What is the difference between eternal security, once saved always saved, and perseverance of the saints?
- Thread starter Hosanna
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Hosanna
Active Member
The moment you believe, you are secure forever. Once a person believes, he is God’s forever.
What Jesus’ promises us holds true. Once we partake of the bread of life, that is, once we believe in Him, we “will never hunger” John 6:35 The one who “lives and believes in Jesus shall never die” John 11:26
In John 6:39–40 Jesus said:
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
If anyone who believed in Jesus ever failed to make it into heaven, then Jesus will have failed to do the will of the Father! It isn’t that we need to stay faithful to keep eternal life. It is that He needs to stay faithful for us to keep it. And, of course, He will.
What Jesus’ promises us holds true. Once we partake of the bread of life, that is, once we believe in Him, we “will never hunger” John 6:35 The one who “lives and believes in Jesus shall never die” John 11:26
In John 6:39–40 Jesus said:
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
If anyone who believed in Jesus ever failed to make it into heaven, then Jesus will have failed to do the will of the Father! It isn’t that we need to stay faithful to keep eternal life. It is that He needs to stay faithful for us to keep it. And, of course, He will.
synergy
Active Member
It's also God's will that all are saved. Does that mean that all will be saved?
(1 Tim 2:4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (KJV)
Right! Once a person believes in Jesus, he is secure forever. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, a born-again person can do to cause himself to lose everlasting life, or to prove he never had it.
We are not regenerated because we have eternal faith. We are born again because the Savior promised that the moment we believe in Him, we are eternally secure. Faith in an unfailing Savior guarantees eternal life even if the faith later fails.
GodsGrace
Active Member
Phoebe,
those who believe as you do, end up making statements as the one you've made above:
"Right! Once a person believes in Jesus, he is secure forever. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, a born-again person can do to cause himself to lose everlasting life,"
Could you explain why, if your idea is true, there are so many warnings in the NT about continuing in the faith and about falling away and about persevering till the end?
Perhaps you've missed this type of scripture.
Why do you think Jesus said to obey His commandments IF we are His friend?
Which commandments would those be??
John 15:14
14 You are my friends if you do what I command.
Sure.
If our salvation is not secure, how could Jesus say about those to whom He gives eternal life, “and they shall never perish”?
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:28
If even one man or woman receives eternal life and then forfeits it through sin or apostasy, will they not perish? And by doing so, do they not make Jesus’ words a lie?
Can you explain this one?
GodsGrace
Active Member
Sure.
Check out all the verses you THINK assure you salvation.
BELIEVE is always in the present tense.
You must be BELIEVING at the time of your death.
Jesus said you must ABIDE in Him....
Abide means to live with.
No one can snatch you out of God's hand...
but you have the free will to walk away from it if you so desire.
A person that lives a life of sin or abandons God through apostacy is NOT abiding in Christ...
is NOT believing in Christ for their salvation and will NOT receive eternal life.
1 Timothy 4:10
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
Those who BELIEVE will receive salvation...
NOT those who do not obey Jesus or do not believe in Him.
And, BTW, to believe means to obey.
John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
The person who does not obey God will see God's wrath.
According to YOU, we don't need to obey God.
By your very own words....
Cosmo
Active Member
My experience has been that those who have problems with the doctrine of eternal security have a distorted understanding of what took place at the Cross. That may sound as if I am being critical. But in reality I am more puzzled than anything else.
When I think of Calvary, and the price that was paid to provide me with salvation, the thought of my having the power to undo all of that seems preposterous.
When I think of Calvary, and the price that was paid to provide me with salvation, the thought of my having the power to undo all of that seems preposterous.
GodsGrace
Active Member
The problem is that JESUS stated that salvation is a life-long process of obedience to Him.
If one obeys Jesus there is nothing to worry about.
There are, however, persons - even on this very forum - who will state that NOTHING THEY DO can ever let them forfeit their salvation.
Can YOU think of anywhere in Jesus teachings where HE stated this?
Maybe those that have a problem with eternal security understand BETTER what took place at the cross and desire to honor God and what was done for them.
Instead of cheapening God's grace.
Cheap Grace.
Not my phrase, but one coined to explain persons that think Jesus went to the cross so they could continue their life as before and disobey His commands.
Hosanna
Active Member
Why should God let you into heaven? If your answer includes words such as try, my best, church, believe in God, Sunday school, teach, or give, chances are that you still haven’t come to grips with the simple truth that salvation is by faith alone.
Ephesians 2:9 affirms that salvation is “not by works so that no one should boast.” It is difficult to imagine the text being much clearer. Works are excluded as the basis of salvation so that people cannot boast that their deeds contributed to their inclusion in the people of God.
Let me ask the question another way. What are you trusting in to get you into heaven? Is it Christ plus something? Or can you say with confidence that your hope and your trust are in Christ and Christ alone?
Ephesians 2:9 affirms that salvation is “not by works so that no one should boast.” It is difficult to imagine the text being much clearer. Works are excluded as the basis of salvation so that people cannot boast that their deeds contributed to their inclusion in the people of God.
Let me ask the question another way. What are you trusting in to get you into heaven? Is it Christ plus something? Or can you say with confidence that your hope and your trust are in Christ and Christ alone?
synergy
Active Member
There is no possible "undoing" of the Atonement. It is complete and finished for the entire world. It's calvinists who say it's incomplete because it's only for the elect - not enough forgiveness to go around for everyone who repents. And to top it off, it's calvinists who believe in the eternal security of only the elected - that nobody possesses volitional free choice. One error built upon another error.
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civic
Active Member
Scared, insecure, works , fear, robbed of the love of God in a caring relationship.
synergy
Active Member
Of course we trust in Christ. Trust, believe, repent are all action words that we must do in order to be saved. God does not repent for you, you must do your own repenting. Without those actions, there is no salvation. In other words, our salvation is synergistic, not monergistic.
Cosmo
Active Member
Faith and repentance are distinct concepts, but they cannot occur independently of each other. Genuine repentance is always the flip side of faith; and true faith accompanies repentance. Grace leads to repentance.
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To repent, in relation to salvation, is to change your mind in regard to sin and Jesus Christ.
synergy
Active Member
Repentance (and belief) makes salvation synergistic, not monergistic.
Hosanna
Active Member
Scripture exhorts that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). These bedrock truths are embraced in monergistic and synergistic theology alike, even as they diverge on whether this faith originates solely from God’s unilateral action or is in some manner cooperatively enacted by the believer.
When exploring monergism and synergism, it remains vital to hold fast to the overarching testimony of the Bible: the God who created all things opens a path of salvation exclusively through Jesus Christ (John 14:6). Trusting in this divine plan compels believers to humbly exult in the grace that rescues and to actively respond in faith, bearing fruit in obedience. As these doctrines have been discussed throughout church history, they have repeatedly driven home the central truth that Christ Himself is the ultimate source of redemption for everyone who believes (Romans 1:16-17).
synergy
Active Member
Not according to James or Paul. See James 2:24-26.
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Ephesians 2:9 is against works of the Law, not against the good works that God preordained for each one of us (Eph 2:10).
Monergism says that God repents for you. I don't and can't believe that.
Of course Christ is the ultimate source. You wouldn't be Christian if you claimed another source. The question is what is Christ's instructions for salvation? Paul lays them out in Rom 10:8-13 as being synergistic with action words such as confess, believe, and call.
8. But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Hosanna
Active Member
What does James 2:24 mean?
James continues to make the case that those who truly trust in God naturally end up participating in good works. As James showed in prior verses, no one can be saved by good works. Works are not required for salvation—they are a "symptom" of saving faith. In verse 22, he used the Greek word eteleiōthē to explain good works as the "completion," or the natural end result, of saving faith. James is urgently making the case that all those who are saved through faith by God's grace will participate in good works.It is in that spirit that James writes that a person is "justified" by works and not by faith alone. In verse 21, James used the concept of "justification," which some see as a contradiction to Paul's use of "justification" in passages such as Romans 4. Here, it is common for a reader to assume a contradiction with Romans 3:28: "For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law."
It's important to remember two things, however. First, James is not claiming works are required for salvation. His entire argument has been about what kind of faith actually saves. He is on the attack against the attitude that one can be saved by a faith that has no works. He has stated repeatedly
It is entirely true that the one verse in the Bible that contains the exact phrase “faith alone” seems to argue against salvation by faith alone. James 2:24 reads, “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone” (ESV). However, rejecting the doctrine of salvation by faith alone based on this verse has two major problems. First, the context of James 2:24 is not arguing against the doctrine of salvation by faith alone. Second, the Bible does not need to contain the precise phrase “faith alone” in order to clearly teach salvation by faith alone.
James 2:14–26, as a whole, and especially verse 24, has been the subject of some confused interpretations. The passage definitely seems to cause serious problems for the “salvation by faith alone” concept. First, we need to clear up a misconception, namely, that James means the same thing by “justified” in James 2:24 that Paul means in Romans 3:28. Paul is using the word justified to mean “declared righteous by God.” Paul is speaking of God’s legal declaration of us as righteous as Christ’s righteousness is applied to our account. James is using the word justified to mean “being demonstrated and proved.”
The 2011 NIV provides an excellent rendering of James 2:24: “You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone” (emphasis added). Similarly, the NLT translation of James 2:24 reads, “So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone” (emphasis added). The entire James 2:14–26 passage is about proving the genuineness of your faith by what you do. A genuine salvation experience by faith in Jesus Christ will inevitably result in good works (cf. Ephesians 2:10). The works are the demonstration and proof of faith (James 2:18). A faith without works is useless (James 2:20) and dead (James 2:17); in other words, it is not true faith at all. Salvation is by faith alone, but that faith will never be alone.
While James 2:24 is the only verse that contains the precise phrase “faith alone,” there are many other verses that do, in fact, teach salvation by faith alone. Any verse that ascribes salvation to faith/belief, with no other requirement mentioned, is a declaration that salvation is by faith alone. John 3:16 declares that salvation is given to “whoever believes in Him.” Acts 16:31 proclaims, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.” Ephesians 2:8 says, “For by grace you have been saved through faith.” See also Romans 3:28; 4:5; 5:1; Galatians 2:16; 3:24; Ephesians 1:13; and Philippians 3:9. Many other verses could be referenced in addition to these.
In summary, James 2:24 does not argue against salvation by faith alone. Rather, it argues against a salvation that is alone, a salvation devoid of good works and obedience to God’s Word. James’s point is that we demonstrate our faith by what we do (James 2:18). Regardless of the absence of the precise phrase “faith alone,” the New Testament definitely teaches that salvation is the product of God’s grace in response to our faith. “Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? . . . On that of faith” (Romans 3:27). There is no other requirement.
BibleRef.& Got?
synergy
Active Member
Whoever claims that needs to prove that. That is the litmus test. So, can you please proceed to "demonstrate," and to "prove" to us all the works that you've done so that you can be "justified" according to this article's definition of justification? The author of the article didn't so I'm not expecting anything different from anyone else who believes what he wrote.
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