The Virgin Birth

I do not doubt this brother.. I can sadly believe this

but I have not heard anyone in this thread preach this..
Its an early church fact which the Apostles were combating in the church.

Based on the internal evidence of 1 and 2 John, a problem had arisen within the church, possibly throughout Asia Minor. We know from church history that near the end of the first century, and in the early second century, proto-Gnosticism, specifically Docetism, arose within the church (Bruce, 16?17; Burdick, 61?63; Williamson, 50). In later years this developed into a theological system known as Gnosticism. Its teachings blended Greek dualism with Eastern mysticism. It adopted the dualistic view that only the nonmaterial, or ?spirit,? was good while anything material was evil. Along with this came Eastern mysticism?s focus on secret knowledge reserved only for the chosen few. Though present in seminal form in the late first century, it blossomed into full expression in the middle and latter second century (Burdick, 54?60). By the middle of the second century its adherents were producing their own gospels and epistles, of which the Gospel of Thomas and Gospel of Judas are examples.

John appears to have anticipated Gnosticism?s development and threat to the health of the church and wrote to counteract its influence. Based on the Greek dualistic concept that matter is evil and spirit is good, Gnosticism concluded that for God to be truly good, He had to be pure spirit and could not have created a material universe. Therefore, a lesser god, an emanation from the true God, must have created it. The God of the Old Testament was one of these emanations that are called demiurges, and so was a lesser god than the ultimate God.

This form of dualism influenced their view of Jesus. Recognizing His deity, they concluded that Jesus could not have had a physical body. Corporeality would require God to come in contact with the ?evil? material world. This teaching was called Docetism (from dokeo, ?seem? or ?have the appearance?) and claimed that Jesus only appeared to have a physical body, but in reality was a spirit and so did not suffer and die on the cross. He only appeared to have done so.

A modification of the Docetic view of Jesus was promoted by a false teacher in Ephesus named Cerinthus. His false doctrine, known as Cerinthianism, was an early form of adoptionism, and taught that Jesus was a human upon whom the ?Christ spirit? descended at His baptism. It was this spirit of Christ that then empowered Jesus in His ministry. Then, just before Jesus? crucifixion, the Christ spirit departed from the man Jesus, who subsequently died on the cross. So, while Jesus died, the ?Christ? neither suffered nor died on the cross, but only appeared to have died.

Such phrases as what our hands handled (1:1), every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh (4:2), and He who came by water and blood (5:6) may imply that such a heresy as proto-Gnosticism is being addressed. Each of these references to Jesus uses incarnational language that requires corporeality?a physical existence, and so might indicate an early expression of Gnosticism. These statements served as John?s way of affirming the humanity of Jesus, whose deity John had clearly demonstrated in his Gospel. ?The issue this epistle addresses is not that the heretics believed Jesus to be someone other than the Christ (and believed in Jesus anyway), but rather that they believed the Christ to be someone other than Jesus? (Akin, 54).https://blog.lexhampress.com/2015/06/04/201563johns-response-to-proto-gnosticism-in-his-first-epistle/

hope this helps !!!
 
The Bible teaches Jesus was formed in the womb of Mary.

“And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be His servant, to bring Jacob again to Him” (Isaiah 49:5).

Seven hundred years before it happened, Jesus was prophetically spoken of as One who would be formed in a “womb.” Of course, as divine Son, He had existed from all eternity (John 1:1), but it was not until an appointed time in history that He started as fully human—in His mother’s womb (Galatians 4:4). The Lord Jesus Christ, the author of all life, sanctified human life in a mother’s womb by inhabiting one Himself for nine months. The angel said to Mary, “The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God” (Luke 1:35).
DAYS OF PRAISE
 
Or Jesus purity?

she would not lose her purity if Joseph as her husband and her created a human body
First of all.... there is so little known about Joseph at all and the suggestion that he was a virgin would be greatly in doubt.

Often has the suggestion that he had other children... and he was not necessarily as young as she.

Nothing from God, and certainly not God could enter the body of a less then pure woman or be placed there.

Nothing from God certainly could enter even a pure woman if a man had ummmmmmmmmm ????????avi_headscratch.gif gotten there first.


This was perfection from the outset and sure has gone a long way to separate the wheat from the tares.

This was God's plan from the outset when he decided this was going to be done... I am talking about the earth, galaxies, universes, and all that the Big Bang people toss out there... right down to the creation of Adam... and his forwarding bloodline that
went right through Adam and onward to Jesus.

Some of you will think I am daft. Others will think I am being too flip. but I mean no disrespect and trust the Father knows this when I say I cannot count th number of times I have envisioned Him sitting up in heaven with His drawing board and blue prints
outlining His plans and then making models with his giant erector set, and Lincoln logs and silly putty, play dough and modeling clay.

Everything in His plan is perfectly executed as He intends

One Big Beautiful Plan. r

And why anyone would want to minimize His perfection... even with all the things we have to encounter... with the suggestion of
a normal mom/dad idea ...... hmmmmm. well NO
 
The Bible teaches Jesus was formed in the womb of Mary.

“And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be His servant, to bring Jacob again to Him” (Isaiah 49:5).

Seven hundred years before it happened, Jesus was prophetically spoken of as One who would be formed in a “womb.” Of course, as divine Son, He had existed from all eternity (John 1:1), but it was not until an appointed time in history that He started as fully human—in His mother’s womb (Galatians 4:4). The Lord Jesus Christ, the author of all life, sanctified human life in a mother’s womb by inhabiting one Himself for nine months. The angel said to Mary, “The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God” (Luke 1:35).
DAYS OF PRAISE

The "Doctrine of the Eternal Son" is paradoxical to say the least......

I believe Adam was literally formed from dust in the likeness of the bodily form of The Son. Christ, The Eternal manifestation of Divinity in bodily form.
 
First of all.... there is so little known about Joseph at all and the suggestion that he was a virgin would be greatly in doubt.

Often has the suggestion that he had other children... and he was not necessarily as young as she.

Nothing from God, and certainly not God could enter the body of a less then pure woman or be placed there.

Nothing from God certainly could enter even a pure woman if a man had ummmmmmmmmm ????????View attachment 2020 gotten there first.


This was perfection from the outset and sure has gone a long way to separate the wheat from the tares.

This was God's plan from the outset when he decided this was going to be done... I am talking about the earth, galaxies, universes, and all that the Big Bang people toss out there... right down to the creation of Adam... and his forwarding bloodline that
went right through Adam and onward to Jesus.

Some of you will think I am daft. Others will think I am being too flip. but I mean no disrespect and trust the Father knows this when I say I cannot count th number of times I have envisioned Him sitting up in heaven with His drawing board and blue prints
outlining His plans and then making models with his giant erector set, and Lincoln logs and silly putty, play dough and modeling clay.

Everything in His plan is perfectly executed as He intends

One Big Beautiful Plan. r

And why anyone would want to minimize His perfection... even with all the things we have to encounter... with the suggestion of
a normal mom/dad idea ...... hmmmmm. well NO
this sounds catholic?

Mary was betrothed to Joseph. this was done by both parents.

also. We know that Joseph never "knew" Mary until after Jesus was born. and they had other kids.

I see no proof that they were older than him..

could it be that the nature of sin, or the father of the son is the reason?
 
yes. but why did she have to be a virgin? (besides fulfilling prophecy)

did it affect her or her son? what was the purpose?
I simply am too old for this :cry:

Did it affect her? Well, not for me it didn't but a major religion world wide from the first century AD has been built because of it.

Did it affect Jesus? Do you not remember John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”

Do you know why?
 
First of all.... there is so little known about Joseph at all and the suggestion that he was a virgin would be greatly in doubt.

Often has the suggestion that he had other children... and he was not necessarily as young as she.

Nothing from God, and certainly not God could enter the body of a less then pure woman or be placed there.

Nothing from God certainly could enter even a pure woman if a man had ummmmmmmmmm ????????View attachment 2020 gotten there first.


This was perfection from the outset and sure has gone a long way to separate the wheat from the tares.

This was God's plan from the outset when he decided this was going to be done... I am talking about the earth, galaxies, universes, and all that the Big Bang people toss out there... right down to the creation of Adam... and his forwarding bloodline that
went right through Adam and onward to Jesus.

Some of you will think I am daft. Others will think I am being too flip. but I mean no disrespect and trust the Father knows this when I say I cannot count th number of times I have envisioned Him sitting up in heaven with His drawing board and blue prints
outlining His plans and then making models with his giant erector set, and Lincoln logs and silly putty, play dough and modeling clay.

Everything in His plan is perfectly executed as He intends

One Big Beautiful Plan. r

And why anyone would want to minimize His perfection... even with all the things we have to encounter... with the suggestion of
a normal mom/dad idea ...... hmmmmm. well NO

God's Sovereignty isn't "impugned" by thoughts of rebellion against God.

Many things have happened that God "never intended". God regrets....
 
I simply am too old for this :cry:

Did it affect her? Well, not for me it didn't but a major religion world wide from the first century AD has been built because of it.

Did it affect Jesus? Do you not remember John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”

Do you know why?

Luk 2:23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)
 
Every man except adam was/is created in the womb. That is where human life begins. Not at birth. This is just a scientific fact which is why we call (as does the bible ) abortion - murder.
It sure is my friend . even the babe known as JOHN leaped in its mamas womb .
Tell that to the factories that butcher the unborn . Now to the trenches my friend .
To the trenches . its all out war for the souls of men .
 
I simply am too old for this :cry:

Did it affect her? Well, not for me it didn't but a major religion world wide from the first century AD has been built because of it.

Did it affect Jesus? Do you not remember John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”

Do you know why?
I think you may be You missing my point

I was born in Adam

Jesus was not

that's why he was not born of the father.

Adam was born without sin and without a nature to sin

Jesus was born the exact same way
 
Its a historical fact of Gnosticism which infiltrated the early Church and the Apostles hve written against their heresies. 1 and 2 John calls their teaching the very spirit of antichrist.
To deny that one must beleive JESUS is the CHRIST the SON of GOD is
of anti christ .
Yet many sure seem to follow this interfaith finding common ground .
Now WHY is that . are we so trusing and hoping in men . YA darn right MANY are .
THEY will die in their sins . Flee all , any kind of hope in men . I say this to us all .
And say this i do out of great love for all as i desire the death of none .
AMBER ALERT .
FLEE ALL HOPE IN ANY politics , in any man , in ya denomination and etc .
Many will die in their sin for they have taught REBELLION and went with the flow of rebellion
Again this message is typed out
of dire necessity with a dire urgency that we flee the kingdoms of men
and return to all HOPE in GOD , IN CHRIST ALONE .
 
I simply am too old for this :cry:

Did it affect her? Well, not for me it didn't but a major religion world wide from the first century AD has been built because of it.

Did it affect Jesus? Do you not remember John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”

Do you know why?
He never once said in any way stop clinging to me . He would not allow her to touch him .
Anyone ever wonder why that was .
 
I think you may be You missing my point

I was born in Adam

Jesus was not

that's why he was not born of the father.

Adam was born without sin and without a nature to sin

Jesus was born the exact same way
Is disobediance sin . now think about that for a bit .
IS disobediance to GOD sin . YOU BET it is .
Rather odd that both eve and adam SURE DID DISOBEY GOD and ate from the TREE .
Too many have sat under calvin and other men .
They simply had free will choice . Eve chose wrong and adam chose wrong when HE chose to hearken to the voice
of HIs wife rather THAN GOD . ever wonder why the second adam says
ANY WHO LOVETH MOTHER , FATHER , WIFE , etc more than ME aint worthy of ME .
 
I asked
I simply am too old for this :cry:

Did it affect her? Well, not for me it didn't but a major religion world wide from the first century AD has been built because of it.

Did it affect Jesus? Do you not remember John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”

Do you know why?

You replied
Luk 2:23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)

How does your answer answer me?

I am so happy for you that you are Holy........

I am not a male, therefore , I am not.
 
I think you may be You missing my point

I was born in Adam

Jesus was not

that's why he was not born of the father.

Adam was born without sin and without a nature to sin

Jesus was born the exact same way
Good. Perfect sense.

You were born in Adam... Are women merely created and not born for Eve came from Adams rib but she did not have the connection to God that Adam did?
 
Its an early church fact which the Apostles were combating in the church.

Based on the internal evidence of 1 and 2 John, a problem had arisen within the church, possibly throughout Asia Minor. We know from church history that near the end of the first century, and in the early second century, proto-Gnosticism, specifically Docetism, arose within the church (Bruce, 16?17; Burdick, 61?63; Williamson, 50). In later years this developed into a theological system known as Gnosticism. Its teachings blended Greek dualism with Eastern mysticism. It adopted the dualistic view that only the nonmaterial, or ?spirit,? was good while anything material was evil. Along with this came Eastern mysticism?s focus on secret knowledge reserved only for the chosen few. Though present in seminal form in the late first century, it blossomed into full expression in the middle and latter second century (Burdick, 54?60). By the middle of the second century its adherents were producing their own gospels and epistles, of which the Gospel of Thomas and Gospel of Judas are examples.

John appears to have anticipated Gnosticism?s development and threat to the health of the church and wrote to counteract its influence. Based on the Greek dualistic concept that matter is evil and spirit is good, Gnosticism concluded that for God to be truly good, He had to be pure spirit and could not have created a material universe. Therefore, a lesser god, an emanation from the true God, must have created it. The God of the Old Testament was one of these emanations that are called demiurges, and so was a lesser god than the ultimate God.

This form of dualism influenced their view of Jesus. Recognizing His deity, they concluded that Jesus could not have had a physical body. Corporeality would require God to come in contact with the ?evil? material world. This teaching was called Docetism (from dokeo, ?seem? or ?have the appearance?) and claimed that Jesus only appeared to have a physical body, but in reality was a spirit and so did not suffer and die on the cross. He only appeared to have done so.

A modification of the Docetic view of Jesus was promoted by a false teacher in Ephesus named Cerinthus. His false doctrine, known as Cerinthianism, was an early form of adoptionism, and taught that Jesus was a human upon whom the ?Christ spirit? descended at His baptism. It was this spirit of Christ that then empowered Jesus in His ministry. Then, just before Jesus? crucifixion, the Christ spirit departed from the man Jesus, who subsequently died on the cross. So, while Jesus died, the ?Christ? neither suffered nor died on the cross, but only appeared to have died.

Such phrases as what our hands handled (1:1), every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh (4:2), and He who came by water and blood (5:6) may imply that such a heresy as proto-Gnosticism is being addressed. Each of these references to Jesus uses incarnational language that requires corporeality?a physical existence, and so might indicate an early expression of Gnosticism. These statements served as John?s way of affirming the humanity of Jesus, whose deity John had clearly demonstrated in his Gospel. ?The issue this epistle addresses is not that the heretics believed Jesus to be someone other than the Christ (and believed in Jesus anyway), but rather that they believed the Christ to be someone other than Jesus? (Akin, 54).https://blog.lexhampress.com/2015/06/04/201563johns-response-to-proto-gnosticism-in-his-first-epistle/

hope this helps !!!
Civic you know i love you my friend . but not you or i were brought to the KINGDOM
to please man . Now why did i type that . cause if you see something you even think
might be error in what i type YOU say something . There was a post i noticed a like on
but there was a post i seen zero response from . NOW dont you worry about offending me . I but a flea
IF i typed something in that second post that was wrong , YOU SHOW me by the scrips my error .
I wont melt my friend . THERE is a reason i say this . IF we get on the path
where we just try and overlook things for sake of getting along , WE IN dire trouble
and this place will fall . i seen this too much and too often .
 
Personally I believe it to be far and away more accurate to say the Word became a
single-cell human organism than to say Jesus entered a single-cell organism.

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us." (John 1:14)
_
hug.gif
 
I asked
I simply am too old for this :cry:

Did it affect her? Well, not for me it didn't but a major religion world wide from the first century AD has been built because of it.

Did it affect Jesus? Do you not remember John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”

Do you know why?

You replied


How does your answer answer me?

I am so happy for you that you are Holy........

I am not a male, therefore , I am not.
You aint too old . ON those feet my friend .
Do you want to know why so many wear out and down
THEY PICK and choose the wrong fights . or even if they pick the right one
Due to the false lovey do of allowing men who preach falsehoods to remain
IT WEARS OUT the saints my friend .
DO you realize IF WE simply followed the ORIGINAL PATTERN
And men came along and preached blasphemy and thus when they did
we corected and when they heeded not WE DID THE SEPERATION
Rather than allowing them DAY N and DAY OUT to remain , well so much better had things been .
MANY will wear out and they will eventually go with the flow of the inclusive love .
ANYONE ever wonder why this sheep is like the ol engergizer bunny
and just keeps on going and going no matter what .
THE FOCUS . Many have been distracted by the cares and pleasures in this life
and have went to battle to defend mens doctrines . Plus as i wrote earlier
WHEN ;men who teach direct blasphemies are allowed to remain
ITS just strife upon strife , upon strife , till eventually folks wear out .
ME oh my we should have learned our bibles well . NOW ON those feet .
YOU aint too old . Methusulah would have handed us all bottles and diapers my friend .
WE aint TOO old . we just need our focus BACK ON GOD AND HIS CHRIST . and TO KEEP the original pattern
delivered by CHRIST and the apostels for all things . INCLUDING CORRECTION .
 
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