Introducing the Son of (his) Father God - John 1:18, 20:17b

APAK said:
He (Son of God) was raised to become the word and power of his Father God on his royal throne in heaven

Referenced scripture: Hebrews 1:1-14

When The Father God spoke of his Son's new position and role in heaven he used language fitting for it.

(Heb 1:1) God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
(Heb 1:2) has in these last times spoken to us in the Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, on account of whom also He structured the ages.
(Heb 1:3) Who being the brightness of His glory and the exact image of His person, upholds all things by the word of his power. When he had accomplished the purification of sins, he then sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in Heaven.
(Heb 1:4) He thus became so much better than the angels, as he has inherited a more excellent name than they.
(Heb 1:5) For to which of the angels said He at any time: You are my Son, this day have I begotten you? And again: I will be to him a Father and he shall be to me a Son?
(Heb 1:6) And again, when He brings the firstborn into the world He says: And let all the angels of God worship him.
(Heb 1:7) And of the angels He says: Who makes His angels winds, and His servants a flame a fire.
(Heb 1:8) But of the Son He said: Your throne, O Mighty One, is for ever and ever, and the sceptre of your kingdom is a sceptre of uprightness.
(Heb 1:9) You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.
(Heb 1:10) And: You, Lord, in the beginning did lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of Your hands.
(Heb 1:11) They shall perish, but You continue; and they all shall wear out as does a garment,
(Heb 1:12) and like a cloak You shall roll them up as a garment, and they shall be changed; but You are the same and Your years are without end.
(Heb 1:13) But of which of the angels has He said at any time: Sit on my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet?
(Heb 1:14) Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to do service for the sake of those that shall inherit salvation?
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Verse 1 Speaks to the Father God speaking alone, and to the fathers of Abraham using the prophets as his agents and voice/word) in the past.

Verse 2 Then the Father God says this all changed. Since the last days, or since the Son was anointed, he now speaks by/through his Son who has great authority during the ages to come that the Father created.

Verse 3: The Son who is the bright light (beacon) of the Father's glory and his exact image, now maintains the world and other things in it by the word of the Father and his Spirit. And when the Son completed his mission to the Cross he then was placed with the full power of the Spirit of his Father, in heaven.

Verse 4: The Son became much greater than any angel and he inherited so much more than any of them.

Verse 5: The Father did not say of any angel, only to the Son, You are my Son and this day I created you. And he is his Father as the Son, his Father.

Verse 6: And when the Son was born, he announced that all angels of the Father worship him as the direct result of what/who the Father had created; for his own special purpose, and for us to restore us.

Verse 7: The Father God then speaks of how he used the angels in the past, as natural symbols, as the winds and flames of fire to represent him.

Verse 8: But for the Son, the Father now represented him quite differently. He gave his Son his throne to share that he shall use throughout the ages, and also the Father's Kingdom because of his righteousness.

Verse 9: Because of the Son's love for righteousness and hatred of sin and evil the Father God chose and anointed him above all other human men.

Verse 10: And then as a reminder once again, to make the point very clear, the Father God is the only Almighty and Supreme one, as he in the beginning of time and creation formed the earth and the heavens in the sky and the universe as his own personal works.

Verse 11 and 12 : And further, that his creation shall wear, age and die, except for those humans who he will transform into a new life, from decay and death into immortality. And that the Father never changes from eternity past into the future. He does not transform into anything at all, and always stays the same spirit and the same invisible form. He cannot become as part of his creation. It's impossible!

Verse 13 and 14: And the Father said, of which angel or angels did he give the right to sit on my throne in heaven? None, because they are meant to be as ministering spirits for those humans being saved or inherited salvation to this new life in the Kingdom of the Father.

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Who spoke to Moses in the burning bush?
 
Exodus 3:2-6
2 And the Messenger of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
5 And He said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
6 Moreover He said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

The Messenger of the Lord is "the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob" (Exodus 3:6).
 
Fred said:
Exodus 3:2-6
2 And the Messenger of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
5 And He said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
6 Moreover He said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

The Messenger of the Lord is "the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob" (Exodus 3:6).
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ALL THREE
 
Fred said:
Exodus 3:2-6
2 And the Messenger of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
5 And He said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
6 Moreover He said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

The Messenger of the Lord is "the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob" (Exodus 3:6).
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And for @DavidTree
I'm now really responding to Fred, David.

The messenger of the Lord in Exodus 3:2 is not YHWH Fred. It is a special angel.

God did communicate via an angels as a medium to express himself to mankind.
Now the messenger of the Lord or the Angel of the Lord performs a special duty. This angel can transform its into another form or into another person or even animal even to express God's message.

So we see all three examples in scripture.
1. Into a person when speaking to Abraham
2. When speaking to Moses being transformed into an unheated flaming fire/bush.
and 3. even influencing an animal as in Numbers 22 when the angel spoke the words of God inside a donkey beside guarding the way with a sword....

(Num 22:22) God’s anger was kindled because he went; and the angel of Yahweh placed himself in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him.
(Num 22:23) The donkey saw the angel of Yahweh standing in the way, with his sword drawn in his hand; and the donkey turned aside out of the way, and went into the field. Balaam struck the donkey, to turn her into the way.
(Num 22:24) Then the angel of Yahweh stood in a narrow path between the vineyards, a wall being on this side, and a wall on that side.
(Num 22:25) The donkey saw the angel of Yahweh, and she thrust herself to the wall, and crushed Balaam’s foot against the wall; and he struck her again.
(Num 22:26) The angel of Yahweh went further, and stood in a narrow place, where there was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left.
(Num 22:27) The donkey saw the angel of Yahweh, and she lay down under Balaam; and Balaam’s anger was kindled, and he struck the donkey with his staff.
(Num 22:28) Yahweh opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?
(Num 22:29) Balaam said to the donkey, Because you have mocked me, I wish there were a sword in my hand, for now I would have killed you.
(Num 22:30) The donkey said to Balaam, Am I not your donkey, on which you have ridden all your life long to this day? Was I ever in the habit of doing so to you? He said, No.
(Num 22:31) Then Yahweh opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of Yahweh standing in the way, with his sword drawn in his hand; and he bowed his head, and fell on his face.
(Num 22:32) The angel of Yahweh said to him, Why have you struck your donkey these three times? Behold, I have come forth as an adversary, because your way is perverse before me:
(Num 22:33) and the donkey saw me, and turned aside before me these three times. Unless she had turned aside from me, surely now I would have killed you, and saved her alive.
(Num 22:34) Balaam said to the angel of Yahweh, I have sinned; for I didn’t know that you stood in the way against me. Now therefore, if it displeases you, I will go back again.
(Num 22:35) The angel of Yahweh said to Balaam, Go with the men; but only the word that I shall speak to you, that you shall speak. So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.
(Num 22:36) When Balak heard that Balaam had come, he went out to meet him to the City of Moab, which is on the border of the Arnon, which is in the utmost part of the border.
(Num 22:37) Balak said to Balaam, Didn’t I earnestly send to you to call you? Why didn’t you come to me? Am I not able indeed to promote you to honour?
(Num 22:38) Balaam said to Balak, Behold, I have come to you. Have I now any power at all to speak anything? The word that God puts in my mouth, that shall I speak.
(Num 22:39) Balaam went with Balak, and they came to Kiriath Huzoth.
(Num 22:40) Balak sacrificed cattle and sheep, and sent to Balaam, and to the princes who were with him.
(Num 22:41) It happened in the morning, that Balak took Balaam, and brought him up into the high places of Baal; and he saw from there the utmost part of the people.


(Psa 104:4) He makes His Angels winds; His servants flames of fire.

This game of chess you are playing is already over and landed in checkmate I'm afraid Fred, as I also knew your next couple of moves.
 
APAK said:
And for @DavidTree
I'm now really responding to Fred, David.

The messenger of the Lord in Exodus 3:2 is not YHWH Fred. It is a special angel.

God did communicate via an angels as a medium to express himself to mankind.
Now the messenger of the Lord or the Angel of the Lord performs a special duty. This angel can transform its into another form or into another person or even animal even to express God's message.

So we see all three examples in scripture.
1. Into a person when speaking to Abraham
2. When speaking to Moses being transformed into an unheated flaming fire/bush.
and 3. even influencing an animal as in Numbers 22 when the angel spoke the words of God inside a donkey beside guarding the way with a sword....

(Num 22:22) God’s anger was kindled because he went; and the angel of Yahweh placed himself in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him.
(Num 22:23) The donkey saw the angel of Yahweh standing in the way, with his sword drawn in his hand; and the donkey turned aside out of the way, and went into the field. Balaam struck the donkey, to turn her into the way.
(Num 22:24) Then the angel of Yahweh stood in a narrow path between the vineyards, a wall being on this side, and a wall on that side.
(Num 22:25) The donkey saw the angel of Yahweh, and she thrust herself to the wall, and crushed Balaam’s foot against the wall; and he struck her again.
(Num 22:26) The angel of Yahweh went further, and stood in a narrow place, where there was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left.
(Num 22:27) The donkey saw the angel of Yahweh, and she lay down under Balaam; and Balaam’s anger was kindled, and he struck the donkey with his staff.
(Num 22:28) Yahweh opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?
(Num 22:29) Balaam said to the donkey, Because you have mocked me, I wish there were a sword in my hand, for now I would have killed you.
(Num 22:30) The donkey said to Balaam, Am I not your donkey, on which you have ridden all your life long to this day? Was I ever in the habit of doing so to you? He said, No.
(Num 22:31) Then Yahweh opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of Yahweh standing in the way, with his sword drawn in his hand; and he bowed his head, and fell on his face.
(Num 22:32) The angel of Yahweh said to him, Why have you struck your donkey these three times? Behold, I have come forth as an adversary, because your way is perverse before me:
(Num 22:33) and the donkey saw me, and turned aside before me these three times. Unless she had turned aside from me, surely now I would have killed you, and saved her alive.
(Num 22:34) Balaam said to the angel of Yahweh, I have sinned; for I didn’t know that you stood in the way against me. Now therefore, if it displeases you, I will go back again.
(Num 22:35) The angel of Yahweh said to Balaam, Go with the men; but only the word that I shall speak to you, that you shall speak. So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.
(Num 22:36) When Balak heard that Balaam had come, he went out to meet him to the City of Moab, which is on the border of the Arnon, which is in the utmost part of the border.
(Num 22:37) Balak said to Balaam, Didn’t I earnestly send to you to call you? Why didn’t you come to me? Am I not able indeed to promote you to honour?
(Num 22:38) Balaam said to Balak, Behold, I have come to you. Have I now any power at all to speak anything? The word that God puts in my mouth, that shall I speak.
(Num 22:39) Balaam went with Balak, and they came to Kiriath Huzoth.
(Num 22:40) Balak sacrificed cattle and sheep, and sent to Balaam, and to the princes who were with him.
(Num 22:41) It happened in the morning, that Balak took Balaam, and brought him up into the high places of Baal; and he saw from there the utmost part of the people.


(Psa 104:4) He makes His Angels winds; His servants flames of fire.

This game of chess you are playing is already over and landed in checkmate I'm afraid Fred, as I also knew your next couple of moves.
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The Scripture specifies exactly who was speaking to Moses in Exodus ch3

Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb.

v2 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

v3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

v4 And when YHWH saw that he turned aside to see, ELOHIM called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses.
And he said, Here am I.

Quantified as TWO = #1 And when YHWH saw - transitions to - #2 ELOHIM called unto him out of the midst of the bush

YHWH now transitions to ELOHIM as HE begins His Speaking:

And when YHWH saw that he turned aside to see, ELOHIM called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses.
And he said, Here am I.

v5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

Quantified as THREE

v6 Moreover he said, I am the ELOHE(Plural) of thy father,
the ELOHE of Abraham,
the ELOHE of Isaac,
the ELOHE of Jacob.
And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon ELOHE.

Which ELOHE was Moses afraid to look upon???
 
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As in row 21: Yahshua became the Lord of all lords of the earth as he also became King of all Kings. He possesses supreme power of rulership over all human powers in authority.

(Rev 17:14) These shall war against the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and they that are with him, called and chosen and faithful, these also shall overcome.
(Rev 19:16) And he has on his garment and on his thigh a name written: King of kings and Lord of lords.

Yahshua as a human being with one nature of a son of man, was dependent on his Father God to resurrect him and save him from death with his spirit in hades.

(Mat 12:40) For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
(Mat 16:21) From that time Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised

(Joh 2:24) But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he understood mankind,
(Joh 2:25) and because he did not need any testimony concerning himself from any human being. For he understood what was in man.

(Rom 6:9) " Knowing that Christ, being raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no more has dominion over him. "
(Rom 6:10) " For the death that he died, he died to sin once, but the life that he lives, he lives to God. "

(Heb 2:14) Since then the children are sharers in flesh and blood, he also himself in like manner partook of the same nature; so that through his death he might bring to nothing him that had the power of death, that is, the Devil;
(Heb 2:15) and might deliver all those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
(Heb 2:16) For truly not to angels does he take hold in association; but he took hold of the seed of Abraham.
(Heb 2:17) Therefore in all things he had to be made like his brothers, so that he might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
(Heb 2:18) For because he himself suffered when tempted, he is able to succour those who are being tempted.

(Heb 5:7) Who in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears to Him that was able to save him from death, and was heard for his Godly fear;

(Psa 89:26) He will call to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, and the rock of my salvation!’.

(Psa 91:14) Because he has set His love on Me, therefore I will deliver him. I will set him on high, because he has known My name.
(Psa 91:15) He will call on Me and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honour him.
(Psa 91:16) I will satisfy him with long life, and show him My salvation.
 
APAK said:
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As in row 21: Yahshua became the Lord of all lords of the earth as he also became King of all Kings. He possesses supreme power of rulership over all human powers in authority.

(Rev 17:14) These shall war against the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and they that are with him, called and chosen and faithful, these also shall overcome.
(Rev 19:16) And he has on his garment and on his thigh a name written: King of kings and Lord of lords.

Yahshua as a human being with one nature of a son of man, was dependent on his Father God to resurrect him and save him from death with his spirit in hades.

(Mat 12:40) For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
(Mat 16:21) From that time Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised

(Joh 2:24) But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he understood mankind,
(Joh 2:25) and because he did not need any testimony concerning himself from any human being. For he understood what was in man.

(Rom 6:9) " Knowing that Christ, being raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no more has dominion over him. "
(Rom 6:10) " For the death that he died, he died to sin once, but the life that he lives, he lives to God. "

(Heb 2:14) Since then the children are sharers in flesh and blood, he also himself in like manner partook of the same nature; so that through his death he might bring to nothing him that had the power of death, that is, the Devil;
(Heb 2:15) and might deliver all those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
(Heb 2:16) For truly not to angels does he take hold in association; but he took hold of the seed of Abraham.
(Heb 2:17) Therefore in all things he had to be made like his brothers, so that he might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
(Heb 2:18) For because he himself suffered when tempted, he is able to succour those who are being tempted.

(Heb 5:7) Who in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears to Him that was able to save him from death, and was heard for his Godly fear;

(Psa 89:26) He will call to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, and the rock of my salvation!’.

(Psa 91:14) Because he has set His love on Me, therefore I will deliver him. I will set him on high, because he has known My name.
(Psa 91:15) He will call on Me and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honour him.
(Psa 91:16) I will satisfy him with long life, and show him My salvation.
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You are very close and even accurate when speaking of the 'son of man'.

Now search the Truth of the Eternal Elohim Word that was with God in the Beginning and was God.

A GOOD Place to start is John chapter 1 along with this:

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7but [c]made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
 
DavidTree said:
You are very close and even accurate when speaking of the 'son of man'.

Now search the Truth of the Eternal Elohim Word that was with God in the Beginning and was God.

A GOOD Place to start is John chapter 1 along with this:

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7but [c]made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
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What's your point David?
 
APAK said:
He possesses supreme power of rulership over all human powers in authority.
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Not only that. He possesses supreme power of rulership in the universe.

Deuteronomy 10:17
For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.
Revelation 17:14
These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.

1. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT): In His divine equality He is Lord of lords (Rev. 19:16) (5:273, onoma, Bietenhard).
2. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: kyrios kuriōn i.e. Supreme Lord...Revelation 19:16 (...of God, Deuteronomy 10:17) (kyrios, page 366)

Notice that the "Supreme Lord" is also applied equally unto God in Deuteronomy 10:17.

Some may assert that king of kings not only applies to the Lord Jesus, but also to Artaxerxes (Ezra 7:12) and Nebuchadnezzar (Daniel 2:37). This doesn't mean they are equal in authority as the Lord Jesus.
Notice though that the Bible never uses 'king of kings' of anyone when Christ was on the earth (and afterwards). Furthermore, when it was used of others it was at different periods of time. Thus, it belonged only to the earthly realm and in a limited way at that. They were not king of all other kings in that they ruled all other kings of the entire earth. However, Christ's rulership is universal.

Mounce's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words: John envisions him as the ruler over all the kings of the earth- “King of kings and Lord of lords” (Rev. 17:14; 19:15-16). The Roman emperor was called “king of kings” because he presided over the vassal kings of the empire, but how puny and conceited in light of the absolute sovereignty of the Lamb, the true Lord of lords (Lord, page 423).

Finally, Paul knew that the Lord of lords is to be thanked in worship (Psalm 136:3). Knowing that Jesus is the Lord of lords Paul thanked Him in worship (1 Timothy 1:12).
 
DavidTree said:
The Scripture specifies exactly who was speaking to Moses in Exodus ch3

Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb.

v2 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

v3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

v4 And when YHWH saw that he turned aside to see, ELOHIM called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses.
And he said, Here am I.

Quantified as TWO = #1 And when YHWH saw - transitions to - #2 ELOHIM called unto him out of the midst of the bush

YHWH now transitions to ELOHIM as HE begins His Speaking:

And when YHWH saw that he turned aside to see, ELOHIM called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses.
And he said, Here am I.

v5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

Quantified as THREE

v6 Moreover he said, I am the ELOHE(Plural) of thy father,
the ELOHE of Abraham,
the ELOHE of Isaac,
the ELOHE of Jacob.
And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon ELOHE.

Which ELOHE was Moses afraid to look upon???
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The fact that Jesus went on record several times saying no man has seen the Father or heard His voice disproves unitarianism. :)

Who did they see and hear if it was not the Father in the O.T.

Chess game, set and match- its over before they make their first move- Check and Mate :)
 
civic said:
The fact that Jesus went on record several times saying no man has seen the Father or heard His voice disproves unitarianism. :)

Who did they see and hear if it was not the Father in the O.T.

Chess game, set and match- its over before they make their first move- Check and Mate :)
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The evidence is throughout the scriptures.

Psalm 40:7
Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Hebrews 10:5-7
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
 
APAK said:
I was thinking one as you might bite on these verses. It means that Yahshua was a human being with a human nature and therefore knows how men in general think and behave. Just like I knew you might respond to my post. Sorry, no mind-melding or reading or godlike powers here I'm afraid.
Click to expand...
1 Samuel 16:7 = Special thanks to @Fred
But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or height, for I have rejected him; the LORD does not see as man does. For man sees the outward appearance, but the LORD sees the heart.”

Jeremiah 17:10
“The heart is deceitful above all things,
And [d]desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
I, the Lord, search the heart,
I test the [e]mind,
Even to give every man according to his ways,
According to the fruit of his doings.

John 2:24-25
Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name when they saw the signs which He did.
But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men,
and had for He knew what was in man

Luke 9:47
Then a dispute arose among them as to which of them would be greatest.
And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a little child and set him by Him, and said to them,
“Whoever receives this little child in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me. For he who is least among you all will be great.”

Isaiah 66:18
“For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory."

Matthew 24:30
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

Zechariah 14:1-5
Behold, a day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided in your presence. For I will gather all the nations for battle against Jerusalem, and the city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women ravished. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.

Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south. You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.

@APAK WHO WILL COME???
 
Fred said:
Not even close to fully knowing the hearts of all people.
See 1 Samuel 16:7.
Click to expand...
Fred, this OT verse is about YHWH not his Son. You have the wrong person, yet again. Apparently you do not think or believe that his Father YHWH was present within his Son since birth. This is a big deal. This is how his Son knew a great deal than any ordinary man. And this is how he learned to do miracles later...

(1Sa 16:7) But Yahweh said to Samuel, Don’t look at his appearance or height, because I have rejected him. I do not look at the things man looks at; man looks at the outward appearance but Yahweh looks at the heart.

Christ could not see the hearts of people independently. He had to rely on the Spirit of his Father to discern...to read the heart...as any genuine believer today can also at least discern in the same way on a general scale via the Spirit of God. I can!

Back to the scripture verses at hand again....

Many said they believed that Yahshua was the Messiah or at least in the service of God by seeing the miracles he performed. Jesus though did not have confidence or trust in their words and especially their inward intentions. See also John 3:2 for a similar comparison. Human words sometimes do not match their heart condition and intentions.

Trinitarians need verses 24 and 25 to make Jesus be God, so they ‘make hay’ out of the Greek transliterated word ‘pas’ or ‘all’ in English, in verse 24 and then in verse 25, and why he said he did not need a witness of another person because he already knew every person’s heart.

They believe they have found two more verses to add to their collection, propping up their triune god and idol.

The word ‘all’ Greek 'pas' in verse 24 means that Jesus knew of the natural sinful human nature in ‘all’ of us, without the Spirit of God. He never meant that he knew every human being individually, and what was in each person’s heart. Jesus knew that the heart’s intentions were evil of all unrepentant men, that he suspected here, even without the Father’s presence. I do as well.

And thus, in verse 25 Jesus follows up and inferred that he did not need another person’s witness to judge another person, as they both had the same sinful nature and neither of them could be trusted to be a fair witness, even without the knowledge of the Spirit of YHWH.

Again, Jesus did not know what was actually is in every man’s heart, he knew what was in man. In man, meaning in all men in general. Not in every different person as YHWH knows each person, as Trinitarians want to believe that Jesus also knows all and therefore is YHWH.

And further, if his Father wanted to let his Son know of a particular person, within their heart as well, he would provide this information to him. And he did that many times.

Even prophets of the OT were given information about a particular person or people via the Spirit of God; as if they were also mind-readers, and they were not.

The story here is that YHWH is not his Son and as such YHWH knows the hearts of every, i mean every human heart individually, and the other, son of man does not. Today, with the Son in power of the Spirit of his Father, he can now know the hearts of individual men. This was not possible before he ascended to heaven.

The Bible or scripture must be read in context, local audience in mind, with a theme, with a progressive plan in mind. Cannot just substitute YHWH for his Son because YHWH speaks within his Son or it seems that the Son is acting alone - he is never alone from his Father. This is the same gross and constant err Trinitarians and Binitarians keep making, without a blink of their eye lids..
 
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