Introducing the Son of (his) Father God - John 1:18, 20:17b

[APAK]

Paul quotes several OT texts about YHWH and applies them in reference to Jesus. Thus, proving Jesus is YHWH. In fact, Paul did so by contrasting the worship of idols and the worship of YHWH. This connects to what the "one YHWH" of Deuteronomy 6:4 is ONLY to receive.

You have a very poor understanding who Jesus is.


By the way, what is really ridiculous is your refusal to even answer the question I asked you concerning whether or not the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-lord-jesus-affirmed-he-is-god-by-teaching-he-is-the-proper-recipient-of-prayer.954/page-2#post-29605

You ran away and hid and continue to do so because your false jesus falls apart.

You said "Paul quotes several OT texts about YHWH and applies them in reference to Jesus." stop the fibbing already. Paul does no such thing, and you know it!

I have no more words to share with you for this post. You keep repeating the same illogical and false claims, over and over again. enjoy.

 

[APAK]

Just as Jesus is "my Lord" so too is He "my God."

Thomas answered and said unto Him (Jesus).

For your education:
1. BDAG (3rd Edition): Concerning John 20:28 states that theos "certainly refers to Christ" (theos, page 450).
2. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT): the Risen Lord discloses Himself to Thomas, and the astonished disciple exclaims: ho kurios mou kai ho theos mou (Jn. 20:28). In Jn. 1:1 we have Christology: He is God in Himself. Here we have the revelation of Christ: He is God for believers (3:105-106, theos, Stauffer).
3. A Greek and English Lexicon of the New Testament: Of the Logos, who is declared to be ho theos, e.g. John 1:1...also in the exclamation of Thomas, John 20:28. - So Christ is called ho theos (theos, page 334).
4. New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (NIDNTT): Jn. 20:28 contains the unique affirmation of Thomas addressing the Risen Christ as God: "My Lord and my God [ho kyrios mou kai ho theos mou]" (2:81, God, J. Schneider).

as you said...

"Just as Jesus is "my Lord" so too is He "my God."

This is no proof or explanation at all, it is only your rash opinion and has become commonplace now Fred!

 

[Fred]

You said "Paul quotes several OT texts about YHWH and applies them in reference to Jesus." stop the fibbing already. Paul does no such thing, and you know it!

Romans 10:13 (cf. Joel 3:5 LXX - 2:32 in our English version)
1 Corinthians 10:26 (cf. Psalm 24:1)

There are several others, but this is enough to refute your absurd assertion for now.

I have no more words to share with you for this post.

The last gasps of your exhausted and defeated mind.

Thanks for making this easy for me.

 

[Fred]

as you said...

"Just as Jesus is "my Lord" so too is He "my God."

This is no proof or explanation at all, it is only your rash opinion and has become commonplace now Fred!

I cite 4 sources and yet it is only my rash opinion.

What an Ichabod!

See the bottom of post 38.
Then go back to hiding again.

 

[APAK]

was = was [already pre-existent]. Creation is not mentioned till Joh_1:3. "The Word had no beginning". See Joh_1:3; Joh_17:5. 1Jn_1:1. Eph_1:4. Pro_8:23. Psa_90:2. Compare Joh_8:58. Not the same "was "as in Joh_1:14.

How are you going to get around this?

How do I get around it. I do not need to 'get around it' Johann. You presume and assume 'word 'not only must be capitalized it also must mean the Son of God without any qualification.

And two, your support scripture for the 'word' is no support at all. You made it up yourself. Just go and look at each scripture again and see if it really speaks to the 'word' or logos of God and somehow this all means that Jesus pre-existed before his birth.

You know just by slapping down lists of scripture and pointing them to what you have created as you working statement/expression of argument, do not mean they apply or are even relevant. And they are both in this case. So what does that make you I wonder?

And just to split hairs for a moment, where does it say in scripture, as you wrote "The Word had no beginning".? Regardless of what I believe in this statement?

No, you have not made your case at all that Jesus pre-existed before is human birth....try again if you want...it is a fools errand

 

[Fred]

And just to split hairs for a moment, where does it say in scripture, as you wrote "The Word had no beginning".? Regardless of what I believe in this statement?

Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains: arche: 'in the beginning was the Word' or 'before the world was created, the Word (already) existed' or 'at a time in the past when there was nothing...' Jn. 1.1 (67.65, arche, page 637, J. P. Louw and Eugene Nida).

New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (NIDNTT): “In the beginning” - not “at the beginning” of Creation (Gen. 1:1), but in the “time before time” of divine eternity - was the Word (pre-existence of the Word, Jn. 1:1), the Word was with God (personal reference, Jn. 1:2), indeed, “the Word was God” (essential divinity of the Word, Jn. 1:1) (3:1115, Word, B. Klappert).

 

[Fred]

You presume and assume 'word 'not only must be capitalized it also must mean the Son of God without any qualification.

BDAG (3rd Edition): John 1:1abc, 14...It is the distinctive teaching of the Fourth Gospel that this divine 'Word' took on human form in a historical person, that is, Jesus (logos, page 601).

 

[APAK]

Romans 10:13 (cf. Joel 3:5 LXX - 2:32 in our English version)
1 Corinthians 10:26 (cf. Psalm 24:1)

There are several others, but this is enough to refute your absurd assertion for now.




The last gasps of your exhausted and defeated mind.

Thanks for making this easy for me.

Look let me just review one of your support scriptures..no time and effort for the others

(Rom 10:13) For whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

So what do you see here that make Jesus God Fred?

I cannot believe you cannot understand this verse. It is clear....We are saved when we call upon the Lord, this is the Son of God, the Christ of course. And not the Father who is God.

for salvation is to become faith in Christ’s satisfaction of the law, and so be “justified through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.” HIs Father God designed it this way and no other way.

So now you will make some distortions and perturbations about this statement to steer back to mean Jesus is God....unbelievable!

The 'Lord' written here in this Romans scripture verse is not both the Son and his Father God Fred.

 

[Fred]

(Rom 10:13) For whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

So what do you see here that make Jesus God Fred?

1. He is the proper recipient of prayer - you dodged my question to you about this several times.
2. Paul applies YHWH from the Book of Joel in reference to Jesus being the "Lord" in Romans 10:13.

 

[APAK]

Update:






God created him by the seed of David
(Mat 1:1) The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

(Rom 1:3) concerning His Son, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh

(Act 13:32) We bring you good news of the promise made to the fathers,

(Act 13:33b) ... As also it is written in the second Psalm: You are My Son, this day have I begotten you.

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He said that his Father God created the first human beings

(Mar 10:6) But from the beginning of the creation: Male and female made He them.

(Gen 5:2) He created them male and female, and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

(Gen 1:27) God created man in His own image. In God’s image He created him; male and female He created them.

(Gen 2:20) The man gave names to all livestock, and to the birds of the sky, and to every animal of the field; but for man there was not found a helper suitable for him.

(Gen 2:21) Yahweh God caused a deep sleep to fall on the man, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place.

(Gen 2:22) He made the rib, which Yahweh God had taken from the man, into a woman, and brought her to the man.

(Gen 2:23) The man said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh! She will be called ‘woman’, because she was taken out of Man.


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He became/ appointed the King of all kings on the earth

(Psa 72:11) Yes, all kings shall fall down before him, all nations shall serve him.

(Psa 89:27) I will also appoint him My firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth.

(1Ti 6:15) In due time He shall reveal him, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords,

(Rev 19:16) And he has on his garment and on his thigh a name written: King of kings and Lord of lords.


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[Aeliana]

Faith in the deity of Christ is necessary to being a Christian. It is an essential part of the New Testament gospel of Christ.

The deity of Christ is drawn from the manifold witness of the New Testament. As the Logos Incarnate, Christ is revealed as being not only preexistent to creation, but eternal. He is said to be in the beginning with God and also that He is God John 1:1-3

Jesus is God, always has been always will be.

 

[Fred]

He said that his Father God created the first human beings

(Mar 10:6) But from the beginning of the creation: Male and female made He them.

The above is wrong in the way you misunderstand it.
Jesus doesn't exclude Himself from being the Creator. That is your assumption. He can and does apply what is said about "God" in reference to Himself.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/those-who-deny-the-lord-jesus-is-god-yhwh-are-not-saved-2-corinthians-11-4.660/page-5#post-17731

So too with Luke 4:8.
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-trinity-made-easy.87/page-4#post-3446

 

[APAK]

Faith in the deity of Christ is necessary to being a Christian. It is an essential part of the New Testament gospel of Christ.

The deity of Christ is drawn from the manifold witness of the New Testament. As the Logos Incarnate, Christ is revealed as being not only preexistent to creation, but eternal. He is said to be in the beginning with God and also that He is God John 1:1-3

Jesus is God, always has been always will be.

As you said: "As the Logos Incarnate, Christ is revealed as being not only preexistent to creation, but eternal. He is said to be in the beginning with God and also that He is God John 1:1-3 "

This is the part of your post that is not scriptural, dramatically presumed, part of a pagan creed and 4th century doctrine, cryptic, unexplained and parroted by so many people as yourself, Aeliana.

He is said to be none of these things you wrote if you just relied on scripture and the Spirit of God to understand who is your lord and savior.

 

[APAK]

The above is wrong in the way you misunderstand it.
Jesus doesn't exclude Himself from being the Creator. That is your assumption. He can and does apply what is said about "God" in reference to Himself.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/those-who-deny-the-lord-jesus-is-god-yhwh-are-not-saved-2-corinthians-11-4.660/page-5#post-17731

So too with Luke 4:8.
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-trinity-made-easy.87/page-4#post-3446

I did not assume anything Fred. I just read what Jesus said without any bias as you have much more at stake in keeping your Triune God alive, anywhere in scripture it/he/other seems vulnerable and is being attacked.

No, Jesus words here are direct and clear. HIs Father who is his and my God created Adam and Eve. Jesus would be created much later as the 2ND ADAM.

I vote for what Jesus said here, and not what your Triune God wants you to believe in. And this is not what the Son of God wants you to believe in either..

 

[Fred]

He became/ appointed the King of all kings on the earth

(1Ti 6:15) In due time He shall reveal him, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords,

Notice how another person that denies the Lord Jesus is God (just like you) seems not to agree that 1 Timothy 6:15 refers to Jesus.

Here is the quote by tigger2:
"A number of respected trinitarian scholars have understood 1 Tim. 6:15, 16 as applying to the Father. To insist otherwise is purely wishful thinking."

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/johns-understanding-of-who-jesus-is.696/#post-28068

Those who deny the Lord Jesus is God can't even distinguish their creator and creature-jesus among themselves.

 

[Fred]

I did not assume anything Fred. I just read what Jesus said without any bias as you have much more at stake in keeping your Triune God alive, anywhere in scripture it/he/other seems vulnerable and is being attacked.

No, Jesus words here are direct and clear. HIs Father who is his and my God created Adam and Eve. Jesus would be created much later as the 2ND ADAM.

I vote for what Jesus said here, and not what your Triune God wants you to believe in. And this is not what the Son of God wants you to believe in either..

Jesus didn't say "Father". That is your misguided assumption. The text doesn't say that.

I too vote for what Jesus said, and not what He didn't say (your position).

 

[Fred]

He said that his Father God created the first human beings

(Gen 1:27) God created man in His own image. In God’s image He created him; male and female He created them.

You left out the "Us" and the "Our" from Genesis 1:26.

 

[e v e]

Scripture clearly describes that the Son of the Father God as a created human being who was raised to glory into heaven by his Father, who is his God and ours.

This thread is created to not only show and reveal the Son of God, to also provide a self-help Bible Study of him, his person his works and nature in relationship to us and his Father.

I will maintain a running summary of the scripture used in this thread in tabular form. as a list

No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made Him known.
I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God. (NEV)

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Blessings to all, whether one embarks of this trek of study or not...

APAK

he never was but a human being in the sense of the current earth
or its type of flesh body....

His son in eden (God's creation in the other reality) versus here where we came to be because of adam are So entirely different.

 

[Aeliana]

As you said: "As the Logos Incarnate, Christ is revealed as being not only preexistent to creation, but eternal. He is said to be in the beginning with God and also that He is God John 1:1-3 "

This is the part of your post that is not scriptural, dramatically presumed, part of a pagan creed and 4th century doctrine, cryptic, unexplained and parroted by so many people as yourself, Aeliana.

He is said to be none of these things you wrote if you just relied on scripture and the Spirit of God to understand who is your lord and savior.

My understanding of scripture is just fine so I don't really need your opinion of it. I also know who Jesus is. So I reject Your comment.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Hebrews 1:10
And,
You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.

Which confirms the "us" refers to more than one Person.
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.


This is perhaps why concerning Hebrews 1:10 (and 2:7) the following is affirmed:
BDAG (3rd Edition): κύριος is also used in ref. to Jesus...Hb 1:10 (cp. Ps 101:26) (kyrios)
BDAG (3rd Edition): The hand of deity means divine power...
α. As Creator...Hebrews 1:10; 2:7 (cheir, page 1082)

= Jesus is the Creator.

Regarding Hebrews 1:10, one just has to read a few verses previous and it spells it out quite clearly.

IN many ways, and many forms, God anciently conversed with our fathers, by the prophets: but in these last days he hath spoken with us by his Son; whom he constituted the heir of every thing, and by whom he made the worlds;
Hebrews 1:1-2