted. feel free. count me out

@mailmandan that was a post I made to another in another I forgot to let you know. was not directed at you..lol

 

[JLB]

There is not a single word in what you posted that details when Abraham first believed the Gospel.

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. Galatians 3:8

Here is Paul expounding on Genesis 12, saying God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand…

How did Abraham respond to God preaching the Gospel to him?


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


Here is the writer of Hebrews expounding on Genesis 12…


Do you understand the term “obeying the Gospel”?

Do you understand the term “the obedience of faith”?

 

[JLB]

So you don't believe what God said about knowing Abraham? God knew Abraham would be faithful to Him throughout Abraham's life.

Please share the scriptures that teach us this…

 

[JLB]

No. I posted to you gen 15 in which GOD said Abraham was saved.

No such scripture that says Abraham was saved in Genesis 15.

 

[JLB]

He was not justified in Gen 12.

Can you read?

Please read this words.

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. Galatians 3:8